Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Jarriaga

DE's sustainable content problem shows up again (AKA: All Lich weapons farmed. Now what?)

Recommended Posts

*2 weeks after PoE dropped*

I've finished PoE. Now what?

*2 weeks after Fortuna dropped*

I've finished Tuna. Now what?

*4 weeks after Old Bruh*

I've finished the bruhs. Now what?

*X weeks after Empyrean drops*

I've finished Empyrean. Now what?

*Y weeks after ANYTHING*

I've finished this thing. Now what?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 минут назад, 3rdpig сказал:

I'm on my 19th Lich and I'm still missing the Chakkur.  I'm not going past 20 if I don't get it, I'll just trade for or buy a lich who has it.

If DE wants to lower the grind for Requiem mods and give us some reason to continue farming dupes (and no, the current valance system doesn't cut it for me) then maybe I'll continue trying to improve the Kuva weapons I've got. Other than that, like DE, I'll just move on from the whole lich thing.

I have a 60% impact chakkur to trade if you're interested.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love this Schizophrenic circle. With every Update players complain about grind, after the grind is reduced they are surprised that they hit “Content drought” a little bit early and start to complain about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

There is no "now what". I'm sure theres a reason mr 27s dont continuously run Earth spy missions: you got what you needed and moved on in regards to both knowledge and loot.

1. It's no one's fault you rushed content.

2. Correct me if I'm wrong but this update was more filler to appease people while working on the major content and updates.

So how about you sit back and smoke a cigar and enjoy your new weapons.

I think the criticism from most people is "enjoy those new weapons doing...what?" I don't have the weapons, and I doubt I'll get them any time (I still haven't even kill a larva yet). I just enjoy the game for what it is. At the same time though, I think people are getting tired of content updates that don't expand the gameplay. Does the Kuva LIch system add anything new other than guns that you can then use on old content? I think people are looking for new ways to interact, new mechanics, new game modes.

For me, as mentioned in a previous post, I like little gamemodes like Arbitrations and Disruption because it changes how I play, compared to a large open-world like Plains or Fortuna. Those are neat too, but Orb Vallis doesn't really change how I play the game or how I approach the missions, its just the same stuff in an open environment. I guess you could say I use my archwing more but that doesn't shake things up outside of traversal. Anyway, I'm getting off track.

I think we can all hope that Railjack is that new gameplay we're looking for. It's new toys but also entirely new content and mechanics to change up how you play the game. EDIT: and also the new sentient content too. All those new enemies type have the potential to really shake things up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, TheGildedOni said:

I doubt those people are actually having fun, since everything for them is about collecting rewards. That's why, once they've collected something, they say "Now, what?" It's because they're here for the rewards, not for the gameplay.

This "Now what?" person quoting you has defended the Grendel missions because of much I enjoyed them, and want more content like it. I want more challenging content because that's my cup of tea, and have many several posts in favor of a higher base difficultly or systems nerfs for balancing.

In the absence of that, extrinsic rewards are the only thing left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

This is after 18 Liches.

Pretty lucky tbh. I've done 40+ liches and still dont have my Kuva Seer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Pretty lucky tbh. I've done 40+ liches and still dont have my Kuva Seer.

One gifted by my clan leader and some trades (Lich for Lich) really helped speed things up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree there should be a reason to go get liches once you have all the "one time" drops. DE pooched it there. Not dropping anything worthwhile thats repeatable. Like a substantial amount of kuva or forma BP's or something.

People said this day 1 and DE's done nothing to address it. So my guess is they intend the system to be one and done. I can't imagine them thinking its repeatable content with no reason to repeat it.

Although you can sell weapons and ephemeras for some platinum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

Pretty lucky tbh. I've done 40+ liches and still dont have my Kuva Seer.

i have one converted kuva seer lich, we could trade them but idk how that works

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Toppien said:

i have one converted kuva seer lich, we could trade them but idk how that works

I appreciate the offer, but I'm not in a rush. Like many people are saying, they have nothing to do now that they have everything. I'm just taking the ride slow, not in a rush.

Thank you though!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

I love this Schizophrenic circle. With every Update players complain about grind, after the grind is reduced they are surprised that they hit “Content drought” a little bit early and start to complain about it.

News flash ; grind ain't content. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

 

 

I'm sorry, but was I supposed to only fight one Lich per month and I missed that memo or what? Does a Lich every 2 to 3 days sound so extreme to you?

Not at all. It actually sounds like you had a decent drop rate, and all the other people whining about the terrible grind were exaggerating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've found this content to be the most insulting to me personally, it made me not want to play. On top of the grind, you have to forma the weapon 5 times to see any mastery and this is why I didn't like it the first time this was introduced because I knew it was going to end up being used on a weapons I didn't like, to weapons I despised. Now you'll have 5 forma weapons sitting in your inventory you'll never touch again after likely grinding to get them for the mastery in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Toppien said:

my point is, that idk wtf are u expecting them to do, developing games takes a lot of effort and time, especially when you need to program stuff from scratch, so stop being a spoiled child and go play something else while new content is being made

Properly polished game modes can easily have near-infinite value to keep returning to. Why do you think games like Tetris, Puyo Puyo, Pokemon, Fighting games, MOBAs and many others tend to thrive long term? Even if its just the concept itself that survives, with only specific entries able to broadcast that concept the best.

Its because they take a simple concept and work it into a infinite replay value in some way, whether its to keep things simple or re`invent all the elements around it while keeping the BASE principle of it the same. Which could be as simple as slightly updating textures, squashing the bugs and introduce some new characters which could just be adjusted stats, types, base pictures, battle cries & some flavor text, Which is pretty much how EVERY pokemon dumbs down to when you examine the core elements, most is just `interesting` designwork, Where you could have 2 pokemon with the same exact stats, move-sets, abilities and only have picture & battlecry differences, yet people might pick one over the other cause of that.

NOW, why do i bring this up? Because D.E. feels more like they are being lazy or going the wrong direction on how they should have certain content designed. Lets go over a few elements of Kuva Liches.

  • Kuva liches itself provides a kind of high-level activity for people to do in order to have a challenge, where we expected we would have a nemesis where we would thwart and get thwarted in a back to back struggle. Instead all we got was a fking bully where we are forced to use a completely new system with no real introduction to it except what is basically a one time teaser cutscene and acts as a major surprise for any uninformed to shank a lich larvae then be stuck with a jerk that can go from level 20 all the way to 60 and then up to 110~ level range while annoying the heck out of us.
  • Kuva Liches provide us with a new set of weapons, Except we have to go thru a tedious process to get one of them, which can take MUCH longer to get one of them compared to the grind needed to get a prime weapon or even certain warframes, Plus we get a reverse sortie where we see what we get first but we are FORCED to do the entire thing before we can get it. With no real way to control what weapon we get or how high of a % it can get which is basically a % of 25 to 60 meaning around 35 possible or so odds of what it can land on if D.E. did not `skew` what variance it can land on. Which does not account for the 8% or so chance of WHICH kuva lich weapon it can be, the 10% chance if a lich will have a ephemera or not and so many other factors.
  • Said Kuva lich weapons are suppose to be very powerful, Except most of them are just variant weapons or meme things, sure things like the Kuva Quarttak & Douba Stubba have nice ammo clip sizes, damage values, crit/status chances, but most are likely not that interesting, especially when you bring in particular weapons into the argument. Such as Kit guns and Zaws, the meme variable weapons to make some ridiculous stuff. Throw in the fact you have to cram 5 forma on it just to add 2 extra capacity per forma, most are NEKKID with no polarity, meaning its the fking dojo weapon nightmares all over again, Its just a massive sink of resources, time and farm just to get another weapon. Plus again, it can take up to like 3 days for a regular person to get thru a lich, people usually can get thar hands on a weapon in less then 24 hours in most cases or within 36 hours, Which they can then spend those extra few hours to get thru the tedious grinding of it.

 

The only real `lasting value` kuva Liches was allow another set of 3 types of spams to plague market chat, R.Relics, R.Mods & Liches. With an extra side of people begging for Ephemera for less then 20 plat. Where also some people want to beg for a bunch of liches, but clearly does not understand you can only get ONE lich trade at a time.

Alot of the time could of been spent such as having the lich giving a bonus to the resources it pilfered from you, once taken down depending on its rank, including extra missions to allow doing a sabotage special mission to let you destroy thar kuva lich weapon so you can force them to get another one, which could allow you to re-roll what weapon they have. Plus have the RANK of the lich actually decide what kind of % of bonus elemental it would have. If i have to suplex a rank 5 lich straight into atomized dust particles, i would like that high level, difficult fight, to let me get a nice CHONKY reward from it.

Instead they decided to force us to side-track with the R.Relics, R.Mod systems, to artificially inflated the time length of getting thru a lich. Which it honestly would of been more fun to have a mission with about 50+ thralls and we would basically be combo assassinating them with mercy kills and we would require 300 mercy kills to learn all the marks, instead of 80. Least then i can enjoy giving a REAL excuse for the lich getting ticked at me by basically killing likely over half of thar `infinite refresh-able resource of thrall grunts`, that they basically get thru likely the same gag as how enemies become corrupted in fissures.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And that is it for the casuals. This system was designed for endgame, something for us to chase and possible be able to tailor for our specific need. The system should not be changed to cater to casuals so they can get their "but mah 60% duur!" fix. Leave it as is so people that actually care about the impact of the stats can decide which route to take, grind for that 25% or for the 60%. That is the whole idea, something specific for us to work for if we are the least interested in making something near perfect for our kit.

Why is it that whenever there is something new released intended as endgame, the casuals will cry after a day and then the S#&$ gets nerfed or gets bad mechanics slapped onto it. Lich trading, no back-to-back dupes and some other things are already bad enough as changes. And with the added Kuva you now have a bunch of whiny twats complaining whenever you dont parazon your Lich and just drive him off, cos apparently the kuva is more important than the owner of the lich thinking about efficiency.

This system isn't challenging at all. It's no endgame nor a loop that provides challenge. So far for the most part you "collect mods for lich and poke at lich till you get right combination. There is nothing to bring a use to the new strong weapons as we are still fighting the same enemies at the end of the day. The liches challenge is "damage reduction" and the occasional lich with hallowed ground. And even then with randoms nobody seems to die or get downed we jump the lich and he get stabbed or they slam the owner.

 

Solo? Still a pushover a lvl 5 lich gets ran though by 

Wukong

(any stealth frame)

Valk

Barruk

Rev 

Gara

Inaros 

Rhino

Mag

Etc

They don't provide any sort of endgame. The liches are wolf's of Saturn but with warframe abilities at level 5. More of an annoyance of damage reduction. 

The random stats again don't really matter because guess what...... Whether it be 25% or 60% it's still going to poop on every enemy to date. It's no need to min max the weapons because to be frank the game is too easy right now for it to matter. On top of the layers of unneeded rng with the mods the way to kill said liches and weapons along with emphera drop chance. I have every kuva weap because the kuva kohm (and my last lich has it) and every other weapon ive got  has sevred me beyond well and I have no need to min max. (Currently in wfs current state you don't need to min max anything) 

 

Nobody's crying about anything casual you sound like an "entitled veteran"  nothing really got nerfed as of yet but qol changes came to make the game somewhat more enjoyable.(Lich trading was a promised feature) and the removal of back to back dupes helps lessen the grind and the likely hood of you getting a garbage roll back to back(you like min maxing? this is for you.) going to the lich stabbing or not WHO CARES play how you want to play. If you're trying to control how someone plays go make a squad for that 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, PurrrningBoop said:

I have a 60% impact chakkur to trade if you're interested.

Sure, but I've got nothing even approaching 60% to trade you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so i dont bother reading every response here, but if you do nothing else then farming the lich , thats what you get. Sorry to tell you but if you eat the whole day Potatos for 2 weeks you should't wonder where your 20 Kilo Potatoes went...

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i did 50 lich. thats a lot of grind.

but i gained 5 emphemra. 

11 weapon types

had to trade for the other 2.

cost is my time

and 65 forma (35px7 or more purchased )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

This is after 18 Liches.

damn, not too many duplicates then. i hope I'm as lucky as you; on my Fourth, no duplicates so far.

honestly, I think they could improve the system in a couple of places. in terms of Longevity, it wouldn't hurt for them to actually expand on the Lich system; not just by giving us Corpus and Infested Liches, those are a given, but by occasionally adding in a new Lich weapon with some updates, maybe also some new lines so that you at least feel like you're going up against a different person. I really don't want this to be yet another system that DE sets and forgets, because there is some real potential here, but we all know what their track record is like...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm maybe in a minority but I don't care about lich. I don't see it as new content. I'm waiting for railjack and cinematic quest. Those are the only things that make you play differently or at least to experience something sufficiently different. I don't need more grind or weapon at this point and I'm not even rank 20...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Why would that be necessary? You can trade for weaker weapons a lot easier than for stronger weapons.

Not everyone is min-maxing to the most optimal numbers.

Are you trolling? You are the only person I have seen here, on Reddit, on YouTube, on Discord, actually asking for a way to get weaker variants.

Because RNG is RNG and it should go both ways for optimal results for each person. And why would it be trolling when it has been common sense ever since rivens were introduced? It is the same thing here, you dont want to water down your pool more than needed. Certain elements on certain weapons benefit more from the lowest possible number instead of the highest. Finding that right item is just as RNG based as the other, so both options should be a thing if one is. You cant just cater to one type of people, they've already made some problems by listening to the vocal minority that only had MR in mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

This system isn't challenging at all. It's no endgame nor a loop that provides challenge. So far for the most part you "collect mods for lich and poke at lich till you get right combination. There is nothing to bring a use to the new strong weapons as we are still fighting the same enemies at the end of the day. The liches challenge is "damage reduction" and the occasional lich with hallowed ground. And even then with randoms nobody seems to die or get downed we jump the lich and he get stabbed or they slam the owner.

 

Solo? Still a pushover a lvl 5 lich gets ran though by 

Wukong

(any stealth frame)

Valk

Barruk

Rev 

Gara

Inaros 

Rhino

Mag

Etc

They don't provide any sort of endgame. The liches are wolf's of Saturn but with warframe abilities at level 5. More of an annoyance of damage reduction. 

The random stats again don't really matter because guess what...... Whether it be 25% or 60% it's still going to poop on every enemy to date. It's no need to min max the weapons because to be frank the game is too easy right now for it to matter. On top of the layers of unneeded rng with the mods the way to kill said liches and weapons along with emphera drop chance. I have every kuva weap because the kuva kohm (and my last lich has it) and every other weapon ive got  has sevred me beyond well and I have no need to min max. (Currently in wfs current state you don't need to min max anything) 

 

Nobody's crying about anything casual you sound like an "entitled veteran"  nothing really got nerfed as of yet but qol changes came to make the game somewhat more enjoyable.(Lich trading was a promised feature) and the removal of back to back dupes helps lessen the grind and the likely hood of you getting a garbage roll back to back(you like min maxing? this is for you.) going to the lich stabbing or not WHO CARES play how you want to play. If you're trying to control how someone plays go make a squad for that 

Endgame =/= challenge. It can be anything from something easy with a long grind or something challenging and hard. Casual does not imply they dont want a challenge, just that they want it within their limited time and with minimum dedication. I never claimed there was a challenge, I simply claimed it was an endgame mode, since it is because it lets us get very specific weapons that we can min-max and suit specific roles.

The general problem to why there is no endgame overall is because casuals tend to want everything nerfed to suit their needs just moments after something releases. Be it difficulty or time for obtaining things, there is always the "wha wha wha!" echoing shortly after release. Now we have something to grind for, something that isnt very abnormal even when it comes to time investments and yet people want it even quicker. If you dont care for the numbers, dont ask for it to be easier to obtain, since as the OP has proved, 18 liches for 13 weapons is already fast just for the sake of mastery.

Also casual is not the opposite of veteran, just as hardcore is not the opposite of newbie or the synonym for veteran. And no, the changes does not benefit a min-maxer, it only benefits those that want all 13 weapons unlocked as fast as possible. When you start the min-maxing the changes to which weapons roll is a massive drawback since you cant get the weapon you want twice in a row, which means you are always needed to grind atleast one extra lich between each desired weapon roll you get. There is zero QoL in that for me. And I agree, the people complaining on their group regarding shank or no shank needs to go squad up.

And while the stats may not be needed to be min-maxed, it is still something to chase and a goal to set for each player. The initial setup for how weapons rolled worked for both those only interested in grabbing 13 and those trying to get the best stats to make the most out of the weapon they want. I want both maxed and bottom roll weapons, it just depends on which weapon it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are people expecting?
Neural Network based infinite procedural content tailored to each individual playing the game?

Im not sure where the problem here is, the strongest,richest or most hardcore players ( case of time investment ) will easily trade/farm all the stuff that DE is bringing to us...
No human in this world can offer that much content at all... the only way is artificially locking it behind brainless grind, massive cash cow milking or??? ive no idea...

In so many games i read the same.. wait infact in ALL games its the same problem...
I remember in Star Wars The Old Republic, right after the paid expansion was released.. like 1-2 weeks after that, Veterans complained: "iv'e done it all, where is more?... you devs suck" ... seriously.. what do you guys expect? a 1 Terabyte Update that will keep you busy for half a year? seriously you will never find that in your lifespan on any game...

DE is already working on content, they even released Rising tide before planned...they've cut it out from their Bigger update just to make us happy and all people do is complain...
And if they wait, take their time you will ask and push "when release, when when when ????"... come on...

I myself took my time, i still only have killed/converted 5 or 6 lichs... i play the other games modes, i level frames, i help mates, i enjoy the scenery in game, i fantasize about what would be nice to add into the game.. etc...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...