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Darklord_Tou

Jack of All trades Master of none

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Is warframe "Jack of All trades Master of none"?

It feels like Steve and dev team wants the game to have everything yet nothing is perfected.

Lunaro/frame fighter/skating/nemesis/railjack everything takes precious dev times.I wonder if all this dev times were spent on polishing stuffs that are already in the game to perfect them.At the end of the day everyone will be playing the base game(shooter/parkour) most and peoples opinion will depend on how they enjoy it.Even though i think parkour is warframe's one of the strong suit it definitely couldve been improved like adding wall run/ smoothing out areas like nooks and crannies you get stuck here and there / balancing bullet jump spam(which is effective but not cool to look at).

Instead steve is like experimenting different mechanics from different games using warframe which is not a bad thing if some of them were perfected but it obviously takes time to perfect them.

Now this is not a hate/rant thread i am genuinely asking if this is what warframe is/was and always will be? even after almost 2k hours in-game i have no clue.

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It seems quite clear to me that DE works on things that are, first and foremost, interesting to them to work on. They have their vision for the game, and they will pursue it. They don't have a big souless corporate publisher that dictates terms to them, or forces them to cater to "current mainstream trends". They do want they want, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad.

For example, I STILL don't particularly care for the open worlds. Eidolon and Profit taker fights are cool, Fortuna and it's people are cool, but the rest is kind of meh to me. Yet both open worlds lead to a BIG popularity spike for the game (and a sustained one). So overall DE knows what they are doing, and have at least some of this "gut feeling" for the stuff that will be favorably accepted by the majority of its audience.

I am really curious as to where they will go with the game. If you asked me several years ago about a possibility of a space ship combat mode in Warframe, I would say that there is no way DE can pull off something this complex. If you asked me at the beginning of my path with Warframe (back when you had limited revives per day and had to slot abilities as mods) about a possibility of an open world in warframe, I would say that there is no way DE can pull off something this complex.

In the end, different modes and systems like Empyrean and the nemesis can organically enhance the core gameplay without making it a jack of all trades game, if done and integreated correctly. And for that, we will have to wait and see.

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Warframe sustains its player count by releasing frequent content updates, unlike many other MMO-style games which may offer long-term farming content with a slower development cycle. The reality is that spending weeks or months fine-tuning already released content doesn't entice people to start playing the game, and it also doesn't really entice existing players to return or continue playing.

Once you reach a certain point in the game, there isn't a single direction to go in, players can do whatever they want, with the catch that most of these options won't take an incredibly long time to complete. This eventually means that players will have achieved everything they are interested in/can be bothered doing, and are effectively "out of content". This is obviously where the content updates come in; if there is new content added every few weeks then players will never run out of content, as long as said content remains interesting.

Most of these content updates have been pretty solid in the last year or so, if they aren't well-received then people are at least still playing them while they complain. There has also been greater attention paid to upkeep; before Plains of Eidolon, it was very rare to see any sort of balancing or reworking done. There was a strict meta of about 3 weapons and maybe 5 or 6 Warframes, depending on the task at hand, mostly created by oversights and lack of attention to detail.

For instance, the Tonkor used to be a meta god, because its grenade launched the player instead of dealing self-damage; this just meant that people used it for corner-camping. The mechanic remained in the game for years, even after Parkour 2.0 made the rocket-jump completely obsolete. Another example of a horrible meta was Greedy Mag; essentially a Pull augment which gave Mag a 30-60 metre long Vacuum through walls, allowing her team to camp in Survival pretty much indefinitely without even moving around the map. This was most likely added without thought from DE other than "this might be a cool augment".

Overall, I'd say the game and DE are definitely improving in the field of "keeping older systems up-to-date". Warframes get reworked all the time, weapons get the occasional balance sooner or later, and older missions and tilesets get upgraded every now and then as well. Without context there are a lot of dodgy mechanics still in the game, but I think as DE continues to develop the game and their own development skills, we'll see better and better results in regards to upkeep.

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I just want to point out that "jack of all trades master of none" is not the full saying. The acutal saying is "jack of all trades master of none but oftimes better than master of one"

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Tbh, I'd very much like some polish on Frame Fighter.

After it's polished, add matchmaking for it, too 😛

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25 minutes ago, Troposphere6 said:

I just want to point out that "jack of all trades master of none" is not the full saying. The acutal saying is "jack of all trades master of none but oftimes better than master of one"

Damnit, beat me to it.

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Lunaro was a sports answer for the pvp squeamish. Inspired by Rocket Leagues explosion in popularity at the time. It was a failed experiment and it was abandoned as-is as a learning experience.

Frame-fighter. Like wyrmius and happy zephyr, was a lunch time side project inspired by a single photoshoped pic on twitter. They did it for fun on the side and was not on the typical itinerary of updates and projects.

K-drive was a small idea that spiraled into bigger content. It was birthed by controllable vehicle prototyping. While many may not find much use for it now. Though some do enjoy it. The system still exists to be later expanded if they want. Like if enemy ground vehicles could be commandeered for fun, not specifically having Tenno tanks.

Archwing was another experiment. While we all loved the initial idea when announced. It was a completely separate ecosystem and it was off-putting. So they paused content for the most part. Now Railjack aims to better blend base gameplay and archwing so its not completely separate. Hopefully an improvement for all parts.

Warframe is warframe because of these experiments.

 

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Well when i said "jack of all trades master of none" i dont mean it in totally bad way because warframe do have alot of "trades" in game.Was just hoping they polished some of those stuff.

I enjoyed K-drive alot but sadly there is no reason to use it over archwing.

Frame fighter could be made fun with proper balance and such.Fighting games in general require constant balance patches.

Lunaro could be made fun with dedicated servers.. i do find it fun but there is no player on matchmaking.Goes same for conclave but it also have some other issues.

 

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Yes

Want to play Archwing, go play Strike Vector instead

Want to play Conclave, go play Tribes instead

Want to play Frame Fighters, go play Street Fighter instead

Want to play Lunaro, go play Rocket League instead

Want to play K-Drive, go play Tony Hawk instead

Want to play Railjack, go play Guns of Icarus instead

Want to play a worse version of them all, well come play Warframe

 

Edited by .Unreality
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42 minutes ago, .Unreality said:

Yes

Want to play Archwing, go play Strike Vector instead
Want to play Conclave, go play Tribes instead
Want to play Frame Fighters, go play Street Fighter instead
Want to play Lunaro, go play Rocket League instead
Want to play K-Drive, go play Tony Hawk instead
Want to play Railjack, go play Guns of Icarus instead
Want to play a worse version of them all, well come play Warframe

Imagine having all of them installed open at once.

I'd like a ripoff version of From the Depths implemented into Warframe.
(Edit: The trailer shows the experience after the learning curve. ... Which is a monster.)

 

Edited by Uthael

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5 hours ago, Darklord_Tou said:

Is warframe "Jack of All trades Master of none"?

It feels like Steve and dev team wants the game to have everything yet nothing is perfected.

Lunaro/frame fighter/skating/nemesis/railjack everything takes precious dev times.I wonder if all this dev times were spent on polishing stuffs that are already in the game to perfect them.At the end of the day everyone will be playing the base game(shooter/parkour) most and peoples opinion will depend on how they enjoy it.Even though i think parkour is warframe's one of the strong suit it definitely couldve been improved like adding wall run/ smoothing out areas like nooks and crannies you get stuck here and there / balancing bullet jump spam(which is effective but not cool to look at).

Instead steve is like experimenting different mechanics from different games using warframe which is not a bad thing if some of them were perfected but it obviously takes time to perfect them.

Now this is not a hate/rant thread i am genuinely asking if this is what warframe is/was and always will be? even after almost 2k hours in-game i have no clue.

Is not this what WF always was and is? It started as a passion project, and to an extent, still is. It has a lot of stuff, and not all of it is greatly balanced. Clearly the appeal comes from its unique setup, game play and world. If you are looking for a top of the line shooter or action game, with extremely refined mechanics, it is not WF and never will be. And personal opinion, it is the best game, I have seen, combining shooting, parkour and melee. Neither of the 3 elements alone is great, but how all three combine and synergize is what defines WF. Plus one of the most interesting SciFi settings.

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Warframe offers a nice variety of activities, I like some more than others, and I am perfectly fine with them going into uncharted waters.
Really, the only  thing I don't like is "layered RNG" , but I am totally fine with the concept of, say, Kuva Lich

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Fun trivia I learned recently:
In its early days, Warframe had a glitch people abused which would boot you some distance ahead. People abused it to move around the map a lot.
DE realized that people would dislike this glitch fixed and so they made what we call today a Bullet Jump.

...
Some years later, Itzal loses Blink xD

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Just now, Uthael said:

Fun trivia I learned recently:
In its early days, Warframe had a glitch people abused which would boot you some distance ahead. People abused it to move around the map a lot.
DE realized that people would dislike this glitch fixed and so they made what we call today a Bullet Jump.

...
Some years later, Itzal loses Blink xD

it was called coptering i think... basically doing slide attack in air with a fast melee weapon would make you move really fast.

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6 hours ago, Darklord_Tou said:

Is warframe "Jack of All trades Master of none"?

It feels like Steve and dev team wants the game to have everything yet nothing is perfected.

Lunaro/frame fighter/skating/nemesis/railjack everything takes precious dev times.I wonder if all this dev times were spent on polishing stuffs that are already in the game to perfect them.At the end of the day everyone will be playing the base game(shooter/parkour) most and peoples opinion will depend on how they enjoy it.Even though i think parkour is warframe's one of the strong suit it definitely couldve been improved like adding wall run/ smoothing out areas like nooks and crannies you get stuck here and there / balancing bullet jump spam(which is effective but not cool to look at).

Instead steve is like experimenting different mechanics from different games using warframe which is not a bad thing if some of them were perfected but it obviously takes time to perfect them.

Now this is not a hate/rant thread i am genuinely asking if this is what warframe is/was and always will be? even after almost 2k hours in-game i have no clue.

Frame Fighter doesn't seem like serious dev content to me.

It feels like a dev or two were messing around with in on their free time until one day  during lunch break, Steve came by their cubicle, saw what they were making, and went, "That looks like a fun thing we can add to the game for laughs" and spent *maybe* 20 man-hours of on-the-clock work getting it to a working condition and added to the game.

Basically, it's a Flappy Zephyr.

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That is true.

But I feel like that is also a part of this games charm. It has pretty much everything to offer for a casual gamer(well maybe with the exception of PVP). Although time spent on 100% trivial stuff like Shawzin feels like a huge waste tbh.

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3 minutes ago, White_Matter said:

That is true.

But I feel like that is also a part of this games charm. It has pretty much everything to offer for a casual gamer(well maybe with the exception of PVP). Although time spent on 100% trivial stuff like Shawzin feels like a huge waste tbh.

I LOVE Shawzin! I even made a topic about implementing its recordings into Octavia.

That got ignored FAST -.-

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19 minutes ago, Uthael said:

Fun trivia I learned recently:
In its early days, Warframe had a glitch people abused which would boot you some distance ahead. People abused it to move around the map a lot.
DE realized that people would dislike this glitch fixed and so they made what we call today a Bullet Jump.

...
Some years later, Itzal loses Blink xD

Coptering. You would take a fast melee weapon (Dual Zoren was the best at the time) do a sliding attack while also jumping at just the right moment, and you could use the forward momentum from the slide to carry you across the room.

Warframe had a stamina bar back then, so getting around was pretty slow regardless of who you picked. Also, it was much more of a gun-focused game at the time, with no melee stances or really even melee as a full fledged weapon (just the old quick melee; if you wonder why Steel Charge gives more cap that other aura mods, it was supposed to be a tradeoff for buffing something you weren't really expected to main at the time), so having a melee weapon that served no purpose but travel wasn't something that would hamper you either.

Edited by Foefaller

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il y a 20 minutes, Darklord_Tou a dit :

it was called coptering i think... basically doing slide attack in air with a fast melee weapon would make you move really fast.

 

How much i miss this feature.....

😞

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14 minutes ago, Yemesis said:

 

How much i miss this feature.....

😞

Personally, if Dual Zoren were ever to be primed, I'd give them some kind of big parkour speed boost on aerial attack, just as a reference.

I wasn't there for Coptering, but I do think it needs a legacy of some kind.

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Daym!  it's like Void Dash got removed for you people who got into this game early.

I can only imagine the hate on the forums back then.

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