Regarding Pablo's recent stream about saryn

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Colyeses:

I'm curious about that. I want to test that.

Let's start with Spores' base range, which is 16 meters. Of course, it is self-propagating, so after the initial 16 meters, it can spread farther. This ability can sustain itself and continue to autonomously expand its radius of influence. If a second target is affected, the range can extend up to 32 meters from the initial impact location, just from one secondary target.

at that point you start your mistake... you try to compare ever frames ability with spores.

you miss a few things here:

spores have not that much damage - every other AoE Frame do more

spores do not spread on there own, you have to do something - while every other AoE just sit there and wait

and you compare spores like there is something similar... but as i already wrote, other frames can do the same (killing whole maps) on maps where saryn can do that. 

that does NOT mean, other frames can spread spores. this simply mean: other frames can also kill whole maps.

so your entire "prove" is just wrong...

for example volt can kill a whole defense map in a blink of a second while just press a button..

while spore may spread, but you have to kill the the infested ones and then you may spread to the next ones... also they do (low) damage over time and don't kill immediatly - so every other player still can kill enemies.

to make my point clear: you do not need something like spores to whip a map. you just need something that works to whipe a map. and there are a few other frame which outperform saryn in this.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Desolator_X said:

This. Warframe isn't a game about balancing all frames against each other. It's a game about being super powerful and wrecking hordes of enemies... Saryn is the only frame that scales with enemies and as such does very well in ESO. On any other map she's good, but not broken. It's the same with Mesa: super powerful on (semi) static maps like (mobile)defence, bad on exterminate or maps with a lot of movement. Is Rhino broken because he's one of the best carriers in Index? of course he isn't, even though stomp rhino can clear rooms just as well as some nuker frames, no one complains.

The idea of hating on a handful of frames just because they function well in a certain game type that a lot of high level players use to farm something (focus...) doesn't mean they're broken.

Not really true the whole thing about that the game isnt about balancing frames against eachother. If that would be true we wouldnt have a handful of outliers, we would likely have half the roster being Saryn powerful and the other half being Nyx. But currently we have a whole roster of useful frame kits with a handful of outliers and a Nyx down at the bottom being more or less useless.

The difference is also that while Rhino may be good at index, there are several other frames that does his job i.e carry points as good as him and better while also decimating the enemies. Rhino also doesnt ruin a mission for anyone when he enters it, neither in Index or outside of it. He is simply a good addition to the group that lets everyone be involved in the gameplay. Saryn however completely shuts down any form of teamplay in practically any mission she enters. Everything will be dead and gone before you reach the next group of mobs, pretty much everything will be DoA. While stomp Rhino may clear rooms, he isnt exactly appealing in that state because he does the same thing as quake banshee or the old spamshee. If it is low level, fine he wipes them, when it becomes high level he suddenly turns it into a crawl due to lack of damage.

There just isnt a mission where Saryn is lacking aside from survival where her long range screws up life support drops due to scattering them all over the place. Pretty much everything else that involves killing or defending she is a top pick while also turning it all into a passive spectate mode for the rest in her group.

[Morticoccus]

Your "proof" only serves to highlight why other frames should be buffed instead. Not to even mention ESO In general.

But no, let's just continue the crab bucket nerf mentality.

[8faiNt]

6 minutes ago, Morticoccus said:

Your "proof" only serves to highlight why other frames should be buffed instead. Not to even mention ESO In general.

But no, let's just continue the crab bucket nerf mentality.

How is a suggestion even considered a proof to something? Not to mention this thread wasnt even about ESO

But no, let's just continue to not read the thread and be a braindead fanboy to saryn

[Colyeses]

1 hour ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

spores have not that much damage - every other AoE Frame do more

Actually, that's a bit of an oversimplification. In terms of flat DPS, spores are conditionally very underwhelming. But there's a catch: The spores do not expire. An enemy infected by spores WILL die to them, unless they are cleansed by a nullifier. That is technically the most damage any ability can do. Keep in mind as well that it's three spores on most targets, tripling their effective damage output, and they can continually grow. The only other person that can do that is Gara, IIRC, and the AoE of that damage is diminutive in comparison.

1 hour ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

spores do not spread on there own, you have to do something - while every other AoE just sit there and wait

Most AoEs are bursts, and those that aren't either cannot move and thus cover way less space, or they do move, but need to be moved manually. Saryn's spores spread incredibly aggressively and aren't dependent on a damage oriented build. This leaves Saryn still as one of the least active frames. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

other frames can do the same (killing whole maps)

There's no frame that can kill a whole map, but this is a terminology thing. Yes, Saryn isn't the only one that can wipe a -cell- (Gara, Volt, Equinox), but Saryn IS the only one that is proficient at wiping a -map-.

1 hour ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

you do not need something like spores to whip a map. you just need something that works to whipe a map. and there are a few other frame which outperform saryn in this.

There are frames that outperform her for cell-wiping, but not map-wiping. And those that do outperform her in some way usually also have heavier drawbacks when trying to take this role. Gara, for example, has to hold her vitrify for a fairly lengthy time to be able to compete and has a specific range bracket, leaving enemies close by just CC'd, not killed. Revenant cannot fire upwards, Equinox cannot tap into her defenses while using this, also has a lengthy cast time and has a hard cut-off for effectiveness. 

While I definitely agree that Saryn isn't uniquely a problem, I disagree that she isn't a problem.

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Colyeses:

Actually, that's a bit of an oversimplification. In terms of flat DPS, spores are conditionally very underwhelming. But there's a catch: The spores do not expire. An enemy infected by spores WILL die to them, unless they are cleansed by a nullifier. That is technically the most damage any ability can do. Keep in mind as well that it's three spores on most targets, tripling their effective damage output, and they can continually grow. The only other person that can do that is Gara, IIRC, and the AoE of that damage is diminutive in comparison.

Most AoEs are bursts, and those that aren't either cannot move and thus cover way less space, or they do move, but need to be moved manually. Saryn's spores spread incredibly aggressively and aren't dependent on a damage oriented build. This leaves Saryn still as one of the least active frames. 

There's no frame that can kill a whole map, but this is a terminology thing. Yes, Saryn isn't the only one that can wipe a -cell- (Gara, Volt, Equinox), but Saryn IS the only one that is proficient at wiping a -map-.

There are frames that outperform her for cell-wiping, but not map-wiping. And those that do outperform her in some way usually also have heavier drawbacks when trying to take this role. Gara, for example, has to hold her vitrify for a fairly lengthy time to be able to compete and has a specific range bracket, leaving enemies close by just CC'd, not killed. Revenant cannot fire upwards, Equinox cannot tap into her defenses while using this, also has a lengthy cast time and has a hard cut-off for effectiveness. 

While I definitely agree that Saryn isn't uniquely a problem, I disagree that she isn't a problem.

so i play Saryn for a long time now... you're right spores do not expire. but again: the damage they do isn't that much. so yeah at some point the enemy will die... maybe after a few seconds or after some minutes depending on his health and so on. how long does any of the other need to kill this enemy?

and please let me know how a Saryn can kill a whole Sabotage Map. Or a Assasination Map. Or whatever you like and is not a minimap like Defense (which also can whiped by others).

would love to see these mystical build everyone talks about.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Pretty much everything else that involves killing or defending she is a top pick while also turning it all into a passive spectate mode for the rest in her group.

I've just... never experienced this. (not that I'd be mad if it did happen.. because, objective complete!) I mean, even playing with a friend who also decided to try out Saryn with me, we were able to play together just fine. It took a little "energy pressure" off of me to have someone else there, and we had plenty to kill for ourselves. And if 2 Saryns with very nice builds, could play together at the same time, I don't see 1 Saryn ruining the game for 3 other people... it's never happened to me. I've always been able to go hunt down some enemies to kill, or let them take over all the killing just fine on their own while I took a detour to hunt down some ayatan treasure or something.

To me, it all sounds like a bunch of exaggeration to get a perfectly fine frame nerfed.

[8faiNt]

1 minute ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

the damage they do isn't that much.

Do you know what '' scaling '' means?

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

There just isnt a mission where Saryn is lacking aside from survival where her long range screws up life support drops due to scattering them all over the place. Pretty much everything else that involves killing or defending she is a top pick while also turning it all into a passive spectate mode for the rest in her group.

Go try to kill a lich with Saryn... >.> I spent my first L5 lich run getting 1HKOd by bombards and stunlocked to death by scorpion/Nox combos, and I have a pretty tanky build (Vitality+Physique+Hunter Adrenaline+steel fiber+regenerative molt)

How about spy, where she has nothing to contribute to the game mode and her spores can be a huge liability if they accidentally spread to an enemy or sensor drone inside the vault?

How about rescue where her spores easily tip off the wardens?

Survival as you mentioned, where she fudges up life support drops?

How about arbitrations where the drones leave her no way to contribute as a frame because Molt is her only decent buff?

Saryn is a nice frame, but don't make her out to be some omnipotent God. Shes a tool that's really good for certain things but "There just isnt a mission where Saryn is lacking" is a straight up lie.

Wukong, Chroma, Limbo, Equinox, Mirage and numerous other frames have *much* better mission coverage than she does.

I really don't understand why she's the poster child of "nerf the nuke frames" because she's not even particularly good as a nuke frame outside ESO...

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by (NSW)Sniperfox47

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb 8faiNt:

Do you know what '' scaling '' means?

do you know that it does not scale infinitely?

Edited December 11, 2019 by (PS4)NewcastleDisease
typo

[alseltas]

The problem is ESO system, not Saryn. If they remove the ability cool time, I’m sure some other frames compete and even outperform her. In normal missions, Saryn is just an average frame. 

[8faiNt]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)NewcastleDisease said:

do you know that is does not scale infinity?

Scales enough to kill the enemy in seconds. Thats pretty powerful you either dont actually play saryn to know this or you actually have no idea or you are straight bsing here.

It is the reason why I suggested this If she starts killing too fast with her spores, her power level takes a breath, slows down, scales again and starts killing and that repeats.

I just think you're trolling or you actually dont know how powerful saryn is with big numbers on her spores

Edited December 11, 2019 by 8faiNt

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

vor 1 Minute schrieb 8faiNt:

Scales enough to kill the enemy in seconds. Thats pretty powerful you either dont actually play saryn to know this or you actually have no idea or you are straight bsing here.

It is the reason why I suggested this If she starts killing too fast with her spores her power level takes a breath, slows down, scales again and starts killing and that repeats.

I just think you're trolling or you actually dont know how saryn powerful saryn is with big numbers on her spores

again: show me these mysterious build where a Saryn can kill a whole (not tiny) map in seconds with higher lvl enemies.

don't speak about what you think: prove it. post the build, calculate the max damage you can do with it.

i think you have absolute no idea what you are talking about.

[Xepthrichros]

On 2019-12-10 at 6:18 PM, Hellmaker2004 said:

Plenty of frames have "infinite" scaling, there is a cap but it is unrealistic high to the point we may call it infinite especialy with how her decay work compared to growth, also. Saryn is in fact one of those who have the slowest scaling out of the frames that have a scaling mechanic.

She has ((2 X Power Strenght) X '1 to 7') Per second in Scaling. At base, that is at peak infested targets, 14 Damage per second per spore. Hardly what one would consider high especialy if you look at other frames with scaling.

Somewhere else on these feedback forums: Squishy frames have no place in future content

And similar thireads concerning damage abilities not doing enough damage, exalted weapons being not exalted enough etc. etc. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Xepthrichros

[SneakyErvin]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

I've just... never experienced this. (not that I'd be mad if it did happen.. because, objective complete!) I mean, even playing with a friend who also decided to try out Saryn with me, we were able to play together just fine. It took a little "energy pressure" off of me to have someone else there, and we had plenty to kill for ourselves. And if 2 Saryns with very nice builds, could play together at the same time, I don't see 1 Saryn ruining the game for 3 other people... it's never happened to me. I've always been able to go hunt down some enemies to kill, or let them take over all the killing just fine on their own while I took a detour to hunt down some ayatan treasure or something.

To me, it all sounds like a bunch of exaggeration to get a perfectly fine frame nerfed.

Those arent exaggerations, it is the reason I stopped playing her in 99% of the content. Also, two Saryn working together isnt even a thing, unless you have some very short ranged specs so you can share the map. All that two Saryn does for eachother is one stealing kills and the other doing nothing, since they cannot stack their abilities. You also kinda prove the point by saying "go hunt down some enemies". That means you often need to head out well beyond what should be needed in order to contribute even the slightest since you most likely have a 50m range Saryn present when a Saryn is present.

6 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Go try to kill a lich with Saryn... >.> I spent my first L5 lich run getting 1HKOd by bombards and stunlocked to death by scorpion/Nox combos, and I have a pretty tanky build (Vitality+Physique+Hunter Adrenaline+steel fiber+regenerative molt)

How about spy, where she has nothing to contribute to the game mode and her spores can be a huge liability if they accidentally spread to an enemy or sensor drone inside the vault?

How about rescue where her spores easily tip off the wardens?

Survival as you mentioned, where she fudges up life support drops?

How about arbitrations where the drones leave her no way to contribute as a frame because Molt is her only buff?

Saryn is a nice frame, but don't make her out to be some omnipotent God. Shes a tool that's really good for certain things but "There just isnt a mission where Saryn is lacking" is a straight up lie.

Wukong, Chroma, Limbo, Equinox, Mirage and numerous other frames have *much* better mission coverage than she does.

I really don't understand why she's the poster child of "nerf the nuke frames" because she's not even particularly good as a nuke frame outside ESO...

 

Why waste so much on survival and why on earth use Physique? That health bonus wont help you survive a damn thing. Vitality is enough to keep her alive, including in Lich mission. Though I wouldnt bring her there due to the possibility of radiation procs and killing everyone there. Rev is my choice for Liches because he is idiot proof i.e Mesmer Skin protects against irradiated idiot players.

Last I checked, spy and rescue arent about killing or defending, maybe read what I said before bringing up mission examples. And yes as I said, survival is a S#&$ mode for Saryn, well no not for the Saryn, but for everyone there that actually understand the objective and brings a proper frames. Survival is another example of where she is a bad choice given how her kit works and how much she can cover. Which is another good reason to nerf her so she can contribute in survival aswell without being a hindrance to the group.

Like for all frames, drones stop abilites. She still kills everything that doesnt have a drone near it, so also has a far easier time picking of the drone since it will come with far fewer mobs attached to it that wanna kill you.

Also, if you wanna use "quotes", please do quote exaclty what is said and not some out of context crap. I said "There just isnt a mission where Saryn is lacking aside from survival" followed by "Pretty much everything else that involves killing or defending she is a top pick". Those two together bring actual context. Which you obviously ignored when you brought up rescue and spy. So she doesnt have an actual drawback because there is nothing she is bad at in missions that requires killing or defending. Even in rescue she'd be a top pick because everything on the star chart is insta killed, including wardens which means quick and guaranteed specter drops. And in sortie missions the alarm is already sounded.

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

11 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Those arent exaggerations, it is the reason I stopped playing her in 99% of the content. Also, two Saryn working together isnt even a thing, unless you have some very short ranged specs so you can share the map. All that two Saryn does for eachother is one stealing kills and the other doing nothing, since they cannot stack their abilities. You also kinda prove the point by saying "go hunt down some enemies". That means you often need to head out well beyond what should be needed in order to contribute even the slightest since you most likely have a 50m range Saryn present when a Saryn is present.

Why waste so much on survival and why on earth use Physique? That health bonus wont help you survive a damn thing. Vitality is enough to keep her alive, including in Lich mission. Though I wouldnt bring her there due to the possibility of radiation procs and killing everyone there. Rev is my choice for Liches because he is idiot proof i.e Mesmer Skin protects against irradiated idiot players.

Clearly not a switch player since you're talking about other players. I have encountered precisely one other player in my time lich hunting. I mostly play Solo so Physique is useful for that extra half second of survival if I get hit by a scorpion's drag or teleport/throw comboed by the lich. What else would I equip? A single Corrosive Projection? 

11 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Last I checked, spy and rescue arent about killing or defending, maybe read what I said before bringing up mission examples. And yes as I said, survival is a S#&$ mode for Saryn, well no not for the Saryn, but for everyone there that actually understand the objective and brings a proper frames. Survival is another example of where she is a bad choice given how her kit works and how much she can cover. Which is another good reason to nerf her so she can contribute in survival aswell without being a hindrance to the group.

You stated those as two sentences, two complete thoughts. You stated A) that there is not a single mission type other than survival that she's bad at and B) that pretty much anything killing or defending related she's good at. You stating B doesn't prevent A from being factually false.

11 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Like for all frames, drones stop abilites. She still kills everything that doesnt have a drone near it, so also has a far easier time picking of the drone since it will come with far fewer mobs attached to it that wanna kill you.

Like all frames? You mean like all of the other frames that have team buffs and are still beneficial despite the drones like Ivara, Octavia, Rhino, etc.

Or do you mean like all the other frames that have powerful self buffs that make them essentially invincible so they can run in and destroy enemies point blank without risk like Wukong, Inaros, Nezha, etc?

How exactly is she comparable to either of those groups?

11 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Also, if you wanna use "quotes", please do quote exaclty what is said and not some out of context crap. I said "There just isnt a mission where Saryn is lacking aside from survival" followed by "Pretty much everything else that involves killing or defending she is a top pick". Those two together bring actual context. Which you obviously ignored when you brought up rescue and spy. So she doesnt have an actual drawback because there is nothing she is bad at in missions that requires killing or defending. Even in rescue she'd be a top pick because everything on the star chart is insta killed, including wardens which means quick and guaranteed specter drops. And in sortie missions the alarm is already sounded.

Those were two seperate sentences. Two complete thoughts. If the second was about the first, tie them together, don't make them independent and then get upset at others for treating them as independent, especially when the second statement is a subset of the first that doesn't disagree with or change it in any way.

I'm not sure how you're building, but when there are just a few number of enemies my spores take a good 10-15 seconds to ramp up and kill lvl 20+ enemies, so that's plenty of time to sound the alarm. I could probably bumrush to the middle and drop a Miasma but there's a pretty good chance at least one of the wardens would be outside it and still drop the alarm. I use the standard ESO solo build (~200ish range, ~120ish strength, ~85ish duration, ~100ish efficiency) and dropping any of the range from her for additional power strength in non-ESO just feels miserable because of how much further apart the enemies are.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Those arent exaggerations, it is the reason I stopped playing her in 99% of the content. Also, two Saryn working together isnt even a thing, unless you have some very short ranged specs so you can share the map. All that two Saryn does for eachother is one stealing kills and the other doing nothing, since they cannot stack their abilities. You also kinda prove the point by saying "go hunt down some enemies". That means you often need to head out well beyond what should be needed in order to contribute even the slightest since you most likely have a 50m range Saryn present when a Saryn is present.

Cooperating doesn't mean stepping on each others' toes. Killing the other Saryn's spore-infected enemies spreads their spores. I did this both with my Miasma and normal weapon kills, spreading the plague. My friend doesn't know the locations of Ayatans very well, so my spotting them and pointing them out is a major plus for him. He likes killing things, I like assisting. We cooperated in a coop game... amazing. We didn't compete for "our kills"... the enemies were enemies, and we both worked together to take them down.

As for hunting down some enemies... some are just out of reach of the clouds of spores, hidden away in little rooms or off the beaten path, when I take a side path toward hidden chests, while my friend blazed along the main trail. Anyway... I've never experienced a problem cooperating with Saryns in any group play I've engaged in with them. Often, because I move around so quickly, I'm "supposedly" "stealing" kills from other people with melee-only combat, not even engaging with a warframe's offensive abilities. Maybe these super-saryns that can 100% block other people's playing of the game, are also combining their leet skills with their warframe's innate abilities to do what they're designed to do. (I've just never met a super-saryn to confirm)

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by (PS4)AyinDygra
Super-Saryn... Super Saiyan... they both take forever to increase their power levels (spore levels) to deal their big damage. I made a funny.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Clearly not a switch player since you're talking about other players. I have encountered precisely one other player in my time lich hunting. I mostly play Solo so Physique is useful for that extra half second of survival if I get hit by a scorpion's drag or teleport/throw comboed by the lich. What else would I equip? A single Corrosive Projection? 

You stated those as two sentences, two complete thoughts. You stated A) that there is not a single mission type other than survival that she's bad at and B) that pretty much anything killing or defending related she's good at. You stating B doesn't prevent A from being factually false.

Like all frames? You mean like all of the other frames that have team buffs and are still beneficial despite the drones like Ivara, Octavia, Rhino, etc.

Or do you mean like all the other frames that have powerful self buffs that make them essentially invincible so they can run in and destroy enemies point blank without risk like Wukong, Inaros, Nezha, etc?

How exactly is she comparable to either of those groups?

Those were two seperate sentences. Two complete thoughts. If the second was about the first, tie them together, don't make them independent and then get upset at others for treating them as independent, especially when the second statement is a subset of the first that doesn't disagree with or change it in any way.

I'm not sure how you're building, but when there are just a few number of enemies my spores take a good 10-15 seconds to ramp up and kill lvl 20+ enemies, so that's plenty of time to sound the alarm. I could probably bumrush to the middle and drop a Miasma but there's a pretty good chance at least one of the wardens would be outside it and still drop the alarm. I use the standard ESO solo build (~200ish range, ~120ish strength, ~85ish duration, ~100ish efficiency) and dropping any of the range from her for additional power strength in non-ESO just feels miserable because of how much further apart the enemies are.

Then obviously cant grasp the problem that is Saryn, since it is hard if you mostly play solo.

Yes, two sentences following eachother, not in two widely different parts of the post nor the specific paragraph. One sentence specifically touches survival, the other touches the rest.

Ivara is horrible and so is Octavia for arbitrations when we focus on drones. Both require the same as Saryn i.e shooting the damn floating bot to kill it. Rhino may have beneficial buffs, but that doesnt mean he is less restricted by drones than anyone else. He doesnt really help in killing aside from buffing, which is pointless when it comes to drones because they die in one shot/melee hit eitherway. It is pointless to "run in" when you have a weapon that covers an area, something Saryn can use too. It still doesnt change that she isnt worse off than anyone else because she has less enemies to handle when the drones do show up since she has a 50m+ area of effect that kills everything that isnt tied to a drone on spawn.

Again, those were sentences following eachother directly.

I build Saryn for range and efficiency with umbra vit+int to keep strength around 100% and buffing the health slightly more than a single regular vitality. So stats are duration 105%, efficinecy 175%, range 260% iirc and then strength 105% or 110% cant really remember which, it is around the 100 mark atleast. Dont forget you can stack spores and auto detonate them with lash for full spread. That is if you are hellbent on using her skills all the time instead of approaching the mission more carefully like in rescue incase you are there for specters. My point is that she has no actual drawback outside of survival and in survival it highly depends on the group.

1 hour ago, (PS4)AyinDygra said:

Cooperating doesn't mean stepping on each others' toes. Killing the other Saryn's spore-infected enemies spreads their spores. I did this both with my Miasma and normal weapon kills, spreading the plague. My friend doesn't know the locations of Ayatans very well, so my spotting them and pointing them out is a major plus for him. He likes killing things, I like assisting. We cooperated in a coop game... amazing. We didn't compete for "our kills"... the enemies were enemies, and we both worked together to take them down.

As for hunting down some enemies... some are just out of reach of the clouds of spores, hidden away in little rooms or off the beaten path, when I take a side path toward hidden chests, while my friend blazed along the main trail. Anyway... I've never experienced a problem cooperating with Saryns in any group play I've engaged in with them. Often, because I move around so quickly, I'm "supposedly" "stealing" kills from other people with melee-only combat, not even engaging with a warframe's offensive abilities. Maybe these super-saryns that can 100% block other people's playing of the game, are also combining their leet skills with their warframe's innate abilities to do what they're designed to do. (I've just never met a super-saryn to confirm)

It is great you can share with a friend, that is however not a scenario that happens in pugs or even a premade where you dont actively communicate. In those a Saryn will step on another Saryn's toes if built correctly because either will cover the whole map and leave no room for the other. It comes down to who spreads first, that is all there is to it, after that the other Saryn is a fancy paperweight with a gun. And we are talking about the skill kit here, not the part that a Saryn can chose to not use the skills. A Saryn played for the purpose Saryn is designed it will end in her stealing the kills in a 50m+ area around her locations. Even in moving missions like exterminate the spores will kill 50m ahead of you as soon as you get a wee few spores rolling, after that it all comes down to doing some jump casts with miasma to keep momentum forward and spores up.

There is also nothing super with those Saryn's, they are 2 button wonders, nothing less, nothing more. She is just that simple.

[(PSN)The1stAzrael]

7 hours ago, BlackVortex said:

apparently those 80% disagree, don't care and are enjoying themselves playing those frames

If the majority of your game's population is only using the same three or four frames then you can be absolutely sure there is an underlying problem there. What are the odds that "80%" of the population will universally enjoy the same playstyle presented by those frames? Slim to none. Because not everyone favours or cares about getting the biggest numbers, or clearing the room the fastest. If I were a game dev, you can bet I'd want to know WHY a majority of the population was ignoring the thirty-nine or forty other frames, that I invested time and resources into developing, in favour of these three older ones.

I enjoy playing Capacitance Volt, but at the end of the day, I'll still pick Nyx or Banshee when I'm looking at a mission where the frame choice doesn't particularly matter. Why? Because jumping into the air and pressing four isn't a fun way to play, for me.

...And before I take ANYTHING you say seriously, I'm going to need some numbers actually showing that "80%" of the game enjoys playing nuke frames.

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

I honestly miss the old tanky Saryn the most. I don't even get why people want to play something as OP as Saryn, because her spore thing has always and will always be immensely boring for me. Oh I cast spore, I shoot the spore, I cast another spore later after it expires.. yawn. Seriously, it'd be better if they just took a page and made her into the old vicious melee fanatic frame she used to be and beefed up her survivability a ton. I really miss going into the fray and just going crazy with melee like in the old days.

Now since she's a total glass cannon without her regen molt, it's just not fun to play her at all. 

[SpringRocker]

10 hours ago, Azrael_V said:

Not sure how that improves Saryn in any way. When you imply that Saryn is clearing maps I have to assume you're talking about trash mobs which are cleared easily by any AOE abilities. I recently made a Kuva Lich with Saryn as the progenitor. Got the Lich up to Level 5 and I can tell you she is not OP by any stretch. Alot of these complaining and nerf threads continuously omit the mission levels they are using as examples. Seriously disingenuous if you ask me. In any case Saryn is mostly used in ESO. Why people continue to complain about that without addressing that ESO itself has major flaws is beyond me. 

Wait, wait... Wait...

Are you really trying to say she's not op because she doesn't oneshot level 5 liches? She can clear maps with enemies in sorties over level 100 no matter the type (from troopers to Bombards), but she's not op because she can't oneshot a level 5 lich?

Guy, I think you're way off the mark. Just because Saryn doesn't insta-kill liches at level 5 doesn't mean she's not overpowered.

[(NSW)Sniperfox47]

18 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Wait, wait... Wait...

Are you really trying to say she's not op because she doesn't oneshot level 5 liches? She can clear maps with enemies in sorties over level 100 no matter the type (from troopers to Bombards), but she's not op because she can't oneshot a level 5 lich?

Guy, I think you're way off the mark. Just because Saryn doesn't insta-kill liches at level 5 doesn't mean she's not overpowered.

Not the person who you're replying to, but I think you're making massive assumptions about their argument. Take Saryn, go do a level 5 lich. Try it. Solo it. It's miserable. Not because of the inability to "1 shot the lich" but because you die nigh instantly from something breathing on you wrong and get gibbed yourself randomly by nox-scorpion combos, lich throws, random bombard missiles, etc. since enemies entirely ignore your Molt in many cases.

In terms of killing with her spores? It's okayish until you hit a heavy and then you're waiting for it to kill a Nox, Bombard, or Gunner for a good 1-2 minutes.

 

If your argument is that she's OP because she can kill a Nox in 2 minutes by popping her 1, I think your argument is dumb because you can kill a Nox a lot faster just using weapons.

Saryn can kill a map of Level 100 enemies? Sure, if your condition for clear means sit and hide for 2-3 minutes while she waits for them to die off and hope that her damage doesn't decay.

You can kill the map faster using the post-nerf Atterax at that point...

Edited December 11, 2019 by (NSW)Sniperfox47

[SpringRocker]

48 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:

Not the person who you're replying to, but I think you're making massive assumptions about their argument. Take Saryn, go do a level 5 lich. Try it. Solo it. It's miserable. Not because of the inability to "1 shot the lich" but because you die nigh instantly from something breathing on you wrong and get gibbed yourself randomly by nox-scorpion combos, lich throws, random bombard missiles, etc. since enemies entirely ignore your Molt in many cases.

In terms of killing with her spores? It's okayish until you hit a heavy and then you're waiting for it to kill a Nox, Bombard, or Gunner for a good 1-2 minutes.

 

If your argument is that she's OP because she can kill a Nox in 2 minutes by popping her 1, I think your argument is dumb because you can kill a Nox a lot faster just using weapons.

Saryn can kill a map of Level 100 enemies? Sure, if your condition for clear means sit and hide for 2-3 minutes while she waits for them to die off and hope that her damage doesn't decay.

You can kill the map faster using the post-nerf Atterax at that point...

Using #1 to kill and clear? That's not the way Saryn works, you press #1, shoot, then #4, and with the right build you clear the map as long as enemies are close enough to eachother (which again, is using the right build).

She doesn't take "2 minutes" to kill a Nox, she spores the first thing she sees and presses 4 killing the Nox before anyone sees it.

EDIT: Just because she struggles to kill a level 5 lich doesn't mean she's fine. Just about everyone struggles the same.

Edited December 11, 2019 by SpringRocker

[Isokaze_BestKaze]

il y a 41 minutes, (NSW)Sniperfox47 a dit :

Not the person who you're replying to, but I think you're making massive assumptions about their argument. Take Saryn, go do a level 5 lich. Try it. Solo it. It's miserable. Not because of the inability to "1 shot the lich" but because you die nigh instantly from something breathing on you wrong and get gibbed yourself randomly by nox-scorpion combos, lich throws, random bombard missiles, etc. since enemies entirely ignore your Molt in many cases.

In terms of killing with her spores? It's okayish until you hit a heavy and then you're waiting for it to kill a Nox, Bombard, or Gunner for a good 1-2 minutes.

 

If your argument is that she's OP because she can kill a Nox in 2 minutes by popping her 1, I think your argument is dumb because you can kill a Nox a lot faster just using weapons.

Saryn can kill a map of Level 100 enemies? Sure, if your condition for clear means sit and hide for 2-3 minutes while she waits for them to die off and hope that her damage doesn't decay.

You can kill the map faster using the post-nerf Atterax at that point...

What is this nonsense.

So your argument for Saryn being "ok" is that she struggle to deal with the whole map against CC immune enemies ?

So I guess any frame besides Octavia and Chroma are bad then.

[Azrael_V]

11 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Wait, wait... Wait...

Are you really trying to say she's not op because she doesn't oneshot level 5 liches? She can clear maps with enemies in sorties over level 100 no matter the type (from troopers to Bombards), but she's not op because she can't oneshot a level 5 lich?

Guy, I think you're way off the mark. Just because Saryn doesn't insta-kill liches at level 5 doesn't mean she's not overpowered.

Lol but based on all the exaggeration on these nerf Saryn threads I would think that she should be able to. Any frame wrecks low to mid level missions but you guys harping on about Saryn ignoring that simple fact. Why is there no harping on ESO is my question. And you're the second person to ignore that part of my post.