Cinderain Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) How about make stamina actually worth something instead of slowing anything down? They slowed things down? They decreased jogging, sprinting, sliding and wall-running speeds, or did they just make stamina cost more? Reward players for using stamina, not punish them. Huh? How so? I fixed that for you. The complaint was: "These mods address issues the wrong way. We asked for you to fix stuff like the old-man-get up, instead we get 2% drop chance rare mods that don't even work properly." and then, "We still don't like the bandaid crutches, and now you nerfed Stamina some more, only intensifying the problems from before." - at least try to pick strawman arguments that have some difficulty in disassembling. That's a bad fix. I didn't misunderstand any complaints. This community has too many individuals who do nothing but whine and contradict themselves in regards to every subject under the sun, I'm bluntly pointing that out by being a smart-&#!. There's nothing to disassemble, nor does there need to be. The complaint was: "These mods address issues the wrong way. We asked for you to fix stuff like the old-man-get up, instead we get 2% drop chance rare mods that don't even work properly." and then, "We still don't like the bandaid crutches, and now you nerfed Stamina some more, only intensifying the problems from before." Now that I read these again, I'm not sure how closely we're actually referring to the same thing. Edited October 1, 2013 by FatalX7
matto Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 Actually stamina is not really a problem. I thought we needed more slots to be able to use the stamina mods. But... most of the missions doesn't require to play with a full power build. You don't need focus except for Endless defense for example. And we got 3 screens to make our builds. Mine are as follow : 1 for high level, 1 for daily business, 1 for PvP. The problem is that people don't want to get rid of those mods, even for easy missions, just because there's this power race between us. Stamina is not an issue.
Ced23Ric Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 Now that I read these again, I'm not sure how closely we're actually referring to the same thing. That'd make either one of us or both of us quite foolish, now wouldn't it?
Cinderain Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 That'd make either one of us or both of us quite foolish, now wouldn't it? Only if you care enough about it. Consequences are for milk-drinkers.
General_Krull Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 They slowed things down? They decreased jogging, sprinting, sliding and wall-running speeds, or did they just make stamina cost more? You can't have one or the other, when you make stamina cost more it automatically leads to less sprinting and wall running. And they didn't even compensate void vaults for it. As to how to reward people for stamina usage? Make block useful as in it actually blocks all around you, each hit blocked drains stamina. Dodge should be even faster than it is now with invincibility frames so people would actually want to dodge. Sprinting shouldn't take stamina or they should drastically reduce the sprint stamina cost. We are super human space cyborg ninjas for gods sake, how does it make sense we run out of breath after 20 seconds (if that) sprinting?
Cinderain Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) You can't have one or the other, when you make stamina cost more it automatically leads to less sprinting and wall running. And they didn't even compensate void vaults for it. The speeds remained exactly the same. You're only slow if you choose to be slow. As to how to reward people for stamina usage? Make block useful as in it actually blocks all around you, each hit blocked drains stamina. Dodge should be even faster than it is now with invincibility frames so people would actually want to dodge. Sprinting shouldn't take stamina or they should drastically reduce the sprint stamina cost. We are super human space cyborg ninjas for gods sake, how does it make sense we run out of breath after 20 seconds (if that) sprinting? Blocking should be more useful, I like the idea of the mods they've made for it. But blocking all around you? That makes no sense, they should make a lot of fancy animations to go along with it. That'd be a lot of work. Dodging already received an increase in speed and you take less damage when you dodge. Invincibility frames? Those are cool, but they don't make sense either, all you're doing is rolling, not phasing out of reality. Maybe if they made a sexy new dodge animation. However, I thought we've been talking about speed and slowing things down, not blocking and dodging. Sprinting shouldn't take stamina, or it should be drastically reduced? Do you really want it to be that easy? And who ever said anything about running out of breath? Edited October 1, 2013 by FatalX7
General_Krull Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 The speeds remained exactly the same. You're only slow if you choose to be slow. Blocking should be more useful, I like the idea of the mods they've made for it. But blocking all around you? That makes no sense, they should make a lot of fancy animations to go along with it. That'd be a lot of work. Dodging already received an increase in speed and you take less damage when you dodge. Invincibility frames? Those are cool, but they don't make sense either, all you're doing is rolling, not phasing out of reality. Maybe if they made a sexy new dodge animation. However, I thought we've been talking about speed and slowing things down, not blocking and dodging. Sprinting shouldn't take stamina, or it should be drastically reduced? Do you really want it to be that easy? And who ever said anything about running out of breath? The mods are a bandaid, they don't solve the real issue, which is that blocking is worthless. And dodging having invincibility frames are a gameplay element to make sure hitscan weapons don't mess up your dodge, it introduces a skill factor to survivability instead of just taking cover or running past enemies. And we were talking about slowing things down and speed AND how stamina relates to those and how to make stamina worthwhile. Do you know what stamina is? It's endurance, how long you can maintain speed. So yes if you run out of stamina you essentially run out of breath. And as warframe is supposed to be a fastpaced space ninja shooter, mobility should be enhanced by a lot. Sprinting shouldn't take stamina because that would be and is slowing down gameplay. If you're worried about rushers then give them a reason not to rush, but this is not a topic for that and this is already derailed as hell.
HAYABU5A Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 i dont think there is enough whine to go with all our cheese and crackers
Cinderain Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 they don't solve the real issue Did I say they did? it introduces a skill factor to survivability It already does. And we were talking about slowing things down and speed AND how stamina relates to those and how to make stamina worthwhile. Sentences should be worded a little more efficiently. run out of breath. But you're not running out of breath, You're not keeling over out of exhaustion, you're still moving. Your suit runs out of the energy that gives you the capability to maintain those faster speeds and increased exertion of stamina-costing actions. The suit can then be upgraded for increased performance capabilities. Welcome to video games. mobility should be enhanced by a lot. You know that the mods we've had since the game came out do that and have always done that, right? that would be and is slowing down gameplay. No, only if you do nothing about it. give them a reason not to rush, Because that's easy to do. i dont think there is enough whine to go with all our cheese and crackers There never is. I want a reason to be serious again.
matto Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 Guys, calm down, there's someone that is all... :x
General_Krull Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 Voidgate has destroyed the community! Whose fault was that?
Cinderain Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 Guys, calm down, there's someone that is all... :x The chaos that would ensue... My goodness...
matto Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 http://cdn.meme.li/i/ov3pe.jpg Couldn't make a small one.
FrostWolf Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 Whose fault was that? Well like most scandals the sentiment had already been stewing for a while, VoidGate -cause all Scandals are called something-gate for some reason- just happened to be the straw that broke the camels back. Which is really funny is the day before Steve had essentially given this massive heartfelt "We're on your side guys" speech to quell the discontent over update 11... and then the Datamining happened and intentional or not for the most part DE has acted like they got caught red handed and with their pants down and a have fully accepted that they are at fault. The fault is on DE for basically putting off issues people have been bringing up for months almost taking advantage that the community gives DE the benefit of the doubt... they let the powder keg get bigger and bigger and now its just blown up. The discontent is blatant and barely restrained. We're just a few steps away from torches and pitchforks any good graces have been drained and what staunch defenders DE had left are either now apathetic, bitter or resentful. -or delusional/ outright refusing to accept DE has done wrong- The Community just has this taint of bitterness to it now. The optimism has be replaced with cynicism. Maybe they hope the next live stream and the Prime Stream can pump some hope/good vibes back into the community.
General_Krull Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 Well like most scandals the sentiment had already been stewing for a while, VoidGate -cause all Scandals are called something-gate for some reason- just happened to be the straw that broke the camels back. Which is really funny is the day before Steve had essentially given this massive heartfelt "We're on your side guys" speech to quell the discontent over update 11... and then the Datamining happened and intentional or not for the most part DE has acted like they got caught red handed and with their pants down and a have fully accepted that they are at fault. The fault is on DE for basically putting off issues people have been bringing up for months almost taking advantage that the community gives DE the benefit of the doubt... they let the powder keg get bigger and bigger and now its just blown up. The discontent is blatant and barely restrained. We're just a few steps away from torches and pitchforks any good graces have been drained and what staunch defenders DE had left are either now apathetic, bitter or resentful. -or delusional/ outright refusing to accept DE has done wrong- The Community just has this taint of bitterness to it now. The optimism has be replaced with cynicism. Maybe they hope the next live stream and the Prime Stream can pump some hope/good vibes back into the community. I agree 100%, how much understanding I have depends entirely if they address these past weeks at all in the livestream. If not, then the game truly will bleed out.
Mak_Gohae Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 We'll talk about the scarfs, while there's a million questions about the direction of the game. Dont act like no one cares about scarves and they used that as a smoke screen. Some people were interested and they got their questions answers. Now you wait for yours politely. How about make stamina actually worth something instead of slowing anything down? Reward players for using stamina, not punish them. The stamina is used as a strategic component.... use it strategically. I fixed that for you. The complaint was: "These mods address issues the wrong way. We asked for you to fix stuff like the old-man-get up, instead we get 2% drop chance rare mods that don't even work properly." and then, "We still don't like the bandaid crutches, and now you nerfed Stamina some more, only intensifying the problems from before." - at least try to pick strawman arguments that have some difficulty in disassembling. The mods addressed the issues the way DE explained they were going to do with the system. It's strange that you people are confused after they explained this. What's the point of the mod system when you want everything to be fixed outside of the system? Like i've been saying for a while, at that point they might as well scrap the system and give frames their own specific stats because no one is going to move away from the mods they always like using. The Flow, Continuity, Redirection, etc. With the mod system you can now actually have different frames setups that all work for a specific job but the problem with the game is that everyone is essentially powerful enough to take almost everything that get's thrown at them so no one tries to work together. No one goes in as a CQC specialist which a bunch of those parry, block, mods because they rather just storm through. The stamina change seemed like the first step in path that would make these types of builds useful, have a high speed frame, but DE backed away from that and messed themselves up. You can't have one or the other, when you make stamina cost more it automatically leads to less sprinting and wall running. And they didn't even compensate void vaults for it. It wasnt up long enough for proper testing but im sure the effects felt were minimal to actual gameplay. I didnt feel it as much because i dont play while having the sprint button down all the time. I think everyone knows that this isnt really a good mechanic which was why they kept asking for stamina to mean something. But when they made it mean something a certain group of people flipped out, i dont know if it was the same folks asking for a change, and this adjustment disappeared and we are back where we started. As to how to reward people for stamina usage? Make block useful as in it actually blocks all around you, each hit blocked drains stamina. Dodge should be even faster than it is now with invincibility frames so people would actually want to dodge. Sprinting shouldn't take stamina or they should drastically reduce the sprint stamina cost. We are super human space cyborg ninjas for gods sake, how does it make sense we run out of breath after 20 seconds (if that) sprinting? So basically you want stamina to matter even less? BTW, how much of a super human do you think we are? A lot of folks here are playing this game based on their own ideas rather than what DE has set up for us.
General_Krull Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 SNip A man once gave me wise advise "Krull" he said "never get in debate with Mak_Gohae, it will never lead to anything."
Mak_Gohae Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) A man once gave me wise advise "Krull" he said "never get in debate with Mak_Gohae, it will never lead to anything." Here is some wise advice from The Great Mak_Gohae.... "Dont reply if you are not going to say anything." Edited October 1, 2013 by Mak_Gohae
General_Krull Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 Here is some wise advice from The Great Mak_Gohae.... "Dont reply if you are not going to say anything." Okay.
Tartanu Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 The stamina is used as a strategic component.... use it strategically. Thanks for the biggest laugh I've had all day. Let's see, WarFARM, a game that emphasizes grinding above all else with its boring-&#!, monotonous gameplay, to the point where the only gratification element now is getting those BPs or mats to drop so you can wait a week for them to bake in your foundry, is slowing the game down for "strategic" reasons. People in my clan already watch videos and do other S#&$ while running T3 void, so it should give you an idea of how much actual brain input is needed for this game. DE designed this game as a no-skill farmfest. Once you pass the starry-eyed noob phase, the only reason you play this game is to run through a mission and make it through extraction as quickly as possible in order to have another shot with the fickle RNG god. Is anyone surprised that people would be upset when even this tiny sliver of engagement is ruined by useless annoyances like stamina gimping?
Mak_Gohae Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 Thanks for the biggest laugh I've had all day. Let's see, WarFARM, a game that emphasizes grinding above all else with its boring-&#!, monotonous gameplay, to the point where the only gratification element now is getting those BPs or mats to drop so you can wait a week for them to bake in your foundry, is slowing the game down for "strategic" reasons. People in my clan already watch videos and do other S#&$ while running T3 void, so it should give you an idea of how much actual brain input is needed for this game. DE designed this game as a no-skill farmfest. Once you pass the starry-eyed noob phase, the only reason you play this game is to run through a mission and make it through extraction as quickly as possible in order to have another shot with the fickle RNG god. Is anyone surprised that people would be upset when even this tiny sliver of engagement is ruined by useless annoyances like stamina gimping? What does picking up items have to do with combat where you cant dash about as long as you want?
NIL0S Posted October 1, 2013 Author Posted October 1, 2013 (...) The Community just has this taint of bitterness to it now. The optimism has be replaced with cynicism. (...) Sad but true.
[DE]Rebecca Posted October 1, 2013 Posted October 1, 2013 Derailed, locking, department-focused Livestreams happen often (Warframe Art, Animation, Sound, LevelDesign, now Concept Art). While this may seem poorly timed to those who wish for more "serious" streams, the whole team works hard on this project and we would like to give all departments a chance to discuss their work on our Livestreams.
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