What Even Is Endgame?

[xcrimsonlegendx]

Complaining on the forums is the true endgame.

[CandyManCriminal]

Bopp Bipp is the true end game

[Talinthis]

55 minutes ago, Vyra said:

The real Endgame:

hrm... i guess i have a long ways to go, have never seen that

[Kaizal]

On 2019-12-03 at 4:59 AM, Urulai said:

  I've heard a lot of chatter over the years about Endgame this, Endgame that.  I'm starting to suspect that it is a thing with ever shifting goal posts that means different things for the different players and that the developers have totally different thought processes on this compared to their player base.
 The entire problem is definition.  Warframe isn't really a game with an end goal in and of itself, its a process type game not a product game.  The core gameplay loop is the part that is intended to be enjoyed from what I can observe.
  So I think the community as a whole must Decide what Endgame even means and there should be a proper discussion between players and devs not just wishing into a well like some players seem to like doing or trying to force what they thing is best on everyone else.
 

Imma tell you exactly what "Endgame" means, there are 2 ways in wich this is used, first for the memes, for example: >>insert random bullS#&amp;&#036; about warframe here<< is the true endgame.

And then you got the crybaby so called "vets"(to be fair, not all that call themselves vets are crybaby's, but it sure works the other way around) that view themselves as the enlightened master race of Warframe. They used this term when they are bored af of the game, but don't know how to live without it, so they dream of a gamemode that gives them more rewards the longer they can stay in mission, is difficult, and NEVER GETS BORING(because that's what they want the most), completely ignoring the impossibility of this concept.

This breed of player is often the same that craves "scaling rewards", because being able to play for 8 consecutive hours non-stop should be rewarded more than playing 1 hour every day, for 8 days in a row(a TON more), why? Well because the difficulty should scale to justify the rewards.

Obviously they think about this delusional concept without giving it a moments though on how this concept challenges the very fabric of how this game is built. And that is, a fundamentally easy game, where no gamemode should be much more rewarding than any other, because the game is designed around an in-game economy that depends on that.

But hey what do I know, im guess im just a dumb normie pleb who fights against the people that want Warframe to be better out of sheer fanaticism for never critizing our lords, the Warframe devs. Guess im gonna do Warframe vids complaining about everything and acting entitled, while pretending im wise so the Wokeness(yes I prolly made that word up) comes to me, and then I can finally "understand" the brilliance in all these ill-defined concepts.

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

Well since the game is not really a hardcore game.  But does have lots of stuff to collect and tons of things to do at different levels.

The question reallly is what do you want out of the game?  What do you enjoy?  What do you use games for?

If you are like me.  Then warframe is fun as is just to crack skulls and relieve stress.

If challenge alone is your goal then warframe is not going to have long time value.  Since once you collect everything and min max it.  The game isn't really that hard.

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by (PS4)Kakurine2

[MysticDragonMage]

endgame is just whatever content you feel like investing your time in. dojo decorating, a fully upgraded favorite weapon, arbitration, the platinum trade, or achieving the maximum mastery rank possible is going to demand a lot of your time.

[Test-995]

Endgame is something we play at the end, for some it could be kuva, liches, floof, decoration, hoarding, or endless missions.

[Dr.Pepper23]

Fashionframe is endgame

[Salenzar]

On 2019-12-03 at 9:02 AM, --C--Nehra said:

Endgame is dojo decoration!

Dude knows what's up.

Toughest boss in the game is the decoration placement tool. 

[Violet_Xe]

   I think many players are confusing "Endgame Content" with "Sustainable and Challenging Content". I myself fell to this trap and only recently came to that conclusion. I'm still calling my post series "A Shot at Endgame" but that's because I don't really want to change it.

   This sustainable content is what we need, content which is replayable and has a retention for players that care for it. For example, Fashion Frame has a retention rate. You pay attention and carefully fine tune your colors then show off. I've spent about 50 hours on making beautiful nezha color schemes. This would be a sustainable form of content for some people, but not everyone likes that. Some people are after actual challenging content which can be replayed over and over again. This is one reason why ascension, paragon, and seasonal resets are added in some games like Destiny 2, PoE, and Diablo 3 which are all competitors to warframe's grinding audience.
   DE seems to lack the ability to create and even comprehend such content as I recently found DKDiamante's first LoR raid and there he played with a DE staff. LoR was apparently very challenging for DE because their staff member couldn't understand what was happening even though they made the game. rebecca also took a long time to kill the wolf in tac's video where we delete it in seconds. They don't play the game to the extent we do or have the faintest Idea of how to make difficult content which is why we get stuff like solo tridelon 3 times a night.
   DE also can't seem to pinpoint how to make a goal in the game either. What exactly is the goal of warframe after you complete the star chart? Nobody knows, so we do whatever we want. A linear progression instantly devolves into a sloppy web of mixed opinions and content of were the game should go resulting in chaos incarnate. You can see that people being left to brew on their own will lose hope, poke fun at DE's expense, and laugh off their lack of rightfully deserved content. Fashionframe, Loginframe, Rivenframe, Ikeaframe, Forumframe, Lichframe, Arbiframe, Fishframe, Eidolonframe, Regionframe, THE CONCLAVE, and more.
   DE doesn't help either leaping from open worlds, to Railjack, to cinematic quests, to tile set revamps, and more. They refuse to even tell us where the game is going and when they make promises or tease stuff it's released years later. Railjack, Umbra, Vauban Rework Zephyr Deluxe. All aspects of warframe are subject to years of delay it seems, from cosmetics, to expansions, to quests, and promised and deserved reworks it's all not safe. This just adds to "what is endgame, what are we doing, why is this boring now" because nobody has any idea what DE has cooking or if it'll be any good. For any other game you can point how what they're doing and where their game is headed just by content release history alone yet strange warframe is an anomaly preaching about their transparency but won't tell us what their plans are. DE actually prides themselves on their curve balls and hiding information like lunaro but we couldn't give any feedback because it was just thrown at us.

   To actually answer your question "Sustainable Content" is replayable, interactive, and challenging content requiring an in depth understanding of game knowledge and mechanics. At the end you should get a reward which holds value to ALL players and avenues of the player base which will remain relevant for at least months after release which is called sustainable rewards. An example of sustainable rewards would be riven mods, forma, and endo to an extent.

10 hours ago, Kaizal said:

And then you got the crybaby so called "vets"(to be fair, not all that call themselves vets are crybaby's, but it sure works the other way around) that view themselves as the enlightened master race of Warframe. They used this term when they are bored af of the game, but don't know how to live without it, so they dream of a gamemode that gives them more rewards the longer they can stay in mission, is difficult, and NEVER GETS BORING(because that's what they want the most), completely ignoring the impossibility of this concept.

This breed of player is often the same that craves "scaling rewards", because being able to play for 8 consecutive hours non-stop should be rewarded more than playing 1 hour every day, for 8 days in a row(a TON more), why? Well because the difficulty should scale to justify the rewards.

Obviously they think about this delusional concept without giving it a moments though on how this concept challenges the very fabric of how this game is built. And that is, a fundamentally easy game, where no gamemode should be much more rewarding than any other, because the game is designed around an in-game economy that depends on that.

But hey what do I know, im guess im just a dumb normie pleb who fights against the people that want Warframe to be better out of sheer fanaticism for never critizing our lords, the Warframe devs. Guess im gonna do Warframe vids complaining about everything and acting entitled, while pretending im wise so the Wokeness(yes I prolly made that word up) comes to me, and then I can finally "understand" the brilliance in all these ill-defined concepts.

   Rood. We aren't delusional, we just want something worth playing... you know like games are meant to be. We're not the "enlightened master race" but we've got a good understanding of warframe's past and can call upon that. We simply have more info and first hand experience with most of this stuff than new players and that's an undeniable fact.
   Want to know why we say "don't pay attention to new players?" Well often times new players don't know what they're on about because they say "there's a ton of content what are you saying, you're entitled and dumb." It's either that or "This is too hard nerf shadow stalker/wolf please" and then it is so. When we finally get close to challenge DE putting this hard content in easily accessible areas just makes it impossible for both new players and old players to come to an understanding of one another. keep in mind we are actually entitled to some extent because we invested in this game. Hundreds of dollars, thousands of hours, and countless memories were put into this game.
   To those of us that have literally everything and I mean EVERYTHING, there is no content. Players have all cosmetics, all frames, all weapons, all maxed on forma and arcanes, all rivens they want. There's nothing to earn anymore and worse there's no fun place to fight with these powerful weapons. Now I... am not one of these players, wooow. I'm someone who only has 1/3 of the game's items but that's fine because that's all I care about. You can't demand someone to go appreciate content they won't appreciate. I won't go out and find all the content just cause it exists when I know I won't like it.
   We use scaling rewards as an example for this difficult content because it means players won't want to leave and push themselves to the limits. Saying that were crazy for liking to fight high level enemies is making yourself look stupid because it's what's fun for them. It's just as fun and rewarding as fashion frame for people. You'd also be crazy to say that because if we work for 8 hours in a survival and show flawless mastery of the games systems we expect to be rewarded more than someone who pops in and out every 20 minutes.

   I know how the "fabric of warframe" is built and I know how scaling rewards would make the game. I have literally trained myself to see from a developer's perspective and player's perspective to concept fairly and provide constructive quality feedback even if it's polarizing to many players. Gamemodes should be more rewarding than each other but have advantages over others. Rescue is the only mission to get specters, a key reason why players play it. Captures grant omni ammo restores which is why players play that. Quick and easy missions like capture, exterminate, etc etc make for quick and easy relic openings too.
   Yet endless missions get shafted with numerous issues and sometimes they don't ever get fixed and become doomed to the abyss of mission fodder like Infested Salvage. It's disappointing because the foundation of endless missions is providing scaling content and valuable rewards to test player skill the longer they go. Endless missions have by far the most potential of any and all missions of warframe but the issues created by the game systems cripple the budding possibilities that could arise from such missions. Scaling Rewards are simply the easiest, most popular, and realistic suggestion given up to this point.

   Now take this post with a grain of salt because I don't use the term "veteran" as a status symbol I'm using because that's literally what I and others are. We have information you simply haven't experienced. That doesn't mean your opinions and ideas are invalid and inferior to ours it simply means it may be biased or untrue. "Veteran" is a classification, not a title people should wear like a crown. If someone looks down on you just because they are one, fk em because new players are the lifeline of warframe. Without opinions from all playtimes and all walks of warframe the game would stagnate and rot. I'd love to deliberate on this more and go in depth about this but I have stuff to do so if I get responses I'll get back to em in a bit, maybe a couple hours.

[FRTE_Ret5o]

Well, the question whats endgame, in warframe. Depensd on the context and content realeased in game. ESO, arbitrations. Even 3-4h survival rounds, its puting your skils moding and playing put to the test.

And coud be argued even if endgame in a game that improves constantly, it only depends on the context. 

Maybe after full realease of empyrean we will be saying "hey this new X is the endgame". 

Btw expecting that sweet realease want to beat those concients

[(PSN)Station2D-]

En 3/12/2019 a las 2:59, Urulai dijo:

I've heard a lot of chatter over the years about Endgame this, Endgame that.  I'm starting to suspect that it is a thing with ever shifting goal posts that means different things for the different players and that the developers have totally different thought processes on this compared to their player base.
 The entire problem is definition.  Warframe isn't really a game with an end goal in and of itself, its a process type game not a product game.  The core gameplay loop is the part that is intended to be enjoyed from what I can observe.
  So I think the community as a whole must Decide what Endgame even means and there should be a proper discussion between players and devs not just wishing into a well like some players seem to like doing or trying to force what they thing is best on everyone else.

Endgame is a way of referring to the limit or limits of a game, the interesting thing starts here, the Endgame is bad for games, as I said earlier: "Endgame is the limit or limits of a game" and that means after completing those limits there is nothing else and that is bad because that's where the boredom begins, what developers should do is Neverending content or Sustainable content even when they don't update the game (because adding new content is a way to avoid Endgame) , another way to avoid Endgame is to avoid simplicity and make complexity (complex things are more entertaining and more durable than simple things), there are some categories of games that have known how to avoid Endgame such as: "Sandbox games, Survival games , RPG games " one of those examples is Minecraft and Subnautica although those two games still have much to improve, that means that the players who ask for Endgame and the developers that offer Endgame are ignorants? Yes...