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10-08

Ideas for Garuda rework!

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Hello fellow Tenno

I've seen a few posts on Garuda, her issues and the desire for a rework, and more or less I agree with nearly everything people point out about what makes her a sub-par frame and these are my thoughts on what would make Garuda a viable, fun frame to play and keeping her in line with what I believe DE intended for her play style without making her a "kek press 4 to win OP frame trope"

Her passive/base stats/stats progression; HER PASSIVE IS AMAZING! I love it it's fantastic, strong as f**k and with her 3rd ability "Bloodletting" and built for it, it is obvious that this frame is supposed to be built around a quick thinking/primed flow/adaptation build for survivability, except her stat progression definitely doesn't support this, her health and shields cap at a 200% bonus at rank 30 and her energy a +125% bonus at rank 30. Now we all know shields are trash (unless you're Hildryn)  and when your doing the quick thinking thing and your trying to keep your hp at 2 to get the maximum benefit from your passive increasing your HP is pointless. Armor however still plays a part of damage reduction before quick thinking energy/damage calculation so what would make far more sense is something along the lines of +300% energy at rank 30 and +200% armor. not even touching hp/shields, now I understand that is not a particularly likely way for things to go and with 100 shields she would b more or less impossible to bring to a hijack mission (unless her energy could be drained instead of shields similar to how nidus/inaros drain HP instead), that would just be a "optimal" stat progression for her for 95% of content, what would be more useful and still maintain a "3 different stat increase standard" would be 200% energy 200% shields and 125% armor (compared to her current stat progression its just swapping different stats around keeping the same percentages).

DREAD MIRROR:
Is bad, that's all there is too it. The time to build up charge for the "release damage" to be useful more or less makes no difference compared to a fully charged opticor shot, tigris/exergis shot Lenz and many other weapons. and the damage block wall is in no way unique *cough Volt's electric shield cough cough* and while the 40% of max hp finisher effect is colorful its more or less just that, pretty but pointless, the only thing I use this for the purpose of killing an enemy is extreme leveled eximus nox's against everything else I'm gonna save time just continuing to shoot/stab an enemy with whatever i used to bring them to 40% hp in the first place.
INSTEAD:
The two things Garuda lacks as a frame you want to bring as a team is CC and a buff. It could be argued that Blood Alter is a team buffing ability as a HP restore but I'll touch on that next and Garuda IMO doesn't fit as a CC, if she were she would have something to that effect right? So given how much of a nerd-on I have for her passive my suggestion is to make her 1st ability a buff that affects herself and allies based on her passive "counter", at 100-51% health (0-50% passive effect) casting would apply a damage reduction buff and at 50-1% (51-100% passive effect) casting applies a attack speed and fire rate/reload speed buff. Whether both buffs can apply at the same time with recasting at different health values or one replaces the other would have to depend on the potency of the buff. However given that Garuda can actively fluctuate her hp with blood altar/bloodletting I would be inclined to allow her to apply both buffs simultaneously making optimizing the buffs require a little more work than smashing 1 button every 20/30/40 seconds whatever its duration becomes. I would rename this accordingly to something like "VISAGE OF DREAD AND WOE"

BLOOD ALTAR:
Garuda has some amazing sh*t going for her, Blood altar can be amazing as a team ability (ignoring some bugs around it **glaring angrily at healer ancients**) however as a stationary effect with a very small aoe it more or less defeats its own purpose as a sustained team heal. Whenever I use it baring a defense objective I'm in it for about 1 MAYBE 2 seconds before moving on and even on defense missions your confining yourself to a small space and making a easy target of yourself. So more often than not this ability is used for the user and not the team and discarded almost immediately. Now to play into her chaotic berserker fluctuating hp modus operandi I would suggest that apon pressing 2, within a fair aoe enemies are hit with a impact proc and enemies take a percentage of their current health in damage and a total of that percentage is used to heal Garuda and excess healing applies to allies in range.
To get into the nitty gritty of the mechanics on this one as the above is a bit vague. I would make it do something in the region of 10% current health damage to enemies and the healing received from an enemy based on how much that health lost relates to their max hp. So a enemy with 100%HP takes 10% remaining health damage (10% total health damage and that unit applies a 10% max hp healing to Garuda) and a enemy at 50% hp takes 10% current remaining health damage (5% total health damage and that unit applies a 5% max hp healing to Garuda) so lets say 5 enemies at 100%hp and 10 enemies at 50%hp are affected by by this ability they all take 10% current health damage and heal Garuda 100% max hp, I would also make this ability affected by her passive so at 1% hp (100% passive bonus) she would do 20% current health damage so for 10 100% hp enemies she would gain 200% healing (fully healing and distributing 100% max healing over nearby allies (33.3% max hp each if all 3 teammates were in range. or possibly further split if made to affect other targets such as animal companions/sentinels certain defense objects, summoned allies specters etc) to clarify max hp healing would relate to their (allies) max hp values not Garuda's and if she were at 50% hp when casting and drained 200% hp of healing 50% would go to her then 150% to allies or if she was already at 100% hp it would all go into healing allies.
Keep in mind the primary focus of this ability is healing herself and to a lesser extent others. the damage dealt is negligible and isn't supposed to be the point of it, its supposed to be a mechanic to involve stealing health from her enemies, and with these mechanics it also gives the ability some measure of "optimal usage" throwing this out in a crowd of enemies already weakened and about to die from saryn's miasma isn't going to yield much of a benefit but being the 1st frame to dive into the enemies like a total badass will make it work wonders and with the impact proc it gives you the opportunity to jump in, and throw this out as a means of creating openings and planning your next move all in the heat of bloody battle! P.S. given that it's no longer making an "altar" I would call it something like "BLOOD FOUNT"

BLOODLETTING:
This ability is perfect the way it is don't touch it... EVER!... I MEAN IT!!...DON'T!
😛 I really love this ability can you tell 😄

SEEKING TALONS:
Now I have some mixed feelings in regards to this ability so ill start with the positives the debuff applied from this ability is A-F**KING-MAZING! Applying slash procs from ANY damage source including abilities makes this little gem a new and exciting way to buff other peoples damage on affected enemies whether they are using good old fashion lasers or face melting abilities! unfortunately 9/10 by the time your done max charging Seeking Talons to hit a nice AOE everything is already dead in the direction you want to cast (THANKS MESA!) so the fix to this one is pretty simple, single target no charge cast and the target +7 closest enemies are affected, and make the amount of maximum affected enemies increased by ability strength multiplier.

SUMMARY:
These changes would maintain much of her current job description but vastly improve her pacing and impact, the changes to stat progression would make her a very survivable frame when using Quick Thinking/Flow/Adaptation build (sure it would be the ONLY way to make her survivable but it makes the best use of her passive anyway and its not like you don't go only hp build on nidus/inaros or shields on hildryn anyway, the right build for the right stats.. right?).
And these changes to her abilities have her offering more to the team, improves functionality and plays into what I feel is her intended fast paced hit 'n' run playstyle.

Wow this became rather long didn't it? High-fives for you if you read the whole thing and thanks for checking it out 🙂 I'd love to hear your input, whether you approve or otherwise and what you might think would work better!

  • Haha 2

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Nothing is wrong with garuda. players just dont play her. she scales and she tanks.

and its LITERALLY  impossible to die with her. 

Edited by 8faiNt
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17 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

Nothing is wrong with garuda. players just dont play her. she scales and she tanks.

and its LITERALLY  impossible to die with her. 

I wouldn't say "nothing." For example, the lack of visibility of what exactly you can affect with your 4 is a massive problem considering enemies come from all sides and seeking talons acts as projectiles. I've evidence of something directly in front of me not getting affected while an enemy across the room was marked. It affecting a radius would be a simple fix to this.

She is far from the worst warframe in the game, but I'd accept improvements nonetheless. 

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I use every single one of garuda's abilities. I can't say that for more than half the warframe arsenal. I believe Garuda is an excellent Warframe and is in a great place right now. I actually think frames like Frost, Banshee, Nyx, and Loki would be more deserving of a rework/touch up. Actually the frame i'd like to see fixed up the most is Grendel, but whatever, thats probably not gonna happen for a few years because... DE dev cycle.

1 hour ago, 10-08 said:

DREAD MIRROR:
Is bad, that's all there is too it

No offense but when you say something like that it makes me think you are unqualified to recommend what skills should be/do on Garuda. Dread Mirror is an incredibly powerful damage avoidance ability + a decently powerful aoe nuke. It's better than most 1 abilities to be honest with you. Banshee, Frost, Loki, and Nyx (funny how that works, I'm seeing a theme!!) all have 1 abilities that i would not take over Dread mirror.

Edited by Skaleek
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is this a joke ? garuda is one of the best designed frames ingame. she has weaknesses and strenghts, she has literally endless scaling which doesnt care about enemy defenses as long as a player uses all of her kit properly.

suggesting a rework for her is as pointless as it gets...there are many older frames which do need one...like valkyr, just to name one very old frame.

no offense but i actually wonder...do u actually know her kit ? have u actually played around with her ? i cant imagine anyone who knows garuda well to suggest a rework...

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I enjoy playing Garuda in her current state and can't say that about many frames. I have 2 issues with her currently, I don't like the weird picture frame and wish it was something more subtle/less obtrusive and that she's very noisy.

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41 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

Nothing is wrong with garuda. players just dont play her. she scales and she tanks.

and its LITERALLY  impossible to die with her. 

That is exagerated, but i feel the same, also even her tank buid can do a lot of death, specially now that slash is king.

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18 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

is this a joke ? garuda is one of the best designed frames ingame. she has weaknesses and strenghts, she has literally endless scaling which doesnt care about enemy defenses as long as a player uses all of her kit properly.

suggesting a rework for her is as pointless as it gets...there are many older frames which do need one...like valkyr, just to name one very old frame.

no offense but i actually wonder...do u actually know her kit ? have u actually played around with her ? i cant imagine anyone who knows garuda well to suggest a rework...

I concur if we were to survey which frames are more in need of a rework, then Garuda wouldn't be high on that list; however, I think it wise that we stop murdering discussions when they come up because "it's not time." I don't think it impossible to ask "Hey as a Garuda player, what would you change if she were to get a rework?" OP may not be aiming in the direction you would and I would reply as if OP was answering that question.

Is dread mirror actually bad?

Is her passive really perfect and without flaw?

 

 

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Synpai:

I concur if we were to survey which frames are more in need of a rework, then Garuda wouldn't be high on that list; however, I think it wise that we stop murdering discussions when they come up because "it's not time." I don't think it impossible to ask "Hey as a Garuda player, what would you change if she were to get a rework?" OP may not be aiming in the direction you would and I would reply as if OP was answering that question.

Is dread mirror actually bad?

Is her passive really perfect and without flaw?

 

 

wasted effort when there are enough other frames with problems tbh. im no judge, im just stating my opinion, but to me its wasted to discuss a design thats still totally fine even if maybe not "the meta". there are as mentioned frames which lack in comparison due to age for example, so focussing on these more severe cases 1st is more important in my opinion. if garuda had a glaring issue that made her incapable of certain things yea, no question asked, but shes incredibly powerful...just not a frame for people who prefer to press 1 button every 5 minutes and that doesnt make her any worse...or better.

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5 hours ago, 8faiNt said:

Nothing is wrong with garuda. players just dont play her. she scales and she tanks.

and its LITERALLY  impossible to die with her. 

was going to say that.

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She needs some tweaks as she struggles after a couple of waves in arbitrations. More so vs corpus and grineer.

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4 hours ago, JoJoshuee_DesK said:

Ho9yfd2.gif

I finished reading when I got to that part. Lol

Same here

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6 hours ago, 8faiNt said:

players just dont play her. she scales and she tanks.

May have said this numerous times too, but Garuda requires more effort than being as easy as Mesa or Inaros. Some people frown upon building up this effort, only to go down the path of least resistance that gives instant results.

The fairly recent buffs to her made Garuda even more powerful with less requirement from mods (you only need 135% Strength to get 100% Status on Seeking Talons instead of 200% back then).

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34 minutes ago, Chaemyerelis said:

She needs some tweaks as she struggles after a couple of waves in arbitrations. More so vs corpus and grineer.

Struggles? how? She scales as the enemy scales which is something very good in the game. and quick thinking + her energy giving ability + hirudo combo is utter broken.

I just think your build isnt efficient enough

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2 minutes ago, Duality52 said:

May have said this numerous times too, but Garuda requires more effort than being as easy as Mesa or Inaros. Some people frown upon building up this effort, only to go down the path of least resistance that gives instant results.

The fairly recent buffs to her made Garuda even more powerful with less requirement from mods (you only need 135% Strength to get 100% Status on Seeking Talons instead of 200% back then).

yeah thats true she has to be more active 

but that makes her fun, right? i mean at least I enjoy it

Edited by 8faiNt
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4 minutes ago, 8faiNt said:

but that makes her fun, right? i mean at least I enjoy it

Me too. It gets so stale to see the same frames like Inaros, Mesa, Saryn, and so forth. If said people playing these frames aren't having fun, only to just get the mission done and over, then that's an issue.

It's also no wonder why there are complaints like this where overshadowed frames like Garuda are claimed "underpowered" where they need a rework. Just because "X" is better than "Y", does not mean "Y" is bad at all.

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1 hour ago, 8faiNt said:

Struggles? how? She scales as the enemy scales which is something very good in the game. and quick thinking + her energy giving ability + hirudo combo is utter broken.

I just think your build isnt efficient enough

The biggest issue I recall were arbitration drones removed her blood alter and in the end you just had to either run away or rely on a strong weapon and if you're just going to rely on weaponry you might as well just bring inaros. Also at a certain point she will just get insta deleted even in a blood alter. The amount of work it took just to keep her alive in arbitrations just wasn't worth the hassle and your better off bringing a handful of other frames who perform in arbitrations much much better; new ember for example.

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I've been maining her for quite some time, and I agree with most people in this thread that Garuda is not only extremely powerful when played right and very well balanced, but also in my opinion one of the most fun frames in the game once you get the hang of her.

I used to main Saryn, and although she is ungodly powerful, she just bores me. Most of the game becomes trivial. Hence my shift to Garuda #Bestgirl.

 

Anyway, sticking to the spirit of the thread, here are some thing I would actually like to see changed:

  • Her 5 seconds immortality Dread Mirror Augment (Dread Ward) is just crap. In content you can sustain this, it is not needed, and in content where it is needed, it is not sustainable. Also just not necessary. My proposal:
    • Just make it change the mirror into a x% damage reduction buff instead. Simple yet effective.
  • Garuda's Claws is also sadly sub-par. I mean, they are not terrible, but there are so many melee weapons that vastly outperform them. Not to mention you can't even get a riven on them to boost the already meh stats like you can with other weapons. My proposal:
    • Either just buff their stats a bit, or give them some unique, thematic ability. Like they gain x% attack speed or x% damage increase for each enemy effected by seeking talons.
  • Speaking of Garuda's Claws and Dread mirror, it would be fantastic if dread mirror's leap damage scaled on the damage of Garuda's claws.

 

I'll add more if I can think of any.

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19 minutes ago, BillyMancer said:

Anyway, sticking to the spirit of the thread, here are some thing I would actually like to see changed:

  • Her 5 seconds immortality Dread Mirror Augment (Dread Ward) is just crap. In content you can sustain this, it is not needed, and in content where it is needed, it is not sustainable. Also just not necessary. My proposal:
    • Just make it change the mirror into a x% damage reduction buff instead. Simple yet effective.

I can agree with this. The Augment for Dread Mirror is pretty useless even when doing a Solo Mot,Void run since most of the time, she’s blocking the Enemy’s damage while shooting or just one hit bleeding out the enemies. At times where you can pull off the 10% Health Threshold, it’s either at levels where her risk is high or she can survive without it completely. 

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I have an idea for a Garuda rework: DON'T. Garuda is one of those rare frames that has synergies between all 4 abilities and manages to stay relevant well past Sortie 3. She only starts to fall off once you get into oneshot territory, and at that point everyone falls off. If you think Garuda is underpowered, try playing her rather than just reading her wiki page. Though I wouldn't mind some QoL like making Blood Altar less interruptable (looking at you, Ancient Healers) or more augments.

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Garuda is so good that she's barely seen in public games...very perfectly designed frame. Maybe for other games but not for warframe.

Dread Mirror only shields you from the front and not even 100% safely and the damage you can dish out usually takes too much time whereas with weapons you would remove enemies much faster. Only relevant for super high levels and when combined with team support such as octavia invis or limbo rift so you can jump from enemies without risking to get oneshot. And even then, there's better scaling abilities to kill enemies.

Blood Altar stuns up to 3 enemies and heals you and allies...when nowadays you get so many healing options so why bother staying in an area to heal when you can heal yourself so easy with arcanes now?

Bloodletting gives energy. Same deal with her 2 energy problems are a rarity nowadays for geared players. Regardless, it has a little purpose to keep her pumped up to keep spamming her 1 in long endurance runs and not worry about leech eximii at all.

Seeking Talons does little damage with the main purpose of allowing you to slash proc enemies with all sources. Unique. But handy? Hardly so. Always gotta recharge that ability and shoot it on enemies when with other frames you can just simply...buff your damage by a lot or strip armor off enemies and deal full damage on them instead of only slash procs. So, meh.

On 2019-12-03 at 2:25 PM, 10-08 said:

HER PASSIVE IS AMAZING! I love it it's fantastic, strong as f**k and with her 3rd ability "Bloodletting"

If you consider up to +100% damage "strong as f**k" then i don't wanna know what you think when you see what frames like Banshee, Mirage or Chroma can do.

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43 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

If you consider up to +100% damage "strong as f**k" then i don't wanna know what you think when you see what frames like Banshee, Mirage or Chroma can do.

+100% Multiplicative Damage buff that can calculate other Damage Buffs*
FTFY

So when you buff her with a Chroma, she could hit as hard as his old self.

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2 minutes ago, GPrime96 said:

+100% Multiplicative Damage buff that can calculate other Damage Buffs*
FTFY

So when you buff her with a Chroma, she could hit as hard as his old self.

No that's not how it works. Old chroma had an error in the math with resulted in elementals double and triple dipping and giving so much more damage than what it should've given. Garuda simply takes any damage she would dish out and multiplies it by 2. At the cost of being able to die through any sneeze if we're not accounting Quick Thinking. Regardless, that's nothing special.

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