Regarding Pablo's recent stream about saryn

[Veridian]

Another batch of Inaros mains disguised as experienced Saryns, approving of nerfs I see.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Ver1dian

[Goodwill]

And I paid $200+ for a non-powercreep game. So it's counter-productive to use, "they should/shouldn't do this because customer" because I am a customer and my opinion as a customer disagrees with other customer's opinions.

I simply see us as two sides of the same coin. When DE flips the coin, some end up on top while others end up on the bottom and DE needs to roll with the outcome. You can't flip both a head and a tail at the same time.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Goodwill

[24ANGELS]

Can i please have my umbra forma back? I don't mind the 2 tennogen skins i have for her since afterall that's purchaseable. But umbra formas are scarce. Thanks.

[Chicken-Biryani]

1 minute ago, 24ANGELS said:

Can i please have my umbra forma back? I don't mind the 2 tennogen skins i have for her since afterall that's purchaseable. But umbra formas are scarce. Thanks.

I put 2 umbra forma on my Saryn Prime... 

Edited December 3, 2019 by --C--Nehra

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

Just now, RX-3DR said:

Good grief. Dead frames happen because overwhelming options exist. Trying to pretend that people pick frames entirely in a vacuum is ridiculous. If all damage in the game got a 50% reduction, is the game immediately a dead game? Compare Frost for example. Effectively a "dead frame" for Mobile Defense, not because Snowglobe got nerfed but because Limbo can disable the entire room, completely removing the need to even fire a single bullet to complete the objective.

More often than not, no. Dead frames often happen because a frame is considered "too OP", and is subsequently reworked or outright nerfed into oblivion. Mag, Ash, Ember, and many others are proof of this.

Yet Frost is still more liked than Limbo for many things because his ability isn't annoying to the point of inhibiting gameplay. 

I'll play devil's advocate for a few.

But yeah sure, so next we need to nerf Limbo, then what? Mesa? How about killing armor scaling and invalidating 4 or 5 frames simultaneously?

[zoffmode]

41 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

"I decided the pizza you bought wasnt healthy for you so I turned it into a salad. No refunds."- this is essentially what happens every time they break something people invest their time and money in. 

And I know, (I already see someone typing) "but sometimes nerfs are needed!" But DE has a track record of going overboard with nerfs and breaking things completely. 

 

It's more like changing rides at amusement park after people buy their passes. Some people will be pissed their favorite attractions aren't as good anymore, but ultimately the goal is to make the amusement park more fun for everyone.

That being said, I'm not really happy with how DE balances either.

[Rivyn]

3 minutes ago, 24ANGELS said:

Can i please have my umbra forma back? I don't mind the 2 tennogen skins i have for her since afterall that's purchaseable. But umbra formas are scarce. Thanks.

Did they give them back to Ember/Vauban users? Honest question, because I don't know. If they did, then I'd assume they would do the same for Saryn.

[Cubewano]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

So you're angry that a maxed out meta Saryn can easily kill low level enemies... Wow, next you'll tell me the ignis is OP because when fully built it can outpace others that may or may not be fully maxed.

Btw if you think Mesa is somehow OP you're really reaching. The last time a Mesa out-DPSed my Valk, Mag, or even pre-rework Ember was an endurance defense. 

That's nice, you can outpace others in the one match. As I said before you have anecdotes and no real stats. I guess I'll play that game.

Not angry, just realistic, she can invalidate play for others in a co-op centric game, that's bad design and something that deserves rebalancing on its own, that it operates so efficiently on its own compounds on that matter. If the Ignis did the same (which i do sort of believe it does to some extent) I'd also argue it needs rebalancing. It's not a matter of just doing well however, it's a matter of being on levels that can't properly be competed with or can cross into invalidating other aspects of play. The game having power progression in and of itself is fine and central to its design.

And if you want pure stats I'll reach out to Pablo or Rebecca sometime, but you do have to use some level of just basic reasoning to these things since neither of us are clearly going to have access to DE's database. I can also collect more experiences on my own, but I do try not to gravitate towards public play with Saryn for the exact reasons I've been citing here, she's not a friendly co-op frame. 

[Chicken-Biryani]

1 minute ago, Cubewano said:

Not angry, just realistic, she can invalidate play for others in a co-op centric game, that's bad design and something that deserves rebalancing on its own, that it operates so efficiently on its own compounds on that matter. If the Ignis did the same (which i do sort of believe it does to some extent) I'd also argue it needs rebalancing. It's not a matter of just doing well however, it's a matter of being on levels that can't properly be competed with or can cross into invalidating other aspects of play. The game having power progression in and of itself is fine and central to its design.

And if you want pure stats I'll reach out to Pablo or Rebecca sometime, but you do have to use some level of just basic reasoning to these things since neither of us are clearly going to have access to DE's database. I can also collect more experiences on my own, but I do try not to gravitate towards public play with Saryn for the exact reasons I've been citing here, she's not a friendly co-op frame. 

Big words... All it really translates to is this... *I can't have fun with Saryn, so I don't want to see others having fun either*.

Newsflash for you, if you are doing a nuke related mission (like ESO) you will find nuke related frames more often than Atlases and Banshees and Titanias. All your bickering translates to one thing... You don't like fast and efficient gameplay since you don't see value in it, hence you support nerfs for such playstyles blindly and jealously. 

[Xaero]

30 minutes ago, --C--Nehra said:

So it's the consumer's fault now? Good... Certain people can never fault the company but always point something the consumer does is responsible for the scammy mechanics. Good!

Pff, no, blame the company all you want, but you're also to blame if you fall for the same thing every time. Warframe is the game with pretty consistent nerf mentality, why do people so sensitive to nerfs play it and spend money on it? To complain later?

Edited December 3, 2019 by Xaero

[24ANGELS]

8 minutes ago, Rivyn said:

Did they give them back to Ember/Vauban users? Honest question, because I don't know. If they did, then I'd assume they would do the same for Saryn.

I have been searching the forums but haven't found anything. I like to think that if you contact support they would solve the issue due to the "special" properties of umbra formas. Hope someone can clarify.

[Cubewano]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)Almighty Deity said:

Opinions can be wrong and obviously that opinion wasn't shared by the rest of the community.

I can look up a lot of builds where many frames do just that. You can't expect me to agree with a nerf simply because she kills enemies with 1000-2000 HP too well. She was designed to scale.

But hey you know what they say about a certain anatomical feature and assumptions... Keep this civil.

Shared by some, not by others, that's the way large communities go, nothing is universal. Same could be said of your stance. It's a non-point. 

And yeah Saryn isn't the only problem child for this issue, but that doesn't make it less of an issue, unless you throwing your cap in the ring in defense of the style of balance where a single frame can kill enemies so harshly there isn't anything left for the rest of a group to engage with? I'm also not seeing how being meant to scale has anything to do with the kind of aoe dominance frames like Saryn have, those aren't interwoven ideals, many frames scale well, few wind up with this complication as a result, heck the best scaling frame in the game doesn't have this complication with group play. 

But yes, I would appreciate you keeping this civil. 

 

[traybong111]

1 minute ago, --C--Nehra said:

Big words... All it really translates to is this... *I can't have fun with Saryn, so I don't want to see others having fun either*.

Newsflash for you, if you are doing a nuke related mission (like ESO) you will find nuke related frames more often than Atlases and Banshees and Titanias. All your bickering translates to one thing... You don't like fast and efficient gameplay since you don't see value in it, hence you support nerfs for such playstyles blindly and jealously. 

lmao I know it's a Warframe forum when someone makes the pathetic "ur juss jelouss about my bigger numbers!!!1" argument. 

The more childish crying I see, the more certain I am that DE will nerf her. It's been the same pattern for last 7 years. 

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

1 minute ago, Cubewano said:

Not angry, just realistic, she can invalidate play for others in a co-op centric game, that's bad design and something that deserves rebalancing on its own, that it operates so efficiently on its own compounds on that matter. If the Ignis did the same (which i do sort of believe it does to some extent) I'd also argue it needs rebalancing. It's not a matter of just doing well however, it's a matter of being on levels that can't properly be competed with or can cross into invalidating other aspects of play. The game having power progression in and of itself is fine and central to its design.

And if you want pure stats I'll reach out to Pablo or Rebecca sometime, but you do have to use some level of just basic reasoning to these things since neither of us are clearly going to have access to DE's database. I can also collect more experiences on my own, but I do try not to gravitate towards public play with Saryn for the exact reasons I've been citing here, she's not a friendly co-op frame. 

So can any frame at some point. I haven't run into more than a handful in my whole roughly 3,000 hours played since the rework. That's again your opinion about it being bad Design. If you're competing in a PvE game I think you're doing something wrong. 

I simply don't want to hear your opinions on things presented as if they're fact. Saying a fodder frame specifically picked because she neither CC'd nor killed past level 20 is more balanced than currently simply because now she can 3 tick kill level 20's with the optimal build minmaxed with corrupted mods and designed to kill level 200's is simply not a fair assessment.

   But hey let's forget about the multitude of other issues of random group play and just focus on the 5% of the time where you have to see a Saryn.

[Chicken-Biryani]

1 minute ago, traybong111 said:

lmao I know it's a Warframe forum when someone makes the pathetic "ur juss jelouss about my bigger numbers!!!1" argument. 

The more childish crying I see, the more certain I am that DE will nerf her. It's been the same pattern for last 7 years. 

Newsflash for you: I play solo, and I recommend it to others too, because as long as you play public, people are going to judge you for one thing or another. So get that childish smirk off your face and read my other replies like a mature adult. If my solo play is disturbing you to the extent that you want to make whining posts about how it should be nerfed, than you need to re-evaluate yourself. 

[(XBOX)Almighty Deity]

1 minute ago, Cubewano said:

Shared by some, not by others, that's the way large communities go, nothing is universal. Same could be said of your stance. It's a non-point. 

And yeah Saryn isn't the only problem child for this issue, but that doesn't make it less of an issue, unless you throwing your cap in the ring in defense of the style of balance where a single frame can kill enemies so harshly there isn't anything left for the rest of a group to engage with? I'm also not seeing how being meant to scale has anything to do with the kind of aoe dominance frames like Saryn have, those aren't interwoven ideals, many frames scale well, few wind up with this complication as a result, heck the best scaling frame in the game doesn't have this complication with group play. 

But yes, I would appreciate you keeping this civil. 

 

Stats don't lie. Based on why they buffed her there was a general consensus that she was indeed crap.

But hey, it's conversations like this why people can't have nice things. I don't even use Saryn all that much. I do, however know where this slippery slope ends. Rather than fixing the core of the issue through more difficult content or content requiring more status and co-operation the simplest solution to the narrow-minded community is to call for a nerf. It won't fix the issue, unless the issue was anyone using that frame in the first place. There's what are called half measures and full measures. This would be a half measure and those rarely genuinely fix the issue.

Don't call others paranoid of nerfs then proclaim others are being uncivil. Casting stones from the porch of your glass house isn't advisable.

[Cubewano]

6 minutes ago, --C--Nehra said:

Big words... All it really translates to is this... *I can't have fun with Saryn, so I don't want to see others having fun either*.

Newsflash for you, if you are doing a nuke related mission (like ESO) you will find nuke related frames more often than Atlases and Banshees and Titanias. All your bickering translates to one thing... You don't like fast and efficient gameplay since you don't see value in it, hence you support nerfs for such playstyles blindly and jealously. 

I actually enjoy Saryn a good amount, I just acknowledge her flaws as well, and recognize she could overall be made a more enjoyable fit for the entire game, rather than just for selfish/personal play. 

Like sorties? Exterminate? Survivals? Defense? What isn't a nuke related mission when they're universally effective? And how does any of the change the impact she can have on the gameplay? You're not actually addressing that pivotal part of the conversation, and what the grievance around her is about. 

The last bit I'm going to ignore because we're both better than mud slinging. 

[traybong111]

1 minute ago, --C--Nehra said:

Newsflash for you: I play solo, and I recommend it to others too, because as long as you play public, people are going to judge you for one thing or another. So get that childish smirk off your face and read my other replies like a mature adult. If my solo play is disturbing you to the extent that you want to make whining posts about how it should be nerfed, than you need to re-evaluate yourself. 

I don't give 2 fecal matters about how you play. Yours was just the latest whinepost that reminded me of a certain behavioral pattern seen over many years. The harder people like you whine about their toys getting taken away, the more likely it is that DE considers that toy to warrant another look. 

[SECURATYYY]

I used my first umbral forma on Saryn because it was an obvious choice for me. ESO and all that.

 

That being said, she needs to be reigned in. Don't nerf her into the ground, but she is a problem. I think everyone knows she is a problem, hence the running joke.

[Chicken-Biryani]

1 minute ago, traybong111 said:

I don't give 2 fecal matters about how you play. Yours was just the latest whinepost that reminded me of a certain behavioral pattern seen over many years. The harder people like you whine about their toys getting taken away, the more likely it is that DE considers that toy to warrant another look. 

Neither do I give 3 bovine fecal cakes about how you play. You called me childish, when you exhibited the childish behaviour yourself and now you are the one who introduced the first intellectual cuss words in your subsequent reply. Carry on... 

[Firetempest]

Since his original post was nuked with the out of control topic. He's had to post this over and over and over with everyone jumping down his throat.

 

[Mr.Fluffins]

What is other people's deal with Saryn and other nuke frames out damaging them in ESO?? I don't bring my Saryn to an Eidolon hunt or Profit taker and then complain on the forums that a Chroma is much more useful and should be nerfed.

Different frames work better for different situations. ESO, exterminate, defence are not the entire game.

[Chicken-Biryani]

4 minutes ago, SECURATYYY said:

I used my first umbral forma on Saryn because it was an obvious choice for me. ESO and all that.

 

That being said, she needs to be reigned in. Don't nerf her into the ground, but she is a problem. I think everyone knows she is a problem, hence the running joke.

The problem is, when they nerf her, she is in danger of becoming unviable for solo ESO play, which is all I am concerned about. I really wish they don't do anything stupid to her. 

[Chicken-Biryani]

1 minute ago, Mr.Fluffins said:

What is other people's deal with Saryn and other nuke frames out damaging them in ESO?? I don't bring my Saryn to an Eidolon hunt or Profit taker and then complain on the forums that a Chroma is much more useful and should be nerfed.

Different frames work better for different situations. ESO, exterminate, defence are not the entire game.

Well, that's the way with these people... Rather than focusing on what they enjoy, they focus on what they hate and in the process ask for everyone to play the way they want to play. 

[SECURATYYY]

1 minute ago, --C--Nehra said:

The problem is, when they nerf her, she is in danger of becoming unviable for solo ESO play, which is all I am concerned about. I really wish they don't do anything stupid to her. 

Same here brother. They have the tendency to overdo it.

 

I miss Ash. 😞