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about "defense" gamemode


Sharkgoblin
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think of hydron for example, you dont really defend the objective and if you bring a crowd control frame people leave or yell at you, thats because the "defense" gamemode is not about defending, its about killing all enemies, defense in reality is an exterminate mission divided in waves 🤯

 

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I'm now curious WHAT cc frame did you use that you got such a reaction. If it's Limbo or Vauban, long duration short range is better on maps like Hydron to just wrap the pod in a safe cocoon and not slow down the killing pace. If it's Nova or any other mass slow frame, yeah, that also hurts the pace (nova can speed up enemies with negative str). Early waves on Hydron(or any defense for that matter) you rarely need crowd control unless you have no good damage dealer. Hydron is used for fast and efficient leveling, thus the faster the better and slow downs are not very appreciated.

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I can see OP's point.  Sure there is the macguffin that can't lose HP, which I guess makes it defend, but fundamentally you can only progress by letting that lose all HP (failure to defend) or kill everything (exterminate).  It's like half a defense.

However, I don't really have a problem with it.  Alternative that springs to mind is fixed timer ala survival; to which I say no thanks.  Come to think of it, that's mobile defense.

Edited by GibsonPrime
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Haven't seen reaction for bringing a cc frame, there's usually someone present who can handily kill everything.

but OP is right about the nature of defense missions, a wave ends when the enemies are killed, thus effectively an exterminate.  changing the condition to a timer (e.g. defend for x minutes or kill everything) would be more in line with defense, and at high enough levels CCing while the timer runs down could be more effective than killing.

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4 minutes ago, Invisibleaxeman said:

changing the condition to a timer (e.g. defend for x minutes

We kind of already have that game mode, it's called Mobile Defense 😛

(A game mode, mind you, that needs additions to the droptables ... no wait, it needs droptables in the first place, same for e.g. Hijack.)

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At lower levels there is no urgency to defend and it takes a while to get to that urgency 

I’m pretty sure enemies do prioritize the objective first already but if there was to be a timer instead of a kill requirement modes like interception and mobile defense already exist so how do you make defense any different 

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Defense are a slow endless misions(taking survival as the average [5 min. per rotation]). People want to do their missions as fast as they can. 

CC warframes slow down progression, and a mision that can be cleared quickly becomes a long run, lets say we want to reach rotation C (4th one), the first one 5, second you spend now 6-7 min thats 12, third arround another 6 min make 18, i dont think i have to develop more this part.

They probably go to def to get some weapons leveled up or something like that, large grup of enemies in a relative short spam of time, and your allies killing nearby you. Unless you really want to do a really long mission and find someone willing to stay with you CC is not that usefull.

hace 1 hora, KnossosTNC dijo:

You are trying to stop enemies from destroying the defense objective. Therefore, defense. Killing enemies just facilitates that; after all, dead enemies can't attack the objective.

 

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7 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

We kind of already have that game mode, it's called Mobile Defense 😛

(A game mode, mind you, that needs additions to the droptables ... no wait, it needs droptables in the first place, same for e.g. Hijack.)

in mobile defense it's not a requirement to kill everything to complete the mission.  a pure cc frame could have success there.

edit: oh hang on, that's what you said 🙂

Edited by Invisibleaxeman
mixed my heres and theres and also realised posters point
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39 minutes ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Defense can take awhile, killing them fast and having a speedva is most efficient. You'll understand when you've played a bit longer lol. No one wants to stay in there any longer than you have to

I think high range Radial Disarm Loki is also very fast clearing Hydron since disarming enemies causes them to rush the defense point.  Try Speed Nova with Radial Disarm Loki.  Wow.  

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1 hour ago, Rylatar said:

I'm now curious WHAT cc frame did you use that you got such a reaction. If it's Limbo or Vauban, long duration short range is better on maps like Hydron to just wrap the pod in a safe cocoon and not slow down the killing pace. If it's Nova or any other mass slow frame, yeah, that also hurts the pace (nova can speed up enemies with negative str). Early waves on Hydron(or any defense for that matter) you rarely need crowd control unless you have no good damage dealer. Hydron is used for fast and efficient leveling, thus the faster the better and slow downs are not very appreciated.

Personally i dont because its just faster to kill all the enemies so i use some form of nuke like for the yesterday "defense" sortie i highly ignored the defense guy, i just brought saryn with 280 range and 200 strenght and nuked everything with spores and miasma, also i see many saryn players using only miasma, thats not how you do it, use spores on a dude, then kill the dude with a melee weapon then press 4. If your build is not complete dogstuff then everything will die easily 

Edited by Sharkgoblin
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17 hours ago, Sharkgoblin said:

Personally i dont because its just faster to kill all the enemies so i use some form of nuke like for the yesterday "defense" sortie i highly ignored the defense guy, i just brought saryn with 280 range and 200 strenght and nuked everything with spores and miasma, also i see many saryn players using only miasma, thats not how you do it, use spores on a dude, then kill the dude with a melee weapon then press 4. If your build is not complete dogstuff then everything will die easily 

Well, that's true, I've been speaking mostly in terms of a random pug leveling group on Hydron, you don't always get that dream Saryn that'll get you through 25 waves in 28 minutes. At least Vauban can now deal some pretty solid damage lol. And honestly you can just bring Vazarin protective dash if you really need that safety net. Cc is now mostly useless and more often harms the pace of the game. At least fellas who don't use it properly do.

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18 hours ago, (PS4)CrazyBeaTzu said:

Defense can take awhile, killing them fast and having a speedva is most efficient. You'll understand when you've played a bit longer lol. No one wants to stay in there any longer than you have to

Except for the CC frames that might be trying to slow the pace to just better manage the objective.
They're not having a problem with it.

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12 minutes ago, Rylatar said:

pace of the game

Far more specifically the pace of the loot.

The pace of the game is more about how players wish to handle the situations.
The loot is it's own situation. Keeping the pod safe with slow methodical headshots might sound great if you're not only there for the xp and loot.

Perhaps in some right, the loot is harming the pace of the player, and encouraging a less welcoming or unique experience.

Edited by kapn655321
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On 2019-12-08 at 12:05 PM, GrimSinner said:

I think high range Radial Disarm Loki is also very fast clearing Hydron since disarming enemies causes them to rush the defense point.  Try Speed Nova with Radial Disarm Loki.  Wow.  

Yeah that's a nice combo, but most people freak out over Loki because they don't think that he'll contribute. But I have had some very pleasant surprises when they know how to use him and contribute. 

It's not so much the crowd control that's the problem. It's the abilities that slow the pace at which we can kill. 

Most of us groan when we see a slowva on Hydron, but smile for a speedva. Limbo makes us grumble, because we can kill stuff on our side rapidly but not on the outside. Frost makes us grumble sometimes, because a lot of Frosts, insist on putting multiple bubbles all over the blasted place and never show even a little courtesy to pop them when not in use. 

Heck, even Garuda and Revenant make us grumble sometimes if they slow down the killing of the last mob. 

It's not because the other frames cannot contribute to the defense. Just that we want to go fast, and at low levels, there are some frames that definitely go faster than others. 

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