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(PS4)TheRocket91

Warframe needs pvp

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Warframe has evolved so much over the last 7 years that I have played it on and off. However we all know about the elephant in the room that is the Conclave and pvp. 

DE has been very diligent with their updates, progressing the game and community farther than anyone anticipated. This has been a long process of feedback, being transparent, and great communication with the community through Twitter, twitch, and events. 

In fact I'd go as far to say that DE is one of the most progressive when it comes to updating and balancing their game. Where does it stop? AT PVP. 

PVP (conclave) has never progressed and therefore continues to shrink and that is a major problem for branching out to new players. 

Why should they add PVP now? 

Look at any online competitive game and you will see the player base excels higher and faster than any pve online game.

Fortnite when it first was beta had a secondary mode which took the world by storm called battle royal. That's right... It was just a secondary mode to their PVE focused game play. This game has 8.3 concurrent players every month with an all time high of 78 million in August. Regardless of half being 8 yr Olds that's impressive and why the game continues to pull in revenue and in turn the devs bring in more as well. 

Apex legends another battle royal mode that took advantage of the publicity and popularity and it has ramped up more than warframe could ever dream. (I haven't even played Apex legends im just looking at the statistics.) 

Warframe in the last few months has had a monthly high of 47k users. Apex legends has a Weekly average of 8-10 million users. 

Before we jump on the bandwagon to warframe royal let's look at some different online competitive pvp statistics. 

League of legends

very popular moba game with 27 million weekly players and 80 million a month. 

World of War raft CLASSIC

this is just the old school vanilla Wow version and in August had a peak of 12 million users and has kept its concurrent player base thus far. 

Player base for warframe has been declining since 2016 like a a dependable stock. In November 2018 warframe had a monthly base of 61k (peak of 131k). In fact if you look at the steam charts you can see that warframe player base peaked in end of 2017 to early 2019. However since August 2019 warframe has been steadily declining per month. What use to be a plus minus of 10k users from month to month has grown to 20k to 30k. The month of October showers a player base of 34k. 

Now just because the player base is declining that doesn't directly correlate with pvp, however... 

Warframe end game content is lacking both replay ability and competitiveness. 

Generally it is very hard to create pve content that has this replay ability. 

Pvp is the easiest route for warframe to Boom its player base in the online gaming industry. 

Pvp advantages

-End game content

-competitive

-bring in much larger player base

Pvp disadvantages

-balancing with pve (add different system like w0w with pvp resistance and dmg) 

-the strain on pve content on start up (focusing on pvp will take away from pve as it needs to be taken seriously and not thrown together for another conclave) 

I see warframe dwindling down to a player base of 20k in late 2020 if no additional changes are made for end game content. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by (PS4)TheRocket91
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Warframe has had multiple iterations of PvP. It simply isn't a game that's designed in a way that allows for a great PvP mode.

Other games with successful PvP are irrelevant. It's not the simple fact that they have PvP that makes them a success. Adding PvP to Warframe, even if it was successful (which it likely wouldn't be) isn't going to save the game, since a very small number of people even play these modes in PvE-focused games.

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Conclave as gamemode is fine, but amount of weapons and variables they have and how Warframe powers differ from PvE variant makes them nearly impossible to implement properly. And there is also problem with host-client connection. DE tried pvp focused games in the past and while they were original in terms of concept, they always fail on fundamental thing - stable servers and good connection.
Destiny shows that PvP can have a major place in PvE focused game. WF also have potential of being skill driven competitive pvp game (ye old Nikana/Hikou game mode for example) just lack focus and resources to do so.

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Multiple iterations? I have seen conclave as the only attempt which was botched very badly. 

But the numbers don't lie... Games with pvp do much better than games without and warframe player base is declining quickly. 

Other games with successful pvp are irrelevant is a very ignorant comment. You can't disprove that pvp isnt the reason nor can I prove it but it does show a correlation. Between successfully player base. 

 

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I'm not opposed to PvP being improved but lets not pretend that WF is remotely suitable for PvP at its core.

It doesn't "need" PvP by any stretch, because its always been the general consensus that most players don't come to WF for PvP. When i want PvP, i'll go play a game thats built to support PvP from the ground up rather then it being tacked on.

WF could improve the PvP dramatically and i can guarantee you that it would make almost no difference because most players don't play WF for PvP content. Wf attracts a different crowd generally.

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The moment I see the "Warframe needs PvP" title I know one of two things.  1) It's a joke thread.  2) Thread creator doesn't understand what makes Warframe Warframe, nor do they know what the word 'need' means.  It seems this was an example of the latter.

22 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRocket91 said:

In November 2028 warframe had a monthly base of 61k (peak of 131k).

I wasn't aware that the year 2028 had occurred yet.  You might want to edit that.

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Hate to break it to you, OP, but Warframe has PvP. It's called Conclave. Just one, tiny, not-so-insignificant catch... Almost nobody plays Conclave. Seriously.. I think the most activity Conclave has seen was... Tennobaum 2017 or 2018, when DE put a few Solstice skins and stuff in the Conclave to incite some season's beatings in the form of a snowball fight.

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12 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRocket91 said:

Multiple iterations? I have seen conclave as the only attempt which was botched very badly. 

But the numbers don't lie... Games with pvp do much better than games without and warframe player base is declining quickly. 

Other games with successful pvp are irrelevant is a very ignorant comment. You can't disprove that pvp isnt the reason nor can I prove it but it does show a correlation. Between successfully player base. 

 

You missed out on the solar rails then, probably for the best honestly because it was horrible.

As for the playerbase declining quickly? well thats an interesting assumption. If that were the case no amount of PvP short of it being literally the best thing since sliced bread would change that. It would probably have the opposite effect if it was anything short of perfect because it would mean DE would have to divert almost all resources to PvP and killing over half of their playerbase as a result.

Its about context, not everything is suitable for PvP, and not everyone plays a game for PvP. You can't make such broad generalizations like that. Why would I play WFs recently improved PvP when i could play literally any number of other games that will always have better PvP because they were designed that way from the ground up. WF has so many more variables then other games, especially PvP ones. As a general rule the more complicated a game is, the less suitable it is for PvP as balance becomes a huge issue.

Edited by StinkyPygmy
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6 minutes ago, NinjaKitsune56 said:

Hate to break it to you, OP, but Warframe has PvP. It's called Conclave. Just one, tiny, not-so-insignificant catch... Almost nobody plays Conclave. Seriously.. I think the most activity Conclave has seen was... Tennobaum 2017 or 2018, when DE put a few Solstice skins and stuff in the Conclave to incite some season's beatings in the form of a snowball fight.

2017 2018 coincidentally being the highest spike in population base... Hmmm

Edited by (PS4)TheRocket91

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRocket91 said:

2017 2018 coincidentally being the highest spike in popular base... Hmmm

And that had nothing to do with a years worth of non PvP related updates? Sorry, but thats not a vaild point where there are a huge amount of other variables to consider.

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRocket91 said:

2017 2018 coincidentally being the highest spike in popular base... Hmmm

key word, in this case it is, since those numbers had nothing to do with conclave, and everything to do with the plains of eidolon and Fortuna

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1 minute ago, (PS4)TheRocket91 said:

2017 2018 coincidentally being the highest spike in popular base... Hmmm

Correlation =/= Causation.  Maybe you want to start proving things rather than just making assumptions and trying to fob them off as valid.  Some actual statistical analysis would be a good start, and remember that December is likely to have a spike in player numbers due to the holiday season.  Also remember that when PoE was released Warframe saw the highest player numbers it had ever seen so you also need to isolate particular updates in terms of what they... well... updated.

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My whole point is DE implemented the conclave and they don't update it or pay any attention to it and I believe that is a big mistake as they are losing player base every month. 

Any end game content would help warframe bloom but unfortunately there is none and that's not for a lack of trying (raids were botched) 

 

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRocket91 said:

My whole point is DE implemented the conclave and they don't update it or pay any attention to it and I believe that is a big mistake as they are losing player base every month. 

Any end game content would help warframe bloom but unfortunately there is none and that's not for a lack of trying (raids were botched) 

 

They actually have a small team that focuses primarily on conclave.

Look at it this way, the devs know most people do not play WF for PvP, they know because thats expressed by the playerbase and because they know that the game was never built with PvP in mind. It was added as a little nod for the players that wanted to try it out. thats it. 

So from DEs perspective, diverting a tonne of resources to focus on building up a mode that a majority of the playerbase doesn't actually care about, is a huge risk. If it doesn't absolutely blow everyone out of the water, then RIP DE, you just killed off your playerbase on a gamble that had very little chance of succeeding.

Good thing DE understands this and is focusing on building the game they want: a primarily PvE experience.

Edited by StinkyPygmy

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1 minute ago, StinkyPygmy said:

They actually have a small team that focuses primarily on conclave.

Look at it this way, the devs know most people do not play WF for PvP, they know because thats expressed by the playerbase and because they know that the game was never built with PvP in mind. It was added as a little nod for the players that wanted to try it out. thats it. 

So from DEs perspective, diverting a tonne of resources to focus on building up a mode that a majority of the playerbase doesn't actually care about, is a huge risk. If it doesn't absolutely blow everyone out of the water, then RIP DE, you just killed of your playerbase on a gamble that had very little chance of succeeding.

Bigger risk bigger reward... Regardless of assumptions or not.. Warframes player base is dying and what you are saying is let it die slowly xD

Honestly it doesnt need pvp It just has to have replay ability and challenge to qualify as end game content. Raids are huge pve staple but again, has to be done right. 

Rip DE and their 50k monthly users lol. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRocket91 said:

My whole point is DE implemented the conclave and they don't update it or pay any attention to it and I believe that is a big mistake as they are losing player base every month. 

But there is no causation present.  Warframe is losing players because DE haven't been putting out a steady stream of meaningful content.  It's been primarily skins/filler content.  If anything the fact that DE don't seem inclined to keeping Conclave relevant is an argument for why it should be removed.  I would say at least 95% of the playerbase doesn't/wouldn't care about any PvP when it comes to Warframe.  The only thing that would make PvP popular in Warframe would be for Conclave to receive meaningful exclusive rewards, but the increase in popularity would only last until people got those rewards and would probably fuel resentment towards DE since people didn't want to play PvP but had to in order to get those meaningful exclusive rewards.  Warframe is a PvE game and that is where DEs attention needs to be.  If people want to play a PvP game then they will play something else.

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRocket91 said:

Bigger risk bigger reward... Regardless of assumptions or not.. Warframes player base is dying and what you are saying is let it die slowly xD

Honestly it doesnt need pvp It just has to have replay ability and challenge to qualify as end game content. Raids are huge pve staple but again, has to be done right. 

Rip DE and their 50k monthly users lol. 

 

 

You really need to provide actual proof and sources rather than just saying things and thinking that makes it true...

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how this works. Lets say for a second numbers are declining in any significant manner, thats actually normal. much like the stock market, even games etc have fluxuations in concurrent playerbase till they reach an equilibrium. Not a single game out there has constant exponential growth.

Business is exactly the same. Fluctuations in growth. A downward spike doesnt single the end of all things. You have to take into account for sorts of variables  to make an accurate analysis. Thats how data works. You can't just look at one number and be like "well, thats all the info i need to make an accurate assertion". Its not that simple. And all this is giving you the benefit of doubt on your claim the playerbase is tanking

Edited by StinkyPygmy
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1 minute ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

 The only thing that would make PvP popular in Warframe would be for Conclave to receive meaningful exclusive rewards, but the increase in popularity would only last until people got those rewards 

You just described every aspect of all content in warframe. This is why end game content is needed. 

Something new comes out and people complete it and there's no replay ability. The argument for pvp is that if it takes off the replay ability is there. 

The only answer they have for endgame content is nightwave challenges and anyone can easily see its just a battle bass system lols... 

Idc if it's pvp orientated or not they need replayable content not grind and done. 

 

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Easy to look it up multiple sources show but I trust steam charts. 

And when I say spike Its present only in the last few months. 

Average Flux for warframe has been a plus minus of 10k concurrent monthly players and in last few months has increased by 100%. This is not an assumption just statistics. Facts.

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12 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRocket91 said:

Idc if it's pvp orientated or not they need replayable content not grind and done. 

You apparently do though.  Your thread is titled "Warframe needs PVP".  If all you cared about was for Warframe to have end-game content then why not title your post "Warframe needs end-game"?  Though even if you named it that, the thread would still be useless.  Basically everyone already knows Warframe needs some kind of real end-game content.

*EDIT*  Also, only just noticed that the thread has the MEGATHREAD tag.  Remove that.

Edited by Jiminez_Burial
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5 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

You apparently do though.  Your thread is titled "Warframe needs PVP".  If all you cared about was for Warframe to have end-game content then why not title your post "Warframe needs end-game"?  Though even if you named it that, the thread would still be useless.  Basically everyone already knows Warframe needs some kind of real end-game content.

And yet I also stated that I beleive pvp is the easiest content to produce for such endgame content. Clearly DE doesn't know how to make repayable content. Game will be dead by ps5 release. 

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21 minutes ago, (PS4)TheRocket91 said:

Easy to look it up multiple sources show but I trust steam charts. 

And when I say spike Its present only in the last few months. 

Average Flux for warframe has been a plus minus of 10k concurrent monthly players and in last few months has increased by 100%. This is not an assumption just statistics. Facts.

*uses one source of info that doesn't account for the entire playerbase and other platforms during one small period of time and provides nothing else then asserts its factually accurate*

*disregards everything stating how data analysis works*

People have been claiming WF will be dead every single year from its beginnings. Nothing ever changes.

Ok, well i'm done beating this dead horse. Guess the sky really is falling. I'll see you when WF releases on ps5 and is still alive.

Edited by StinkyPygmy
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1 hour ago, (PS4)TheRocket91 said:

Warframe has evolved so much over the last 7 years that I have played it on and off. However we all know about the elephant in the room that is the Conclave and pvp. 

DE has been very diligent with their updates, progressing the game and community farther than anyone anticipated. This has been a long process of feedback, being transparent, and great communication with the community through Twitter, twitch, and events. 

In fact I'd go as far to say that DE is one of the most progressive when it comes to updating and balancing their game. Where does it stop? AT PVP. 

PVP (conclave) has never progressed and therefore continues to shrink and that is a major problem for branching out to new players. 

Why should they add PVP now? 

Look at any online competitive game and you will see the player base excels higher and faster than any pve online game.

Fortnite when it first was beta had a secondary mode which took the world by storm called battle royal. That's right... It was just a secondary mode to their PVE focused game play. This game has 8.3 concurrent players every month with an all time high of 78 million in August. Regardless of half being 8 yr Olds that's impressive and why the game continues to pull in revenue and in turn the devs bring in more as well. 

Apex legends another battle royal mode that took advantage of the publicity and popularity and it has ramped up more than warframe could ever dream. (I haven't even played Apex legends im just looking at the statistics.) 

Warframe in the last few months has had a monthly high of 47k users. Apex legends has a Weekly average of 8-10 million users. 

Before we jump on the bandwagon to warframe royal let's look at some different online competitive pvp statistics. 

League of legends

very popular moba game with 27 million weekly players and 80 million a month. 

World of War raft CLASSIC

this is just the old school vanilla Wow version and in August had a peak of 12 million users and has kept its concurrent player base thus far. 

Player base for warframe has been declining since 2016 like a a dependable stock. In November 2018 warframe had a monthly base of 61k (peak of 131k). In fact if you look at the steam charts you can see that warframe player base peaked in end of 2017 to early 2019. However since August 2019 warframe has been steadily declining per month. What use to be a plus minus of 10k users from month to month has grown to 20k to 30k. The month of October showers a player base of 34k. 

Now just because the player base is declining that doesn't directly correlate with pvp, however... 

Warframe end game content is lacking both replay ability and competitiveness. 

Generally it is very hard to create pve content that has this replay ability. 

Pvp is the easiest route for warframe to Boom its player base in the online gaming industry. 

Pvp advantages

-End game content

-competitive

-bring in much larger player base

Pvp disadvantages

-balancing with pve (add different system like w0w with pvp resistance and dmg) 

-the strain on pve content on start up (focusing on pvp will take away from pve as it needs to be taken seriously and not thrown together for another conclave) 

I see warframe dwindling down to a player base of 20k in late 2020 if no additional changes are made for end game content. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

tf2 vet here

1. league is marketed for 13 yr olds and horny old people, its only there for the female champions and dota is doing more economically well

2. hahahaha apex legends and fortnite are already dead games

3. WoW is pretty dead too, so is overwatch, only kept around due to nostalgia

4. despite tf2 being nearly dead in terms of players, its still around due to its own quality

 

these games will die off in like a few years, do you even want warframe to survive past 2025? and judging by games like league and overwatch, sex sells more than gameplay. 

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7 hours ago, (PS4)TheRocket91 said:

Game will be dead by ps5 release. 

Dunno how you figure that. As of 2018, Warframe has over 50 million users across all current platforms, and I, for one, doubt they're one and done players. For a comparison, the last time Blizzard actually handed out player numbers, WoW had 5.5 million players.

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5 hours ago, NinjaKitsune56 said:

Dunno how you figure that. As of 2018, Warframe has over 50 million users across all current platforms, and I, for one, doubt they're one and done players. For a comparison, the last time Blizzard actually handed out player numbers, WoW had 5.5 million players.

You can look up concurrent players per month and warframe sits at 46k while w0w has 4.88 million subscribers... 

50 million registered players SINCE Launch lol that means absolutely nothing when only 0.01% play monthly.... ROFL 

Do you even research 🙂

 

 

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