Thanks for Watching Devstream #134: Empyrean!

[Reifnir]

I really, REALLY dislike the idea of using resources mid-flight to power your ship's weapons/systems. We don't have to craft Kohm pellets out of Salvage or Ogris rockets out of Detonite Injectors for a reason - we use way, WAY too much ammo when playing due to how horde-based Warframe is, and Railjack is no exception.

Now, having them on cooldown/charges-per-mission and using said resources to upgrade that would be fine. But having to hand-craft every single torpedo? Not fun. Also, whose resources are we going to be using? Railjack owners? We'll never want to have any PUG crew wasting resources just to troll. It's like allowing team members in a pug to use YOUR Air Support Charges/pizzas. Joiners? We're unlikely to want to waste OUR resources with a host we don't trust, because NOTHING prevents them from aborting, and that's not to mention disconnects/crashes.

 

TL;DR: Spending resources mid-flight does NOT seem like a good idea. At all. 

[(XBOX)UndeadGalaxyWar]

Good devstream, ty DE for keeping us in the loop.

 

Personally for me and my friends I play with we found the death mechanic refreshing. I am all for keeping it.

Also all but one of the converted liches I’ve seen that come into battle to help you, don’t do much. They don’t use their skills, they kill a couple things and then peace out. I think it would be better if they killed x amount of enemies and used their skills for the short time they are there.

 So the one awesome converted Lich I saw came in when I was in a squad that was trying to kill a lvl 5 Lich. The one with radioactive grass and we were dying left and right... until this Rambo Converted Lich showed up and killed the Lich for us. That was bad ass and it would be awesome to see more of that.

thanks for reading 

[Bountyboy312]

 

16 hours ago, Reifnir said:

I really, REALLY dislike the idea of using resources mid-flight to power your ship's weapons/systems. We don't have to craft Kohm pellets out of Salvage or Ogris rockets out of Detonite Injectors for a reason - we use way, WAY too much ammo when playing due to how horde-based Warframe is, and Railjack is no exception.

Now, having them on cooldown/charges-per-mission and using said resources to upgrade that would be fine. But having to hand-craft every single torpedo? Not fun. Also, whose resources are we going to be using? Railjack owners? We'll never want to have any PUG crew wasting resources just to troll. It's like allowing team members in a pug to use YOUR Air Support Charges/pizzas. Joiners? We're unlikely to want to waste OUR resources with a host we don't trust, because NOTHING prevents them from aborting, and that's not to mention disconnects/crashes.

 

TL;DR: Spending resources mid-flight does NOT seem like a good idea. At all. 

Nobody cares so let's deal with it 

[ShaperOfForm]

22 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

TL;DR: Spending resources mid-flight does NOT seem like a good idea. At all.

If you were paying attention you can stock up on supplies before leaving on a mission.  

The only reason they didn't do that on the stream is because it was bugged. 

The ability to craft while on a mission is so you can replenish supplies on long play sessions or poor planning. 

 

[(PSN)FastestKnight]

1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

They also commented on how we're saying about things like open worlds being 'separate to the rest of the game' and left alone when finished, then subsequently show railjack that looks completely separate from the rest of the game.... and essentially a never ending resource grind/sink.....

 

I wonder why they said at Tennocon that Empyrean will be about "connection" and not another expansion just to have it run on an entirely separated map with its own separated missions and its own separated resource grind. 

 

What I also don't understand is how they plan those sweet sweet new players to stay by making it Co-op based (and non solo-friendly) with so many convoluted systems at launch.

[ChaosMarine]

Congratz DE, just about everyone looks to be disliking this. With Melee 3.0, we were advised to give it a try before hating it and after what looks like a 70/30 split of people disliking to liking it respectively (60/40 if I'm being overly generous), do you expect us to just believe you when you tell us everything will be okay with the upcoming Railjack?

[(PSN)FastestKnight]

1 hour ago, ValinorAtani said:

2 years later as "Railjack Revisited" probably (looking at you still sucking Arbitrations, ESO, 3rd Orb etc. Gamemodes..)

 

Don't forget New Player Experience!

[LSG501]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)FastestKnight said:

What I also don't understand is how they plan those sweet sweet new players to stay by making it Co-op based (and non solo-friendly) with so many convoluted systems at launch.

I'm sure DE will give us one of their perfectly done instruction manuals on how everything in railjack works... oh wait....

[Gildarts_bb]

22 minutes ago, ShaperOfForm said:

If you were paying attention you can stock up on supplies before leaving on a mission.  

The only reason they didn't do that on the stream is because it was bugged. 

The ability to craft while on a mission is so you can replenish supplies on long play sessions or poor planning. 

 

^^^^^ this, i swear its like no one was actually paying attention to the stream, at least now i know 1 other person was actually paying attention besides me 

[anfuerudo]

11 минут назад, Gildarts_bb сказал:

^^^^^ this, i swear its like no one was actually paying attention to the stream, at least now i know 1 other person was actually paying attention besides me 

And how do you stack on them if you don't have resources? Hmmmm...

[Gildarts_bb]

2 minutes ago, anfuerudo said:

And how do you stack on them if you don't have resources? Hmmmm...

a majority of those resources we already have access to if you were paying proper attention....

[anfuerudo]

11 минут назад, Gildarts_bb сказал:

a majority of those resources we already have access to if you were paying proper attention....

Yeah, right, I've missed that part.

So we need to RNG through rare drop resources not only to build our railjack, but to actually fly it effectively. Gotcha, it's even worse.

[Eklectus]

So, you're saying that the Lich breaks your arm, lifts you up off the ground and snaps your back over its knee before... dying? Despite just playing its "teleporting away" animation that we're lucky to even see because the camera focuses on your corpse?

I know you've been catching a lot of flak for the ass-backwards implementation, and rightfully so, but could you please make your damage-control lies a little more believable?

Also, I'll repeat this for the n-th time - dying to a cutscene is not a challenge. It's as much a victory for the enemy as rolling for a chance of your Lander getting shot down before even entering the mission. It's cheap, it doesn't make me go "okay Lich, you really got me this time" it makes me roll my eyes and refuse to touch this content ever again.

[anfuerudo]

3 минуты назад, Eklectus сказал:

So, you're saying that the Lich breaks your arm, lifts you up off the ground and snaps your back over its knee before... dying? Despite just playing its "teleporting away" animation that we're lucky to even see because the camera focuses on your corpse?

I know you've been catching a lot of flak for the ass-backwards implementation, and rightfully so, but could you please make your damage-control lies a little more believable?

Also, I'll repeat this for the n-th time - dying to a cutscene is not a challenge. It's as much a victory for the enemy as rolling for a chance of your Lander getting shot down before even entering the mission. It's cheap, it doesn't make me go "okay Lich, you really got me this time" it makes me roll my eyes and refuse to touch this content ever again.

So much this!

RNG is not a skill! RNG is not a challenge! RNG is an RNG, nothing more, nothing less.

[Reifnir]

58 minutes ago, ShaperOfForm said:

If you were paying attention you can stock up on supplies before leaving on a mission. 

It's no better. Imagine stocking up on dozens of artillery rounds only to have a troll on your team spam them into the sky just for the sake of fireworks - that would mean no PuGs allowed. Ever.

On the other side, if it's "you use it, you pay for it" who would want to waste their hard-earned resources in a PuG team where you can disconnect/crash/have the host flip out and abort on you all? Any takers? No? That means you're never going to see your crew firing your artillery cannon or using resource-consuming systems. Ever. 

[zGauche]

These streams are always at terrible times for players in other countries who always miss these rewards like the glaxion. It's such a shame there is an emphasis on supporting only those who have a similar time schedule with DE for these giveaways. I appreciate DE's gifts to the community and I understand their largest fan base gets access to this but so many players miss out purely because of time zone issues. 😔

[(PSN)xxav1xl6ivax]

1 hour ago, Reifnir said:

I really, REALLY dislike the idea of using resources mid-flight to power your ship's weapons/systems. We don't have to craft Kohm pellets out of Salvage or Ogris rockets out of Detonite Injectors for a reason - we use way, WAY too much ammo when playing due to how horde-based Warframe is, and Railjack is no exception.

Now, having them on cooldown/charges-per-mission and using said resources to upgrade that would be fine. But having to hand-craft every single torpedo? Not fun. Also, whose resources are we going to be using? Railjack owners? We'll never want to have any PUG crew wasting resources just to troll. It's like allowing team members in a pug to use YOUR Air Support Charges/pizzas. Joiners? We're unlikely to want to waste OUR resources with a host we don't trust, because NOTHING prevents them from aborting, and that's not to mention disconnects/crashes.

 

TL;DR: Spending resources mid-flight does NOT seem like a good idea. At all. 

 

[Gildarts_bb]

20 minutes ago, anfuerudo said:

Yeah, right, I've missed that part.

So we need to RNG through rare drop resources not only to build our railjack, but to actually fly it effectively. Gotcha, it's even worse.

rare drop? the farm for the railjack resources was one of the easiest i have had in warframe they are nowhere near "rare" resources lol 

[Gildarts_bb]

10 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

It's no better. Imagine stocking up on dozens of artillery rounds only to have a troll on your team spam them into the sky just for the sake of fireworks - that would mean no PuGs allowed. Ever.

On the other side, if it's "you use it, you pay for it" who would want to waste their hard-earned resources in a PuG team where you can disconnect/crash/have the host flip out and abort on you all? Any takers? No? That means you're never going to see your crew firing your artillery cannon or using resource-consuming systems. Ever. 

this i do see possibly being an issue 

[RobRalneR]

13 hours ago, Kaian-a-coel said:

Steve. STEVE. I can understand if the lich system was released barebones and crappy because time constraints and whatnot. Perfectly understandable. Gotta get something out before christmas and all. But if you say things like "the lich instakilling the player for doing the correct thing is the way we want things to be", I'm gonna be a little bit mad, because it wouldn't be the first time. And if you say stuff like "Liches have the life expectancy of and are as memorable as the average tissue paper because kuva weapon grind would have been too long otherwise", I will be very disappointed in your lack of vision and creativity. Because it is absolutely possible to conceive of a lich system where liches live long, yet the kuva weapons are obtained at a reasonable rate. I know that, because I bloody made one. This "dilemma" of lich lifespan versus kuva weapon grind is an illusory one. You can absolutely have your cake and eat it too, in that particular instance.

I tried your Kuva lich system and this was something (at least in approximation), I was expecting. Sadly what we got now is something the majority disliked.

I'm generally disappointed that we received a response that they're not gonna change it, at least for now but it's still disappointing.

[Rev14]

Il y a 3 heures, Uta_Redhead a dit :

ONLY,

But that’s the thing, not only. 

[Aurumhart]

4 hours ago, Kaian-a-coel said:

Steve. STEVE. I can understand if the lich system was released barebones and crappy because time constraints and whatnot. Perfectly understandable. Gotta get something out before christmas and all. But if you say things like "the lich instakilling the player for doing the correct thing is the way we want things to be", I'm gonna be a little bit mad, because it wouldn't be the first time. And if you say stuff like "Liches have the life expectancy of and are as memorable as the average tissue paper because kuva weapon grind would have been too long otherwise", I will be very disappointed in your lack of vision and creativity. Because it is absolutely possible to conceive of a lich system where liches live long, yet the kuva weapons are obtained at a reasonable rate. I know that, because I bloody made one. This "dilemma" of lich lifespan versus kuva weapon grind is an illusory one. You can absolutely have your cake and eat it too, in that particular instance.

I tried your system when you posted it and it works 100 times better than the one we have. Congratulations on making it, really. It would solve literally everything wrong with our current system. Lichs would become memorable, weapons and ephemeras are obtainable in the same way, requiem mods are included and it hints you on what mods should be used.

For reals, congratulations. Way superior.

[anfuerudo]

13 минут назад, Gildarts_bb сказал:

rare drop? the farm for the railjack resources once one of the easiest i have had in warframe they are nowhere near "rare" resources lol 

Yeah, laugh all you want. But I have to remind you that Carbides and Cubic Diodes drop from eximus units only on two planets, and you have to mine Pustrels and Copernics on PoE and OV respectively. And not to forget you only needed up to 120 of them for your Railjack. While single consumable can cost 35. So enjoy your constant fight against RNG to keep up with consumables.

[Gildarts_bb]

1 minute ago, anfuerudo said:

Yeah, laugh all you want. But I have to remind you that Carbides and Cubic Diodes drop from eximus units only on two planets, and you have to mine Pustrels and Copernics on PoE and OV respectively. And not to forget you only needed up to 120 of them for your Railjack. While single consumable can cost 35. So enjoy your constant fight against RNG to keep up with consumables.

since i already said i have farmed them i am aware of where to get them, and its not that big a deal and they also drop in the game mode itself. and they very clearly stated not to lock into the numbers of resources things required on the dev build as they were still in flux for balancing, again please pay attention. and i still have a couple hundred of most of those just from farming them for the riljack i doubt it will be that hard to build up a stockpile 

[ToKeSia]

4 hours ago, SethUnderwood said:

Dear Gamemasters of DE, You really need to respond better to the solo experience in the game. I understand the Railjack is to be a team theory, and there will be opportunity for solo play. But you've already mentioned that progression will not occur for solo players. So why bother with the game then? Why should I continue to pay you the sums of money I have already done so? Strictly from a business decision this is bad and nearly as bad as Dirty Bomb removing all its monetisation in Jan. 2019.

With this being said, I do think the solo experience, not just of Railjack, but even parts of the game as a whole, should be different for solo play. It should be exploring different story arcs that can only be found in solo play. Rewards only found in solo play just as much as certain rewards for group play. Each style would have their own rewards allowing players to choose their path or mix it up and go between the two.

One idea is you can explore in greater depths the whole alignment with solo play and special missions that integrate into the spirituality of the alignment. Involve Teshin. Involve Onkko. Missions with a choice at the end that can affect the players alignment. Maybe have two special weapons based on the three elements of the alignment- Sun, Neutral, and Moon. Rifle, Pistol, and Sword. And these weapons get boosted depending upon the alignment or not. Just don't make them OP.

It doesn't have to be a full cinematic quest. Just missions with some sort of choice at the end offered by either Teshin and/or Onkko.

 

you want content for solo only but do not forget this is an online game not offline game, you can't ask every content to be solo thing,