Regarding Pablo's recent stream about saryn

[SordidDreams]

4 hours ago, AnuKaneDai said:

Why DE nerfed catchmoon. Statistics proved that  it's was the main secondary weapon.

So what? Why is it bad if a lot of people use the same gun? It's a game, literally everything people do in it they do because it's fun. Being powerful is more fun than not being powerful. If most people use the same gun, that's because it's the most fun gun in the game. So, DE literally nerfed Catchmoon because it was too fun.

Edited December 3, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Proscriptor]

Tennos aren't real. 

[ILOHARTA]

I would like to point out that I've seen Mirage outperforming Saryn in ESO several times. Time to nerf Mirage too?

[DeMonkey]

14 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

If most people use the same gun, that's because it's the most fun gun in the game

You aren't fooling anyone.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

8 hours ago, --C--Nehra said:

Exactly, like how people are still using catchmoon even after the nerf, because it didn't solve anything. 

I'm using the Catchmoon still, just to spite the change they made to it. (and they still didn't fix the problem of nothing else in the secondary slot being worth using for the same reasons it was used for.) Note that my "using it" is having it equipped, and possibly killing some level 1-10 trash for Nightwave "kills with an element that I don't build my real guns to use" acts that I don't want to bother messing with mod setups to change for an act.

Catchmoon was nerfed into the ground for its actual utility in "real" content where it was previously useful. I melee anything within its effective range (even with 5 forma in it, and the Lethal Momentum placed in the plexilus slot) unless it's one of the annoying hovering or crawling enemies that evade most melee strikes by being a few inches outside their effective hit boxes.

I play 99% solo, with 1 friend occasionally, when our schedules allow.
I play melee 99% of the time and never used spin2win, nor did I own all the required mods to make it work. I'm still against the spin2win nerf to the extent they went.
I use Inaros 99% of the time, because he's suited to surviving melee combat range, and can restore his own health. (getting Inaros was the turning point for me from being about to quit the game due to a lack of energy to use warframe abiliies leading to boring gameplay and survivability issues with frames that had to spend energy on their survival tools, obviously not having had focus stuff to fall back on at that point... to loving the game.)

I play slowly, and inefficiently, compared to most. (I like opening crates and lockers and searching for Ayatan treasures and caches and rare chests and syndicate marks) I might randomly decide to hunt down a planet's rare resource by their breakable nodes, while in the middle of a capture mission.

That said, ESO is completely antithetical to my preferred way to play the game, and as Inaros, I can barely make it through round 3 of ESO, due to "efficiency" issues.

Saryn, on the other hand, is built for killing enemies when there are lots of enemies to spread her disease to. That's kinda her niche. If you take away that niche... what is she? Not worth using, that's what. When I pull out Saryn, I expect her to do what she's built for. I'm sure I'll eventually make it to round 8 of ESO with my friend (got to 7 so far), but we've only run it a half dozen times together... but without Saryn doing her thing, I don't see how that game mode is supposed to function. The efficiency system is bonkers... it's calibrated to Saryn level destruction (about the only place Saryn is useful to me - I bring Necros to survival - because life support, Inaros to exterminate and most everything else really, unless I want to make it easier, Frost/Gara/Wisp to defense, Loki/Ivara to spy... Saryn is ESO... that's it.)

The whole "nerf by popularity" thing is so wrong... of course people will gravitate to what works best or is the most fun to them. Nerfing that, and making them choose the next best thing doesn't FIX anything, and just reduces the fun.

I don't see the point in nerfing Saryn, whatsoever, and I barely use her, despite whatever power she supposedly has. I do not trust that a "rework" or "nerf" of Saryn will be light or tweaking... it'll be "to the ground", just to make a point, like the Catchmoon junk.

I will never see eye to eye with people clamoring for nerfs, especially in a PVE game. It doesn't even bother me when I go Co-op and someone else is helping to accomplish the objective of the mission much faster... I mean, that's what your teammates are for... I don't want everyone to get 25% of the kills equally...  that's just silly, and even if most of the kills are carried out by one frame, as long as the objective was completed, that's great in my book.

 

The whole, "slow down and kill one enemy at a time, don't use abilities, and hide behind cover" mindset that I see leaking through most of the nerf/balance people's perspectives seems really boring and annoying to me, and forcing everyone into a grey homogenized "nobody is better than anyone else at anything - gun platform" condition of the game at the logical conclusion of the nerf/balance mindset that I often see proposed.

 

Don't touch Saryn. Don't balance around ESO. Fix ESO so more playstyles are "efficient" and can reach wave 8.

[Fl_3]

I've just noticed that every post from [DE]Pablo, and every post that mentioned him directly or "@" him in this thread has been deleted.

That's rather suspicious as all he did was confirm several times that there wasn't going to be any nerf to Saryn.

Or, is someone not telling us the truth and removing the evidence?

Conspiracy theories go!

[SordidDreams]

9 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

You aren't fooling anyone.

I'm not trying to? I mean, I wouldn't use it even if they reverted the nerf, the Acceltra is way more powerful than the old Catchmoon ever was.

[Colyeses]

2 minutes ago, Fl_3 said:

I've just noticed that every post from [DE]Pablo, and every post that mentioned him directly or "@" him in this thread has been deleted.

That's rather suspicious as all he did was confirm several times that there wasn't going to be any nerf to Saryn.

Or, is someone not telling us the truth and removing the evidence?

Conspiracy theories go!

No, it's probably a bit of damage control considering the community immediately assumed that tomorrow's patch notes will look like this:

Saryn

Spores - Range is now 5 meters and not affected by mods, bound by LoS. Spores no longer spread.

Miasma - Range is now 2 meters, not affected by mods.

[(PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO]

The real reason things get nerfed?

They don't want you to settle with 1 weapon or 1 frame,  they need us to grind, build, buy, trade, forma equipment. That's why rivens disposition is based more on popularity than the weapons actual dps. It's a cycle that can't end, for the sake of the warframe grind style. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

5 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

they also decided to take raids out of the game, and said they would come back.. that was about a year ago, still no raids. people can get distracted and put things on the backburner. until you see undeniable proof that a nerf will happen (I.E. a lengthy discussion on Devstream, forum thread by DE staff, etc.), all you're doing is getting yourself worked up assuming the worst. chill out, and see where the pieces fall before you go grabbing your pitchfork.

sometimes yes, they do. but they have also nerfed things without breaking them. for example, Inaros when he first came out regained health from Sandstorm, but they believed this was excessive, so made it the Sandstorm we have now, and Inaros is still one of the top frames. they can do nerfs right, it's just sometimes they get it wrong in spectacular fashion, and that's far more memorable (Ember after her first rework).

 

1) I'm perfectly calm about this. 

2) I dont buy this "well a nerf isnt confirmed" mentality. Pablo said, among other things "it has to happen." He might not be "working on it RIGHT NOW" But based on his comments it seems like hes at the very least considering it. People should be worried. 

[(XBOX)poodlebingo 65]

A problem of DE's own making. Too many weapons and frames requiring a constant cycle of rework/nerf. Appeasing players with quick fixes whilst ignoring core game. A sure recipe for discontent amongst some sections of players. I've grown tired of this monotonous cycle and have deleted the game. A real pity because, for years, this was my goto game. A shame, a real shame and I'll miss you. (for a while)

[vegetosayajin]

Just make existing content/rewards good in place of nerfing/"balancing" things that everyone enjoys.

[Skaleek]

6 hours ago, 8faiNt said:

Banshee isnt even in the list they always forget my girl

Definitely Banshee could use some love. Loki too. Chroma, frost, grendel are all on my "have useless ability" lists.

[Miyabi-sama]

5 часов назад, Fellas92 сказал:

... in the meantime MY Nyx,Chroma,Grendel,Titania,Zephyr are sitting in the corner eating glue.

Ftfy.

I'm genuinely shocked. What does chroma do in your list?

[Fellas92]

6 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

I'm genuinely shocked. What does chroma do in your list?

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know that a warframe is fun/good when you basically only use buff abilities while 1 and 4 are trash. But hey, if you find frames perfect when they only have 1-2 great abilities then kudos to you.
And do tell me how fun grendel is. Oh you can eat up an enemy ? And use a weird rotating buff ability that does jack most of the time ? Or the part where he runs out of energy in a second if he consumes more than 7 enemies ? Or the meatball thing where it can't kill anything past level 50 ? 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Fellas92

[Rakosta_Kai]

@Smilomaniac

You are either conflating or assuming a few things so allow me to clear those up...

• Me citing common sense and common knowledge as a "beef".
• Calling crappy behavior in groups the Meta. 
• Prescribing solutions you, yourself, should be taking as the solution for others instead.
• Calling a Frame or mechanic inconsiderate when, in fact, it's the player instead.
• It's not that I'm happy about a potential nerf...I'm just not surprised.

1 hour ago, Smilomaniac said:

To answer your question, if I'd rather get rid of players that play the obnoxious meta or the three that complain about the other? I'd ignore the three, because they're running to the teacher when they could've done something about themselves.
It's not so simple as you set it up and I don't agree with you on this.

i.e. 1>3

Whether you realize it or not...That says alot about you.

Either your math is horrendous or you think others exist merely for your benefit imo.

1 hour ago, Smilomaniac said:

All I'm saying is that Saryn is the symptom, not the problem(s).

Agreed...The problem is That Guy.

That Guy is the one that takes builds tuned for solo endless gameplay into pugs because they need to compete with the unwitting.

That Guy derives some pathetic form of validation from the Mission Summary results which is why they keep prancing into Pugs instead of going solo instead.

That Guy hides behind the things like "the meta", "enemy count", "assigned dps", or "carrying the mission" as impetus for their misbehavior.

If something That Guy is doing gets nerfed...They just run to the next perceived OP thing and start over.

Basically, when nerfs occur, the big ones can almost always be traced back to something That Guy is doing.

[Miyabi-sama]

1 минуту назад, Fellas92 сказал:

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know that a warframe is fun when you basically only use his buff abilities while his 1 and 4 are trash.

I agree with you. Though it raises another question: what does chroma do in the same list with fun and versatile frames (xcept Grendel maybe)?

[(PSN)CrazyBeaTzu]

Besides major outliers, nerfs happen because casuals hate min-maxers. 

[vegetosayajin]

5 hours ago, AnuKaneDai said:

But, let see closer.
Why DE nerfed Ember: Tennos complaining about other Tennos rushing with 4.
Problems here. Tennos who goes in public expecting having a quiet party, tennos who goes in public only to rush and carry the game by themself instead of doing same but alone.

The problem here is not the rushing - rushing is the cause. When you have to farm a specific reward and it's rng you need to lower the time for each action/mission to be more efficient with your time. And if a player wants a quiet mission it's he who might want to plays solo, not the other way around. I don't see a valid argument in that point.

5 hours ago, AnuKaneDai said:

Why DE nerfed catchmoon. Statistics proved that  it's was the main secondary weapon.
Problem kinda a "spam" of the same weapon because of the efficiency of it.
 

Same problem like the one above.

5 hours ago, AnuKaneDai said:

Why DE would "nerf" Itzal
People who was taking itzal only to spam 1
Problems here, spamming of only 1 ability, and most of people who do it, dont knews that Itzal got 3 other ability or how to use it.
nd how to get the best of them.
 

Well I don't know what people are you talking about but itzal was the most used not for just his 1 but his 3 and his 2.Maybe the 4th ability was underused(because it was not that good) but Itzal was the most used because it was the best at archwing, normal bounties and eidolons. Yes, Amesha was great at support/mobile defence but it's the same problem - these missions are not many and the rewards from them were not good.Plus you can easily not need amesha when you have an crowd-wiper like larkspur.So the problem is not itzal - it's the content/rewards that is available for archwing.
 

5 hours ago, AnuKaneDai said:

Why DE would nerf Saryn? Because of people who is only spamming 4 or 1
Did you really think if Saryn wasnt over used and wasnt use to spam 1 ability DE would think about nerf her?
 

If "people" only spam 1 and 4 than they are doing hydron/first 6-7 zones of eso for example.Same reason - efficiency.Doesn't matter if it's to speed up the rng result or level some weapon for the 100 time (that is a flawed system btw), it's for the reason that people want to get the "labor" that they know they can without these tools much slower or not as efficient.

tl;dr the problems is not the tools, its the system

Edited December 3, 2019 by vegetosayajin

[EinheriarJudith]

4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

~snip~

what? ive seen so many people 1-3 shot shaper with more power creep than seen in warframe. dont praise how broken PoE is please. they added korean lvl grinding mechanics and tedious end game. and are now trying to reduce item grinding by removing one of the notorious item grinding items. Links. all its going to do is drive the price of jewelers orb up because links job was pushed onto jewelers orb.

Edit: PoE has 2 of the things games need to stop having. Sponge, and OHKO

Edited December 3, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[8faiNt]

7 minutes ago, Fellas92 said:

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know that a warframe is fun/good when you basically only use buff abilities while 1 and 4 are trash. But hey, if you find frames perfect when they only have 1-2 great abilities than kudos to you.

Chroma's 4 prob one of the most important ultimates because of its double credit gimmick which makes him the best for farming Credits though hes 1 is pretty much trash and outside of farming credits his 4 only can do basic tasks like holding a position and such

deff not great but still way way powerful considering the utility power you have

[Huteer]

13 hours ago, Xaero said:

Yeah maybe. Try finding something you like regardless of its power instead of going for the meta.

For me that was Ember, then they #*!%ed with her abilities and ruined her. As far as I'm concerned.

Umbral forma feels like a trap now. Don't want to waste it so I don't use it.

[Miyabi-sama]

1 минуту назад, 8faiNt сказал:

Chroma's 4 prob one of the most important ultimates because of its double credit gimmick which makes him the best for farming Credits though hes 1 is pretty much trash and outside of farming credits his 4 only can do basic tasks like holding a position and such

deff not great but still way way powerful considering the utility power you have

You'd get more credits doing 25k cred reward dark sector survival with Valkyr slapping infested with secura lecta than going with chroma's ult. Been there already. His gimmick is just a gimmick.

[Foefaller]

56 minutes ago, ILOHARTA said:

I would like to point out that I've seen Mirage outperforming Saryn in ESO several times. Time to nerf Mirage too?

What build does this?

Genuinely curious, because I don't often see Mirage in ESO, and it's usually a HoM build, which while powerful, isn't usually "beats Saryn to killing enemies noone can see" powerful. Does it use Explosive Legerdemain?

[8faiNt]

1 minute ago, Miyabi-sama said:

You'd get more credits doing 25k cred reward dark sector survival with Valkyr slapping infested with secura lecta than going with chroma's ult. Been there already. His gimmick is just a gimmick.

So you dont know how to get 500k to 2mill every 4 min doing profit takers. its okay.

Edited December 3, 2019 by 8faiNt