Regarding Pablo's recent stream about saryn

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

1 minute ago, --C--Nehra said:

Also what about the people who bought prime access Saryn because of her present abilities? Would they pay the same for a nerfed one? I don't think so.

Funny that they literally sell her then immediately start hinting less than a month after her prime unvaulting that she needs nerfed. Selling you power creep then taking it all back. Great way to make up one's mind about a game!

Seriously though that sounds really scummy.

[Cubewano]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

The truly sad part of this community is that regardless of what devs do to buff these things, they'll support nerfing said weapon/frame a few months to nearly a year later, well after thousands work on it and tell those people to "get used to it".

No one dares mention that they rushed out her rework, called it good where it is, and only now, based again pretty much solely on MR26+ usage are going to nerf it. Catchmoon 2.0 anyone?

While I agree they shouldn't take so long to rebalance explicitly broken things, and their inability to just stick to a reliable balance structure is just awful and polarizes the whole situation of rebalancing to a whole new level, I also think it was a mistake to buff Saryn in the first place and I'll stand by them finally correcting said mistake no matter how long it takes. Two wrongs don't make a right.  

[Aizen237]

 good morning everyone 😉 i swear to god some ppl won t stop asking for nerfs until they make the fun fun grendel mission our everday experince lmao 

 

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

9 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

While I agree they shouldn't take so long to rebalance explicitly broken things, and their inability to just stick to a reliable balance structure is just awful and polarizes the whole situation of rebalancing to a whole new level, I also think it was a mistake to buff Saryn in the first place and I'll stand by them finally correcting said mistake no matter how long it takes. Two wrongs don't make a right.  

Saryn wasn't good before. Simply put spores "turret" was an unintended way of trying to get SOME use out of her. Rather than taking their time they push out 2 builds, obviously picking the less AFK one. It isn't "correcting a mistake" if they're selling people the very thing weeks before this as if she's working exactly as intended.

It isn't wrong to have something excel at a select set of missions. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a problem, but therein lies the Crux of the issue with much of this community.

Also it's rather telling they sold this frame just before talking about nerfing it. Once again at the very least bad optics from DE.

Edited December 3, 2019 by (XB1)Almighty Deity

[SastusBulbas]

DE may want to bear in mind that when people spend real money for an item they expect what they pay for.

 

The more DE abuse paying customers, the more they rot their foundations.

 

I bought Saryn Prime/Valkyr Prime vault pack in xbox.

Thats £50 spent based on my PC experience of those frames. 

 

Basically its akin to buying a car/bread/bicycle/phone and once having it, the retailer turning up whenever they want, saying #*!% you, laughing, taking the goods you paid for and leaving you something different and worth less.

 

Not exactly good business practise. 

 

 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

Just now, SastusBulbas said:

DE may want to bear in mind that when people spend real money for an item they expect what they pay for.

 

The more DE abuse paying customers, the more they rot their foundations.

 

I bought Saryn Prime/Valkyr Prime vault pack in xbox.

Thats £50 spent based on my PC experience of those frames. 

 

Basically its akin to buying a car/bread/bicycle/phone and once having it, the retailer turning up whenever they want, saying #*!% you, laughing, taking the goods you paid for and leaving you something different and worth less.

 

Not exactly good business practise. 

 

 

"I decided the pizza you bought wasnt healthy for you so I turned it into a salad. No refunds."- this is essentially what happens every time they break something people invest their time and money in. 

And I know, (I already see someone typing) "but sometimes nerfs are needed!" But DE has a track record of going overboard with nerfs and breaking things completely. 

 

[Xaero]

13 minutes ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

The truly sad part of this community is that regardless of what devs do to buff these things, they'll support nerfing said weapon/frame a few months to nearly a year later, well after thousands work on it and tell those people to "get used to it".

No one dares mention that they rushed out her rework, called it good where it is, and only now, based again pretty much solely on MR26+ usage are going to nerf it. Catchmoon 2.0 anyone?

I've seen lots of people asking to nerf Saryn since day 1 of her latest rework. I've seen lots of people telling others not to invest into clearly overperforming gear. I've seen lots of people being unhappy with DE taking too long to balance something. Is it a different community?

[Oreades]

36 minutes ago, kwlingo said:

 It was only fun for about a month/two then, I started running frames where I felt more engaged in the game play. 

Holy WOW! It's almost like it's a self correcting "problem" where in which you naturally gravitate towards frames that have a play style you enjoy. At least if you have anything remotely resembling something approximating self control. 

 

[Xaero]

25 minutes ago, --C--Nehra said:

Also what about the people who bought prime access Saryn because of her present abilities?

It's almost like Saryn nerf is the first nerf in Warframe's history. DE have been nerfing stuff all along, shouldn't people be careful making their purchase decisions relied solely on such an unstable factor as power level?

Edited December 3, 2019 by Xaero

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

"I decided the pizza you bought wasnt healthy for you so I turned it into a salad. No refunds."- this is essentially what happens every time they break something people invest their time and money in. 

And I know, (I already see someone typing) "but sometimes nerfs are needed!" But DE has a track record of going overboard with nerfs and breaking things completely. 

 

Case in point Mag, Ember, and a mess of others. The big difference between even those and this? They didn't just sell people this week's ago for $30-60... That's beyond scummy.

[RX-3DR]

31 minutes ago, --C--Nehra said:

People have been demanding a rework for botched up armor scaling for so long... (Yet Pablo talked about Saryn nerf). Yet these type of threads do always get reworked. We will talk when this disgusting nerf train riding trend actually stops. 

Certain things are harder to rework than others. Second, armor is not relevant to Saryn's killing things beyond line of sight. Would I like it if they looked at all the areas of the game and rework all of them simultaneously? Of course, it'd be nice if the game was actually properly balanced to make public matchmaking no longer a coinflip on whether you get to play the game. But realistically, solutions to some of the more deeply rooted problems can't be achieved without looking at an extremely wide scope and due to the larger area they would affect, can bring in new problems while barely solving the core issue.

Take for instance, an armor rework will affect armor mods, massive EHP shifts across the board, enemy balancing, armor reduction abilities, the weight between armor and other damage reducing abilities and further down the line, how we deal with enemies. All of these can have a lot of impact down the line, such as Inaros and Nidus being completely unable to take hits in comparison to Ember. Heavy enemies being completely deleted from a sneeze, resulting in Grineer becoming an absolute joke. Armor stripping abilities becoming a useless buff. Meanwhile, tweaking with a single frame allows you to work with finer details that won't affect the whole game. Nerfing Saryn won't destroy ESO, it won't ruin the Grineer, at best, it will shift people to the next meta and DE can look at it and decide if that is too far ahead and deal with it appropriately. If the result is too harsh, they can scale the changes back a little and see where it lands them without having to uproot the entire tree.

Edited December 3, 2019 by RX-3DR

[-Fatal-]

Well nobody forced you to buy the vault pack?

De needs to fix the "powercreep" everybody talks about.

[Cubewano]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

Saryn wasn't good before. Simply put spores "turret" was an unintended way of trying to get SOME use out of her. Rather than taking their time they push out 2 builds, obviously picking the less AFK one. It isn't "correcting a mistake" if they're selling people the very thing weeks before this as if she's working exactly as intended.

It isn't wrong to have something excel at a select set of missions. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a problem, but therein lies the Crux of the issue with much of this community.

Also it's rather telling they sold this frame just before talking about nerfing it. Once again at the very least bad optics from DE.

She was better balanced than she is now. 

And she Excels at effectively everything, to extremes, while invalidating group play where it occurrs, that certainly sounds like a problem. 

Also Pablo has been quite open about his opinions on Saryn's state for a while, that it only just happened to blow up now (because a clear misrepresentation of information to make sparks) has nothing to do with some sales strategy or whenever Saryn Prime was last available. None of the discussion is even in the works, or has a planned release yet even for that matter, it wasn't even an official statement. Don't misinterpret things for what they aren't. 

[8faiNt]

2 minutes ago, Xaero said:

It's almost like Saryn nerf is the first nerf in Warframe's history. DE have been nerfing stuff all along, shouldn't people be careful making their purchase decisions relying solely on such an unstable factor as power level?

I agree. we should stop supporting DE so they stop nerfing things after they release the prime access of x item I assume thats what you mean.

Edited December 3, 2019 by 8faiNt

[Diangelius]

47 minutes ago, Xaero said:

Ok, how do you reach "no discrimination" state? Make every frame a nuker? Change gameplay so nuking is not effective? Please explain.

There are lots of ways to improve the mode but I will just state one example (because human's imagination is pretty diverse): remove the skill spamming Restriction and make skills usage also generate Efficiency % ? Simaris keeps saying "It is you I study" after all.

42 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

But she is effective, you just said so, and she's extremely effective at the rest of the game as well

Sure, bring her to Eidolon hunt then ?

Joke aside, no, she's not that overwhelming. Her spores and miasma depend pretty much on range, in survival if teammates just scatter in a wide area and her spores just kill too fast without any mob to spread, it decays fast. In defense mode you have delay between 2 waves and that already decays 99% of spore's damage. Fast run modes like Exterminate, Capture, Mobile Defense, Sabotage, etc, are even more impossible for her to stack a lot of spores damage.

=> So what does Saryn mostly do in the situation that she can't properly stack up spore damage ? Toxic Lash for toxin and Miasma to help halving mobs' HP of course, the latter action of which makes other teammates easier to earn their kills. If talking about DPS support roles, Rhino, Equinox, Octavia, Nova, Vauban can do the same (at this point I hope you would not mention about Line of Sight...)

What I don't like is, Saryn is targeted as a nerf subject too many times although that's not what she deserves.

[DeMonkey]

10 minutes ago, SastusBulbas said:

Basically its akin to buying a car/bread/bicycle/phone and once having it, the retailer turning up whenever they want, saying #*!% you, laughing, taking the goods you paid for and leaving you something different and worth less.

 

Not exactly good business practise. 

Yes, except that the retailer told you beforehand that this could happen, and it was fairly obvious that it probably would happen, but you bought it anyway.

Not exactly a good purchasing habit.

[Xaero]

3 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

I agree. we should stop supporting DE so they stop nerfing things after they release the prime access of x item I assume thats what you mean.

If you think people are only interested in power level then yeah, that's what I mean.

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

6 minutes ago, Xaero said:

I've seen lots of people asking to nerf Saryn since day 1 of her latest rework. I've seen lots of people telling others not to invest into clearly overperforming gear. I've seen lots of people being unhappy with DE taking too long to balance something. Is it a different community?

I've seen lots of people say the same about Chroma, or Octavia, or even Wisp. The community needs to calm down and get off the nerf train. They're not doing themselves any favors in the long run because in the end they'll just brick her as they've done so many times before and there'll be one more mastery rank fodder prime.

Ask for better content rather than spending time likely destroying a frame that they'll have to come back to later. They won't spend the time required to make any nerf truly balanced. Much easier to decrease range by 56% and fall off by 83% and call it good. They'll sell you a slot later to fix 40% of one of those 2 nerfs.

[DreamVow]

At least you enjoyed it while it lasted? Boosters don’t last forever as well

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

Just now, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

Case in point Mag, Ember, and a mess of others. The big difference between even those and this? They didn't just sell people this week's ago for $30-60... That's beyond scummy.

That's okay. Any moment  now I'll be met by an entire battalion of people remind me that the phrase "subject to change" exists in the games eula/terms of use. And you'll meet the same fate for having the audacity to have what appears to be a similar mindset as me. 

Just because they can doesnt mean they should and just because they can doesnt mean we have to like it. 

 

And that's what kills me though. DE will leave something "broken" for an absurdly long time before deciding that something is "broken" and "fixing" it. How long was chroma "broken"? How long was condition overload "broken"? How about catchmoon? How long did that exist? How about that time they didnt change rivens for over 600 days and then decided rivens were broken? How about maiming strike? How about ember? 

When they introduce something to the game sure, sometimes things turn out to be stronger than intended. Sometimes players figure out how to use things in an unforeseen way. But when they let a "problem" drag on for months or even years, making money off of if bit being overpowered the whole time (and dont tell me things being op doesn't make them sell better) yeah, it seems icky to me. 

[RX-3DR]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

there'll be one more mastery rank fodder prime.

Why do frames become mastery rank fodder? Consider where the idea of mastery rank fodder comes from.

[SolarDwagon]

1 minute ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

That's okay. Any moment  now I'll be met by an entire battalion of people remind me that the phrase "subject to change" exists in the games eula/terms of use. And you'll meet the same fate for having the audacity to have what appears to be a similar mindset as me. 

Just because they can doesnt mean they should and just because they can doesnt mean we have to like it. 

 

And that's what kills me though. DE will leave something "broken" for an absurdly long time before deciding that something is "broken" and "fixing" it. How long was chroma "broken"? How long was condition overload "broken"? How about catchmoon? How long did that exist? How about that time they didnt change rivens for over 600 days and then decided rivens were broken? How about maiming strike? How about ember? 

When they introduce something to the game sure, sometimes things turn out to be stronger than intended. Sometimes players figure out how to use things in an unforeseen way. But when they let a "problem" drag on for months or even years, making money off of if bit being overpowered the whole time (and dont tell me things being op doesn't make them sell better) yeah, it seems icky to me. 

Then stop buying into things that are OP.

[8faiNt]

11 minutes ago, Xaero said:

If you think people are only interested in power level then yeah, that's what I mean.

I mean? yes? lol. Thats how making op guns and nerfing them later on works.

ever heard of the game R6? Their system of making money from releasing OP operators then nerfing later on worked perfectly fine so far. Its no surprise DE is doing the same. Its a f2p game but If its going to be so absurd why not just build a dam and block the flow If thats how they prefer to listen feedback so be it.

Edited December 3, 2019 by 8faiNt

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

Last i heard there was NO OFFICIAL talk of a nerf merely a person saying they didn't like how it turned out and saying that it was unofficial and there were no official plans to work on a Saryn nerf at all. has this changed or are people still saying there is a nerf happening that isn't happening?

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

there is still no nerf happening. people need to read and do some sort of reasoning here