Regarding Pablo's recent stream about saryn

[BDMblue]

I look at posts and just wonder what builds your playing this frame with? 

Problems tanking 100s. Infecting 3-15 not just the whole map? Can’t kill heavy in less then 2 seconds? 

So problem is when you build badly on any frame they seem fine. When you know what your doing you can understand problems it has. Where maybe it might be too strong. 

I don’t know new ember that well. If people are saying it’s op and needs to be looked at I’m not going to bring my crappy ideas from a poorly modded frame to say it’s fine. 

[BlachWolf]

12 hours ago, Gurpgork said:

Funny thing about the 'make tougher content' argument: You can't make any content difficult if you've already given players the means to completely violate the core mechanics of the game. 

This.

[BlackVortex]

16 hours ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said:

If the majority of your game's population is only using the same three or four frames then you can be absolutely sure there is an underlying problem there. What are the odds that "80%" of the population will universally enjoy the same playstyle presented by those frames? Slim to none. Because not everyone favours or cares about getting the biggest numbers, or clearing the room the fastest. If I were a game dev, you can bet I'd want to know WHY a majority of the population was ignoring the thirty-nine or forty other frames, that I invested time and resources into developing, in favour of these three older ones.

I enjoy playing Capacitance Volt, but at the end of the day, I'll still pick Nyx or Banshee when I'm looking at a mission where the frame choice doesn't particularly matter. Why? Because jumping into the air and pressing four isn't a fun way to play, for me.

...And before I take ANYTHING you say seriously, I'm going to need some numbers actually showing that "80%" of the game enjoys playing nuke frames.

it's only a problem if you make it one, I am perfectly happy with those overpower and overused frames and so are the 80% that play them

if you feel there is a problem and DE agrees, then perhaps they should make the other frames crazy overpowered as well so we can enjoy playing those too

but...

that will never happen, people will always shift to the frames that is either the most fun to play or the most efficient to play with

breaking and nerfing frames is only going to piss off those 80% that play them for those reasons

Edited December 12, 2019 by BlackVortex

[SneakyErvin]

5 hours ago, BDMblue said:

I look at posts and just wonder what builds your playing this frame with? 

Problems tanking 100s. Infecting 3-15 not just the whole map? Can’t kill heavy in less then 2 seconds? 

So problem is when you build badly on any frame they seem fine. When you know what your doing you can understand problems it has. Where maybe it might be too strong. 

I don’t know new ember that well. If people are saying it’s op and needs to be looked at I’m not going to bring my crappy ideas from a poorly modded frame to say it’s fine. 

The bolded part also got me wondering "how the #*!% do you people play/build her?" when I read them spread out across this thread.

And with Saryn you dont really need to build her tanky if your game is up to snuff. You can dodge alot of crap with her #2 and give you breathing room. Plus the people saying they have problems tanking level 100 enemies i.e around Lich rank 5 levels, then they obviously should rethink their build and tactic. They should start to question why it is that the mobs attack them in the first place, when in reality they should be dead several rooms away from you already. In lich missions the only thing they should worry about is the lich, since everything else should keep dying to spores and miasma.

[Bregastor]

Imo nerfing and ruining things in a game that is in no way competitive and PvE is the most retarded things someone can ever suggest. 

The entire point of the game is to have different frame to pick for different situation. If you nerf Saryn, another frame will take the meta place and all the whiners will be like "bohooo X frames is soloing ESO like old saryn pls nerf it". And so the next frame will be nerfed ending up ruining frame after frame cause people need to ruin others fun. 

You are not playing WoW, farming a frame takes like what? 20 min? And if you don't like it, well that is not a reason to nerf it. 

Play whatever you find fun and that is it. On the other hand if you care about being efficient asking for nerf is no sense because you will end up with another meta frame. 

In a game like warframe the only way everyone will have fun is by buffing bad frames not by destroying working ones. 

 

 

[Violet_Xe]

1 hour ago, BlackVortex said:

it's only a problem if you make it one, I am perfectly happy with those overpower and overused frames and so are the 80% that play them

if you feel there is a problem and DE agrees, then perhaps they should make the other frames crazy overpowered as well so we can enjoy playing those too

but...

that will never happen, people will always shift to the frames that is either the most fun to play or the most efficient to play with

breaking and nerfing frames is only going to piss off those 80% that play them for those reasons

   It's not a problem for you, but it is a problem for people like me who want what's best for the game or for DE allowing the game to live longer. This isn't personal for some of us, it's a professional issue.

   No there is a problem with 80% of the population playing a handful of frames. It's obviously nowhere near as bad as 50% of the game using one gun, but it's still an issue if 4 frames make up a good portion of playtime with a roster of 42 frames. Maybe not for you, but it is for DE. For us it's just part of the game and that's all well and good, cool shiz we enjoy what we enjoy. But we the players will neglect content which DE has created. DE wants you to play with these other frames, weapons, and mods. They don't want anything to be fodder.

   This being said "Breaking and Nerfing" or "Buffing and Reworking" frames is not the way to go about this specific situation. What we need are fixes to the game as a whole, not simple reworks and tweaks to numbers which end up damaging the community and game overall.

[Urlan]

8 minutes ago, Violet_Xe said:

   It's not a problem for you, but it is a problem for people like me who want what's best for the game or for DE allowing the game to live longer. This isn't personal for some of us, it's a professional issue.

   No there is a problem with 80% of the population playing a handful of frames. It's obviously nowhere near as bad as 50% of the game using one gun, but it's still an issue if 4 frames make up a good portion of playtime with a roster of 42 frames. Maybe not for you, but it is for DE. For us it's just part of the game and that's all well and good, cool shiz we enjoy what we enjoy. But we the players will neglect content which DE has created. DE wants you to play with these other frames, weapons, and mods. They don't want anything to be fodder.

   This being said "Breaking and Nerfing" or "Buffing and Reworking" frames is not the way to go about this specific situation. What we need are fixes to the game as a whole, not simple reworks and tweaks to numbers which end up damaging the community and game overall.

Wouldn't that depend on in what way you are checking for 80% usage? For instance, any player that has gotten a 27 mastery rank is going to have used most every warframe and contribute to usage overall. If a warframe is only being used it calls more into what is the situation around that usage, what is the quality of the alternatives, and in what specific situation are we narrowing down on to get this usage range.

[Violet_Xe]

2 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Wouldn't that depend on in what way you are checking for 80% usage? For instance, any player that has gotten a 27 mastery rank is going to have used most every warframe and contribute to usage overall. If a warframe is only being used it calls more into what is the situation around that usage, what is the quality of the alternatives, and in what specific situation are we narrowing down on to get this usage range.

   Yeah pretty much, but the issue is players only care about a handful of missions and because of that only certain frames are called for. I believe the chart shown was showcasing play rate of all warframes in general. Not mission specific. That data is primarily going to be composed of parts of the game players play frequently in. Examples being dark sectors, defense, survival, ESO, index, etc etc. The majority of these areas lend themselves to a set number of frames. Naturally CC and support warframes have been left in the dust because they can't help much in these popular mission types.
   Because of this we see a stark difference in the usage of frames across the board when there shouldn't be. General usage data should show the majority of the frames being used about equally with a few outliers at lower playrates. Instead we have the majority being used less and a few outliers being used more. If Farming, Horde Destroying, and Tanking are demanded from most then by default frames that explicitly focus on that will rise to the top.
   But if they fix the game, like for example if enemy scaling was fixed, then tanking wouldn't be seen as necessary for a frame's success in the eyes of average players. This would result in less players playing tanks and more players playing squishy or durable frames instead of unkillable or invisible frames. In other words less players would play Inaros and wukong over others because tanking is less needed.

   Unless I completely missed the point of your post. it's not uncommon for me, sorry if I didn't.

[OmegaVoid]

15 hours ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

Hellenism is to take something good and to confuse and corrupt it.

Er, no. Hellenism/Hellenisation is "the historical spread of ancient Greek culture, religion, and, to a lesser extent, language over foreign peoples conquered by Greeks or brought into their sphere of influence, particularly during the Hellenistic period" (quote Wikipedia; you'll find similar definitions in any dictionary). 

Apart from the existence of a weapon called the Corinth, I'm not spotting much of this in Warframe. 🤔

[(PSN)Siramezz]

Which i dont think they will

 

But if does happen, why not:

Nerf Equinox for infinite scaling dmg nuke
Nerf Mesa's peacekeeper cuz its strong
Nerf Octavia's Mallet for its infinite scaling
Nerf Volt's Discharge for the high dmg + stun cc
Nerf Ember's inferno, despite being reworked, for being too good
Nerf Ash's bladestorm for its infinite slash scaling
Nerf Excalibur's exalted blade cuz its op
Nerf Chroma's vex armor for being too op buffing weapons
Nerf Gauss' redline for being too good at killing everything fast
Nerf Frost for being too good at defending objectives
Nerf Loki/Ivara for being too good at invisibility
Nerf Nekros for being too good at getting double loot
Nerf Trinity for being too good at supporting the group
Nerf Nova for being too good at slowing/speeding down/up the mission
and etc..

 

NERF EVERYTHING AND REMOVE THE FUN IN THE GAME!

The point im trying to make here is that when you ask for these stupid nerfs, not only is it going to take away the fun, it will also make the game lose players at a faster rate due to the nerfs and unable to complete the mission faster.

 

I WILL not reply to those who has no braincells and decide to give a invalid comments. Peace out.

 

If you're triggered, your fault, not mine.

Edited December 12, 2019 by (PS4)Siramezz

[Klaleara]

Requests to make the game more difficult to make a single frame less OP.  Inadvertently causes 10+ other frames to become useless, or more useless.

[OmegaVoid]

15 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

Currently Saryn is pretty much the only choice for SO and ESO. [...] Having a single Warframe be the only viable option

"Only viable option" is stretching it. Volt, Equinox and Mesa spring immediately to mind as viable. Saryn makes it a bit easier, and in a farming game it's not surprising that makes her ubiquitous, especially when in pub you'll often as not lose half the squad after ~Zone 3 'cos they're done leveling.

11 hours ago, Morticoccus said:

She also isn't very engaging in SO; you press one, shoot some dudes occasionally, and then just hide in a corner.

Maybe in SO, idk... but in ESO I see plenty of enemies running around with Spores on them. Spores alone won't kill fast enough. It's only when followed up with Miasma that the whole tile dissolves.

[Loza03]

[Aldain]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

NERF EVERYTHING AND REMOVE THE FUN IN THE GAME!

Sounds like a plan to me.

Not even joking, if the idea of fun has devolved to "Kill everything in a tile set in seconds" I say nerf it all to the ground and start over.

[Loza03]

Now that I'm in, let's run through.

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Equinox for infinite scaling dmg nuke

Infinite scaling, good range and no counter for enemies = no real drawback. Yes, deserves a significant nerf.

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Mesa's peacekeeper cuz its strong

Requires a drawback, but could easily be fixed with buffs to enemies (specifically, certain enemies being able to redirect her firepower).

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Octavia's Mallet for its infinite scaling

See equinox. Infinite scaling is terrible for design.

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Volt's Discharge for the high dmg + stun cc

Damage + CC is a dangerous combination, as it basically grants two layers of turning off enemies. Giving it a resource (which is also thematic) to reduce spammability might work.

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Ember's inferno, despite being reworked, for being too good

Not experienced enough with this one to call judgement.

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Ash's bladestorm for its infinite slash scaling

It doesn't actually have infinite scaling, since its damage is relatively low. Plus it requires more input than most.

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Excalibur's exalted blade cuz its op

Waves damage its theme (it's a sword) anyway, I'd move them exclusively to heavy attack... and then actually buff everything else because it'd then have very short range, thus giving it a considerable drawback.

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Chroma's vex armor for being too op buffing weapons

Already has been.

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Gauss' redline for being too good at killing everything fast

Generally speaking, it's quite difficult to make a weapon buff OP if the weapons that are getting buffed are balanced. Most weapons still have their drawbacks, even with the considerable buffs redline grants.

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Frost for being too good at defending objectives

He's vulnerable to melee enemies, so he has a considerable drawback and can't simply turn off the fail state as many abilities can.

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Loki/Ivara for being too good at invisibility

Yes, because invisibility basically involves turning off enemies ability to interact with you, thereby removing all actual gameplay.

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Nekros for being too good at getting double loot

I am still annoyed they un-nerfed this, because the game has way too many hyperinflation issues already.

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Trinity for being too good at supporting the group

Support is only as good as the people they're supporting, and thus innately have a weakness. Also, Trinity has almost no role in the current game due to how many options players have to support themselves.

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Nova for being too good at slowing/speeding down/up the mission

Unlike most CC frames, Nova doesn't turn them off, she only soft CC's them, still giving them a chance and still maintaining interaction.

 

Something being overpowered means it is damaging the game in some way, usually by eliminating a core element of the gameplay loop. And despite what you might want to suggest, a gameplay loop is where most of the fun happens. 

[Blade_Wolf_16]

il y a 6 minutes, Aldain a dit :

Sounds like a plan to me.

Not even joking, if the idea of fun has devolved to "Kill everything in a tile set in seconds" I say nerf it all to the ground and start over.

After what Ubisoft did to For Honor (for instance), I must agree. Powercreep has gone out of hand for way too long and now the whole game is just trivialized by most Warframes/Weapons/etc.

[(XBOX)WolfKingLeo]

If yall saw the the first post talking about the post about the Saryn nerf, Pablo said himself the he was just playing around and not nerfing Saryn atm

Edited December 12, 2019 by (XB1)WolfKingLeo

[BiancaRoughfin]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

-Snip-

Another crybaby "Dont nerf my OPness Press1ToWinFrame!" topic.

19 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Equinox for infinite scaling dmg nuke
Nerf Mesa's peacekeeper cuz its strong
Nerf Octavia's Mallet for its infinite scaling
Nerf Volt's Discharge for the high dmg + stun cc
Nerf Ember's inferno, despite being reworked, for being too good
Nerf Ash's bladestorm for its infinite slash scaling
Nerf Excalibur's exalted blade cuz its op
Nerf Chroma's vex armor for being too op buffing weapons
Nerf Gauss' redline for being too good at killing everything fast
Nerf Frost for being too good at defending objectives
Nerf Loki/Ivara for being too good at invisibility
Nerf Nekros for being too good at getting double loot
Nerf Trinity for being too good at supporting the group
Nerf Nova for being too good at slowing/speeding down/up the mission

You really wanna compare a 1st Skill that costs 25 Energy, can deal up to 250K damage per tick and kills enemies on the other side of walls wile spreading a huge distance with these?

 

[Shockness]

There are indeed a lot of powercreeped warframes, but Saryn is just the queen, the leader of powercreep. Having a Saryn in your party means you will barely see any enemies. It's extremely unfun to play in a squad with a Saryn

[Rawbeard]

if everyone is OP... then everyone is balanced. move along.

[Loza03]

5 minutes ago, Shockness said:

There are indeed a lot of powercreeped warframes, but Saryn is just the queen, the leader of powercreep. Having a Saryn in your party means you will barely see any enemies. It's extremely unfun to play in a squad with a Saryn

Ironically, I'd also argue she's among the best designed of the Nuke Frames. She does actually take work, has a gameplay loop of her own and whatnot, unlike, say... Discharge, which is just 'push this button to delete these enemies and/or their ability to fight back'. She does actually need to competently cultivate her spores in order to maintain her DPS.

It's just she's way, waaaay too overtuned, having far too much power within that gameplay loop, leading to the 'what enemies' result. Might be why arguments surrounding her in particular get so heated. It's like somebody made a go-cart but put a Formula One engine in it.

[Xaero]

47 minutes ago, (PS4)Siramezz said:

Nerf Excalibur's exalted blade cuz its op

Hahaha.

I'm all for replacing this ability with something worth using.

[Xaero]

43 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Waves damage its theme (it's a sword) anyway, I'd move them exclusively to heavy attack... and then actually buff everything else because it'd then have very short range, thus giving it a considerable drawback.

I don't think any buff would help it. Well, unless you remove energy cost, allow all mods, allow it to bypass nullifier spheres and damage arbitration drones, rework its stance and give it capacity. Then it would be just a basic melee weapon in place of ability.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Xaero

[-Kittens-]

16 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

"Warframe is dying" "nerfs bad" "DE has lost their way" "Destiny 2 is gonna kill Warframe", we might have hit Forum Bingo here with all these tired pointless complaints.

Currently Saryn is pretty much the only choice for SO and ESO. Any other choice is blatantly inferior; in fact her current state seems expressly designed for breaking SO. Having a single Warframe be the only viable option for a mission when there are dozens available isn't good design. She also isn't very engaging in SO; you press one, shoot some dudes occasionally, and then just hide in a corner.

She needs a rework just so that her identity can move away from "SO meta-god and nothing else". That does mean she will become less meta in SO, but most likely any changes will actually make her more viable in most other gamemodes.

Except she's viable at everything; making the enemy dead removes having to lock the enemy down, the only instance of oh no someone else does it better is equinox and harrow locking down Demolysts or using a equinox limbo wombocombo to never kill any enemies in Defection and thus never raise the enemy level. In any other case only frames with scaling direct damage like Octavia have a chance of reaching Saryn's efficiency.

Edited December 12, 2019 by -Kittens-

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, Xaero said:

I don't think any buff would help it. Well, unless you remove energy cost, allow all mods, rework its stance and give it capacity. Then it would be just a basic melee weapon in place of ability.

Remove the waves, allow all mods (giving it something over its contemporary Exalteds to make up for its shorter range) and give it capacity like everything else. Massively boost damage and the give the waves to heavy attack as something special for it. Or possibly, in exchange for mods if for whatever reason that's not deemed practical, give it and only it innate damage scaling on combo level, like melee 2.0 - potentially allowing it to be one of the most powerful weapons at the cost of limited range. I don't know about you, but an extremely powerful sword sounds like a pretty sweet ability.