Devstream: Empyrean, Feed Back. Are you Listening DE?

[Kaadu]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I don’t mind the going around and patching up holes gameplay. I do very much mind the fact that we need to spend ship resources to reload our fire extinguisher tho. That’s honestly just dumb.

Beyond needing resources: The next level dumb idea is that you need to level up your skills (intrinsics) to be able to even craft extinguisher ammo in the forge.

1 hour ago, ixidron92 said:

I guess it would be disabled at first and you'd have to repair it, much like reviving a downed player, but yeah, there has to be a way to fail the mission, otherwise it's pointless to have an HP bar at all.

Each mission objective or point of interest could have it's own fail state.
Like a time limit to destroy all the cruisers in the area before they move on. Or points of interest operating like bounty objectives.

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Kaadu
added railjack death failstate alternative

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

2 hours ago, peterc3 said:

I would expect most, if not all, people playing in the same region to speak the same language. If not speak, be able to read it.

Sucks when that one guy who dosent speak or read English wants to play in a squad right?

[Seph-Aldaire]

Tbh easy solution, 5-6 tenno gamemode.

still would be a bit boring in most people's cases though.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Oakjaw
Further comments

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

59 minutes ago, Kaadu said:

Beyond needing resources: The next level dumb idea is that you need to level up your skills (intrinsics) to be able to even craft extinguisher ammo in the forge

Tbf if you have to do that it’ll probably 1st level stuff as a way to introduce it to the player.

[(PSN)drollive96]

This is an mmo style game, and most mmos have difficult missions which require different roles, honestly this may be the thing that could replace raids (For me), it looks like its actually difficult, no more running through a mission mindlessly shooting things completely unable to die or fail. Players will actually have to try, which is a good thing. Provided it is executed properly and DE finds good rewards to give us for completing these missions , railjack could become my favorite game mode

[ixidron92]

hace 7 minutos, (PS4)drollive96 dijo:

This is an mmo style game, and most mmos have difficult missions which require different roles, honestly this may be the thing that could replace raids (For me), it looks like its actually difficult, no more running through a mission mindlessly shooting things completely unable to die or fail. Players will actually have to try, which is a good thing. Provided it is executed properly and DE finds good rewards to give us for completing these missions , railjack could become my favorite game mode

Yeah, but ammo drops normally by killing enemies. In railjack, you actually have to craft the ammo by farming resources beforehand and during gameplay. It's like WoW arrows and bullets all over again, but at least those took very little resources and were crafted by the thousands at a time. Remember that, mid devstream, they ran out of ammo several times.

Edited December 7, 2019 by ixidron92

[(PSN)drollive96]

True that does sound tedious and annoying but what we saw was the dev build, they could easily tone down the micro management a bit when it comes out so I'm not worried

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)drollive96 said:

This is an mmo style game, and most mmos have difficult missions which require different roles, honestly this may be the thing that could replace raids (For me), it looks like its actually difficult, no more running through a mission mindlessly shooting things completely unable to die or fail. Players will actually have to try, which is a good thing. Provided it is executed properly and DE finds good rewards to give us for completing these missions , railjack could become my favorite game mode

*recruit chat 

 

Lf waterboy to extinguish fires Mr18+ 50+ rail jack runs 

 

*waterboy hydroid main Mr20 250 runs -"inv"

[(PSN)drollive96]

You act like all people will be doing is putting out fires, yes that will be part of it, but you'll probably still be able to shoot things in between repairing the ship, so its probably not as bad as you think

[GruntBlender]

48 minutes ago, (PS4)drollive96 said:

This is an mmo style game

The first M in MMO stands for massively, not 4-person-squad. The only MMO parts are in noncombat areas. Open worlds should have had dedicated hosting and at least a dozen people on the map at once.

[morningstar999]

5 hours ago, ixidron92 said:

You have 4 players for: 2 turrets, 1 pilot, 1 big cannon, 2 forges, 1 archwing catapult, dealing with boarding parties, fixing hull breaches, putting out fires, farming resources live, boarding enemy ships, fighting in archwing mode alongside the railjack... 

I take you've never played guns of Icarus? you basically do this with four people on an ballon air ship and its amazing. 

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by morningstar999

[DOOMPATRIOT]

hace 6 horas, ixidron92 dijo:

I give it a 7/10 chances people are just gonna park their railjack far away from battle and do the entire mission in archwing mode.

And we all know how fun Archwing is right?

[Steel_Rook]

DE seem to have designed the Railjack backwards in my opinion. They seem to have started with a write-up of all the jobs the crew can do, then done their best to try and implement ALL OF THEM. As a result, they've ended up with a gigantic micromanagement mess. At least the power balance system from Star Trek: Bridge Crew seems to be gone, and good riddance to bad rubbish. I mean - I'm perfectly happy being the person running around welding holes and putting out fires. I mostly manned the Engineering console on Star Trek: Bridge Crew. I'm perfectly happy sitting nose-down into a screen keeping the ship running smoothly. The problem is the same with Railjack as it is with Bridge Crew - you do this stuff during downtime. Maybe what they showed wasn't representative of the final gameplay experience, but there didn't seem to BE downtime.

Have any of you guys played Barotrauma? If not, you should - it's an objective lesson on a lot of the ways you make a large-crew vessel work well... As well as on a lot of the ways you don't. The two lessons I personally took away from that, especially when designing my own subs, was that a proper multi-crew vehicle experience NEEDS a balance between downtime and uptime. During uptime, everyone mans battle stations, ready to fight, board or repel borders. I don't care if the Oxygen Generator is damaged, we'll fix it later. I don't care if the ballast tanks are flooded, help me kill these Mudraptors roaming the halls. I don't care if we're low on power - SURVIVE NOW, worry about it later. Unless the nuclear reactor is literally about to explode, I don't care - fight monsters. THEN when the dust settles, you run around patching holes, putting out fires, healing broken limbs and restocking the Coilguns before you move on again.

I've managed to play Barotrauma by myself with bots just fine precisely like that. Cover some distance, fight some monsters, put the sub on autopilot hold position and then run around doing inventory, repeat. If Railjack can manage that and doesn't expect the whole crew to be both IN COMBAT and IN MAINTENANCE at the same time, we'll be fine.

[GruntBlender]

There's a cephalon on board. If not for menial tasks like building ammo as needed, what is it for?

[MirageKnight]

20 minutes ago, GruntBlender said:

There's a cephalon on board...what is it for?

Give weird motivational speeches, act bossy,  and manage life support?

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

My hot take based on initial impressions:

• Drop the resource costs on consumables. I should not be wasting the resources I get in this game-mode on non-permanent additions to my ship, especially if other players waste my resources by firing all the missiles I've build with my own materials. Also, upgrade seem very expensive so far, yet rather necessary to perform, so perhaps make at least the early level gear more affordable. Also who pays for missiles or other stuff, the owner of the ship or individual players, out of their own account balance or a shared pool, unclear.
• While a small degree of crafting and ship maintenance is imho cool during missions, it should definitively be a rare and ideally optional feature. The main roles should be pilot, gunner and infiltrator, with the rest being short optional roles you only have to do every now and then in dire situations , and mostly kept for calm moments in between big conflicts.
• Fires should probably only occur when you get boarded, so at least the team has a good reason to come back and clear then repair the damage, instead of spending pretty much the whole mission fixing potholes in the ship from inside.
• Crafting should probably be cool-down based, instead of resources based, like at the start of you mission you have X missiles and when you run out , you gotta go and build some , which give you a cool-down before you build some more. Perhaps consider moving the weapon making station closer to the ship controls and key features like turrets instead of at the center of the ship.
• This needs solo features badly. I get what you are doing, but sorry, not everyone is a coordinated squad of mic-owning people, and personally I want to explore space at my own pace, not always have to account for multiple people and roles.
• I also feel like you should be allowed to run four railjacks simultaneously. I mean, you can already hijack ships anyway, so the game can in theory handle multiple ships at once, I just think most people want to pilot their own ship in cool space battles, not necessarily have three MR2 randos running in circles inside your ship while you try and fly and shoot it simultaneously, and it's simply more fun to each use their own ship, perhaps boarding another player's ship anyway at some point to help him.
• While it's cool that people without railjack can join yours, I still feel most player will want to use their own ship, with it's own upgrades and abilities. Also, it's a total gamble if you join a random game ,as you can in theory be matched with an user with a terrible ship... I feel like the ship used should always be the most upgraded one in a party, and that upgrades and abilities should be player based and not ship based. Basically, if you unlock building missile X on an account, you should always be able to use missile X on another player's railjack, since it's part of your skills.
• Really not a big fan of the team wipe mechanic. It's ok to have a fail state, but one that basically erases half an our of progression or more because the other players were careless and could not fulfill their roles should not occur... Especially since you're trying to encourage player switching roles and exploring the ship. Last thing I want is to leave helm of the ship for two minutes only to have it be destroyed because nobody took the helm and it's a frail ,easyily destructible ship.

Edited December 7, 2019 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[EinheriarJudith]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

~snip~

if none of these points get brought up, talked about, and addressed, its going to be an utter **** show of trolling, in fighting, and seperation of the player base.

Edit: its almost like they have no idea the kinds of different people that play warframe.

Edited December 7, 2019 by EinheriarJudith

[zakaryx]

As a pulsar lost colony player I'm going into this with a"help the crew so we all don't suffocate" mindset. 

 

If there's a role that needs to be filled I'd be willing to fill it to make sure we stay alive. 

Blowing up because nobody wanted to duct tape the side of the ship would be pretty pathetic.

Edited December 7, 2019 by zakaryx

[Test-995]

I like crafting, mining and repairing things, i'd do just that if anyone allow it.

[kapn655321]

:Raises hand:

Have you seen, "Guns of Icarus," or, "We Need To Go Deeper,"?

A buddy of mine is Super Hyped to pilot their own capitol ship.
I'm excited to be the support on their ship, because I would rather be putting out fires.
Some folks play support.

The Devstream was encouraging to me, because we saw how critical it was that the party managed the Railjack's support.
The whole reason I never got into Path Of Exile was from players telling me a full healer class was a total waste of mine and everyone else's time there.
So, having a dedicated support role does appeal to at least myself, and I'd imagine, others as well.

[Grahark]

This Entire game mode is doomed. Count up all the "I hate Limbo " Posts and multiply by a 1000. We wanted X-Wing with Space Ninjas and are getting Farm Frame inside the orbiter. Not gonna go well. 

[-Kittens-]

12 hours ago, ixidron92 said:

Do you expect 4 random people speaking different languages to make things work?

Yes, yes they do.

[-Kittens-]

 

5 hours ago, GruntBlender said:

There's a cephalon on board. If not for menial tasks like building ammo as needed, what is it for?

sass.

[Miyabi-sama]

All the people telling about abundance of trolls and playerbase division deserve as much respect to their opinion, as much they respect the average player of said playerbase.

If you so afraid of playing with living human being then advocate for EZ solo mode, just don't insult players and all who put their hopes in random matchmaking.

[zuraja]

13 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I don’t mind the going around and patching up holes gameplay. I do very much mind the fact that we need to spend ship resources to reload our fire extinguisher tho. That’s honestly just dumb.

Why do you even need to reload them at all?  It's just a fire extinguisher.  I should just be able to just stop at Space Walmart and buy four shopping carts full of the things any time I run low.