+AttackSpeed causes attacks to deal less damage to Highly Armored Enemies -- Reproducible

[hamsterdance]

Melee attacks scale down damage on highly armored enemies based on your modded attack speed. In the video I start with an unmodded weapon, then start installing attack speed mods and the heavy attack damage decreases. Amount of damage decreased seems to ramp with attack speed. 

https://streamable.com/19xh4

Video details: All tests performed with Nikana Prime, no mods except attack speed. Video is tested on a paused AI Level 165 Nox. Bug seems to apply to active AI enemies as well. Tested 3 times in 3 different Simulcrum instances, and reproduced bug and values each time. Tested on engine version: 2019.11.26.12.51 on Dec 1. Seems to mainly affect Nox, bug not observed in casual testing of Scorch, Heavy Gunner and Bombard units. Bug also occurs in lower level Noxes, even a Level 1 Nox. 

Level 165 Nox Paused AI tested with heavy attacks:

• Yellow crit heavy attack with no mods (+0%, 1.08 speed): 232 crit, 277 bleed tick
• Yellow crit heavy attack with Fury (+30%, 1.41 speed): 183 crit, 236 bleed tick
• Yellow crit heavy attack with Fury, Quickening, Gladiator Vice (+100%, 2.17 speed): 122 crit, 166 bleed tick

Level 165 Nox Active AI tested with heavy attacks -- almost no observable effect on strike damage, but very noticeable effect on bleed damage. 

Video showing the +175% speed test, then the +0% test on active Level 165 Nox: https://streamable.com/137h8

• No mods, (+0%, 1.08 speed):
  • Yellow crit: 82 strike, 238 bleed tick
  • White hit: 34 strike, 173 bleed tick
• Fury (+30%, 1.41 speed):
  • Yellow crit: 82 strike, 187 bleed tick
  • White hit: 34 strike, 173 bleed tick 
• Quickening (+40%, 1.52 speed):
  • Yellow crit: 82 strike, 175 bleed tick
  • White hit: 34 strike, 165 bleed tick
• Fury, Quickening (+70%, 1.84 speed):
  • Yellow crit: 82 strike, 147 bleed tick
  • White hit: 34 strike, 137 bleed tick
• Fury, Quickening, Vice (+100%, 2.17 speed):
  • Yellow crit: 82 strike, 127 bleed tick
  • White hit: 34 strike, 118 bleed tick
• Fury, Quickening, Vice, Berserker 3x (+175%, 2.97 speed)
  • Yellow crit: 67 strike, 80 bleed tick
  • White hit: 34 strike, 70 bleed tick

Also tested heavy attacks on a paused Level 165 Juggernaut. 

• Yellow heavy attack with no mods (+0%, 1.08 speed): 637 or 1123 damage
• Yellow crit heavy attack with Fury (+30%, 1.41 speed): 637 or 1016 damage
• Yellow crit heavy attack with Quickening (+40%, 1.52 speed): 637 or 991 damage
• Yellow crit heavy attack with Fury, Vice(+60%, 1.73 speed): 607 or 950 damage
• Yellow crit heavy attack with Fury, Quickening (+70%, 1.84 speed): 590 or 932 damage -- (identical results when tested with Quickening, Vice)
• Yellow crit heavy attack with Fury, Quickening, Vice (+100%, 2.17 speed): 549 or 892 damage.

Edit: Light attacks DO seem to be affected.

Active AI Level 165 Nox, tested using light attacks: 

• No mods:
  • Yellow slash: 88 hit, 231 bleed tick
  • White slash: 37 hit, 104 bleed tick
• 100% attack speed mods:
  • Yellow slash: 88 hit, 121 bleed tick
  • White slash: 37 hit, 104 bleed tick

So yeah, in almost every test I can run on Nox and Juggernaut, increasing attack speed causes your attacks to deal less damage. Since it's mainly affecting Nox and Juggernaut, it seems like it's related to armor. I wonder how long this bug has been around for. 

Edited December 4, 2019 by hampsptr
More info, format

[hamsterdance]

Level 20 Nox Tests, active AI, no other mods, non-headshot heavy attack with Nikana Prime

0%
244 yellow slash, 238 bleed

30%
193 yellow slash, 187 bleed

175%
106 yellow slash, 130 bleed

 

Started checking other weapons, Gram Prime is also affected, but less so. 

Level 20 Nox, active AI, no other mods, non-headshot heavy attack with Gram Prime

0%
67 white hit, 174 yellow crit
30%
67 white hit, 174 yellow crit
100%
67 white hit, 157 yellow crit
175%
67 white hit, 93 yellow crit

Edited December 2, 2019 by hampsptr
links

[standardheadache]

Great work! My guess is that this was either a stealth patch to make Berserker less of a necessary mod, or it's simply slipped through the cracks all this time.

 

[Chipmunch]

Have you tested this with Zaws yet? I'm noticing tiny but weird discrepancies in slash proc damage with both Gram Prime and Nikana Prime with speed mods on/off, but for some reason my Zaw (or at least its slash procs) seem unaffected. Non-gilded, non-catalyzed Sepfahn strike Zaw at rank 20 with Korb grip and Vargeet II Ruhang link. Tested on level 100 Nox with AI on. Bit late where I am so afraid I can't test this much yet. Using the heavy attack on Nikanas to force the slash proc.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Chipmunch
Added extra details about attack types used.

[Zakkhar]

Yikes; that explains why my Redeemer seems to tickle lvl 67 Noxes (even with point black headshot), while it obliterates 165 Bombards at any range.

This is silly, according to wiki Bombards 165 have almost twice the EHP of 165 Nox and 23 times as much as 67 Nox. 

I think there is a double bug there (with Noxes in general and with aspeed scaling).

I tested with Gunblades on Demolysts - damage falls off with aspeed.

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by Zakkhar

[Zakkhar]

@hampsptr

You should try testing it with negative aspeed. eg. Spoiled Strike

Edited December 3, 2019 by Zakkhar

[hamsterdance]

That's a good idea @Zakkhar. 

Level 165 Nox, paused AI, Nikana Prime, rank 4 Pressure Point (+100% damage, no change to attack speed)

• 247 slash with a 352 bleed
• 243 slash with a 332 bleed

Level 165 Nox, paused AI, Nikana Prime, Spoiled Strike (+100% damage, -20% attack speed)

• 266 slash with a 370 bleed
• 262 slash with a 351 bleed

Similar results with a Juggernaut. So, negative attack speed does increase your damage. Weird. 

Edited December 4, 2019 by hampsptr

[sam686]

This also happens to regular primary weapons with Fire rate and Multishot. Happens with Rubico Prime, Tigris Prime, Grakata, and possibly all weapons with Slash, Puncture,  and Impact.

Does not happen to: ignis, Lanka, and maybe a melee like Silva & Aegis. Those have No Slash, no Puncture, No impact. Those have only element damage like cold, electricity, heat, toxin, and more.

Here is the video of Tigris prime with Level 10 Nox and Juggernaut. Look at the poor white damage numbers.
63 to Juggernaut; 21, 32 to Nox with no mods
11, 15 to Juggernaut; 8 to Nox with +90% Fire Rate and +120% Multishot.

 

[Potitius]

2 hours ago, sam686 said:

This also happens to regular primary weapons with Fire rate and Multishot. Happens with Rubico Prime, Tigris Prime, Grakata, and possibly all weapons with Slash, Puncture,  and Impact.

Does not happen to: ignis, Lanka, and maybe a melee like Silva & Aegis. Those have No Slash, no Puncture, No impact. Those have only element damage like cold, electricity, heat, toxin, and more.

Here is the video of Tigris prime with Level 10 Nox and Juggernaut. Look at the poor white damage numbers.
63 to Juggernaut; 21, 32 to Nox with no mods
11, 15 to Juggernaut; 8 to Nox with +90% Fire Rate and +120% Multishot.

 

this is rather important when thinking about DPS or DPshot  on the crunch side of things.

 

I really hope this is just a bug and not something intentional of DE. because then we all got to redo our builds.

[hamsterdance]

The fact that it doesn't happen in non-IPS weapons is very interesting. At least it only affects two enemies (as far as I can tell). Hopefully it's just some special conditions affecting them, and not a bug in all of damage calculation. 

[(PSN)TheRocket91]

Since the old blood update I've noticed the gladiator mods aren't giving the stated set bonus as well. Check out my recent post for more info. 

Gladiator mods set bonus is the only reason to use them, needs fix asap. 

[Vahenir]

This makes me wonder if warframe buffs that increase rate of fire/attack speed also decrease damage of weapons etc.