Jump to content
844448

Regarding Pablo's recent stream about saryn

Recommended Posts

I don't ask for nerfs, but I also don't want to play with nuke-happy Saryns (or Mesas, Equinoxes). If I come across them in missions, I either tolerate it for a short mission, leave immediately or extract at the earliest possible time. There's nothing fun about joining a game where you don't/can't do anything... and I want to shoot some futuristic humanoids and monsters! Not watch them die! Not all of the Saryns (or Mesas, Equinoxes) are so bad though!

I'd be happy if they could add a frame filter for matchmaking. I guarantee a lot of the community will filter out the Saryns, Mesas, Equinoxes for most missions while the Saryn, Mesa and Equinox mains all end up exclusively matched with each other for most missions.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, 8faiNt said:

Because thats not how I play.

Im a collector and a trader. I play this game to trade and to collect every item possible. While doing that I like to use my resources to my benefit while making the gameplay short and efficient.

If you are suggesting that playing slowly is fun, you're only speaking for yourself. When I play slow Im literally losing plat because time is the most important thing in this game I could ve spent my time cracking 2 or 3 relics or just farm endo or literally anything else

and I dont personally believe the way you talk is how a PVE should be played. If you are literally enjoying the current AI which is braindead and stupid you have no taste of gameplay imo. because literally everything is overpowered and kills the enemy instantly. it doesnt matter if its saryn or rhino. Gameplay itself isnt fun but being overpowered, rich, classy and cool is though I respect your style of playing slow, killing a grineer, wasting your time.

then what happens when you get everything collected at these maximized paces? what happened before this level of efficiency was an option for that matter? and why did you pick warframe specifically for this task of i guess faux budget pushing/management? i feel there are probably marketing simulators that do a better task for scratching that kind of itch. 

and none of us can fault enemies for seeming brain dead with the current scope of power we have in this game, you can't want enemies to be trivial then judge them for it, but that's also why parts of the playerbase want to improve balance so better game design and experiences can be an actual option. 

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, nslay said:

I don't ask for nerfs, but I also don't want to play with nuke-happy Saryns (or Mesas, Equinoxes). If I come across them in missions, I either tolerate it for a short mission, leave immediately or extract at the earliest possible time. There's nothing fun about joining a game where you don't/can't do anything... and I want to shoot some futuristic humanoids and monsters! Not watch them die! Not all of the Saryns (or Mesas, Equinoxes) are so bad though!

I'd be happy if they could add a frame filter for matchmaking. I guarantee a lot of the community will filter out the Saryns, Mesas, Equinoxes for most missions while the Saryn, Mesa and Equinox mains all end up exclusively matched with each other for most missions.

Actually this wouldn't be half bad. Hope somebody listens to this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Cubewano said:

then what happens when you get everything collected at these maximized paces? what happened before this level of efficiency was an option for that matter? and why did you pick warframe specifically for this task of i guess faux budget pushing/management? i feel there are probably marketing simulators that do a better task for scratching that kind of itch. 

and none of us can fault enemies for seeming brain dead with the current scope of power we have in this game, you can't want enemies to be trivial then judge them for it, but that's also why parts of the playerbase want to improve balance so better game design and experiences can be an actual option. 

 

I have 2k in game hours and 4k on steam and Im still playing so obviously Im still not there

and I dont think its something you could understand how I enjoy warframe if you think playing marketing simulators is the same thing

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, (XB1)RevenantRequiem said:

You CAN'T AFK with Saryn and kill everything! You have to work at it!

You really don't. Cast spore, press 3, spread with ignis. 

Gee.. That was hard. 

  • Haha 1
  • Woah 1
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, --C--Nehra said:

Actually this wouldn't be half bad. Hope somebody listens to this. 

It's a bad idea. I don't think Saryn, Mesa or Equinox should be effectively secluded from the rest of the community for most mission types. People mention Volt, but that electricity damage isn't so great against Grineer (especially Alloy armor). And to give him range, he pays for it in ability strength gimping his damage... it's really good CC though!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cubewano said:

Because she presents problems to the games overall balance and isn't compatible with a healthy co-op experience, and that state likely isn't the only enjoyable state she can be in. Is there a particular reason you need her to be as overwhelmingly powerful as she is to function in the game? Or why as a co-op game that flavor should go before well...consideration for co-op?

Warframe from a design standpoint isn't supportive of co-op. Saryn "ruining" ESO is the least of DE's concern if "co-op experience" was any sort of priority. Limbo making his squad worthless by press using 2 and 4 then afking during a mobile defense isn't any different than Saryn's alleged ability to afk in ESO. There's a long list of things that invalidate squad members depending on mission type, and it all has to do with how the game is designed around independence. The game has no content that is actually designed around working with other people, and difficulty doesn't even really scale with number of squad members. This is why people say Warframe is essentially a single player game with multiplayer added to it, DE even forces part of the story to be soloed.

Not only the above, but there isn't really any synergy between Warframes by design, and so many Warframes interact with one another in negative ways, some loadouts can completely harm another loadout.

Warframe doesn't even have a proper LFG system, if it had a proper system alongside chat, then maybe people could properly avoid playing with Warframes they don't like.

19 minutes ago, Xaero said:

- But doesn't it mean the opposite? Wouldn't it be better if you could see Saryn in any gamemode on any difficulty?

Saryn can be used for any game mode even at higher levels, she just doesn't use the same one loadout for all of them, just because people claim she can press 4 and delete everything for every mission type, doesn't mean it's true; Saryns that I see doing this typically get no kills, or die at later levels due to being made out of glass. It's not much different than Volt, outside of ESO/Defense he's not built for spamming 4. Most nerfs mentioned for Saryn would also reduce her effectiveness outside of ESO and most likely wouldn't even change anything, she would still be better than most options for ESO simply due to how she's designed as well as how ESO is designed, while just being weaker everywhere else.

Edited by Yamazuki
  • Like 1
  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

Saryn can be used for any game mode even at higher levels, she just doesn't use the same one loadout for all of them, just because people claim she can press 4 and delete everything for every mission type, doesn't mean it's true; Saryns that I see doing this typically get no kills, or die at later levels due to being made out of glass. It's not much different than Volt, outside of ESO/Defense he's not built for spamming 4. Most nerfs mentioned for Saryn would also reduce her effectiveness outside of ESO and most likely wouldn't even change anything, she would still be better than most options for ESO simply due to how she's designed as well as how ESO is designed, while just being weaker everywhere else.

If you ask me, I think limiting her range (which is insane rn) would be enough.

  • Woah 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Yamazuki said:

Warframe doesn't even have a proper LFG system, if it had a proper system alongside chat, then maybe people could properly avoid playing with Warframes they don't like.

I mean it would work... but there would be effectively secluded communities of warframes! There would be nukers mostly amongst themselves for most missions because a lot of people want to do more than just pick things up and watch stuff die. Then there would be niche frames that have bad reputations (e.g. Nyx, Vauban, Revenant). There would probably be some types of annoying loot frames in their own secluded community... though more people like loot frames despite their annoying abilities. I think it's a bad idea, though I'd be happy to have such a feature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, nslay said:

I don't ask for nerfs, but I also don't want to play with nuke-happy Saryns (or Mesas, Equinoxes). If I come across them in missions, I either tolerate it for a short mission, leave immediately or extract at the earliest possible time. There's nothing fun about joining a game where you don't/can't do anything... and I want to shoot some futuristic humanoids and monsters! Not watch them die! Not all of the Saryns (or Mesas, Equinoxes) are so bad though!

I'd be happy if they could add a frame filter for matchmaking. I guarantee a lot of the community will filter out the Saryns, Mesas, Equinoxes for most missions while the Saryn, Mesa and Equinox mains all end up exclusively matched with each other for most missions.

i know splitting the playerbase is probably not the best idea for a co-op game, especially in such specifics, but i also would love to see how such a thing would turn out and if we'd find soem poetic irony arising from it, so yes, please give us this de. 

3 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

I have 2k in game hours and 4k on steam and Im still playing so obviously Im still not there

and I dont think its something you could understand how I enjoy warframe if you think playing marketing simulators is the same thing

 

i'm only going with what you're giving me, which is all i can really do. you can elaborate more on what attracts you to this game and style of play, i asked quite a few questions that seem to be going unanswered that would help paint a clearer picture. 

1 minute ago, Yamazuki said:

Warframe from a design standpoint isn't supportive of co-op. Saryn "ruining" ESO is the least of DE's concern if "co-op experience" was any sort of priority. Limbo making his squad worthless by press using 2 and 4 then afking during a mobile defense isn't any different than Saryn's alleged ability to afk in ESO. There's a long list of things that invalidate squad members depending on mission type, and it all has to do with how the game is designed around independence. The game has no content that is actually designed around working with other people, and difficulty doesn't even really scale with number of squad members. This is why people say Warframe is essentially a single player game with multiplayer added to it, DE even forces part of the story to be soloed.

Not only the above, but there isn't really any synergy between Warframes by design, and so many Warframes interact with one another in negative ways, some loadouts can completely harm another loadout.

Warframe doesn't even have a proper LFG system, if it had a proper system alongside chat, then maybe people could properly avoid playing with Warframes they don't like.

Some frames aren't sure, but that doesn't really make Warframe no longer co-op in any way, nor invalidate requests/attempts to salvage that state. A few unfriendly co-op frames like Saryn and Mesa and Limbo are starkly the sum of the whole game, or its potential. The most you can go for is that this game doesn't have as much organized co-op, but I perceive that as a separate thing from just general matchmaking stuff. Being able to just play with other people in a fun not streamlined form is still co-op, and that most people still play in groups makes it co-op as well. 

But what's your point through all this though? You don't think Warframe should make it's co-op a better experience because flawed elements exist? 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

again interesting nerf again next nerf in line ember  than mirrage than vauban yay love nerfs than buffs when the nerfed thing dies man nerf is the endgame

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

 

i'm only going with what you're giving me, which is all i can really do. you can elaborate more on what attracts you to this game and style of play, i asked quite a few questions that seem to be going unanswered that would help paint a clearer picture. 

 

I gave you a lot of things you could ve worked on you just didnt wanna comment on them and instead decided to compare warframe to a some sort of market stock simulation. You're lowkey trolling

Edited by 8faiNt
  • Applause 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

What gameplay demands this? You can do ESO without Saryn, so what else is there? 

We can do ESO without Saryn but she's the most effective WF in ESO and I saw some people prefer a nerf on her just because she's effective in ESO, thus my doubt of their Saryn experience. And this is dangerous, Saryn is fine as she is now, and to stack a lot of damage, being afk is not a choice, and she could be probably nerfed just because of some damn ignorant demanded it ? Just wow...

52 minutes ago, Xaero said:

So Saryn's (and some other frames') nuking potential is more like a crutch for a bad gamemode. If a bad gamemode is fixed, do we need that crutch?

Did I even mention (Elite) Sanctuary Onslaught is a bad game mode ?

And supposed that it was bad, like I have answered Cubewano above, some people wanted a nerf on her just because she's good at something badly designated ? Outstanding move ! Instead of improving the gameplay so that there would be no more discrimination among warframes, people just cut open the poor Saryn like humanity back in the old era fearing Witches ? I will leave the logical imagination to you then.

I notice people have been hating Nuke thing for years, and Saryn is always on the plate like a poor victim, and still I don't understand what point of a warframe that most of you are biased toward... But whatever it is, Nuke has been always thought as a heresy, lmao!

  • Applause 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Diangelius said:

and she could be probably nerfed just because of some damn ignorant demanded it ? Just wow...

This is the real scary part. A small and toxic and vocal section of the community can get developers to do drastic nerfs. It's scary indeed. 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
  • Applause 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Diangelius said:

Did I even mention (Elite) Sanctuary Onslaught is a bad game mode ?

Um, yeah?

"Like lots of people already mentioned, Saryn is not problem. It is the gameplay which demands Warframes like Saryn to be effective. If you kill slowly in ESO your Efficiency % will pathetically keep dropping and cannot be even raised."

Unless you meant that the problematic gameplay ESO forces on us is actually a good thing.

7 minutes ago, Diangelius said:

And supposed that it was bad, like I have answered Cubewano above, some people wanted a nerf on her just because she's good at something badly designated ? Outstanding move ! Instead of improving the gameplay so that there would be no more discrimination among warframes, people just cut open the poor Saryn like humanity back in the old era fearing Witches ?

Ok, how do you reach "no discrimination" state? Make every frame a nuker? Change gameplay so nuking is not effective? Please explain.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally the nerf that we all wanted! Something too good cannot stay forever. And no one believed me. lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, --C--Nehra said:

This is the real scary part. A small and toxic and vocal section of the community can get developers to do drastic nerfs. It's scary indeed. 

It's almost as if the developers are mindless slaves!

This is absolute nonsense. If they nerf something, it means that the developers themselves are in agreement with or understand the opinion. Pablo basically expressed it himself that he thinks Saryn is bad to gameplay. Trying to pretend that you're the enlightened people who understand the game better than the developers and calling everyone toxic is disgusting.

Edited by RX-3DR
  • Like 3
  • Haha 3
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

I gave you a lot of things you could ve worked on you just didnt wanna comment on them and instead decided to compare warframe to a some sort of market stock simulation. You're lowkey trolling

i'm trying to work with them but you don't seem to want to answer any of my follow up questions or elaborate on the matter. if you don't want to explain your position please just say so and save us both time, i don't need this game of cat and mouse. 

24 minutes ago, Diangelius said:

We can do ESO without Saryn but she's the most effective WF in ESO and I saw some people prefer a nerf on her just because she's effective in ESO, thus my doubt of their Saryn experience. And this is dangerous, Saryn is fine as she is now, and to stack a lot of damage, being afk is not a choice, and she could be probably nerfed just because of some damn ignorant demanded it ? Just wow...

But she is effective, you just said so, and she's extremely effective at the rest of the game as well, overwhelmingly so to the point of more or less turning off gameplay for others. Why does any of that make you think people who believe she needs balancing to be misinformed? Maybe you aren't bothered by her solo style of play, but surely you can't deny how overwhelming she can be in a co-op setting, or that her level of aoe clear doesn't easily have the capability of disabling content for others. Otherwise I may have to question how informed you are about Saryn's state of affairs.  

Edited by Cubewano
  • Haha 2
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be glad if we would get nerfed. She makes high level content trivial undtill the point where the enemies can 1shot everyone. Low level there are other Frames like Banshee or Volt (up to mid level content) but Sayn is something else. I would understand it but they would also have to rework a Sao.

 

  • Like 3
  • Woah 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember last year when Mogamu made a video on how CC was not viable any longer because the new CC had become kill before seeing. I use to love running Saryn, Volt, Equinox, Mesa and Octavia because I didn't feel like i had to engage into the game play and everything just disappeared because of my simple ability caste. It was only fun for about a month/two then, I started running frames where I felt more engaged in the game play. It felt so much better. Whatever DE does, every rework done lately have been only to make the frames feel much more integrated and I have confidence they they will do the same with these nuke frames.

  • Like 4
  • Haha 3
  • Woah 2
  • Applause 2
  • Upvote 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ESO is the only option to farm focus when it's the day on Cetus. Focus farming is a chore (and 1million to unlock powers is really meh). Saryn make it a bit more bearable and you can't even spam your 4.

Other point is Hydron, Adaro with an equinox friend is better, but hydron is more straight forward (nova speed + saryn and a few min later your weapons are leveled).

Sorties start at lvl ~50 which is a bad joke, only the last part is kinda relevant, same with Liches, or past 15min in Mot.

Saryn is not "OP" she just makes boring / tedious grind faster. "lvl 90" is not endgame, otherwise you'd have to nerf every frame.

 

So leave Saryn be, or maybe make her 4 a bit more reliant on spore to deal damage... but not much.

  • Applause 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

ESO is the only option to farm focus when it's the day on Cetus.

Fastest maybe, but definitely not the only one. I had maxed out all my focus schools half a year before ESO was introduced. Playing solo with Ivara and Glaive.

  • Woah 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

It's almost as if the developers are mindless slaves!

This is absolute nonsense. If they nerf something, it means that the developers themselves are in agreement with or understand the opinion. Pablo basically expressed it himself that he thinks Saryn is bad to gameplay. Trying to pretend that you're the enlightened people who understand the game better than the developers and calling everyone toxic is disgusting.

People have been demanding a rework for botched up armor scaling for so long... (Yet Pablo talked about Saryn nerf). Yet these type of threads do always get reworked. We will talk when this disgusting nerf train riding trend actually stops. 

Edited by --C--Nehra
  • Applause 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The truly sad part of this community is that regardless of what devs do to buff these things, they'll support nerfing said weapon/frame a few months to nearly a year later, well after thousands work on it and tell those people to "get used to it".

No one dares mention that they rushed out her rework, called it good where it is, and only now, based again pretty much solely on MR26+ usage are going to nerf it. Catchmoon 2.0 anyone?

  • Like 1
  • Applause 3
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

The truly sad part of this community is that regardless of what devs do to buff these things, they'll support nerfing said weapon/frame a few months to nearly a year later, well after thousands work on it and tell those people to "get used to it".

No one dares mention that they rushed out her rework, called it good where it is, and only now, based again pretty much solely on MR26+ usage are going to nerf it. Catchmoon 2.0 anyone?

Also what about the people who bought prime access Saryn because of her present abilities? Would they pay the same for a nerfed one? I don't think so.

  • Haha 1
  • Applause 6
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...