Regarding Pablo's recent stream about saryn

[ValinorAtani]

vor 56 Minuten schrieb BRZZAFK:

if warframe is Diablo then they should not have design any warframe that cant nuke. problem is simple. because nuker make all other dps warframe Inefficient and pointless. the solution will be 1.nerf all nuker to the level other dps 2.remake every dps frame into nuker 3.dev a game mode that nuker cant do only other dps frame can do.  

See you're going the right path now. Right now how the game works (not sure what the vision of DE is right now or if DE will ever have any confluent one for the future ) every Frame should have 1 Utility, DPS, Defence and Support Ability. If not we’re going to have the Problems as of right now. But this not the Problem of the Player or of any DPS Frame. The Problem is DE not capable of putting out game modes which requires all kind of Frames not just plain DPS. Why don’t we have Enemies which requires specific (different) Frame Statuses to take damage and so on. The only lazy solution the came up were Nulli Drones and Invulnerability Phases of “Bosses” .

Personally I would love to see some kind of dungeon tile sets (instead of Trials) with each specific assigned role - Tank, Healer, CC/Support, DPS.

Tanks could be Rhinos, Inaros, Nidus, Nezha etc

CC/Support could be Mag, Khora, Nyx, Chroma etc.

DPS could be Saryn, Mesa, Excal, Mirage etc.

Healers could be Trinity, Oberon, Harrows, Hildryn (Shield Healer) etc.

 

- Battlearena: could be (for the introduction and the first start of it) a Sephalon Arena (like the Simalacrum; Semaris wants to test us anyway) before they could add the rest of Factionbased Themes, Enemies, Tilesets to it as well

- Squad based, only Premade = Non Soloable Mechanics, before the Squad enters the “Dungeons” they must assign different Roles to Squadmembers like a Healer (e.g. Trinity, Oberon etc.) 2 DPS and a Tank like Rhino, Inaros you get the idea

- Bosses (should use the standard enemy assets make them 2-3 time as large as the usual ones for the beginning) only attacks the Tanks, Adds during a Fight only attacks the Healers, and the DPS has to help to protect the Healer, solve Puzzle Mechanics something like: stand here to activate a Beam which reduces the Bosses damage, increases his received damage (play some other MMOs out there, there are plenty of Ideas which would suite Warframe as well)

- different DPS Frames could be Streamlined by a Riven Disposition like Aura within Dungeon. e.g. Excal Umbra as Singletarget Nuker 1.0. Saryn probably getting 0.5 (50% of her Damage Potential. So they could tweak the numbers here instead of redesigning all Frames (which they arent capable)

- Healers could be necessary because the environment (e.g. Infested?) could be a pulsing toxin damage every x second etc. or the party needs some damage reduction, immunity, no selfheal auras (to eliminate probably “mandatory and cheesing” gear like Arcane Grace) etc. etc.

- Possible Boss attacks could be Stack Markers (Kills less than 3 players instantly) Only if all 4 are Stacking the damage is spread to all Partymembers etc. etc.

- Weekly changing auras (tied to Tilesets, specific Bosses?) could be introduced as well: additional damage, life leech, reduced energy pools, no operator, no revives, only specific items, no gear etc. etc.

- tune it hard, you can tune it down or add later on lower difficulties Heroic, Normal, PUGs whatever

- drops could be “rare” ressources like Nitain, Kuva, Oxium, etc.

- Endboss drops on common chances a random Arcane (Zaw, Kitgun, Operator included) even if you don’t have the rank with the faction. Could be tweaked here so that Eidolon Hunts still yield better chances etc.

- they had already this kind of mechanics for the LUA-Puzzle Rooms so why not involve it into a battle against enemies?

Edited December 10, 2019 by ValinorAtani

[Xaero]

13 minutes ago, RunningChaos said:

At the level that DE will make them, they will still be nuked.

Maybe, but I hope for the best.

[TheGodofWiFi]

3 hours ago, 8faiNt said:

That's something who is in denial would say

Grow up.

Stop acting like I've said Saryn isn't going to be nerfed, because I haven't. I'm saying that the nerf culture annoys me because it's just bandaiding a festering wound, which is the scaling system and that instead of nerfing things, the devs should actually get to the root of the problem. Like I said previously; I don't care if she gets nerfed or not. So stop trying to strawman my argument.

3 hours ago, 8faiNt said:

you still dont acknowledge the suggestion Im making and commenting about something I did not mention in the thread yes this is derailing.

No it is not. Saryn is the current hot-topic of the vocal community thanks to Pablo's ESO stream recently. Yes, your thread is related to that, just like the other ones are. I didn't comment on your suggestion because I was commenting on the original cause which made you post this thread in the first place, which is the hot-topic of Saryn needing a nerf which originated from Pablo's stream about ESO, where Saryn's are regularly seen as a direct result of the enemy scaling. It's not derailing.

But you try and strawman whatever you want. It's clear that you, just like others, would rather just focus on cutting the head of the weed off rather than take out the root. Then again, I don't really expect any less, as bandaid-nerfing has almost become it's own form of end-game at this point.

Edited December 10, 2019 by TheGodofWiFi

[SnowRyder]

4 hours ago, 8faiNt said:

Since saryn is a frame themed arround contagious spores and deadly viruses my suggesting is completly about that

Well, diseases in real life needs their host to be alive for them to stay alive if the host dies too quickly then the viruse cant spread, viruse would eat itself and eventually die out

So, what if you bring a new mechanic to saryn's scaling ability to her 1? say, after an enemy got the spore/viruse they need to stay alive for x ammount of seconds and if the required x seconds has not been completed you lose x ammount of spore from the spore pool.

or it can just be like you lose x ammount of spore for each enemy you kill with your 1

or enemies that have the spores must die with her miasma for saryn to not lose her spores or she just loses less spores when she kills with miasma 

IMO limiting her infinite scaling ability is a good way of nerfing her without making her absolutely trash(also it is realistic) and my idea is not even well thought Im sure DE can come up with something better if they want to without making her useless

ok now go and make a new thread about octavias mallet

[8faiNt]

21 minutes ago, SnowRyder said:

ok now go and make a new thread about octavias mallet

well if they nerf saryn she might be on the list dont worry

Edited December 10, 2019 by 8faiNt

[(PSN)Siramezz]

if you want to nerf Saryn's scaling spores based on your logic, then why not nerf Octavia's mallet? nerf Mesa's peacekeeper, or infact, nerf every scaling ability in the game then make the game hard due to enemies' infinite scaling. I would suggest you to think about this before you actually give a good answer as to why saryn should be nerfed.

 

PS pablo is not even thinking about nerfing saryn, dont get your hopes up.

[SnowRyder]

put volt, frost, equinox, mesa and gara on the list too because they will hog kills instead of saryn 🙂

[8faiNt]

1 minute ago, SnowRyder said:

put volt, frost, equinox, mesa and gara on the list too because they will hog kills instead of saryn 🙂

Saryn doesnt have a downside to her scaling to be honest. Volt isnt even good against grineer, equinox needs physical damage to work, mesa is a focused DPS, she is limited to her sight and they are not even the same DPS category as Saryn. who even uses Frost for DPS btw? like go play Garuda for nuking at that point 

 

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

if you want to nerf Saryn's scaling spores based on your logic, then why not nerf Octavia's mallet? nerf Mesa's peacekeeper, or infact, nerf every scaling ability in the game then make the game hard due to enemies' infinite scaling. I would suggest you to think about this before you actually give a good answer as to why saryn should be nerfed.

 

PS pablo is not even thinking about nerfing saryn, dont get your hopes up.

throwing random warframes to the list to be nerfed makes your point any more valid then it is? lol yeah that worked out for the last guy

also, this is only a suggestion I dont know why half of you got so angry and triggered. like lol. I am using saryn actively You have to be blind to deny her 1 has any downside to it. Stop being a braindead powercreep that badly.

[SnowRyder]

make rhino buff not multiplicative and nerf chroma damage buff... cant have 1000% damage buff are you crazy 
also volt shield needs nerf, cant have a shield that doubles peoples crit damage
mirage also does way too much damage, needs nerf right?

oh and all those frames that cant die with the right builds? nerf those too

[8faiNt]

1 minute ago, SnowRyder said:

make rhino buff not multiplicative and nerf chroma damage buff... cant have 1000% damage buff are you crazy 
also volt shield needs nerf, cant have a shield that doubles peoples crit damage
mirage also does way too much damage, needs nerf right?

oh and all those frames that cant die with the right builds? nerf those too

[Ikusias]

Saryn only needs to be rolled back to her 2.0 iteration, it was fine as it was and had a lot more power interaction than her current version.

And give her back her 1.0 health pool, the increment in armor was insignificant compared to the Hp she lost...

[chaotea]

I dont think shell be getting a re-work. Just a re-adjustment to how the numbers work.

[blacklusterseph]

19 minutes ago, Ikusias said:

Saryn only needs to be rolled back to her 2.0 iteration, it was fine as it was and had a lot more power interaction than her current version.

And give her back her 1.0 health pool, the increment in armor was insignificant compared to the Hp she lost...

I agree, the only things her last version needed were removing spore turret and the toxic weapon interaction being consistent. The previous iteration Saryn had an even higher damage potential than the current one. No one complained about it though since achieving that power on the older Saryn actually had opportunity costs. Current Saryn has no such costs with the extra annoying caveat that the enemy density is now a factor in her damage, a variable that the players have no control over other than running 4 man squads to pull the higher spawn rates. The design of current Saryn in honestly dumb from top to bottom.

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

9 hours ago, BRZZAFK said:

You can always find high level mobs in sortie, kuva lich and Arbitrations or maybe future update. the main reason they think saryn should be nerf is bacause of she doing too great on killing them.

Yeah, and all of those things you listed, most frames are terrible at because they're designed with specific frames and specific builds and play styles in mind. And all of those things you listed, Saryn's pretty mediocre at honestly.

As far as high level mobs you missed my point completely. You don't just need high level mobs. You needs *lots of* high level mobs. In regular missions enemies come sporadically, and when only start to get more well packed towards the end of the wave. And then the wave ends and the damage decays. You don't get a chance to ramp it up to the extremes that you do in ESO where the whole map is constantly respawning high level enemies.

9 hours ago, BRZZAFK said:

when i said bosses i mean Eidolons,Orb Mothers,wolf,kuva lich. these are new bosses and none of them are qualify what you say. Excalibur doing defense missions? you mean like under level20 with Radial Javelin? if that's the case you can use rhino or limbo. they are better. if you mean 20-60level. then gara does better job. I can name numerous frame can do 8 wave ESO Excalibur not one of then. at least not consistenly, but that's not the point. If you can do it with Exalted Blade then you can do it with any frame with decent melee weapon. 

Well then you're using different terminology than everyone else because assassinate targets have always been called bosses.

And yeah, anyone with a decent melee weapon can do the same thing. Or anyone with a decent primary weapon. Or anyone with a decent secondary. And the same is true of most frames and their abilities. Why is that a bad thing though? Not every frame needs to do something better than something else, they need to be unique in their playstyle which Excalibur is.

And yeah, you can do it with any frame with a decent weapon which is exactly my point... Nezha running around with a scythe can kill faster than Saryn on missions like Hydron and up these days.

The design of Excalibur and why you'd play him is for the enjoyment of wielding that Excalibur. That most awesome of blades. If you don't enjoy how badass exalted weapons look and feel that's fine, but there are still plenty of players who do considering how popular Umbra is at high MR, which you can see in that graph.

9 hours ago, BRZZAFK said:

Clearly we have very diffrent play style.3 specific pieces of content plus kuva lich is basically all i doing those days. so that's why i disagree with you on the balance issue

Then you're denying yourself 98% percent of the game content. If you play this game just to grind out more Vitus essence that's a very sad existance you're left with and I'm sorry. I'll keep enjoying running spy missions, blowing up hoards of enemies, and just generally having fun with the game.

9 hours ago, BRZZAFK said:

So you saying we have to create underpower frame to make other frame feel powerful? Why not let every warframe feel badass and equally useful? if game is unbalance as hell that is opposite of providing choices. every one want to feel like badass and there only 10 frames are badass? Why not make it 42? 

Every frame *does* feel badass... I'm not sure where you're getting that I said otherwise. Nyx and Zephyr could use some help but even they have players who swear by them.

Different frames have different appeals though and feel badass to different people. Even before the rework there were people who though Vauban felt really cool. Just because he didn't feel cool to me doesn't mean he wasn't cool. Just because Excalibur doesn't feel cool to you doesn't mean he's not cool.

I think your opinion on this matter is heavily swayed by your admitted focus on Sorties, Superbosses, and Arbitrations. But those are less than 10% of the game's content and follow a totally different design paradigm than all of the rest of the game.

Go chillax and play a Spy Mission or a Rescue mission for a change and maybe you'll enjoy your frame for what they are rather than just enjoying what they can accomplish.

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb 8faiNt:

Saryn doesnt have a downside to her scaling to be honest. Volt isnt even good against grineer, equinox needs physical damage to work, mesa is a focused DPS, she is limited to her sight and they are not even the same DPS category as Saryn. who even uses Frost for DPS btw? like go play Garuda for nuking at that point 

saryn is awful against corpus 😉 thats her downside....

also i saw volts killing the whole room (of grineers) in a blink while a saryn may spread spores but didn't kill them... just for example...

[8faiNt]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

saryn is awful against corpus 😉 thats her downside....

also i saw volts killing the whole room (of grineers) in a blink while a saryn may spread spores but didn't kill them... just for example...

Volt can out DPS Saryn very easily with a trin and rhino regardless the faction but at solo playing he lacks energy greatly thats his downside

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

vor 1 Minute schrieb 8faiNt:

Volt can out DPS Saryn very easily with a trin and rhino regardless the faction but at solo playing he lacks energy greatly thats his downside

agreed 🙂

[(PSN)Siramezz]

3 hours ago, 8faiNt said:

Saryn doesnt have a downside to her scaling to be honest. Volt isnt even good against grineer, equinox needs physical damage to work, mesa is a focused DPS, she is limited to her sight and they are not even the same DPS category as Saryn. who even uses Frost for DPS btw? like go play Garuda for nuking at that point 

 

throwing random warframes to the list to be nerfed makes your point any more valid then it is? lol yeah that worked out for the last guy

also, this is only a suggestion I dont know why half of you got so angry and triggered. like lol. I am using saryn actively You have to be blind to deny her 1 has any downside to it. Stop being a braindead powercreep that badly.

so you want them to nerf saryn and be fine with other frame with infinite scaling abilities in the game? this makes no sense, and saryn has downsides too, such as missions where you have to move constantly, results in using 1 all the time, unless u mod her for max range, you also do lose out dmg in the process. 

 

"Stop being a braindead powercreep that badly" says the fool who just admitted that you use her actively.

[SpringRocker]

7 hours ago, SnowRyder said:

so whats your point? you could remove saryn from the game and people would just use gara/frost to nuke the entire map instead lol 

Gara/Frost don't nukes maps (maps aren't just 40 meters big).

We're not about that small defense map (hildron, hydrolin?), Saryn is able to clear full-sized maps at the sortie level.

[8faiNt]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

and saryn has downsides too, such as missions where you have to move constantly, results in using 1 all the time

oh wow so hard.. i actually need to use my 1 more than once per mission. oh no.. so hard. i cant believe this is her downside.

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

so you want them to nerf saryn and be fine with other frame with infinite scaling abilities in the game?

which frame is as braindead as saryn and a nuke and has the capacity to scale like saryn do?

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

"Stop being a braindead powercreep that badly" says the fool who just admitted that you use her actively.

Yes because I acknowledge the fact that she has no downside to her 1 and Im man enough to admit that instead of denying it and saying she is fine because she is your fav friend or some S#&$

I feel like you couldve used some common sense before replying to me. Your whole reply is a pointless wall of text that has no real value to it. and I just wasted 5 mins replying back to you. do me a favor dont reply so I wont read an another nonsense of yours

[MirageKnight]

7 hours ago, SnowRyder said:

so whats your point? you could remove saryn from the game and people would just use gara/frost to nuke the entire map instead lol 

Wow, Strawman + Slippery Slope Fallacy.

I'm fairly impressed. You discredited yourself in one sentence.

*slow clap*

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

hmm this seems to be alive, wonder if people are discussing it or just bickering ?

[844448]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

hmm this seems to be alive, wonder if people are discussing it or just bickering ?

yes

[Aldain]

15 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

hmm this seems to be alive, wonder if people are discussing it or just bickering ?

Discussing, bickering and in my case talking about tacos.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

Just now, Aldain said:

Discussing, bickering and in my case talking about tacos.