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NigglesAU

Trinity and Banshee

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Dont see these often in pubg (actually rarely see Titania as well). Are these useful soloing wise? (I know people love having trinity in a team)

Edited by NigglesAU
Yes

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Banshee's kind of a mess. I only see or play banshee on Io when farming relics in order to nuke the room -- or in the Index for the sonar damage multiplier and enemy radar. Her skills don't have any kind of synergy as far as gameplay goes. I avoid using her in regular missions. If I were to solo with her, I'd probably go for a low range savage silence build -- low range because of how the stun works. I'd use the skiajati and Arcane trickery for a round-about way to access to invisibility.

Trinity is still a great support and she's pretty tanky. I don't know if I've solo'ed with her, but I imagine she'd be fine for awhile depending how long you go in an endurance mission. When I want to play a supportive role though, I've been leaning more towards Ember since her rework since she can offer energy orbs, damage reduction, armor stripping, and bonus heat damage.

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I do use Trinity for solo play and in public sessions most of the time. She performs well for me. Abating Link is my main utility that I use. This augment is dope.

She's good but also bad in several game modes. I find it hard to play interception, defense, and excavation missions since Trinity lacks crowd control(cc)/damage dealing ability(dd) needed in such mission.

As for Banshee, probably because she is too squishy to be used in high level mission and her cc is very limited (cc duration is too short). She's energy hungry too, especially her 2nd ability (probably her best ability).

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6 hours ago, NigglesAU said:

Dont see these often in pubg (actually rarely see Titania as well). Are these useful soloing wise? (I know people love having trinity in a team)

They're support frames and no one really like to play support as logic dictates. Banshee is a really good frame but she's really hard to use (because she's super squishy). Trinity is the end all of healers. She basically outheals anything in the game but she also can potentially out tank anything as well. Trinity got nerfed a good while back because she was "accidentally" a good damage frame. Basically, Trinity has 2 damage reduction abilities and can use Adaptation to basically make her tankier than Inaros.

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One of the negatives of playing as Trinity is the way other players treat you. I prefer to avoid using Trinity when playing with pubs, because idiots think that I picked Trinity FOR THEM. "GIVE ME BLESSING" - they say as they run 100m away from the objective. In reality, I use her to let's say, protect myself and the operative FROM THEM because these r-egal-ded individuals spam AoE while under effect of radiation.

I wouldn't even play with pubs at all, really, but I'm too lazy to run around certain tilesets(Kuva, Void, Lua, Earth), playing hide and seek with braindead AI, so between 2 stupid evils I pick the predictable one and let the pubs do the seeking for me, while keeping objective safe.

Trinity is pretty good on her own, most of the time I pick her to solo Sortie missions since her Blessing works on allied AI, but the attitude the players have, thinking that you will go "Ara, ara" and support them 24/7 is really offputting when it comes to multiplayer.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)TertulSee said:

no one really like to play support

That's very much false, loads of people like playing Support roles in lotsa games,
I for one quite enjoy having some kind of Support option on my Frames / often build for that specifically.

Both Banshee and Trinity are powerful, but IMO need some "QOL" buffs, like,
as was mentioned, Banshee doesn't need to be that squishy, and her CC could be made more reliable,
while on Trinity I've wanted e.g. higher duration for Link and Blessing (or even a toggle for the former) since forever.

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Banshee as well as Trinity are played less, becasue DE is designing their roles out of the game.
Being 1st gen Warframes, those two were created with a certain role in mind; Banshee is an offensive support; Trinity is a deffensive support. Warframe in its current state is ungrateful to debuff Frames, becasue all ViP targets have ability immunity and greately devalue debuff play styles. Even then, our Arsenal power creeped to a state, where such buffs are not necessary.
Trinity is unpopular, becasue all new additions as well as most reworks make Frames selfsufficient: nowadays Frames get a deffensive ability in form of a DR/Armor or HP buff; there are many options to replenish Energy or HP. In such an environment, the only place for a dedicated support is a premade squad for specific tasks. Otherwise, Warframe eliminates the need of a team and positions itself more and more towards an egoistic playstyle. 

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Banshee being squishy is her main drawback, and eradicating that so players who are used to tanking more damage takes away from her uniqueness. There are other ways of improving a frame without just negating their drawbacks. That's just lazy game design. You can indirectly make her less squishy by giving players better tools to avoid damage.

I don't play Trin enough to have a solid opinion about how to improve her, but suffice to say, given that lots of offensive frames these days have built in defensive capabilities, it might be time for the healer to get some offensive powers back. Linkbombing 3.0 anyone?

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Banshee is sort of a hot mess of ideas (much like Nyx).

(DE Makes Banshee and intends for her to be a ranged combatant) -> (DE Creates [Savage Silence]  promoting melee combat) -> (DE primes her and makes her signature weapon a Shotgun/Slug weapon intended for medium/close range?)

to make it worse her kit has 0 Synergy.


I don't think DE really knows what to do with Banshee/Nyx but they atleast have a clue when it comes down to Trinity.

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Banshee is one part Vauban's old problem, one par Ember's old problem, and one part uniquely her problem.

She has Vauban's pre-rework problem of the meta leaving her behind in the eyes of many. Back when Vauban was the go-to frame for defense, Banshee was the must have for any premade group going for a long haul endless, with Sonar being an amazing damage multiplier once enemy levels started to really climb. But nowadays with the power creep that kind of buffing typically isn't needed, at least for standard enemies, and because of how it works it usually isn't that effective against bosses and the like, even if they are affected by the skill.

She has Ember's old problem in that she's squishy as F. While there are some ways around that (I can attest that Shy's Savage Silence build using a Huras Kubrow and Skaijani is both effective and hilariously fun... as long as you can close the distance for that first finisher kill) most high-level missions she's spending the whole time hoping noone breathes in her too hard. I'm with AuroraSonicBoom that I would rather see it as improved CC, or maybe some sort of thematic damage negation ala Zephyr or Baruuk, rather than just another DR ability. That said, tweaking her base health and armor would be appreciated too.

Her own unique twist is that she doesn't have a defined role (at least anymore.) Right now, her funest build (at least for me) is a kind of a pseudo-steath frame with her "all weapons are silent" passive, the enemy pinging ability of Sonar, and the effects of Silence, though no invisibility of her own. Her 1 kinda fits that as a immediate CC for escapes, but her 4 makes no sense, being a PbAoE that roots her in place, which is typically the last thing you actually want as Banshee... but that's when you're playing solo. In a group the best role she has is kinda-sorta a soft CC frame with Silence and maybe some damage boost from sonar which might help for the occational Nox or Bursa... unless it's a low end endless mission and you have no shame and no soul, and then it's Resonating Quake time. Warframes that can work in multiple roles are typically appealing, but for Bashee, especially due to the meta leaving her behind, it just comes off as a mess.

As for Trinity, on top of the fact a pure support frame doesn't really have a role in the game anymore, I also believe some of the problem is that her abilities (especially after the Link cheese got fixed) are all passive/defensive. That's not to say a frame needs to have damage abilities to be fun (Loki is proof of that) but it doesn't help that none of her abilities really make her feel offensively powerful.

I would like to see Banshee get a bit more into focused in the pseudo stealth/ambush playstyle, with a more thematic 4 and a better CC effect and/or an accuracy debuff added to it or Silence. With Trinity, easiest would be changing up Well of Life to be more of a means to focus down a target rather than a healing pinata that had its health multiplied by 10x so everyone gets a chance, though I'm wonder with the effective death of her role in most of the game if she would benefit from a Vauban or Ember like rework that touches on all her skills.

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3 hours ago, Raqiya said:

(DE primes her and makes her signature weapon a Shotgun/Slug weapon intended for medium/close range?)

To be fair, the Euphona is just one of her three signature weapons. The other two - Paris and Glaive - are meant for ranged play.

There's another aspect of Banshee that is pretty much always overlooked by anyone I see talking about Silence. It's the only ability in the game apart from Stalker's Dispel that can disable abilities. Eximus Fireblast/Snow Globes, other Warframes, Sentients, and probably more. Granted, that's not enough to make it worth the energy cost or even using in general gameplay, but it's still a neat niche aspect of the ability.

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3 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

To be fair, the Euphona is just one of her three signature weapons. The other two - Paris and Glaive - are meant for ranged play.

Paris and Glaive are considered her signatures? is this specified anywhere or is it like [Oberon & Magistar]  and [Excalibur & Skana]?

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27 minutes ago, Raqiya said:

Paris and Glaive are considered her signatures? is this specified anywhere or is it like [Oberon & Magistar]  and [Excalibur & Skana]?

It's what she used in the now-basically-ancient Profit trailer back when Warframe was first released on PS4 (along with a Furis.)

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8 minutes ago, Foefaller said:

It's what she used in the now-basically-ancient Profit trailer back when Warframe was first released on PS4 (along with a Furis.)

Yeeeeah, that doesn't really count.

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5 hours ago, Raqiya said:

to make it worse her kit has 0 Synergy.

I see this thrown around, but it seems people often do not understand what a synergy really is.
Banshe actually has synergies: Sonic Boom can push enemies out of Silence field, so that when they reenter the area they get stunend again. Then Silence creates a nice defense and engagement line on its radius, so that the player can easely kill enemies marked with Sonar. Then Sound Quake can hit Sonar spots, albeit it hardly ever happens.

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44 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

I see this thrown around, but it seems people often do not understand what a synergy really is.
Banshe actually has synergies: Sonic Boom can push enemies out of Silence field, so that when they reenter the area they get stunend again. Then Silence creates a nice defense and engagement line on its radius, so that the player can easely kill enemies marked with Sonar. Then Sound Quake can hit Sonar spots, albeit it hardly ever happens.

But they have guns, they get up and shoot you. Since you're launching them from the epicentre of silence the chances of them actually leaving the range can be rather minimal due to the terrain and your push strength/distance. I could hardly call that a synergy but more a coincidence, also if they're knocked down you're less likely to hit those sonar points hurting damage potential.

Soundquake without the augment is CC ability which does little damage and hitting those sonar points (if it ever does) practically does nothing. calling these synergys is really pushing it.

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В 12/4/2019 в 3:50 AM, NigglesAU сказал:
Dont see these often in pubg (actually rarely see Titania as well). Are these useful soloing wise? (I know people love having trinity in a team)

It's simple, these frames are boring or can't clear the whole map on their own. Trinity is "press button 2 to get energy and press button 4 to get resist", which is not a particularly good game. Even before, with OP 99.9999% resist, when you destroyed your hp for that, it was a lot more fun. You had synergy with necros or inaros. And it was smart invulnerability, because you could die if you destroyed your hp too brazenly. Now... I don't understand why Trinity should be played at all, other than managenerator and hunting.

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On 2019-12-03 at 7:50 PM, NigglesAU said:

Dont see these often in pubg (actually rarely see Titania as well). Are these useful soloing wise? (I know people love having trinity in a team)

They're fairly rare, mostly because they aren't needed for most things you do these days. 

Banshee is most notable for her damage boosts (and not SQ--though this is heavily abused when you do see her). The problem is that while 2500% extra damage is nice, it isn't needed for about 99% of what you do. It wasn't always thus, but that's the present reality and Banshee hasn't really changed.

Trinity is kind of in the same boat. She's most useful when supporting other 'frames (duh), but energy isn't particularly hard to come by and many newer 'frames have high survivability, so even Blessing isn't so in demand.

Both can solo pretty well, but Banshee has a bit of an all-or-nothing defense in Silence and has very little damage mitigation. (she's squishy). Solo, she ends up as a stun-bot gun platform. Trinity is all but unkillable, but this means a Link/Blessing build and many simply see her as an energy generator. She can solo extremely well, but she's very busy to play and ultimately a gun platform when on her own.   

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