Regarding Pablo's recent stream about saryn

[Highlord83]

4 hours ago, --C--Nehra said:

That doesn't happen. Put spores on one enemy and afk and they will not spread to whole map. 

 

Why do people have issues with other people who solo ESO with Saryn? Responding because I am the guy who solos everything and only use Saryn for ESO and lich exterminate or defense. 

Because for every player that uses a full meta build Saryn running solo, there's six that takes them into group missions, solo everything, and leave everyone else bored.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 minute ago, DreamVow said:

At least you enjoyed it while it lasted? Boosters don’t last forever as well

Boosters have a clearly advertised, obviously limited duration. 

4 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Yes, except that the retailer told you beforehand that this could happen, and it was fairly obvious that it probably would happen, but you bought it anyway.

Not exactly a good purchasing habit.

"So jokes on you for supporting DE" is not a good answer nor is it a good business practice. 

 

I also disagree with it on the grounds that I think it's reasonable for a typical gamer to conclude that if something has existed a certain way for months or even literally YEARS than it isnt "busted" its intentional and working as it's supposed to. Typically, if a game or weapon or character turns out to be "broken with bad math" or "overpowered" the developer will work to get it patched sooner rather than later.

At least in my gaming experience taking months or years to decide something is broken isnt normal. It isnt like saryn (as she exists now) was dropped yesterday or last week. Shes been this way for quite awhile.

[Chicken-Biryani]

12 minutes ago, Xaero said:

It's almost like Saryn nerf is the first nerf in Warframe's history. DE have been nerfing stuff all along, shouldn't people be careful making their purchase decisions relied solely on such an unstable factor as power level?

So it's the consumer's fault now? Good... Certain people can never fault the company but always point something the consumer does is responsible for the scammy mechanics. Good!

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

5 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

She was better balanced than she is now. 

And she Excels at effectively everything, to extremes, while invalidating group play where it occurrs, that certainly sounds like a problem. 

Also Pablo has been quite open about his opinions on Saryn's state for a while, that it only just happened to blow up now (because a clear misrepresentation of information to make sparks) has nothing to do with some sales strategy or whenever Saryn Prime was last available. None of the discussion is even in the works, or has a planned release yet even for that matter, it wasn't even an official statement. Don't misinterpret things for what they aren't. 

That'd be your opinion, and based off the impression they gave from community usage, that option is wrong.

Once again your opinion on "invalidating group play" would be your opinion, and I don't think you have anything but anecdotes to support that.

Sure, it has nothing to do with the fact they just now stopped selling her, just like the mod drop booster had nothing to do with OP synergy, or that plexilus slots had nothing to do with the Catchmoon nerf. Bad optics is bad optics. Regardless as to how one might justify a nerf, they can't reasonably justify how they've conducted themselves in the last few months in relation to said nerfs.

[Cubewano]

1 minute ago, Diangelius said:

Sure, bring her to Eidolon hunt then ?

Joke aside, no, she's not that overwhelming. Her spores and miasma depend pretty much on range, in survival if teammates just scatter in a wide area and her spores just kill too fast without any mob to spread, it decays fast. In defense mode you have delay between 2 waves and that already decays 99% of spore's damage. Fast run modes like Exterminate, Capture, Mobile Defense, Sabotage, etc, are even more impossible for her to stack a lot of spores damage.

=> So what does Saryn mostly do in the situation that she can't properly stack up spore damage ? Toxic Lash for toxin and Miasma to help halving mobs' HP of course, the latter action of which makes other teammates easier to earn their kills. If talking about DPS support roles, Rhino, Equinox, Octavia, Nova, Vauban can do the same (at this point I hope you would not mention about Line of Sight...)

What I don't like is, Saryn is targeted as a nerf subject too many times although that's not what she deserves.

Fortunately she has the greatest range in the game, is one of the faster frames in the game, and exists in a high mobility game system, so she's very safe in most instances. Yes if players split to every corner of a survival she can't kill everything, but that also not realistically common occurrence and effectively requires self sabotage to achieve by splitting up spawns in an unreliable and risky fashion. In defense it doesn't matter if her spores reset when they can kill just fine from the base damage for a majority of the games level scheme. Same applies to all those other missions modes. Earlier today I did the sortie exterminate with Saryn using primarily her spores and outpaced my entire team including a peacemaker Mesa despite loading in last and came out with over three quarters of the kills/damage, and I wasn't even using my best build. You don't need to stack all that much to delete enemies with Saryn in standard content. 

So yeah, the nerfs seem deserved at the moment. 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

3 minutes ago, SolarDwagon said:

Then stop buying into things that are OP.

So I'm supposed to magically know what DE will decide is OP months or years from now? Yeah no. 

 

I think I'd be better off just not giving them money at this point. 

[Rivyn]

Can we not just wait for official word on a nerf/rework? And even then, can we not wait until we're shown what those are, before screaming that the sky is falling? Seriously. For all we know, Saryn may get a few percentage points knocked off her kit, so that she can still melt things solo, but not in such a way where I have to sit around twiddling my thumbs while a frame with an IWin button makes the mission boring.

[Chicken-Biryani]

1 minute ago, Cubewano said:

So yeah, the nerfs seem deserved at the moment. 

That's your opinion, and not the truth. Just like what i say is my opinion and not the complete truth. Saryn nerf is undeserved solely based on her performance in ESO. Also, if DE is going to advocate slow-paced gameplay, I doubt they will retain the entirety of their player base with this kind of direction. (I don't think they would go all the way towards this end, still, it's a worrying trend that they are following lately.)

Edited December 3, 2019 by --C--Nehra

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

5 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

Why do frames become mastery rank fodder? Consider where the idea of mastery rank fodder comes from.

Well for many it comes from nerfs. Nerfing others won't suddenly resurrect dead frames. It will just disincentivize the community to put work into your content and defeat the purpose of exilus/plexilus slots, umbral forma, and lenses.

[Chicken-Biryani]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

Well for many it comes from nerfs. Nerfing others won't suddenly resurrect dead frames. It will just disincentivize the community to put work into your content and defeat the purpose of exilus/plexilus slots, umbral forma, and lenses.

Exactly, like how people are still using catchmoon even after the nerf, because it didn't solve anything. 

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

1 minute ago, Rivyn said:

Can we not just wait for official word on a nerf/rework? And even then, can we not wait until we're shown what those are, before screaming that the sky is falling? Seriously. For all we know, Saryn may get a few percentage points knocked off her kit, so that she can still melt things solo, but not in such a way where I have to sit around twiddling my thumbs while a frame with an IWin button makes the mission boring.

there will be no official word in fact Pablo has said what he said was him not in an official capacity just him streaming on his own and his own opinions. he doesn't like it personally but that doesnt' mean there is any nerf he said there is no immediate nerf in the works. it is deconfirmed at this point people just refuse to read and then in fact blame Pablo afterwards over them misunderstanding him.

[Rivyn]

That's what I mean. He was just giving his thoughts, and yet the dozen threads that popped up from it act as if it's set in stone, and that his thoughts are going to destroy her. 

[Chicken-Biryani]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

So I'm supposed to magically know what DE will decide is OP months or years from now? Yeah no. 

 

I think I'd be better off just not giving them money at this point. 

Very true... Making such statements just after making massive prime access sales (where people bought Saryn for what her present skillset is, super-powerful-nuke), is irresponsible at best. 

[Cubewano]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

That'd be your opinion, and based off the impression they gave from community usage, that option is wrong.

Once again your opinion on "invalidating group play" would be your opinion, and I don't think you have anything but anecdotes to support that.

Sure, it has nothing to do with the fact they just now stopped selling her, just like the mod drop booster had nothing to do with OP synergy, or that plexilus slots had nothing to do with the Catchmoon nerf. Bad optics is bad optics. Regardless as to how one might justify a nerf, they can't reasonably justify how they've conducted themselves in the last few months in relation to said nerfs.

It's my opinion off of active experience with both versions of her kit. 

You can look at any number of videos of Saryn's potential and map clearing to see how she easily can invalidate group play. 

And they seem justified just fine to me, I think you're just a bit paranoid. 

[Aadi880]

Just now, --C--Nehra said:

Exactly, like how people are still using catchmoon even after the nerf, because it didn't solve anything. 

Don't think so. Last devstream showed a decrease in Catchmoon usage from 51% to 23%, in other words, less people uses the Catchmoon now. Because of this, DE does not plan to revert the change any time soon.

If you mean something else, do correct me.

[Chicken-Biryani]

Just now, Rivyn said:

That's what I mean. He was just giving his thoughts, and yet the dozen threads that popped up from it act as if it's set in stone, and that his thoughts are going to destroy her. 

Because that's what is going to happen. A lot of people have been asking for nerfs to nuke frames and advocating a slower paced playstyle to be enforced upon everyone. If you have been a regular at the forums, you'd find how justified people's fears are.

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

2 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

Fortunately she has the greatest range in the game, is one of the faster frames in the game, and exists in a high mobility game system, so she's very safe in most instances. Yes if players split to every corner of a survival she can't kill everything, but that also not realistically common occurrence and effectively requires self sabotage to achieve by splitting up spawns in an unreliable and risky fashion. In defense it doesn't matter if her spores reset when they can kill just fine from the base damage for a majority of the games level scheme. Same applies to all those other missions modes. Earlier today I did the sortie exterminate with Saryn using primarily her spores and outpaced my entire team including a peacemaker Mesa despite loading in last and came out with over three quarters of the kills/damage, and I wasn't even using my best build. You don't need to stack all that much to delete enemies with Saryn in standard content. 

So yeah, the nerfs seem deserved at the moment. 

So you're angry that a maxed out meta Saryn can easily kill low level enemies... Wow, next you'll tell me the ignis is OP because when fully built it can outpace others that may or may not be fully maxed.

Btw if you think Mesa is somehow OP you're really reaching. The last time a Mesa out-DPSed my Valk, Mag, or even pre-rework Ember was an endurance defense. 

That's nice, you can outpace others in the one match. As I said before you have anecdotes and no real stats. I guess I'll play that game.

[DeMonkey]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

So jokes on you for supporting DE" is not a good answer nor is it a good business practice. 

Please don't use quotation marks for something I didn't say.

I'm merely saying the fault doesn't lie solely with DE, but with the players as well. If this is the sort of thing that annoys you or causes an upset, don't purchase goods that are explicitly subject to change.

[Chicken-Biryani]

Just now, Aadi880 said:

Don't think so. Last devstream showed a decrease in Catchmoon usage from 51% to 23%, in other words, less people uses the Catchmoon now. Because of this, DE does not plan to revert the change any time soon.

If you mean something else, do correct me.

I don't know about stats, all I can tell you is what my clanmates are using. They are still using it to clear tons of enemies easily (albeit a few more shots than earlier). I ignored fortuna and so I haven't used it yet, as I don't get enough time to rank up with SU, but if arca plasmor is anything to judge by, i would gladly exchange my atomos for a catchmoon when i can.

[Cubewano]

5 minutes ago, --C--Nehra said:

That's your opinion, and not the truth. Just like what i say is my opinion and not the complete truth. Saryn nerf is undeserved solely based on her performance in ESO. Also, if DE is going to advocate slow-paced gameplay, I doubt they will retain the entirety of their player base with this kind of direction. (I don't think they would go all the way towards this end, still, it's a worrying trend that they are following lately.)

It is my opinion, which is why I presented it as such. Thank you for taking notice. And I just cited examples outside ESO as to why it was warranted, so thanks for taking notice of that as well. It is interesting you think this game would be slow paced if Saryn didn't have her exact level of uninteractive over killing capabilities however. 

Glad to see your willing to have a conversation again though. 

[Rivyn]

1 minute ago, --C--Nehra said:

Because that's what is going to happen. A lot of people have been asking for nerfs to nuke frames and advocating a slower paced playstyle to be enforced upon everyone. If you have been a regular at the forums, you'd find how justified people's fears are.

I've been here since beta, and I can say from experience, most of the groaning is because people don't like change. Look at the recent melee changes. People screamed that it would be the death of melee, yet were proven wrong. Look at Vauban/Ember reworks. Loved those, though i don't play them myself. 

[8faiNt]

20 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Don't think so. Last devstream showed a decrease in Catchmoon usage from 51% to 23%, in other words, less people uses the Catchmoon now. Because of this, DE does not plan to revert the change any time soon.

If you mean something else, do correct me.

Its because using a catchmoon is a luxery now. 

many people neither have the plat nor the patient to find a riven to minmax catchmoon's fall off 

fall off

Edited December 3, 2019 by 8faiNt

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

3 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

It's my opinion off of active experience with both versions of her kit. 

You can look at any number of videos of Saryn's potential and map clearing to see how she easily can invalidate group play. 

And they seem justified just fine to me, I think you're just a bit paranoid. 

Opinions can be wrong and obviously that opinion wasn't shared by the rest of the community.

I can look up a lot of builds where many frames do just that. You can't expect me to agree with a nerf simply because she kills enemies with 1000-2000 HP too well. She was designed to scale.

But hey you know what they say about a certain anatomical feature and assumptions... Keep this civil.

[Chicken-Biryani]

1 minute ago, Rivyn said:

I've been here since beta, and I can say from experience, most of the groaning is because people don't like change. Look at the recent melee changes. People screamed that it would be the death of melee, yet were proven wrong. Look at Vauban/Ember reworks. Loved those, though i don't play them myself. 

Recent melee rework made guns less efficient. I mean, I can get more out using melee than my guns. I am not a big fan of it. I didn't use slide crit spin to win either, so it's not that I am salty about anything over that. They failed to balance stuff, when their intentions were the opposite. 

[RX-3DR]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

Well for many it comes from nerfs. Nerfing others won't suddenly resurrect dead frames. It will just disincentivize the community to put work into your content and defeat the purpose of exilus/plexilus slots, umbral forma, and lenses.

Good grief. Dead frames happen because overwhelming options exist. Trying to pretend that people pick frames entirely in a vacuum is ridiculous. If all damage in the game got a 50% reduction, is the game immediately a dead game? Compare Frost for example. Effectively a "dead frame" for Mobile Defense, not because Snowglobe got nerfed but because Limbo can disable the entire room, completely removing the need to even fire a single bullet to complete the objective.