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Titania Deserves Something


NuclearCoffeePot

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Titania deserves a rework by now, sure she got some nice qol changes in update 26.0 but she didn't really get anything in the way of rework. And so as someone who loves the idea of Titania to death it is my pleasure to show my own ideas for a Titania rework, and my hope that I can get some good feedback, and maybe enough attention to spread these ideas up the line. With that said lets begin.

 

If you are going to comment, please be

Concise and Respectful

Refrain from Insults

Back up your arguments with reasoning

 

I will state the abilities in order, go over their problems from my perspective, and then propose my own ideas to alter or replace them in a way I think suits her kit.

Previous ability concepts in this quote

Quote

 

Starting with the passive-

Current:  Titania has an innate 25% bonus to bullet jump and roll distance and leave's behind a zone that grant's allies the same bonus when they move through it

Problem- This bonus is a great mobility boost and you can really feel it's effect...that is, when you aren't flying. That is the main problem. As Titania your main damage and survival come's from being in flight mode and thus you want to spend all your time in it. So the bonus doesn't really fit for Titania in practice, honestly it feels like it should be part of another frame like Nezha.

Idea- I want to push Razor flies into the limelight, giving them more focus in her kit so I want to state some mechanics for them here. 

First off- Razor flies can now be modded as a companion- my initial idea was for them to use the beast mods however

working as a sentinel with a sentinel melee weapon will allow it to mod both tankiness and damage without loosing either one.

Razor flies redirect a large percentage of damage that Titania would take onto themselves, tanking the damage for her(real queen of the swarm like)

Razor flies obviously draw aggro

Razor flies prioritize attacking enemies effected by 1 & 2(1 takes precedence over 2)

Onto the actual passive- On proccing crits or status effects there is a % chance to spawn a razor fly- up to 4(if a razorfly in 4 has died the first temporary razorfly spawned will become permanent and not count towards the passive limit

This allows Titania to create razorflies while not in her ultimate as well as generate new one's when those in Razorwing die

 

1- Current- Basically Titania applies the lifted status effect on enemies within a small radius of the target location and disarm them. The problem with this is A. it's not very effective B. It's basically lantern without a taunt or explosion C. It has such  a low radius even if the effect was tweaked it wouldn't effect enough enemies to be useful

Idea- Spellbind now activate's at the target area with a wider base range- enemies in the initial radius are lifted and

tethered together in a floating ball(locked in the air at the target location-  their is also a remaining aoe effect at the location that applies spellbind to enemies who enter and tether them into the ball- all enemies tethered into the sphere take dmg when one of them does. - Spellbind can have up to 4 balls active at any time- 

This incarnation of spellbind reduces the floatiness by binding the enemies together, make's it more effective with a residual effect, and enables enemies effected by spellbind to be easily damaged and killed

 

2-Current: aside from the generally ineffective buffs(though thorns got a nice dmg reduction addition and getting different buffs increases your max razorfly number's while in Razorwing)- aside from this the single target limitation on it's existing debuff, a lack of overall effectiveness and team assistance- Compared to Wisp's motes Titania's buffs aren't very useful at all and combining the fact that Wisp gain's invisibility while in the air and very significant damage output along with her buffs she just seems like a massively superior version of Titania

 

My Idea- Tribute now has 2 cast modes

1st type-button press- create an aoe dust/fog effect at the target location marking enemies for the buffs they pertain to- killing those enemies while the mark is active will cause Titania to gain the buff- enemies effected by the mark have their damage and defenses reduced(based on power strength) 

2nd type-hold to cast- Holding the ability button will create a wide range dust/ fog cloud that blankets an area for a duration(based on duration)- enemies who enter the zone have their damage and defenses reduced and are marked as long as they remain in the cloud- enemies who die while in this cloud dissolve their buff into the cloud- allies who enter the cloud receive the collected buffs while inside and for a duration after leaving(cloud aoe effect has a cylindrical shape the same way as Bastille so that even if Titania is above the cloud effect she will receive buffs as though she entered the zone)

Along with this buffs will need to be balanced, since it now effects multiple enemies buffs effects will be generally lowered in effect but the same buff can stack meaning that you can gain buffs superior to pre rework buff's by killing multiple enemies of the same mark but only receiving singular buffs will be sub-optimal 

In addition- Entangle buff should also effect action speed 

 

3- Currently 3 is basically just spellbind with a wonky taunt, some minor dps and an explosive effect- As a cc it doesn't work well and as dmg it doesn't work well. 

My Idea's- I played around with a few ideas in my head for this but eventually I settled on this for the moment.

Casting 3 while targeting an enemy will transform them into a lantern- a glowing orb of energy appearing inside a lantern structure emitting energy butterflies- enemies will have their max health, armor, and shields transformed into a flat number amount and multiplied by power strength mods- lantern lures enemies closer and when they come in range it expends from that number amount to deal dps to enemies by igniting them with spectral fire, channeling the number amount into radiation damage per second on the target 

3 can be cast on spellbound balls to turn all of them into a single lantern- this lantern will gain bonus range based on the number of enemies that were spellbound-

Lanterns will not expire until all their numbers have been expended in the form of damage- 

Lanterns drift towards enemies if there are none within taunt range- prioritizing enemies inside your 2 cloud

Potential support lantern idea- lantern expends numbers to restore nearby tenno shields, health, and energy

 

4- Current- Razorwing is Titania's signature and best ability - the damage is pretty nice though Diwata is meh

 

Idea- Diwata now has it;s own stance which causes it to release thorns to all nearby enemies on a crit proc- these thorns cause all nearby enemies to suffer a slash bleed and take puncture damage- this will let diwata's damage improve and give it greater effectiveness against groups

-in addition- i notice a lot of people want to be able to use other weapons while in Razorwing, since her 2 is a secondary and she has diwata I think that if you want this ability included it would have to mean that you can only swap to your primary while in Razorwing

 

 

New Concept Time- Thx for the assistance in making these ideas

 

 

Passive-Nest- Titania has a % chance to create a dormant razorfly within her "Nest" meter- These razorflies are activated and summoned via using abilities

Quote

 

-Razorflies are modable in the same way as sentinels by modding their body and weapon attacks separate

-Additionally Razorflies have 2 seperate features depending on if titania is within normal mode or in razorwing

-Normal Mode- While in standard mode Razorflies return a % of the damage they deal to enemies as healing towards the closest warframe- 

-Razorwing Mode- Razorfly's mark target's they attack, causing them to take increased crit and status effect damage

 

 1-Spellbind- I wasn't originally sure what to do with Spellbind but I've come up with an okay concept and I like the alt form-

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Normal function-Spellbind target's a location to create an aoe effect that suspends enemies within the area like in bastille(to retain a bit of the old ragdoll enemies are free floating for the first few moments of getting hit by spellbind before freezing in place- Casting this ability summons a razorfly from your Nest for every enemy within the radius which will attack them until the duration ends before spreading out and attacking enemies willy nilly

2-Dust Bloom-(yes I took the name from the old passive, it sounds better then fairy dust)-  

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Dust Bloom creates an aoe of magic dust around Titania- this dust make's Titania and other frame's invisible except for when they attack enemies with firearms- Razorflies damaging enemies does not deactivate the invisibility.

-While in normal Titania mode the Dust Bloom apply's a pacification effect to nearby enemies, causing them to not attack allies unless the ally damages them and reacting slower when they are attacked

-No matter the mode casting Dust Bloom will use up a % of your available dormant razorflies which will be summoned inside the cloud, these razorflies do not wander past the maximum range of the cloud 

 

3-Lantern(per request lantern has been combined with tribute in what I see to be a very effective tool)

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Casting Lantern at a target location will create a floating lantern for every ally near the target location- these lantern's tether onto the ally and follow them much like a sentinal would- If their are no allies in the radius it will instead create a stationary Lantern at the target location-

Effects- Lantern create;s an aura around it wherein enemies are attracted and attack it(though it take's no damage)

Cycle- The lantern has a unique mechanic wherein it cycles between 4 different buffs. The currently selected buff is marked above the heads of enemies who enter it;s radius, when any of said enemies die the lantern grants the tethered enemy the buff,cycles to the next buff and remarks enemies with the respective mark(stationary lanterns have an increased aura range and buffs are applied to the lantern itself so that any ally in range will recieve it for as long as they remain in range and for a short duration afterwards, much like wisp motes)- Lanterns continuously spawn razorflies starting with 4 and increasing by 1/1/2/2 per active buff

-No matter where it is cast Titania will receive her own lantern

-Lantern's act as proxy's for Titania's abilities when she cast's them- Casting 1 will suspend all enemies in the current  Lantern Radius and summon a razorfly from the lantern for every enemy held- these do not come from Nest- Casting 2 will cause the ally effected by Lantern to gain the dust cloud and it's effects- 

-Lantern Can see lantern's and all enemies within their aura through terrain(having her proxy ability cast;s being focused on one ally is a possibility- this would aid in that as well as help you keep track of everything

-Lantern buff cycle is tracked by a sidebar with the 4 icons, the respective icon glows when it is cycled onto and each icon will have a  number beside it indicating if it is in effect or not and if so how many of the same kind are in effect)

Augment-Beguiling lantern is actually a-okay and even better with this change

Tribute Buff Ideas:

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1-Sunrise- Sunrise increases status chance and ability damage for it;s owner

2-Wellspring- Increased Energy and Health drop chances

3-Brambles- Slow nearby enemies and passively deal dps to them with a chance to apply slash and puncture damage(alternatively your first attack on enemies effected by brambles guarantees a slash/ puncture proc)

4-Full Moon- Increase Companion damage(pets, sentinels, all razorflies)

 

4-Razorwing- here I will talk about the changes to abilities while using Razorwing and a few other changes

Quote

 

Activating Razorwing alters the following ability effects-

1-Dark/wicked Whimsy- Enemies caught in Spellbind now take immediate damage and are forced to take a guaranteed random status proc 

2-Dust Bloom's pacification aura is switched out for an armor reduction aura though enemies still have a delayed reaction time to damage

3- While in razorwing you may cast 3 on an enemy for 0 energy cost to cause all razorflies nearby to focus on them for a short duration- razorflies commanded to prioritize by 3 will ignore dust blooms roam limitation effect- Allies tethered to a lantern will cause their razorflies to focus the enemy they are currently attacking

Other changes:

-tapping 4 while looking at a lantern will cause you to blink to the location

-Casting Razorwing expends all available dormant razorflies to create a swirling tornado of them around you- These Razorflies attack all nearby enemies 

-All Razorflies receive a boost to attack speed(alternatively increasing status/crit chance)

-Diwata- Diwata now has a unique effect wherein whenever it crits on a foe it will release thorns towards nearby enemies- these thorns cause a bleed proc with a 50% chance to apply puncture(this allows diwata to easily fill nest and to be more group effective

-Otherwise I have no other changes to suggest other then qol for flight and this- Dex Pixia is great and all and with the razorflies marking enemies for bonus status damage and status procs now playing big into her kit it will improve the damage a good deal- my one complaint is that while I get that it is archwing Titania is a fairy and a traditional firearm doesn't feeel right. I would love if Dex Pixia got just a sound/ design change so that it felt like you were firing thistles or darts like the old myth of Loki who used a dart of mistletoe to kill baldur-

Also:New Augment- since razorwing blitz makes close space flying nigh impossible now- Razorwing spawns only 70% of available razorflies, however said razorflies can proc Diwata's thorn release effect

That's that- feel free to ask question and please continue to provide more suggestions you guys are the greatest

Here is a thought, rather then completely change Titania in nearly every way

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Passive- On bullet jump Titania can launch her razorwing, shrinking in size and gaining passive evasion, touching the ground will revert you into your normal form

+

Razorflies take damage and health stats from companions-

RAzorflies cling around their chosen ally-targeting enemies who aproach and distracting them

In normal form-RAzorflies defend their chosen ally

1-Spellbind- summons a cloud of razorflies at the target location which seek out enemies and apply the lifted status effect to them while continuing to attack them- After the duration of the lifted ends razorflies created will return to Titania;s side

2-Tribute- Target a zone and banish the souls within- these souls act as a buff and allies who pass near the zone will recieve it- if near a lantern the buffs will apply to the lantern holder

Buffs-

1-Wellspring-slain enemies drop bonus energy and health orbs- allies who recieve orbs gain increased effect, Lanterns will recieve health from both orbs when nearby allies pick them up

2-Thorns-Slow enemy action speeds- if they try to perform abilities or attack an ally they are instead stunned and recieve a slash proc for x seconds

3-Wild Blessing- Increased status and crit chance

4-Ephemera-Any damage that would strike you while the buff is applied is instead

 

3-Lantern- place a stationary object that attracts nearby enemies, aggro-ing them into attacking the lantern-lantern produces razorflies that cling to nearby allies or whatever ally holds the lantern

-lantern can be picked up by allies- for x seconds after the pickup lantern can be cast for a reduced energy cost- up to 4 lanterns can be active at once

-while in razorwing Titania gains the lantern effect if a lantern is active

-casting multiple lanterns refreshes and increases teh duration- increase has a diminishing return

 

4-Dex-Pull out dex weapons- utilize in either razorwing or normal form- In normal form- attacks spawn razorflies when proccing status or crit chance- In razorwing- attacks deal a radial burst of damage with 50% damage on headshot or crit proc

 

 

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42 minutes ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

Starting with the passive-

Current:  Titania has an innate 25% bonus to bullet jump and roll distance and leave's behind a zone that grant's allies the same bonus when they move through it

Problem- This bonus is a great mobility boost and you can really feel it's effect...that is, when you aren't flying. That is the main problem. As Titania your main damage and survival come's from being in flight mode and thus you want to spend all your time in it. So the bonus doesn't really fit for Titania in practice, honestly it feels like it should be part of another frame like Nezha.

Completely ignoring the rest of the post as IMO all thats needed for her is a improvement to lantern just as tribute went from useless to razorfly generator without dropping RW, the buller jump/roll distance does (or at least did and im suspecting that at some point since OV to now it no longer does) have a effect on her while flying. It boost(ed/s) her RW dodge length and barrel roll distance (same as how a lot of other frames passives keep/kept working in AW). Tho im some 60-70% sure its bugged and was bugged for at least a short while. And a effect that speeds up the pixie in not being caught/hit while leaving dust that does the same for allies is solid thematically.

So thats more in the line of "bug just like DE accidentally nerfing titania into being unable to boost while shooting" and "all AW cant sprint strafe anymore thus cant shoot to one side at a 40~60 degree angle while moving where one is pressing so you cant do "bombing runs" over enemies". All of which need to be fixed.

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9 часов назад, NuclearCoffeePot сказал:

4- Current- Razorwing is Titania's signature and best ability - the damage is pretty nice though Diwata is meh

Unfortunately, this only proves the fact that all of Titania's abilities are flawed. The damage is certainly good, but people don't seem to see that any frame can reach it. Basically, I can take a good weapon with a good build and automatically be better than Titania with a 200% strength build, which will constantly lose energy. At the moment - it's just a flying turret that can't use AOE weapons. Recent changes have shifted the mobility of the archwing for the worse. And I'm not talking about inertia, but speed. And if to speak about inertia, then its removing simply destroyed build on razorwing blitz - and means, DPS build more not can be used in normal conditions, if you not stand or recast ability to, to simply not crash in wall.

I can say that at the moment, the best bunch now is Latern + Lethz. Razorwing is only needed for mobility and save. I was afraid of and it happened.

Of course, I'm talking about playing solo. In a group, you won't feel it because there will be either a nuck frame or a player with AOE weapons. And I'm not saying the problem is the amount of damage, I'm saying the problem is the quality. That's why I believe that it is better to give the opportunity to put archwing weapons and provide the ability to increase weapon damage, that it was not a nerf. At the moment, archwing is fun, but there is a feeling that without it you are much more effective if you play on other abilities.

In my opinion - Titania is broken at the moment. Little changes won't help her. The problem is exactly how it feels. Archwing is the best ability because it gives unique movement rather than a lot of damage. A lot of damage can be done with another frame, just admit it. And the other frame can pick up weapons on situation, Titania same locked only on weapons direct damage and status. ( Just think at home that with AoE archwing weapons I could make an effective Titania in ESO because mobility archwing is a good game changer. Now this is impossible, we have only weapons direct damage. Rather, it is possible, but it takes too much time to change the form. You know, press 4, look for a group of enemies, press 4 again, kill all, press 4 again and look for enemies. I can't just shoot because Dex Pixia isn't effective in normal content. )

Titania has some concept problems that can be solved with Equinox mechanics, dividing Titania into two forms (normal as support, archwing as aggressive damage. DE don't want players to only play archwing. Players only want to play archwing. 2 forms are a compromise of this, as if changing the form will not expend energy, then for maximum efficiency you will need to maintain your support abilities in normal form, and therefore constantly change modes. This will work much more efficiently than a simple energy restriction, which can be ignored in highly specialized builds, but which breaks Titania as a whole.

Too much work for one frame? Not really.  The only big job will be precisely to create a concept of abilities for each form. Next, the concept can simply be implemented by copying the mechanics that have already been implemented. They may not even invent abilities for archwing, but simply rework razorwing and give Titania the ability to use any wings. That would be perfect.  In my opinion this is a better solution than just editing simple numbers which will still have a negative side due to the fact that the abilities initially have no synergy with each other and with the game as a whole. As I wrote above, Lathern + Lethz is the only normal synergy with the game that Titania has. Ah and murder of gemocite with the help razorwing in a special RW trololo strength build. Everything else seems like a big joke.

9 часов назад, NuclearCoffeePot сказал:

2-Current: aside from the generally ineffective buffs(though thorns got a nice dmg reduction addition and getting different buffs increases your max razorfly number's while in Razorwing)- aside from this the single target limitation on it's existing debuff, a lack of overall effectiveness and team assistance- Compared to Wisp's motes Titania's buffs aren't very useful at all and combining the fact that Wisp gain's invisibility while in the air and very significant damage output along with her buffs she just seems like a massively superior version of Titania

I fully agree with that.

9 часов назад, NuclearCoffeePot сказал:

1- Current- Basically Titania applies the lifted status effect on enemies within a small radius of the target location and disarm them. The problem with this is A. it's not very effective B. It's basically lantern without a taunt or explosion C. It has such a low radius even if the effect was tweaked it wouldn't effect enough enemies to be useful

Idea- Spellbind now activate's at the target area with a wider base range- enemies in the initial radius are lifted and

tethered together in a floating ball(locked in the air at the target location- their is also a remaining aoe effect at the location that applies spellbind to enemies who enter and tether them into the ball- all enemies tethered into the sphere take dmg when one of them does. - Spellbind can have up to 4 balls active at any time-

This incarnation of spellbind reduces the floatiness by binding the enemies together, make's it more effective with a residual effect, and enables enemies effected by spellbind to be easily damaged and killed

9 часов назад, NuclearCoffeePot сказал:

3- Currently 3 is basically just spellbind with a wonky taunt, some minor dps and an explosive effect- As a cc it doesn't work well and as dmg it doesn't work well.

My Idea's- I played around with a few ideas in my head for this but eventually I settled on this for the moment.

Casting 3 while targeting an enemy will transform them into a lantern- a glowing orb of energy appearing inside a lantern structure emitting energy butterflies- enemies will have their max health, armor, and shields transformed into a flat number amount and multiplied by power strength mods- lantern lures enemies closer and when they come in range it expends from that number amount to deal dps to enemies by igniting them with spectral fire, channeling the number amount into radiation damage per second on the target

3 can be cast on spellbound balls to turn all of them into a single lantern- this lantern will gain bonus range based on the number of enemies that were spellbound-

Lanterns will not expire until all their numbers have been expended in the form of damage-

Lanterns drift towards enemies if there are none within taunt range- prioritizing enemies inside your 2 cloud

Potential support lantern idea- lantern expends numbers to restore nearby tenno shields, health, and energy

I think the rag doll should stay on first ability. Yes, it is uncomfortable, but to some extent it also provides a unique feature that players are trying to destroy. Instead of destroying-you need to Supplement, give Titania more abilities that allow you to control pritivnikov in the air. It could also gain synergy with new melee strikes on the ground.

As for Latern, I like the idea of giving it more support, but I wish it could be controlled in a better way, since the control doesn't penetrate the wall pan and small obstacles can kill you. The only option that gives you control is to throw the Latern under the ceiling so that it illuminates a large area and ignores small obstacles on the ground. Players try to do the opposite and tie it to the ground, which is inefficient. My option is a Latern like object that can be dragged as volt shields. It is easy to implement and it will be very powerful. The second option, this control opponents in the air, about which I wrote higher.

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13 hours ago, zhellon said:

Unfortunately, this only proves the fact that all of Titania's abilities are flawed. The damage is certainly good, but people don't seem to see that any frame can reach it. Basically, I can take a good weapon with a good build and automatically be better than Titania with a 200% strength build, which will constantly lose energy. At the moment - it's just a flying turret that can't use AOE weapons. Recent changes have shifted the mobility of the archwing for the worse. And I'm not talking about inertia, but speed. And if to speak about inertia, then its removing simply destroyed build on razorwing blitz - and means, DPS build more not can be used in normal conditions, if you not stand or recast ability to, to simply not crash in wall.

13 hours ago, zhellon said:

f course, I'm talking about playing solo. In a group, you won't feel it because there will be either a nuck frame or a player with AOE weapons. And I'm not saying the problem is the amount of damage, I'm saying the problem is the quality. That's why I believe that it is better to give the opportunity to put archwing weapons and provide the ability to increase weapon damage, that it was not a nerf. At the moment, archwing is fun, but there is a feeling that without it you are much more effective if you play on other abilities.

In my opinion - Titania is broken at the moment. Little changes won't help her. The problem is exactly how it feels. Archwing is the best ability because it gives unique movement rather than a lot of damage. A lot of damage can be done with another frame, just admit it. And the other frame can pick up weapons on situation, Titania same locked only on weapons direct damage and status. ( Just think at home that with AoE archwing weapons I could make an effective Titania in ESO because mobility archwing is a good game changer. Now this is impossible, we have only weapons direct damage. Rather, it is possible, but it takes too much time to change the form. You know, press 4, look for a group of enemies, press 4 again, kill all, press 4 again and look for enemies. I can't just shoot because Dex Pixia isn't effective in normal content. )

I completely agree with these statements. Razorwing's best use really is it's mobility, the damage is alright up to a point, certainly not better then normal weapons however. THe new archwing changes have made her 4 feel more clunky now and I miss the smoother controls. One problem is that to take titania into content where her 4 can't deal the damage required means you must do as you stated, seek with 4, exit razorwing, kill, repeat. But if you get caught out by a stun or heavy damage when you exit 4 you die, you can cast 3 or 1 but the 3 taunt isn't always effective and 1 won't help with new enemies who come up behind you. I definitely agree with everything you have said here.

 

13 hours ago, zhellon said:

Titania has some concept problems that can be solved with Equinox mechanics, dividing Titania into two forms (normal as support, archwing as aggressive damage. DE don't want players to only play archwing. Players only want to play archwing. 2 forms are a compromise of this, as if changing the form will not expend energy, then for maximum efficiency you will need to maintain your support abilities in normal form, and therefore constantly change modes. This will work much more efficiently than a simple energy restriction, which can be ignored in highly specialized builds, but which breaks Titania as a whole.

An interesting concept, I will look into including this idea in a updated rework idea

 

13 hours ago, zhellon said:

think the rag doll should stay on first ability. Yes, it is uncomfortable, but to some extent it also provides a unique feature that players are trying to destroy. Instead of destroying-you need to Supplement, give Titania more abilities that allow you to control pritivnikov in the air. It could also gain synergy with new melee strikes on the ground.

Understandable pov

13 hours ago, zhellon said:

As for Latern, I like the idea of giving it more support, but I wish it could be controlled in a better way, since the control doesn't penetrate the wall pan and small obstacles can kill you. The only option that gives you control is to throw the Latern under the ceiling so that it illuminates a large area and ignores small obstacles on the ground. Players try to do the opposite and tie it to the ground, which is inefficient. My option is a Latern like object that can be dragged as volt shields. It is easy to implement and it will be very powerful. The second option, this control opponents in the air, about which I wrote higher.

Agreeable, the concept I gave for lantern was honestly kind of spur of the moment, I was toying around with a lot of ideas and eventually stuck with one that reminded me of old fairy myths where they lured people with will-o-wisps, which often appear in fiction as glowing lights

 

I will take all of these thoughts into account in altering, changing ideas to eventually create a rework iteration that is most pleasing to the community- Thank you for your feedback

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If they combined 1 and 3 so target is lifted and enemies around it are lifted (without 3's effects) then they could make her 1 into something like: 

 

Swarm: gather a swarm of defensive razor flies to protect titania each razor fly can absorb 100% of damage deal by a single attack (starts with 3/6/9/12 razor flies number increase with duration with a max of 30 razor flies)

then change her passive to: 30% chance to create a defensive razorfly every bullet jump and 30% chance to create an offensive razor fly every slide (they last for 30 seconds)

this alone would make titaina heaps better + more butterflies!!!!

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46 minutes ago, _Schokolade_ said:

If they combined 1 and 3 so target is lifted and enemies around it are lifted (without 3's effects) then they could make her 1 into something like: 

 

Swarm: gather a swarm of defensive razor flies to protect titania each razor fly can absorb 100% of damage deal by a single attack (starts with 3/6/9/12 razor flies number increase with duration with a max of 30 razor flies)

then change her passive to: 30% chance to create a defensive razorfly every bullet jump and 30% chance to create an offensive razor fly every slide (they last for 30 seconds)

this alone would make titaina heaps better + more butterflies!!!!

Nice Concept 🙂

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42 минуты назад, _Schokolade_ сказал:

then change her passive to: 30% chance to create a defensive razorfly every bullet jump and 30% chance to create an offensive razor fly every slide (they last for 30 seconds)

How will you use slide and bulletjump in razorwing?

43 минуты назад, _Schokolade_ сказал:

this alone would make titaina heaps better + more butterflies!!!!

You just gave Mesmer skin with butterfly animation. This does not implement any mechanics. It's just the most powerful defense in the game and it will work in any set. On the other hand, invisibility is also a powerful defensive ability and is more suited to the concept.

But your mesmer skin implementation has nothing to do with the butterfly concept. If I put a S#&$ animation, the ability will not change. Only your perception of the game will change. Basically, you can already make hundreds of butterflies fly around you. Just use the razorwing + spellbind. It's just animations.

If you want to play it in the butterfly master, you need to think about the whole control system. For now, razorfly are just a free distraction of the enemy. It is sad. But their concept is very strong and they could have more features than now. In principle, if you think about the concept correctly, you can do something more than butterflies that attack enemies. Questions you should be asking:

1) How butterflies will be useful for the other abilities?

2) If butterflies connect with allies, how will they help them? Or will they broadcast your abilities? Then what will these abilities be and how will they help the allies?

3) If they attack opponents, will they weaken them? If so, how? If your butterflies will spread your abilities, what effects will affect the enemies?

4) How exactly can Titania exercise control over them? It seems to me that the HUD of butterflies and the marks of their location are mandatory for the concept.

I have nothing against Mesmer skin, but it's a very boring ability. I would prefer temporary invulnerability and invisibility with disabling all functionality, as is done at Wukong cloud, only much longer in duration and having interaction with abilities. In fact, suspending the game for a while to think about tactical possibilities would be much more fun if Titania had tactical possibilities. And butterflies just can become these tactical opportunities.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, zhellon said:

How will you use slide and bulletjump in razorwing?

You just gave Mesmer skin with butterfly animation. This does not implement any mechanics. It's just the most powerful defense in the game and it will work in any set. On the other hand, invisibility is also a powerful defensive ability and is more suited to the concept.

But your mesmer skin implementation has nothing to do with the butterfly concept. If I put a S#&$ animation, the ability will not change. Only your perception of the game will change. Basically, you can already make hundreds of butterflies fly around you. Just use the razorwing + spellbind. It's just animations.

If you want to play it in the butterfly master, you need to think about the whole control system. For now, razorfly are just a free distraction of the enemy. It is sad. But their concept is very strong and they could have more features than now. In principle, if you think about the concept correctly, you can do something more than butterflies that attack enemies. Questions you should be asking:

1) How butterflies will be useful for the other abilities?

2) If butterflies connect with allies, how will they help them? Or will they broadcast your abilities? Then what will these abilities be and how will they help the allies?

3) If they attack opponents, will they weaken them? If so, how? If your butterflies will spread your abilities, what effects will affect the enemies?

4) How exactly can Titania exercise control over them? It seems to me that the HUD of butterflies and the marks of their location are mandatory for the concept.

I have nothing against Mesmer skin, but it's a very boring ability. I would prefer temporary invulnerability and invisibility with disabling all functionality, as is done at Wukong cloud, only much longer in duration and having interaction with abilities. In fact, suspending the game for a while to think about tactical possibilities would be much more fun if Titania had tactical possibilities. And butterflies just can become these tactical opportunities.

 

 

hey bud i didnt even think of a full rework if you want to then go ahead. also i was thinking more on the lines of novas 1 but yeah meme skin

remember hydroids passive? yeah how does that help any of his abilities too? passives can be random, theme based, or intertwined. They dont all have to be intertwined.

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1 минуту назад, _Schokolade_ сказал:

hey bud i didnt even think of a full rework if you want to then go ahead.

Are you suggesting a massive ability change without rework? What's more, you do it in such a way that actually only passive ability and ability 1 are connected, and the rest of the kit doesn't interest you?

What is rework in your opinion? Because when you buff things, you don't change them, Just twist the numbers and correct the mechanics. You're offering new mechanics, and this is rework.

 

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1 hour ago, zhellon said:

Are you suggesting a massive ability change without rework? What's more, you do it in such a way that actually only passive ability and ability 1 are connected, and the rest of the kit doesn't interest you?

What is rework in your opinion? Because when you buff things, you don't change them, Just twist the numbers and correct the mechanics. You're offering new mechanics, and this is rework.

Please mates, rememeber, i did say to be respectful. Schokolade is suggesting a mechanical idea. He is not saying that titania doesn't need a full rework merely suggesting a part of it. You both make excellent points and gave good ideas on potential Titania suggestions. But please don't take this all to seriously. I don't want us arguing in this chat I want us to combine our ideas not compete over who's is better and who has a bigger IQ. 

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5 hours ago, zhellon said:

Are you suggesting a massive ability change without rework? What's more, you do it in such a way that actually only passive ability and ability 1 are connected, and the rest of the kit doesn't interest you?

What is rework in your opinion? Because when you buff things, you don't change them, Just twist the numbers and correct the mechanics. You're offering new mechanics, and this is rework.

 

Jesus just because i didn't think of a full kit doesn't mean you need to go off on me. God learn some manners.

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В 12/9/2019 в 4:02 AM, NuclearCoffeePot сказал:

Please mates, rememeber, i did say to be respectful.

В 12/9/2019 в 7:41 AM, _Schokolade_ сказал:

God learn some manners.

Have I offended anyone? If so, I apologize. But I don't see him getting personal. There's a problem I'm pointing to. Or how should I criticize the design without criticizing the design? 

I can say that I like his idea, it really is, it could close a lot of problems. But it does not work alone and it is not as necessary as it may seem.

If you take the revenant mesmer skin, you can find a lot of things that makes the ability in addition to protection:

1) In conjunction with the first ability you get additional charges. Plus the first ability distracts the enemy, which gives more protection. Plus free castes 1 ability to. That helps too.

2) With the help of 3 abilities, you impose mesmer skin on allies and objects. That might help, too.

3) With 4 ability, you gain damage accumulation even when the damage significantly exceeds your EHP.

Revenant has some tricks for this. So I'm trying to figure out what tricks Titania might have? Why mesmer skin? For example, Nezha's halo, which is also quite a powerful protection due to the mechanics of DPGate. Also, there are mechanics of evasion, which can be improved and it would give a lot for Titania and razorfly. On this my main question, why mesmer skin? 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, zhellon said:

Have I offended anyone? If so, I apologize. But I don't see him getting personal. There's a problem I'm pointing to. Or how should I criticize the design without criticizing the design? 

I understand you were simply pointing out issues. You made many valid points and constructive criticism is not a bad thing. I just want to ensure we aren't just arguing and are instead working towards a compromise to better suit all our opinions.

1 hour ago, zhellon said:

I can say that I like his idea, it really is, it could close a lot of problems. But it does not work alone and it is not as necessary as it may seem.

If you take the revenant mesmer skin, you can find a lot of things that makes the ability in addition to protection:

1) In conjunction with the first ability you get additional charges. Plus the first ability distracts the enemy, which gives more protection. Plus free castes 1 ability to. That helps too.

2) With the help of 3 abilities, you impose mesmer skin on allies and objects. That might help, too.

3) With 4 ability, you gain damage accumulation even when the damage significantly exceeds your EHP.

Revenant has some tricks for this. So I'm trying to figure out what tricks Titania might have? Why mesmer skin? For example, Nezha's halo, which is also quite a powerful protection due to the mechanics of DPGate. Also, there are mechanics of evasion, which can be improved and it would give a lot for Titania and razorfly. On this my main question, why mesmer skin? 

Indeed. The most important part of a kit is not each individual ability but how they synergize together to be most effective. Mesmer skin is a fantastic ability, though i feel the concept of the razorfly dmg redirection is more like nezha's 3 or Trinity's dmg link. Both you and Schokolade make good points and concepts will always have ups and downs. For example the idea of creating razorflies on bullet jump or slide is an interesting idea and filled with a whimsy that makes sense for a fairy frame. However Titania spends most of her time within razorwing and therefore is not often bullet jumping or sliding

 

On 2019-12-08 at 5:57 PM, zhellon said:

If you want to play it in the butterfly master, you need to think about the whole control system. For now, razorfly are just a free distraction of the enemy. It is sad. But their concept is very strong and they could have more features than now. In principle, if you think about the concept correctly, you can do something more than butterflies that attack enemies. Questions you should be asking:

1) How butterflies will be useful for the other abilities?

2) If butterflies connect with allies, how will they help them? Or will they broadcast your abilities? Then what will these abilities be and how will they help the allies?

3) If they attack opponents, will they weaken them? If so, how? If your butterflies will spread your abilities, what effects will affect the enemies?

4) How exactly can Titania exercise control over them? It seems to me that the HUD of butterflies and the marks of their location are mandatory for the concept.

I have nothing against Mesmer skin, but it's a very boring ability. I would prefer temporary invulnerability and invisibility with disabling all functionality, as is done at Wukong cloud, only much longer in duration and having interaction with abilities. In fact, suspending the game for a while to think about tactical possibilities would be much more fun if Titania had tactical possibilities. And butterflies just can become these tactical opportunities.

You make a very good point here. Titania feels like razor flies should play a much larger part in her kit. And while the idea of a tank titania with the razorwing dmg redirection is nice if we wanted it to fit her theme she would be gaining invisibility and playing tactically. Like other frames that are coming out, first with baruuk, then hildryn, now gauss and ember De is really plaing around with resource management as a mechanic for frames and it works really well. For Titania micromanaging razor flies can be her shtick, and using them as proxy;s to cast abilities and apply effects is a great idea.

Example idea-

1- remains spellbind

2- create a cloud around titania that makes her invisible while not attacking and marks nearby enemies with buffs that they drop on death

3- Razorfly swarm- Cast at a location/enemy to have active- non ally bound razorflies to teleport to the location and rapidly attack all enemies in the area

For every ally in a mission a razorfly will fly to them and sit on their shoulder or else fly around them- when titania uses 1 the razorfly will activate and fly to whatever target the ally it is effecting attacks and apply the spellbind effect to them. If razorfly casts 2 the cloud will appear around allies and grant them it;s effects. If using three she can select a razorfly on an ally(she can see razorlfies through the map and hovering your cursor near these marked razorflies will enable you to cast 3 on them) casting 3 will send a swarm of razorflies to surround the ally, deaing damage to nearby enemies and absorbing damage. If a razorfly dies the ally will recieve a random return of health, energy, or overshield

In this mock up idea(not serious this is just an example) a razorlfy will stick to every ally within your squad or perhaps affinity range, you can then use them as proxy's to assist. granting a squad invisibility and buffs, enabling them to kill enemies more eazily with a targeted cc, or saving an ally caught out by a group if enemies with a swarm of damage reduction flies that drop health, energy, and shield restores on death. Giving razorflies synergy to enhance the supportive fae aspect of her kit would be phenomenal. Obviously the idea above is not some idea I strongly believe in. It doesn;t touch on managing razor flies like a recourse or the split idea you proposed which I want to talk about now.

On 2019-12-07 at 8:57 AM, zhellon said:

Titania has some concept problems that can be solved with Equinox mechanics, dividing Titania into two forms (normal as support, archwing as aggressive damage. DE don't want players to only play archwing. Players only want to play archwing. 2 forms are a compromise of this, as if changing the form will not expend energy, then for maximum efficiency you will need to maintain your support abilities in normal form, and therefore constantly change modes. This will work much more efficiently than a simple energy restriction, which can be ignored in highly specialized builds, but which breaks Titania as a whole.

At first when I read this I thought you were talking about the equinox split clone and I got confused but it made sense when I reread it 🙂

The idea of splitting her kit into two parts one for a more supportive role, the other for a highly aggressive damage role would be very interesting. Harkening back to razor fly management that can make it all unique, you can split razorlfies between use as damage or support assistance. Or perhaps they work in the opposite of what she is in. If she is in support mode her razor flies will become a passively active aggressive force to protect your vulnerable self, and when you enter an aggression state they form up to replace you as the team support by going around to allies and assisting them. I don;t know if I like splitting the ideas between razorwing and normal state. Perhaps allowing her to switch between a supportive razorwing and an aggressive razorwing mode. 

Let me know what you think

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17 минут назад, NuclearCoffeePot сказал:

Let me know what you think

In fact, the idea of two forms is still quite raw. But I think it's necessary because Titania at the moment has a lot of things that work together but that can't be turned off or controlled.  

For example, if you take butterflies, you want them to be with you all the time. But if you want to play stealth, the butterflies will simply direct aggression at themselves. Yes, this is a problem on only spy missions, but still. Moreover, butterflies are quite stupid and without competent control, they will not follow you, which creates a gap in your defense. For now, recast razorwing solves this problem, but it looks more like a rake than a thought-out system.

At this point, I can identify three useful concepts that can be very powerfully developed. This is Titania 2x forms, razorfly control and latern support. Speelbind effects and tribute can really be conveyed by razorfly and latern. And I really like the idea of the Lantern, as the lantern which we were carrying on a mission of survival to make the infected vulnerable. This has a very good synergy with archwing mobility.

Спойлер

 

If Laterns are fixed in the air, it will create a powerful CC and can be a buff zone. In that case, we may need a Wukong cloud so we can place them safely. I mean the part that hides us and makes us invulnerable. We have razorwing, so the flight is already realized.

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1 hour ago, zhellon said:

At this point, I can identify three useful concepts that can be very powerfully developed. This is Titania 2x forms, razorfly control and latern support. Speelbind effects and tribute can really be conveyed by razorfly and latern. And I really like the idea of the Lantern, as the lantern which we were carrying on a mission of survival to make the infected vulnerable. This has a very good synergy with archwing mobility.

 

1 hour ago, zhellon said:

If Laterns are fixed in the air, it will create a powerful CC and can be a buff zone. In that case, we may need a Wukong cloud so we can place them safely. I mean the part that hides us and makes us invulnerable. We have razorwing, so the flight is already realized.

Thats a great idea. Here is my spin of it. 

Including the first two abilities from the example idea I gave here is a changed 3

Lantern-Lantern creates a lantern that taunts enemies into attacking it and reduces armor- the armor reduction is increased the more damage the lantern absorbs- enemies killed while effected by the lantern are absorbed into it and a % of their max health and armor will be channeled into allies to heal and buff them when they enter the area. Tap cast lantern to spawn it at a target area or ally- if it is spawned on an ally the lantern will hover above their head- Hold cast the lantern to spawn it above titania with an increased range

 

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3 hours ago, zhellon said:

Have I offended anyone? If so, I apologize. But I don't see him getting personal. There's a problem I'm pointing to. Or how should I criticize the design without criticizing the design? 

I can say that I like his idea, it really is, it could close a lot of problems. But it does not work alone and it is not as necessary as it may seem.

If you take the revenant mesmer skin, you can find a lot of things that makes the ability in addition to protection:

1) In conjunction with the first ability you get additional charges. Plus the first ability distracts the enemy, which gives more protection. Plus free castes 1 ability to. That helps too.

2) With the help of 3 abilities, you impose mesmer skin on allies and objects. That might help, too.

3) With 4 ability, you gain damage accumulation even when the damage significantly exceeds your EHP.

Revenant has some tricks for this. So I'm trying to figure out what tricks Titania might have? Why mesmer skin? For example, Nezha's halo, which is also quite a powerful protection due to the mechanics of DPGate. Also, there are mechanics of evasion, which can be improved and it would give a lot for Titania and razorfly. On this my main question, why mesmer skin? 

 

 

 

she isnt durable at all thats why her abilities are not AOE enough for mass stun or confusion while she also is far to soft and has no real defensive abilities

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3 минуты назад, _Schokolade_ сказал:

she isnt durable at all thats why her abilities are not AOE enough for mass stun or confusion while she also is far to soft and has no real defensive abilities

Ah, Latern in principle provides sufficient control over opponents and this have a good AOE. That they can fly away is not a problem if you use spam. There is more problem in the mechanics of the Lantern, the same ceiling walls are prevented. 

Me in principle suits mechanics Mesmer skin, if this will stems with other abilities and will help. But, my opinion about such mechanics is completely negative, because it makes your shields and hp completely useless. Yes, this frees up space for mods and makes the 300% strength RW blitz trollolo build more useful, but it seems to me that this is a dead end. Again, I hope that Titania will benefit more from the equipment than she does now, rather than being further removed from the game. For now, her connection to conventional weapons has been completely removed. Your suggestion removes her connection with the characteristics of survival. It's not good in a farm game.

37 минут назад, NuclearCoffeePot сказал:
Lantern-Lantern creates a lantern that taunts enemies into attacking it and reduces armor- the armor reduction is increased the more damage the lantern absorbs- enemies killed while effected by the lantern are absorbed into it and a % of their max health and armor will be channeled into allies to heal and buff them when they enter the area. Tap cast lantern to spawn it at a target area or ally- if it is spawned on an ally the lantern will hover above their head- Hold cast the lantern to spawn it above titania with an increased range

I was thinking about 4 different Laterns with different effects that Titania can place. That it was possible to have different setups and to use, for example, 2 laterns of 1 type and 2 different laterns. If you look at it as a buff system, you'll look at the team and pick what the team needs. Me seems this more better mechanics, than the search for a certain enemy for obtain a certain buff. Uyfff... Well, why not let the allies also carry Laterns in their hands, even with the condition of limiting the main weapon. This will give some gain in team coordination. Say, you give Latern, which control opponents, to tank (as inaros to example) and this makes ability to more effective, so as Inaros would still will is in the crowd enemies. I think it might even be too powerful in the right hands. 

I mean, I just combined the concepts of Latern and Tribute. I don't know what the developers wanted to say by making these abilities, but this message can be quite kept that way.

 

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3 hours ago, _Schokolade_ said:

she isnt durable at all thats why her abilities are not AOE enough for mass stun or confusion while she also is far to soft and has no real defensive abilities

She is actually very durable with the damage reduction while in air mods and damage reduction buff .

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11 минут назад, _Schokolade_ сказал:

yes so basically when you run out of 4 your dead.

Well, you can jump. According to my observations, the resist persists for some time when you touch the ground, so the Bunny works. I would not give up resisting status and control as a passive ability when Titania is in the air. Well, or at least a longer or convenient spellbind.

Basically, this works on any frame.

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1 hour ago, _Schokolade_ said:

yes so basically when you run out of 4 your dead.

Personally im never really out of razorwing but even if you are you still can get 50% dr from thorns and you can jump like the last guy said 

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7 минут назад, Varja99 сказал:

but even if you are you still can get 50% dr from thorns

I'm going on a mission against corpus. ??? Where's my 50% DR buff?

It would be more useful if it could be maintained permanently, but you can't. Don't rely on this nonsense.

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