Wrongfully accused of cheating. Can someone at DE please help?

[-Vert]

Welp, I made the mistake of leaving my Skyrim's ENB (graphics mod) running in the background and Warframe's system automatically banned me. Skyrim's ENB does manipulate/read memory so it's very likely what got me banned. I have contacted WF Support, which they then responded and unbanned me in 3 hours which I really appreciate.The problem now is that Support believes that I actually cheated, when I never did, I have nothing to gain from cheating since I've been playing Warframe for so long, about 5k+ hours. Support told me that I would be permanently banned if something were to happen again, as if I actually cheated in the first place. I really don't want to be trapped in this spot where I can be banned at any moment for any mistake. I'm really desperate for help at this point, can someone please help? 

[BaIthazar]

Unfortunately the forums will not be able to help you.

The only way you can resolve this is through Support

[ikkabotz]

Whoops. Lesson learned, you're still going to get counted for a strike. They make on exception for you they have to make one exception for everybody and just sounds messy

Edited November 30, 2019 by ikkabotz

[0_The_F00l]

Nobody here can help you.

From the softwares perspective you carried a loaded gun onto a plane, the fact that you did it unintentionally or by accident is irrelevant. 

Just be careful next time. 

[-Krism-]

9 minutes ago, ikkabotz said:

Whoops. Lesson learned

I mean, forgetting to close an ENB mod isn't really their fault, it's not like it was intentional

[Uhkretor]

26 minutes ago, -Vert said:

Welp, I made the mistake of leaving my Skyrim's ENB (graphics mod) (...)

... wow, you sure love to have your Skyrim being rendered 2xx for every graphical "enhancement" it provides...

 

What's what supposed to be? ENB Rush + Ban Overload?

[KnightKrawlur]

Gotta love the "support" you get from game companies.

Be glad they responded to your ticket in less than two weeks.

[844448]

At best you can try submitting a ticket to support and explain politely and tell as much details as possible so they can consider

Also don't spam the support. You'll only make the support take longer to find yours and more likely ignored as spam so wait patiently or make a new account while waiting for the support to answer your ticket

(make sure both account never interact with each other or get a permanent ban)

[-Kittens-]

7 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Nobody here can help you.

From the softwares perspective you carried a loaded gun onto a plane, the fact that you did it unintentionally or by accident is irrelevant. 

Just be careful next time. 

Except their eula doesn't cover any of that and they really have zero business checking footprints of other apps; this is a lawsuit in the making, and DE would have their butts blasted hard in court if this came to trial in America.

It's absolutely none of their business what you run besides their game. None. If it's not actively hooking into WF it's literally and legally none of their business and there isn't a legal body in existence that will justify any EULA stating such. Bethesda, EA, Intel and Apple have already lost in court trying to enforce this, and DE doesn't have the caliber of lawyers to somehow win where much MUCH larger companies have fallen flat on their faces.

7 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

... wow, you sure love to have your Skyrim being rendered 2xx for every graphical "enhancement" it provides...

 

What's what supposed to be? ENB Rush + Ban Overload?

Except skyrim's basically unplayable without it. Anyone playing skyrim in the last five years has likely used an ENB, and that includes SSE.

Edited November 30, 2019 by -Kittens-

[Dreadwire]

Oh sh t i also use enb injector on my skyrim.

You can get bann from that?

Wtf

 

[SixStringSamurai]

9 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

... wow, you sure love to have your Skyrim being rendered 2xx for every graphical "enhancement" it provides...

 

What's what supposed to be? ENB Rush + Ban Overload?

I run an ENB on my Mod Organizer install of Skyrim SE with around 155 mods. You act like this is some rare thing, when even five or six years ago, you'd still be running an ENB on OldRim as well. It just had less customization options back then.

Even moreso today when modern more powerful PCs can push OldRim (or SSE, even, if you have a beast of a rig) past 60 FPS even with 2k-4k textures everywhere, which can break the engine of the game. ENBs provide a hard cap on framerates to prevent this as well.

OP's situation is totally believable. 

Also, yea, ENBs do enhance the graphical fidelity of the game. I like all the work I put into my modlist to show through when I am playing it. It looks fantastic, and beautiful. 

ENBs work off of an injector system or a wrapper system depending on which one works best for your setup. One uses an .exe file, which is probably why OP got hit with the ban as it interacts with the game executable. It doesn't pay attention to what game it's being ran for on the loading of the game, it just tries to hook in with DLLs - although there are different versions for many games, Skyrim obviously included. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by SixStringSamurai
Edited for clarity

[SixStringSamurai]

51 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

Except skyrim's basically unplayable without it. Anyone playing skyrim in the last five years has likely used an ENB, and that includes SSE.

I think you're expecting this guy to actually care about the finer points of modding Skyrim, and understanding what that entails.

He can barely construct a sentence in the first place,  nevermind trying to meme on the OP for getting banned because: "wow, you sure love to have your Skyrim being rendered 2xx for every graphical "enhancement" it provides" 

Why am I not surprised that the official forums aren't much better than the Warframe subreddit? 

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by SixStringSamurai

[TheBlackShawarma]

According to probability theory, we will all be banned sooner or later due to the autoban system. Do you still want to play Warframe? 

[0_The_F00l]

2 hours ago, -Kittens- said:

Except their eula doesn't cover any of that and they really have zero business checking footprints of other apps; this is a lawsuit in the making, and DE would have their butts blasted hard in court if this came to trial in America.

It's absolutely none of their business what you run besides their game. None. If it's not actively hooking into WF it's literally and legally none of their business and there isn't a legal body in existence that will justify any EULA stating such. Bethesda, EA, Intel and Apple have already lost in court trying to enforce this, and DE doesn't have the caliber of lawyers to somehow win where much MUCH larger companies have fallen flat on their faces.

All of that is in the EULA ,

it being lawful for your particular country is a debate for lawyers to have.

[Ryim_Drykeon]

10 hours ago, -Vert said:

Support told me that I would be permanently banned if something were to happen again, as if I actually cheated in the first place. I really don't want to be trapped in this spot where I can be banned at any moment for any mistake. I'm really desperate for help at this point, can someone please help?

I snipped and emboldened what I fee is the relevant part here.

The thing is you did get banned on a moment for a mistake. You left a program open that DE's algorithms deemed to be "cheating" software. Fortunately, Support actually did the correct thing and gave you an "on faith" chance. They did not have to do that. Let me repeat that: They did not have to do that. You violated their rules. Yes, by mistake, but there is no way to prove that one way or another. You could say that you did not cheat, but a lot of real cheaters test their programs first, without cheating, to see if it works. So DE has no choice but to take action when they encounter such programs.

Now you could stop using that program, though I doubt you wish to stop when it does enhance Skyrim. You could move either Skyrim and ENB to another PC, or move Warframe to another PC. Though this option is a bit costly. Lastly, you could simply ensure you close ENB prior to booting up Warframe. While the last may sound like a risk, I doubt you're going to forget after all this.

I would also look into the ENB. There may be a setting to prevent it from interfacing with Warframe (or other programs), or to only interface with Skyrim. I'm sure you could find some support from the Skyrim modding community to this end. Since modding isn't a thing here in Warframe, I'd say any help you get here will be minimal at best.

[FlyingDice]

1 hour ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

I would also look into the ENB. There may be a setting to prevent it from interfacing with Warframe (or other programs), or to only interface with Skyrim. I'm sure you could find some support from the Skyrim modding community to this end. Since modding isn't a thing here in Warframe, I'd say any help you get here will be minimal at best.

You're not paying attention. The ENB injector only interacts with Skyrim. DE's anticheat scans your whole system rather than just checking for manipulation of WF's files, which will not stand up in court if they were ever sued over it -- as someone else pointed out, beefier game companies have tried and lost.

 

That said, thanks for the warning, OP. I think that pretty much anyone who plays Skyrim/FONV/FO4 on PC these days is using an ENB for each, even if only a performance-enhancer one. Certainly know I do.

 

Imagine getting banned because you're using a graphical enhancer for an unrelated game that doesn't touch WF's files at all. Sadly, with the invasive nature of DE's anticheat and lackadaisical attitude of many of DE's support staff, that's reality. Good luck OP, but the forums won't help you. Support probably won't. Your best bet would probably be tweeting at Steve or Reb asking for ENB to be whitelisted going forward for all players (which really is not unreasonable, given the combination of what it does [graphical enhancement] and what it doesn't [affect WF at all]). Even that's a crapshoot though.

[SastusBulbas]

What you all should be asking is why DE feels it has to use a system that scans your whole system?

 

Is this how every game runs anti cheat software?

[Kaotyke]

2 minutes ago, SastusBulbas said:

What you all should be asking is why DE feels it has to use a system that scans your whole system?

 

Is this how every game runs anti cheat software?

R6 has that. EA's games have that. Valve has that. Bethesda has that. SOE has that. Blizzard has that...

Think of any game and check if they have any kind of anti-cheat software running. Chances are: yes.

[Leyvonne]

My advice to anyone who uses any mods, cheat engine, mouse/keyboard software that allows automated keypresses or macros, any emulators etc; make sure all of those have to be started manually and then always retart your PC before you play Warframe. Pretty much the only way to make sure you don't get banned for forgetting to turn off something or simply not knowing said softwre can get you banned.

[Berserkerkitten]

Oh the conspiracy theories! Warframe does not just randomly scan your entire system and then ban you for having some ENB sitting around somewhere. I'm using ENB in all sorts of games and I've yet to be banned on Warframe. 

What their anticheat is likely to do, however, is to scan all running processes. So, naturally, if you're running an ENB injector, not just a wrapper, then forget to terminate that before firing up Warframe, that may very well get detected and get you in trouble. While annoying and a bit unfair, that's not even close to "scanning your entire system". If you want to avoid stuff like that, make sure these programs aren't running before you fire up Warframe. Yeah, I know, easy to say when it's already too late. In a perfect world, anticheat software might be smart enough to tell whether that injector you're running is just some graphical plugin for an entirely different game, but that's not how it works, unfortunately.

[DeMonkey]

36 minutes ago, Berserkerkitten said:

Warframe does not just randomly scan your entire system and then ban you for having some ENB sitting around somewhere.

No one has said it does?

Ironically all anyone has said is much the same as you.

39 minutes ago, Berserkerkitten said:

What their anticheat is likely to do, however, is to scan all running processes ~ annoying and a bit unfair

Namely the above.

[Berserkerkitten]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb DeMonkey:

No one has said it does?

I mean, I guess it's possible I interpreted the words "scans your whole system" literally three posts above mine the wrong way, sure.

[-Kittens-]

3 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

All of that is in the EULA ,

it being lawful for your particular country is a debate for lawyers to have.

As stated there is no debate, and there is no precedent. Any time any company has tried to enforce anything like this, it's been shot down, period. EULAs have been deemed neither policy nor law.

[DeMonkey]

7 minutes ago, Berserkerkitten said:

I mean, I guess it's possible I interpreted the words "scans your whole system" literally three posts above mine the wrong way, sure.

Yes, you did, and what's more you know you did.

"Scans your whole system" is entirely correct, you said much the same.

51 minutes ago, Berserkerkitten said:

What their anticheat is likely to do, however, is to scan all running processes.

Read that bit, now look closely and read between the lines. Where are "running processes" located? Why they're located across your whole system.

Yes, Warframe scans your entire system, it's just that it specifically looks at running processes within your system. So what the poster you're referring to said isn't confusing or difficult to interpret in the slightest. Why does Warframe scan your entire system? Running processes or otherwise, makes no difference, their question remains exactly the same.

Edited November 30, 2019 by DeMonkey

[Berserkerkitten]

Uuuh-huh. Sure thing, bud.