DE's sustainable content problem shows up again (AKA: All Lich weapons farmed. Now what?)

[Alpha_Tango]

Blazing through the content is not everyones cup of tea. Some players may have not killed their first Lich at all. So, depending on the liberties a player has on his hands to grind TOB, ones' "sustainable content" may not be the same for others.

Actually, I call this TOB session one. Obviously, a test run for things to come. To fine tune the Nemesis system as Empyrean approaches. It is but a phase, so I can't really consider this an attempt for sustainability at all.

Nobody forced me to blitzkrieg through all the weapons and ephemera since I really had fun with the whole Lich deal. So I am in no position to crave senseless for more when I already ate my slice of the pie. Just twiddling my fingers now, patiently waiting for the day I can leave the dock with my Railjack.

^{* currently in a marathon where tanks reign supreme}

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Alpha_Tango

[Vyra]

9 minutes ago, Alpha_Tango said:

Blazing through the content is not everyones cup of tea. Some players may have not killed their first Lich at all. So, depending on the liberties a player has on his hands to grind TOB, ones' "sustainable content" may not be the same for others.

Actually, I call this TOB session one. Obviously, a test run for things to come. To fine tune the Nemesis system as Empyrean approaches. It is but a phase, so I can't really consider this an attempt for sustainability at all.

Nobody forced me to blitzkrieg through all the weapons and ephemera since I really had fun with the whole Lich deal. So I am in no position to crave senseless for more when I already ate my slice of the pie. Just twiddling my fingers now, patiently waiting for the day I can leave the dock with my Railjack.

^{* currently in a marathon where tanks reign supreme}

 

^ This

[Kaizal]

2 hours ago, Vyra said:

What are people expecting?
Neural Network based infinite procedural content tailored to each individual playing the game?

Im not sure where the problem here is, the strongest,richest or most hardcore players ( case of time investment ) will easily trade/farm all the stuff that DE is bringing to us...
No human in this world can offer that much content at all... the only way is artificially locking it behind brainless grind, massive cash cow milking or??? ive no idea...

In so many games i read the same.. wait infact in ALL games its the same problem...
I remember in Star Wars The Old Republic, right after the paid expansion was released.. like 1-2 weeks after that, Veterans complained: "iv'e done it all, where is more?... you devs suck" ... seriously.. what do you guys expect? a 1 Terabyte Update that will keep you busy for half a year? seriously you will never find that in your lifespan on any game...

DE is already working on content, they even released Rising tide before planned...they've cut it out from their Bigger update just to make us happy and all people do is complain...
And if they wait, take their time you will ask and push "when release, when when when ????"... come on...

I myself took my time, i still only have killed/converted 5 or 6 lichs... i play the other games modes, i level frames, i help mates, i enjoy the scenery in game, i fantasize about what would be nice to add into the game.. etc...

I mean, its pretty obvious at this point, that the "endgame" "sustainable content" and "scaling rewards" are just BS non-sense terms that players use when they no-life the content on release and then disappointed because there is nothing else. Is the same as people complaining or getting sad that they ate throw an entire season on Netflix and then being sad cuz they have nothing else to watch, only that this people are often smart enough to see that you cant produce a good quality season of a TV show at the rate you are watching it.

So called Warframe vets, don't seem to have yet acquired this kind of intelligence, maybe if it was a farmable item they could no-life to get theyd finally get it.

[dEjAvU5566]

Congratulations for op!

You can play other games.

 

[Fire2box]

3 hours ago, Vyra said:

What are people expecting?
Neural Network based infinite procedural content tailored to each individual playing the game?

people want something worthwhile to keep playing the game. 

1. reduce rolling cost with kuva and/or increase kuva gains. 

2. scaling rewards in endless missions. like say getting 2 relics per rotation on the like 8th, 12th, 14th, 16th, etc. 

are very common requests.

Though I don't think DE wants to do anything like that since they are already scared of Rivens. As for scaling rewards DE has made it clear they only want "bite sized content" they don't want people in the same mission for 3 hours at a time. 

The utter lack of "sustainable content" is why people keep waiting for the next release and can sometimes grow impairment.

[Space0ddity]

18 hours ago, Morthal said:

This whole Lich update is garbage tier distraction content.
I've got 5 or so Liches killed and one just sitting there with an Ephemera and the Kuva Hammer. Not worth the time spent to grind murmurs and sure as hell isn't worth the time and forma to gain mastery exp. 
I live in a city with slot machines and video poker at every gas station, restaurant and grocery store, don't need them showing up in my PC games too. Looking at DE's track record, OP is being too optimistic about improvements for this trash tier update. Just look at all the dead gameplay modes, bug filled tilesets and bounties that haven't been fixed or improved in years. 
Personally, I'm ignoring Lich 'content' without hopes that it will improve, just as DE ignores our feedback.

dont forget to grab the hammer anyway tho, its arguably the strongest melee of this patch

 

 

[Kaotyke]

8 hours ago, Vyra said:

What are people expecting?
Neural Network based infinite procedural content tailored to each individual playing the game?

Im not sure where the problem here is, the strongest,richest or most hardcore players ( case of time investment ) will easily trade/farm all the stuff that DE is bringing to us...
No human in this world can offer that much content at all... the only way is artificially locking it behind brainless grind, massive cash cow milking or??? ive no idea...

In so many games i read the same.. wait infact in ALL games its the same problem...
I remember in Star Wars The Old Republic, right after the paid expansion was released.. like 1-2 weeks after that, Veterans complained: "iv'e done it all, where is more?... you devs suck" ... seriously.. what do you guys expect? a 1 Terabyte Update that will keep you busy for half a year? seriously you will never find that in your lifespan on any game...

DE is already working on content, they even released Rising tide before planned...they've cut it out from their Bigger update just to make us happy and all people do is complain...
And if they wait, take their time you will ask and push "when release, when when when ????"... come on...

I myself took my time, i still only have killed/converted 5 or 6 lichs... i play the other games modes, i level frames, i help mates, i enjoy the scenery in game, i fantasize about what would be nice to add into the game.. etc...

Carefull, you will be labled a "Whie Knight", its the current fad to call everyone who even remotely defends any of DE's decisions, even if you were very vocal against some of their decisions in the past.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Kaotyke
gramma

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

it's not about the reward...it's about progression 

because warframe is not a stats based game...and because we didn't have a single quest since early 2018 game modes simply have no feel of progression because there's none...

and because DE doesn't release content every 2 months and when they do it's not progressive 

don't treat warframe as destiny where stats play crucial part in gameplay....treat it as an arcade with multiple game modes

 

on the other hand you have a game like spacelords that constantly bombards you with rewards and level ups the more you play...and has a somewhat balanced PVP system that revolves around 1v4 players,  you'll never play the mission twice the same way  

[z3us32610]

I'm with you OP. I've had every weapon for a while and even got 3 of the ephemeras. I would like to get better bonuses on about half of my weapons (my third lich gave me a 60% toxin ogris, and I have several others that are over 50%) but every time I roll a new lich it is really deflating to get a 25% crap roll. So the motivation isn't there to keep fighting this guy, except that the enemies are at least higher level, which doesn't make it painfully boring.

I like the suggestion of kuva instead of convert or vanquish, or guaranteed 1% better bonus perhaps with a chance for even better.

I do feel that the lower elemental bonuses are more heavily weighted, but it could just be me. It sure seems like more 25s go out than anything close to a 60

[Marvelous_A]

I don't even get the incentive to actually start with it. That's the first time in this game I feel "yeah no f**k it" and just forget about a new feature.

[Jarriaga]

10 hours ago, Vyra said:

What are people expecting?
Neural Network based infinite procedural content tailored to each individual playing the game?

Is a 3rd option when killing them such a daunting expectation? Is it unreasonable to expect DE to ask themselves "What will keep players coming back after they farm the weapons?" during development phases long before the update drops?

I have completed my focus farm for all 5 schools. I have hundreds of thousand of unused Endo. I have 2 rank 3 copies of every single Arcane I actually use. I have all in game weapons and frames. I'm in clan with people that mind their own business and rarely need help. I have max stockpile of void traces and syndicate standing for my 4 syndicates. I completed my Railjack.

What else was I supposed to be doing if not killing Liches? What was the rate I was "supposed" to be killing them? One per month? Does a Lich every 2 to 3 days per attempt and 3 over the weekend if I'm home sound so unreasonable?

[Jarriaga]

7 hours ago, Kaizal said:

t BS non-sense terms that players use when they no-life the content on release and then disappointed because there is nothing else.

Again, for the 5th time on this thread, was I supposed to only kill one Lich per month or what? What else was I supposed to be doing in-game? Is killing a Lich every 2 to 3 days such an extreme pacing?

[Jarriaga]

1 hour ago, Kaotyke said:

Carefull, you will be labled a "Whie Knight", its the current fad to call everyone who even remotely defends any of DE's decisions, even if you were very vocal against some of their decisions in the past.

He's not even defending DE. Rather he seems to be attacking me for just playing the game.

[tzadquiel]

6 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

I have completed my focus farm for all 5 schools. I have hundreds of thousand of unused Endo. I have 2 rank 3 copies of every single Arcane I actually use. I have all in game weapons and frames. I'm in clan with people that mind their own business and rarely need help. I have max stockpile of void traces and syndicate standing for my 4 syndicates. I completed my Railjack.

What else was I supposed to be doing if not killing Liches? What was the rate I was "supposed" to be killing them? One per month? Does a Lich every 2 to 3 days per attempt and 3 over the weekend if I'm home sound so unreasonable?

take a break, and maybe also lay off the forums for a while. 

[Kaotyke]

Just now, Jarriaga said:

He's not even defending DE. Rather he seems to be attacking me for just playing the game.

Not in the quote I quoted.

He is very much voicing his opinion of the situation but he made no remarks to towards you there.

[Jarriaga]

1 minute ago, Kaotyke said:

Not in the quote I quoted.

He is very much voicing his opinion of the situation but he made no remarks to towards you there.

Considering the tone of his response with regards to unreasonable player expectations after clearing content while ignoring that I at least offer solutions and make proposals in my OP that don't involve new content at all, plus the user's post history, I am inclined to believe otherwise.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Jarriaga

[Kaotyke]

1 minute ago, Jarriaga said:

Considering the tone of his response with regards to unreasonable player expectations after clearing content while ignoring that I at least offer solutions and make proposals in my OP that don't involve new content at all, plus the user's post history, I am inclined to believe otherwise.

taking consideration of the user's post history us well and good to know how each person acts here. Hell, my own posts have been highly satirical in nature lately, but that doesnt stop me from making actual non-satirical posts.

He has a history, but even a cynical, hateful person can be a bit positive at times, its called having an actual person writting these posts with a wide range of emotions instead of having 1 facet.

And at that post, at that moment, I dont see anything that is a reason to attack you or anyone in particular. All you are coming on is as getting highly defensive.

And remember: You cant spell Devil without DE.

[zakaryx]

OP makes some great points. That 1% increase would be tiny but at least it would be something.

 

 

I'm not sure if it was already suggested here but a poster in another thread recommended that the lich larvling should be holding its future weapon when you go to slay it.

 

At least then we could abort and reroll the mission to avoid another duplicate/weapon we don't want.

[Erwes]

stop criticizing the game if you're addicted. 

Your point of view is unrealistic and lacks too much hindsight.

I, at least, play other games of different kinds and ask myself when something bother me : is it the fault of the game or is it not to my taste.

Please, try, for your own sake...

 

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

This is starting to sound more like a player's insatiable appetite problem more than a DE content problem.

Edited December 5, 2019 by (PS4)drpunk-yo

[Jarriaga]

Just now, (PS4)drpunk-yo said:

This is starting to sound more like a player's insatiable apatite problem more than a DE content problem.

I'm not asking for new content.

[tzadquiel]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)drpunk-yo said:

This is starting to sound more like a player's insatiable appetite problem more than a DE content problem.

I chuckled at 'starting'. 

[(PSN)drpunk-yo]

The real issue with the system that I see is that people don't seem too bothered about converting their liches.

No idea how they make that more attractive but fortunately it ain't my job to do so.

What's kinda funny though is if DE do make it more attractive then suddenly everyone who killed everything and ignored converting are gonna be angry.

[IntheCoconut]

17 hours ago, Avienas said:

Alot of the time could of been spent such as having the lich giving a bonus to the resources it pilfered from you, once taken down depending on its rank, including extra missions to allow doing a sabotage special mission to let you destroy thar kuva lich weapon so you can force them to get another one, which could allow you to re-roll what weapon they have. Plus have the RANK of the lich actually decide what kind of % of bonus elemental it would have. If i have to suplex a rank 5 lich straight into atomized dust particles, i would like that high level, difficult fight, to let me get a nice CHONKY reward from it.

Oh man, you are talking my language now. I am SUCH a nerd for quality-of-life. Don't get me wrong, I love new content, but I love love love when DE goes back and beefs up existing content. What you mentioned sounds like absolute music to my ears. I'd love the idea of being able to run a sabotage mission to break a Lich's current weapon as a way to "reroll" it. The wonderful thing for DE is that sabotage missions already exist in the game, so they technically wouldn't even need to create anything new for it if they didn't want to. Maximum development efficiency for them, while still providing a much-requested feature. I also like your idea of better rewards as incentive for letting your Lich grow in rank. Dang it, I wish I didn't read your post, I want this to be a thing.

[Vyra]

5 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

Is a 3rd option when killing them such a daunting expectation? Is it unreasonable to expect DE to ask themselves "What will keep players coming back after they farm the weapons?" during development phases long before the update drops?

I have completed my focus farm for all 5 schools. I have hundreds of thousand of unused Endo. I have 2 rank 3 copies of every single Arcane I actually use. I have all in game weapons and frames. I'm in clan with people that mind their own business and rarely need help. I have max stockpile of void traces and syndicate standing for my 4 syndicates. I completed my Railjack.

What else was I supposed to be doing if not killing Liches? What was the rate I was "supposed" to be killing them? One per month? Does a Lich every 2 to 3 days per attempt and 3 over the weekend if I'm home sound so unreasonable?

Man it nothing personal, ... its just i hear people want more content or more to do or more reward...
Do you know what i really like to have? 3 more open worlds "at least", custom weapon stances, more operator customization / genetics ) more factions, The entire orbiter instead of just the small rooms we have... the list could go on and on...

But by the same time i know how hard it is to create stuff, especially if its unique.
First of all you can not force yourself to be creative, then when you're creative you can not just magically wave your hand and all is done... it needs time, it need configuration and compatibility.. across multiple platforms even...

Then there is the nerf folks who constantly complain about "OP STUFF" etc...
Then we have the vets who eat content easily and EVEN IF there is some kind of reward you get to hear "why would i do this for this little reward"....

I think i am lucky because i enjoy my time in the game, even if i just level up weapons nobody likes, go fishing, mien gems or try to make money outside of index...
I enjoy the game and its world... for me the game is a place to be... not another "workplace" where i seek to keep myself busy...
To me Warframe is like a Party or a Meadow, i go there to enjoy the environment.

Some other people play for the social aspect, and then there seems to be people who want to have something to do and they also want reward...
Problem with that is no one can still the hunger of that kind of people.. nowhere..IF that would be the case, people would be there...

Even games like Eve Online have a point where Vets get bored and complain to have nothing to do other than making plex to sell...
And that game is even bigger and exists longer, has a huge team and a huge base...so....

I guess, until there are new things to do in a game, try making cash?
Why not make community events?
I remember when we got burned out from STO or Champions online, we did farm Crystals, converted them to the premium currency and created ingame events.
Cinematic Events, Fashion Events, Tactical Gameplay Events, Duelling Events etc... we had up to 5 prices each theme.

So if you're interested, just farm Platin, host Events, entertain people, make yourself a name.. maybe even get involved with DE and become a community manager.
really everything is possible.