Regarding Pablo's recent stream about saryn

[RX-3DR]

Just now, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Catchmoon. Nerfed.
Nekros/Ivara/Hydroid/Khora farming synergy. Nerfed...until complaints forced DE to change their minds.
Nekros will be nerfed...because he's popular.
Inaros will be nerfed...because he's popular.
Saryn will be nerfed...because she's popular.
[Insert frame, weapon, archwing, sentinel, pet name] will be nerfed...because it's popular.

Correlation is not causation. Once again, consider, would they be popular if they didn't have a reason to be popular? If they had reasons to be popular, were the reasons good or bad for the health of the game? Take for example, Catchmoon was taking up way too much usage of secondary weapons due to its easy to use nature combined with it's strong stats and the option of Pax Arcanes. Its only downside was barely a problem in majority of situations to a point where it was reigning supreme over every Shotgun pistol and most semi-auto pistols.

Simply put it, something being overpowered causes it to be popular. It will be nerfed because it is overpowered. Popularity and something being nerfed are not directly linked, so the notion that making something popular means it'll be nerfed is like saying that being older will make more money and ignoring the factor of expertise, skill and opportunity.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

1 minute ago, RX-3DR said:

Correlation is not causation. Once again, consider, would they be popular if they didn't have a reason to be popular? If they had reasons to be popular, were the reasons good or bad for the health of the game? Take for example, Catchmoon was taking up way too much usage of secondary weapons due to its easy to use nature combined with it's strong stats and the option of Pax Arcanes. Its only downside was barely a problem in majority of situations to a point where it was reigning supreme over every Shotgun pistol and most semi-auto pistols.

Simply put it, something being overpowered causes it to be popular. It will be nerfed because it is overpowered. Popularity and something being nerfed are not directly linked, so the notion that making something popular means it'll be nerfed is like saying that being older will make more money and ignoring the factor of expertise, skill and opportunity.

And for players the best way to ensure things don't get nerfed is to not add forma and Orokin reactors/catalysts. The more players do that the closer we get to something being fun, enjoyable, and efficient and this, according to the players asking for nerfs left and right, has no place in a game like Warframe.
The best way for a frame to not get nerfed is for the frame to not be used.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

4 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Correlation is not causation. Once again, consider, would they be popular if they didn't have a reason to be popular? If they had reasons to be popular, were the reasons good or bad for the health of the game? Take for example, Catchmoon was taking up way too much usage of secondary weapons due to its easy to use nature combined with it's strong stats and the option of Pax Arcanes. Its only downside was barely a problem in majority of situations to a point where it was reigning supreme over every Shotgun pistol and most semi-auto pistols.

Simply put it, something being overpowered causes it to be popular. It will be nerfed because it is overpowered. Popularity and something being nerfed are not directly linked, so the notion that making something popular means it'll be nerfed is like saying that being older will make more money and ignoring the factor of expertise, skill and opportunity.

I now regret putting forma into Octavia and Khora. They have become frames I want to use way more specifically because they don't require as much interactivity as other frames do, and this helps me and my poor arms, hands, tendons, wrists and elbows from causing me pain for days when I'm mashing the circle button to melee over and over again.

But, guess what...people here will complain that such frames are lazy and need to be reworked or buffed because they are efficient at killing enemies. Who cares that, for some like myself, such frames are very helpful and may make some people happy because they can give their hands and arms a rest.

Just sigh is my response to all this. Eventually Khora and Octavia will become frames that you need to mash buttons for because people will complain after they've made all the other frames cookie cutter.

[Isokaze_BestKaze]

16 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Correlation is not causation. Once again, consider, would they be popular if they didn't have a reason to be popular? If they had reasons to be popular, were the reasons good or bad for the health of the game? Take for example, Catchmoon was taking up way too much usage of secondary weapons due to its easy to use nature combined with it's strong stats and the option of Pax Arcanes. Its only downside was barely a problem in majority of situations to a point where it was reigning supreme over every Shotgun pistol and most semi-auto pistols.

Simply put it, something being overpowered causes it to be popular. It will be nerfed because it is overpowered. Popularity and something being nerfed are not directly linked, so the notion that making something popular means it'll be nerfed is like saying that being older will make more money and ignoring the factor of expertise, skill and opportunity.

Seconded.

13 minutes ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

And for players the best way to ensure things don't get nerfed is to not add forma and Orokin reactors/catalysts. The more players do that the closer we get to something being fun, enjoyable, and efficient and this, according to the players asking for nerfs left and right, has no place in a game like Warframe.
The best way for a frame to not get nerfed is for the frame to not be used.

Again your reasoning is the opposite. No matter the game, people flocks to the strongest and easiest methods. Some game have the "flavour of the month" where every update something OP is discovered and is abused until it is nerfed.

It's less important in Warframe because there is no competition between players. However people do spam the easiest and most overpowered tactics.

Catchmoon nerf was entirely deserved. With a good catchmoon you could just remove any other primary or secondary weapon from your inventory. It was strong enough by itself.

Btw the best way to not get shafted in this situation is to have a large diversity of weapons and frame with a large variety of build. If one get (usually rightfully) nerfed you can just switch to another.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Isokaze_BestKaze

[Lost_Cartographer]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

I now regret putting forma into Octavia and Khora. They have become frames I want to use way more specifically because they don't require as much interactivity as other frames do, and this helps me and my poor arms, hands, tendons, wrists and elbows from causing me pain for days when I'm mashing the circle button to melee over and over again.

But, guess what...people here will complain that such frames are lazy and need to be reworked or buffed because they are efficient at killing enemies. Who cares that, for some like myself, such frames are very helpful and may make some people happy because they can give their hands and arms a rest.

Just sigh is my response to all this. Eventually Khora and Octavia will become frames that you need to mash buttons for because people will complain after they've made all the other frames cookie cutter.

Leave your hysteria at the door, please.  A little critical thinking goes a long way.

The only questions you need to ask are:

1. Is EVERYONE using this tool?  If Yes?  DE might look into it.  50% usage means it's become mandatory.  Popularity is a reason to suspect something, unless it gets woefully popular.

2. Does it deny 3 other players a chance to play by reliably eliminating an entire room of enemies faster than they can spill into it?  If yes, then DE will probably nerf it at some point.  In a Co-op setting, it's bad news if someone's treating it like a solo game and the other 3 might as well be hanging out at a relay.

Khora and Octavia aren't quite room smashers nor used by near half the player base.  They're a LONG ways from the nerf bat.

And FFS, forma are not rare.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

[ZENTRIERER]

Didn't read the entire thread but my 2 cents about this:

Hit her hard with that Nerf-Hammer please. I want to stop leaving games when I see a strong Saryn in public. I'd like to be able to kill some enemies too, you know.

Either nerf her or even better yet, give players the ability to exclude frames from their playsessions, I'd enjoy that feature. Limbo/Saryn anyone?

*Starts running because pitchforks.*

 

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

5 minutes ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

Leave your hysteria at the door, please, or just don't step through it at all anymore.  A little critical thinking goes a long way.

The only questions you need to ask are:

1. Is EVERYONE using this tool?  If Yes?  DE might look into it.  50% usage means it's become mandatory.  Popularity is a reason to suspect something, unless it gets woefully popular.

2. Does it deny 3 other players a chance to play by reliably eliminating an entire room of enemies faster than they can spill into it?  If yes, then DE will probably nerf it at some point.  In a Co-op setting, it's bad news if someone's treating it like a solo game and the other 3 might as well be hanging out at a relay.

Khora and Octavia aren't quite room smashers nor used by near half the player base.  They're a LONG ways from the nerf bat.

And FFS, forma are not rare.

Forma and Orokin Catalysts and Reactors are used on things we like. If the things we like are going to be nerfed then it is not worth using forma and Orokin Catalysts and Reactors because they lead to things being nerfed.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

8 minutes ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

Leave your hysteria at the door, please.  A little critical thinking goes a long way.

The only questions you need to ask are:

1. Is EVERYONE using this tool?  If Yes?  DE might look into it.  50% usage means it's become mandatory.  Popularity is a reason to suspect something, unless it gets woefully popular.

2. Does it deny 3 other players a chance to play by reliably eliminating an entire room of enemies faster than they can spill into it?  If yes, then DE will probably nerf it at some point.  In a Co-op setting, it's bad news if someone's treating it like a solo game and the other 3 might as well be hanging out at a relay.

Khora and Octavia aren't quite room smashers nor used by near half the player base.  They're a LONG ways from the nerf bat.

And FFS, forma are not rare.

If you think this is about Forma, Orokin Reactors/Catalysts being difficult to obtain, which they are not at all, then you don't understand my point.

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

15 minutes ago, Lost_Cartographer said:

Leave your hysteria at the door, please.  A little critical thinking goes a long way.

The only questions you need to ask are:

1. Is EVERYONE using this tool?  If Yes?  DE might look into it.  50% usage means it's become mandatory.  Popularity is a reason to suspect something, unless it gets woefully popular.

2. Does it deny 3 other players a chance to play by reliably eliminating an entire room of enemies faster than they can spill into it?  If yes, then DE will probably nerf it at some point.  In a Co-op setting, it's bad news if someone's treating it like a solo game and the other 3 might as well be hanging out at a relay.

Khora and Octavia aren't quite room smashers nor used by near half the player base.  They're a LONG ways from the nerf bat.

And FFS, forma are not rare.

1. Less than 10% of time is spent using this frame. This isn't exactly Catchmoon levels of usage, even among the still rare MR27s.

2. No, not unless the gameplay is below a T2 difficulty. One could do the same with a multitude of frames faster that aren't considered nukes. The claim that it is tends to be overblown.

No Warframe's being used by anywhere near half the playerbase according to stats other than Excalibur by MR0-5s.

It's not about the forma it's about the principle of nerfing work and grind simply because some players got mad. I mean if you don't have a problem with work being "invalidated" as it's been thrown around so casually here, I have to ask what you actually care about.

In then end this nerfing mentality is causing many to just not put work into anything because it'll just get nerfed eventually. Not everything needs to be micromanaging or active constantly.

Edited December 4, 2019 by (XB1)Almighty Deity

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

23 hours ago, Fellas92 said:

Alright, so... the word is spreading that Saryn might be getting nerfed/reworked soon, while in the meantime Nyx,Chroma,Grendel,Titania,Zephyr are sitting in the corner eating glue. Now don't get me wrong, some of the abilities are decent, but in general, the main arsenal is pretty garbage.

I don't really understand the logic behind DE. They create something x10 times stronger than the rest of the items in game, then they get surprised people use it and nerf it. Same applies to weapons. I mean nerfing something broken is fine, but we also need other things to get buffed once in a while as well. For example, Hema requires a frick ton of mutagen samples to get, but what do we get in the end ? A mediocre gun at best.

I won't even start on some of the mods.... warm coat,rifle aptitude, etc... So how about DE instead of reworking the same warframe for several times, you actually look into other things, which haven't been looked at for several years ? 
 

I love Titania. I was going to put my next umbral forma on her...but that will make her popular and she'll get nerfed.

[Violet_Xe]

Gonna comment on some stuff first but feel as though I'm gunna regret to replying to so many dif people and having to maining so many discussions lol.

Spoiler

10 hours ago, Vyra said:

Sad enough, not everyone knows and understand this kind of humors...
As i said in the deleted topic, people of responsibility/power should not make fun about things they can do that would affect an entire community/gaming environment etc...

Its like you are working for me and i am telling you, and i make it sound serious; "dud, i know you've been working hard but i think i cut your loan by 50%. i know you don't like the idea but yeah, its happening!!!"....and after you got home, told your wife about it i send you a whatsapp; "im just sh'ttn onya, all cool.. just kiddn"...

   Joke or not, jokes can ignite touchy topics even in the best of circumstances becuase that joke still involves the topic to an extent. It was only made worse when several youtubers misinterpret the joke as fact or just made videos about it. Tac, the funny guy of warframe, mistook it as him being serious and i honestly don't blame him because when I heard it it sounded serious and it was right on the mark of a frame at the center of the meta. Jokes and humor have meaning than you know.

6 hours ago, (PS4)XxDrakenguardxX said:

Wow, Pablo really went from hero to not so much that fast? I mean it was a private stream, the guy can say what he wants.

That said you can say what you want, but don't expect that sailor who's mother you insulted to not deck you in the face for it.

I'm not saying he shouldnt have said it. But he knows who he is in this comunity and there's no way he couldn't see that sh** storm coming. Honestly to 90% of the comunity who dont watch his personal stuff, that was not a joke or anything close too it.

   Pretty sure we all still respect pablo, haven't seen a single post yet about insulting him or calling his ideas trash. I have skipped a few pages but I haven't seen anything like that. Were just up in arms about what was recently said and microphoned through not just 1 but 2 well known youtubers in under a day. He can say what he want's, just as the rest of us, but as you said he knows who he is in the community. People in high positions needs to watch what they say and how they phrase it no matter if they're... a multimillionaire blonde dolt or a UI/Rework designer.

6 hours ago, Test-995 said:

Well it's actually fun because most of the people taking saryn onto ESO just want to affinities with least effort lol

   Were not just talking about fun here Test, were talking about what's healthy for the game. Even if saryn is the most fun thing in the game if that fun ruins it for players that enjoy other characters then it should be dealt with accordingly. Do High Go said that because he's the exact type of player that doesn't find it a fun way to play. Sure I may not have seen it but it doesn't mean i can't gather my clan/alliance/friends to set it up and get phenomenal results.

3 hours ago, Aluzhun said:

100x this.

Especially when everyone wants to leave after 4 waves and you want to keep going to 8.

I think that the people who "hate" Saryn, do so because they rely on chat to find groups. They see people advertising an ESO run: "1 spot left, need Saryn!" and feel that they've somehow been hard-done by, not knowing that they can go into ESO as any frame and solo the cursed place.

Same with Tridolon hunts - "Nerf Chroma! Nerf Volt! Nerf Trinity! Nerf Harrow! I can't get invited to any groups as X!"

Not entirely, I myself hate saryn with a deep passion and think she should be nerfed in some way shape or form, though I take that hate and redirect it towards improving myself rather then sitting there and complaining. I know how others feel and her hate is justified because it's correct. Just because you or someone else will use their saryn solo, that doesn't mean that-
A) it's alright to leave a frame so polarizing
B) There won't be players who still using saryn publicly even if you don't.

7 hours ago, Cubewano said:

Why not brave it anyway? Worse come to worse thoughts are shared and we are given something to chew on in future.

We can pickup where we left off -

   I do understand how crazy it sounds because it's DE were talking about. But I think where were disconnecting is you're talking about the current state of the game and what's best for that in the short term. At least I think that's where you're coming from. I'm on a different end of the spectrum for long term improvement to the game, using saryn as a catalyst or reference point for how to create difficult content so she and so many other warframes can shine. This is hypothetical though as it only works if DE does it right and keeps on the right track. If they're incapable of doing this I would say yes directly nerfing her would be better but I, in their position, would take the other path.
   I love the other parts of the game, that don't involve me slamming my chakram on the wall to find the third cache I missed, to bits. I've played the game for years just like you and I want all missions to get attention. That's specifically why I'd rather DE handle it differently and my personal experiences only reinforce that thought process. It's biased yes, but from what I've seen players say she dominates in survival, defense, ESO. I hate saryn so much but instead of taking it lying down I directed that hate towards improving myself and now, as a nezha or banshee mind you, keep up with damage and kills without using cheap tactics like reach mods or meta weapons because that's how efficient I've become at killing in some cases. Certainly I shouldn't have to be like that but if I can throw off alot of saryn's by sometimes taking their top damage crown every once in awhile she can't be as powerful as so many players make her out to be.
   When the next bit of power creep comes I hope, hope key word, DE can finally give us some challenging content like the raids or eximus changes I've proposed because those would force players to act differently. Power creep is only power creep if there's no content to match it properly which means it should be called progression. 

   She's certainly the best AoE DPS but there's issues and exceptions/rivals to that title. For one she isn't alone in being capable of killing in mass quickly for the content we care about. Repeating myself with different words here, for the content we care about mirage, volt, and more can wipe ESO up to wave 8 and survivals up to 20m. But if damage is her golden egg then she's got weaknesses for content DE can and has made. Depending on the content released different frames rise to the top. Saryn isn't the Eidolon Slayer. She isn't the Defense Goddess. She isn't alot of things so she isn't oppressive to the point where other frames are unplayable at the highest level of play, it's just her reputation paints her that way. At least that's how it seems to me as I know not every player is willing to train themselves to become hyper efficient at killing. I may not be able to wipe rooms in a single cast but they have to work up their nukes first and I finish my work in that time frame.
   Here's an example, it's preM3.0 of a Kuva Survival but it should get my point across. I don't remember who but one of these players was a saryn prime. This is also one reason why i'm expecting Nezha to get nerfed soon because he also got benefits from heat procs and I can do this without a maxed nezha. I don't run reach either so you can't call me out for classic spin 2 win tactics.

Spoiler

   She would certainly have a small spot in the game but it's uncertain and unclear how many warframes will out value her. After all a debuff frame would fall in the exact same category of supports and CC warframes, useless. Why play them when all content can be wiped with any warframe. In this hypothetical world without spore damage, I'd take a banshee that multiplies damage over Saryn chopping health in 1/2 for a set duration of time and removes armor. Loki isn't king because of disarm alone, he's the master race because of enemy manipulation and control with his 4 abilities. So many warframes have debuff+ more yet what you're suggesting is saryn becoming a black mage that can't deal damage which is why I'm uncertain if she'll remain relevant without spore damage. One of my concerns with a saryn nerf is rather than creating content for other frames to flourish like saryn, we nerf and reduce our current cast and keep going in this nerf/buff cycle till the end of time. This is an uncertainty, not an assured outcome I want to point that out.
   Saryn does overshadow the concept of support, in specific circumstances. But she's far from alone in knocking the support archetype. Trinity and Harrow were hit hard because of energizing dash and arcane magus, CC frames with other operator arcanes, why heal the tank when the tank has it's own healing? why play this support who fights his own team over one who can kill for herself? Why play support or CC when raids were removed! never letting that go. The difficulty of content hasn't aged to spark a desire for the support play style because you don't need debuffs, or buffs, nor do you need healing abilities. Solo meme builds are already capable of soloing content without breaking so much as a sweat. So much is to do with supports and CC not being relevant and it's a crime to pin it all on one class of warframe.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

8 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

Gonna comment on some stuff first but feel as though I'm gunna regret to replying to so many dif people and having to maining so many discussions lol.

  Reveal hidden contents

   Joke or not, jokes can ignite touchy topics even in the best of circumstances becuase that joke still involves the topic to an extent. It was only made worse when several youtubers misinterpret the joke as fact or just made videos about it. Tac, the funny guy of warframe, mistook it as him being serious and i honestly don't blame him because when I heard it it sounded serious and it was right on the mark of a frame at the center of the meta. Jokes and humor have meaning than you know.

   Pretty sure we all still respect pablo, haven't seen a single post yet about insulting him or calling his ideas trash. I have skipped a few pages but I haven't seen anything like that. Were just up in arms about what was recently said and microphoned through not just 1 but 2 well known youtubers in under a day. He can say what he want's, just as the rest of us, but as you said he knows who he is in the community. People in high positions needs to watch what they say and how they phrase it no matter if they're... a multimillionaire blonde dolt or a UI/Rework designer.

   Were not just talking about fun here Test, were talking about what's healthy for the game. Even if saryn is the most fun thing in the game if that fun ruins it for players that enjoy other characters then it should be dealt with accordingly. Do High Go said that because he's the exact type of player that doesn't find it a fun way to play. Sure I may not have seen it but it doesn't mean i can't gather my clan/alliance/friends to set it up and get phenomenal results.

Not entirely, I myself hate saryn with a deep passion and think she should be nerfed in some way shape or form, though I take that hate and redirect it towards improving myself rather then sitting there and complaining. I know how others feel and her hate is justified because it's correct. Just because you or someone else will use their saryn solo, that doesn't mean that-
A) it's alright to leave a frame so polarizing
B) There won't be players who still using saryn publicly even if you don't.

   I do understand how crazy it sounds because it's DE were talking about. But I think where were disconnecting is you're talking about the current state of the game and what's best for that in the short term. At least I think that's where you're coming from. I'm on a different end of the spectrum for long term improvement to the game, using saryn as a catalyst or reference point for how to create difficult content so she and so many other warframes can shine. This is hypothetical though as it only works if DE does it right and keeps on the right track. If they're incapable of doing this I would say yes directly nerfing her would be better but I, in their position, would take the other path.
   I love the other parts of the game, that don't involve me slamming my chakram on the wall to find the third cache I missed, to bits. I've played the game for years just like you and I want all missions to get attention. That's specifically why I'd rather DE handle it differently and my personal experiences only reinforce that thought process. It's biased yes, but from what I've seen players say she dominates in survival, defense, ESO. I hate saryn so much but instead of taking it lying down I directed that hate towards improving myself and now, as a nezha or banshee mind you, keep up with damage and kills without using cheap tactics like reach mods or meta weapons because that's how efficient I've become at killing in some cases. Certainly I shouldn't have to be like that but if I can throw off alot of saryn's by sometimes taking their top damage crown every once in awhile she can't be as powerful as so many players make her out to be.
   When the next bit of power creep comes I hope, hope key word, DE can finally give us some challenging content like the raids or eximus changes I've proposed because those would force players to act differently. Power creep is only power creep if there's no content to match it properly which means it should be called progression. 

   She's certainly the best AoE DPS but there's issues and exceptions/rivals to that title. For one she isn't alone in being capable of killing in mass quickly for the content we care about. Repeating myself with different words here, for the content we care about mirage, volt, and more can wipe ESO up to wave 8 and survivals up to 20m. But if damage is her golden egg then she's got weaknesses for content DE can and has made. Depending on the content released different frames rise to the top. Saryn isn't the Eidolon Slayer. She isn't the Defense Goddess. She isn't alot of things so she isn't oppressive to the point where other frames are unplayable at the highest level of play, it's just her reputation paints her that way. At least that's how it seems to me as I know not every player is willing to train themselves to become hyper efficient at killing. I may not be able to wipe rooms in a single cast but they have to work up their nukes first and I finish my work in that time frame.
   Here's an example, it's preM3.0 of a Kuva Survival but it should get my point across. I don't remember who but one of these players was a saryn prime. This is also one reason why i'm expecting Nezha to get nerfed soon because he also got benefits from heat procs and I can do this without a maxed nezha. I don't run reach either so you can't call me out for classic spin 2 win tactics.

  Hide contents

   She would certainly have a small spot in the game but it's uncertain and unclear how many warframes will out value her. After all a debuff frame would fall in the exact same category of supports and CC warframes, useless. Why play them when all content can be wiped with any warframe. In this hypothetical world without spore damage, I'd take a banshee that multiplies damage over Saryn chopping health in 1/2 for a set duration of time and removes armor. Loki isn't king because of disarm alone, he's the master race because of enemy manipulation and control with his 4 abilities. So many warframes have debuff+ more yet what you're suggesting is saryn becoming a black mage that can't deal damage which is why I'm uncertain if she'll remain relevant without spore damage. One of my concerns with a saryn nerf is rather than creating content for other frames to flourish like saryn, we nerf and reduce our current cast and keep going in this nerf/buff cycle till the end of time. This is an uncertainty, not an assured outcome I want to point that out.
   Saryn does overshadow the concept of support, in specific circumstances. But she's far from alone in knocking the support archetype. Trinity and Harrow were hit hard because of energizing dash and arcane magus, CC frames with other operator arcanes, why heal the tank when the tank has it's own healing? why play this support who fights his own team over one who can kill for herself? Why play support or CC when raids were removed! never letting that go. The difficulty of content hasn't aged to spark a desire for the support play style because you don't need debuffs, or buffs, nor do you need healing abilities. Solo meme builds are already capable of soloing content without breaking so much as a sweat. So much is to do with supports and CC not being relevant and it's a crime to pin it all on one class of warframe.

Best, most well thought out comment in this entire thread.

Thank you.

[Mr.Fluffins]

So much panic in this thread over nothing... People keep talking about this stuff even though it was officially stated that no rework is planned for Saryn.

Saryn already had several re-works. It took DE several years to take Ember out of the trashcan, so I don't think they will be going after Saryn anytime soon.

[J1ha7]

well in my gamestyle i do use pores only for damage
 

im like 1 , 3 , 4 , 2 and sydon smash eso
my thoughts on saryn
best skill equilibrium EVER , a real endgame frame for a endgame we dont not have .. 😄

i hope they make all frames synergies so well their skills
also dont nerf saryn, buff the enemies and the diffficulty this will work for me 😄

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

21 hours ago, Fl_3 said:

All DE has to do is fix ESO so that one frame doesn't dominate it.

It's that simple, or it would be if DE was capable of doing it. It's way easier to fix a thing in a game than to fix the game itself.

Lets be honest, Warframe has a lot that needs fixing at the moment. There are bugs introduced in updates from last year that still haven't been fixed, you only have to see the bug report threads to see that.

DE seems to have gotten into the habit of throwing out content that isn't ready and then instead of fixing the issues throwing out more content to make us forget the problems that are still there. Old Blood and Rising tide are the perfect example, one is still causing issues, but Hey Tenno, you can build your Railjack now so go and concentrate on that and forget about the other!

Enough! Some of us don't care about new content. Please take some time to fix the game instead of just papering over the cracks over and over and over.

If you fix ESO the other frames become just as viable as Saryn. also, if you nerf Saryn, what happens when Equinox or Mirage takes her place? Do you nerf those as well until every frame is exactly the same shade of grey?

How boring will that be?

How un Warframe will that be?

They can't because then people will yell "content drought" which is followed by "Warframe is dying!" So they have to churn out new content. I'd rather they take a break from new content and heal the game but we're not loud enough.

[tzadquiel]

1 hour ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Catchmoon. Nerfed.
Nekros/Ivara/Hydroid/Khora farming synergy. Nerfed...until complaints forced DE to change their minds.
Nekros will be nerfed...because he's popular.
Inaros will be nerfed...because he's popular.
Saryn will be nerfed...because she's popular.
[Insert frame, weapon, archwing, sentinel, pet name] will be nerfed...because it's popular.

last devstream there was a proportion chart. all frames are more or less equally disturbuted, with a few being niche. but as such, the overlal status of warframes ratio was not creating any concerns for DE, and they were vocal about it. 

yall love stats, why nobody is actually looking at them??

LAST DEVSTREAM

[Test-995]

10 hours ago, Violet_Xe said:

 Were not just talking about fun here Test, were talking about what's healthy for the game. Even if saryn is the most fun thing in the game if that fun ruins it for players that enjoy other characters then it should be dealt with accordingly. Do High Go said that because he's the exact type of player that doesn't find it a fun way to play. Sure I may not have seen it but it doesn't mean i can't gather my clan/alliance/friends to set it up and get phenomenal results.

But if someone is taking everything but saryn in ESO they are ruining my fun, my fun is about leveling gears fast, forced to level weapons over 20 minutes aren't fun at all.

They have to fix affinity grinding but i'm certainly sure they won't, so having saryn is more healthier according to my experience. (99% of players in hydron/ESO is leecher, it means they have same mindset as me)

Edited December 4, 2019 by Test-995

[Violet_Xe]

5 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

But if someone is taking everything but saryn in ESO they are runing my fun, my fun is about leveling gears fast, forced to level weapons over 20 minutes aren't fun at all.

They have to fix affinity grinding but i'm certainly sure they won't, so having saryn is more healthier according to my experience. (99% of players in hydron/ESO is leecher, it means they have same mindset as me)

That would be called being selfish. I know that it's in canada but america's rule is your rights stop where they infringes on other's natural right. Your pursuit of happiness should not affect other's because of your own selfish desire. After all you can't kill someone because you feel like it and it makes you feel happy.

But yes there are issues with ESO and the game in general that should be fixed to make saryn and the game healthier overall.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Violet_Xe
*I want to clarify in this edit bar I am not at all trying to force political opinions on others, that's just how I view it*

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

6 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

That would be called being selfish. I know that it's in canada but america's rule is your rights stop where they infringes on other's natural right. Your pursuit of happiness should not affect other's because of your own selfish desire. After all you can't kill someone because you feel like it and it makes you feel happy.

But yes there are issues with ESO and the game in general that should be fixed to make saryn and the game healthier overall.

And you've gone off the deep end comparing playing a videogame to killing people in real life. This has nothing to do with rights in America. What in the world?

[Violet_Xe]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

And you've gone off the deep end comparing playing a videogame to killing people in real life. This has nothing to do with rights in America. What in the world?

What I did was compare an immoral selfish desire to an immoral selfish desire. 2 different extremes in 2 different areas of life but essentially the same thing. If someone says that "you can't play X frame because saryn is more fun for me" that's not a good thing. If Saryn is taking away fun from others that should be changed.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

Just now, Violet_Xe said:

What I did was compare an immoral selfish desire to an immoral selfish desire. 2 different extremes in 2 different areas of life but essentially the same thing. If someone says that "you can't play X frame because saryn is more fun for me" that's not a good thing. If Saryn is taking away fun from others that should be changed.

The two are not, in any way, comparable. You compared running around in a videogame as a character that can spread toxin and corrosive damage to killing people in real life, and the differences between American and Canadian laws. None of that has a place in this discussion. Wow.

[Violet_Xe]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

The two are not, in any way, comparable. You compared running around in a videogame as a character that can spread toxin and corrosive damage to killing people in real life, and the differences between American and Canadian laws. None of that has a place in this discussion. Wow.

And you're trying to take this too literally. All I did was compare an immoral selfish desire, "if someone is taking everything but saryn in ESO they are ruining my fun" and compare it to the most obvious immoral selfish desire, killing someone for fun. They have a connection to the discussion because I linked it to Test saying "if someone is taking everything but Saryn in ESO they are ruining my fun" then that is a selfish immoral desire that goes against what I believe is best for warframe.

Please don't try and twist my words into something they're not. I'm simply giving an example of which I had many to pick from but I went with one that I thought would be an obvious example of an immoral selfish desire. I'm not the best at putting things in context, obviously.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

Just now, Violet_Xe said:

And you're trying to take this too literally. All I did was compare an immoral selfish desire, "if someone is taking everything but saryn in ESO they are ruining my fun" and compare it to the most obvious immoral selfish desire, killing someone for fun. They have a connection to the discussion because I linked it to Test saying "if someone is taking everything but Saryn in ESO they are ruining my fun" then that is a selfish immoral desire that goes against what I believe is best for warframe.

Please don't try and twist my words into something they're not. I'm simply giving an example of which I had many to pick from but I went with one that I thought would be an obvious example of an immoral selfish desire. I'm not the best at putting things in context, obviously.

I am not twisting your words, and I don't enjoy doing this either. Look above. I praised your long post. But the two are not comparable. It would be better if you compared the videogame reference with another videogame reference or to something far less political and far less drastic than killing someone in real life.

[Violet_Xe]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

I am not twisting your words, and I don't enjoy doing this either. Look above. I praised your long post. But the two are not comparable. It would be better if you compared the videogame reference with another videogame reference or to something far less political and far less drastic than killing someone in real life.

Your mother, Nova, goes to the market and buys an orokin cake with gold leaf for her birthday tomorrow. She puts the cake in the fridge until the party. You, Saryn, see the cake in the fridge and it would make you really happy if you could eat it every though it's not yours to eat. But you eat it anyways and when your family comes around there's no cake and your whole family is mad at you. But you share the decorations with them, pretty plastic rings. Just because the cake is there and it makes you happy to eat it doesn't mean you should make other angry by eating the cake even if others get the reward.

is that a little less exteme for you? or maybe a more realistic one.

You're a WoW player and a competitive raiding guild. Shortly after release, your guild starts the raid and your party is suddenly super angry with you. You secretly were using an item which 1 shots all bosses because an admin accidentally gave it to you and you ruined the whole experience for them. Every other guild is angry with you because you stole all the world firsts because you were too strong and the whole experience is ruined because all the enemies are already dead.

Just because something makes you feel happy and is fun for you, doesn't mean you should do it because it can piss off other players. Like Saryn eating cake = the enemies of the game. is that better?

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

1 hour ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

So much panic in this thread over nothing... People keep talking about this stuff even though it was officially stated that no rework is planned for Saryn.

Saryn already had several re-works. It took DE several years to take Ember out of the trashcan, so I don't think they will be going after Saryn anytime soon.

"No rework is CURRENTLY planned for Saryn". It's not that it's not on their radar. In fact it very much is on their radar. Why do you think that they'd release all those usage stats immediately following a nerf to something that was overused?

Most aren't saying or implying they're definitely going to nerf Saryn right now, they're simply showing disapproval towards that action before it's too late.

Edited December 4, 2019 by (XB1)Almighty Deity