Jump to content
Jade Shadows: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Melee Is The Most Overlooked And Underpowered Thing In The Game. Inexcusable.


Onite
 Share

Recommended Posts

Note: this is NOT a post about stealth, and stealth is NOT a solution to buffing melee.

 

     Simply put, melee in Warframe is not a viable option at all. The ONLY time people really seem to use it effectively is RARELY when people exploit the traits of rare weapons, like spamming a knockdown or stun.

 

The damage output is absolutely pathetic compared to both your guns and skills.

 

The Braton does 20 base damage a shot. And it shoots 11.25 times a second. That means an unranked Braton is doing

225 a second.

 

Now lets look at a Cronus, which is a straight upgrade better than the Skana (the starting sword.) It does 35 damage a slash and slashes 1.25 times a second. Which means you can do theoretically 43 damage a second.

 

220 vs 43.    You can do over 5 times more damage than a sword does at a safe distance while utilizing cover.

Whereas with the Sword, you have to travel into the enemy, exposing yourself before you even have a chance to land any damage. You also have to consider alot of enemies will knock you flat on your &#! with their own melee attacks if you get close to them.

 

 

Dont you think getting hit with a sword by a ninja should do significantly more damage than a single bullet does?

 

 

     In order to make melee weapons actually kill effectively, especially for the tradeoff of danger for what its worth, they need to seriously do atleast 100-150 more damage on average. Atleast. This sounds like alot of damage but remember we're still talking about base damage for melee here, the thing that is used the least in the game when it honestly should be used the most.

 

 

     Another proposal to fix this is to let us go into a Melee Mode. In this mode you would equip your melee weapon and actually have it out just like your Guns. In thise mode you would do much more damage and have a boost to deflection, movement speed, attack speed and blocking absorption.

 

To top it off, you could introduce fighting styles. Examples being things like REAL (or cool made up) fighting styles in martial arts.

IE: An offensive fighting style Type 1 gives you no blocking bonuses but gives you more attack power.

Offensive fighting style Type 2 gives you no blocking bonuses as well but gives you more attack speed and run speed.

 

You could have defensive fighting styles and other mixed kinds with different benefits to fit YOUR style of play,

 

Fighting styles could also have really cool animation sets. (just like how you can set stances for your Tenno.)

 

 

 

They seriously need to do something about melee, i've tried making the best melee builds for my tenno and none of them are actually good enough to use endgame, much less provide any sort of advantage whatsoever compared to guns and skills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree the DPS for normal attacks is too small, however I do not feel we need a mechanics overhaul, just some rebalancing.

Charge attacks are actually, for the most part, pretty balanced. In the current state of the game you ALWAYS spam charges if you want to melee.

But even charge damage should be upped some to make it truly worth it to use as a main form of combat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Blocking dont work as it should be. You block and you still get damage. You block and you cant counter-attack. You take two melee attacks and theres goes all your shield.

 

Now the elitists will say "live with it", but its not fair to just accept something that is broken.

Edited by Wolfstorm18
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Melee is a choice, you dont have to melee.

 

Melee isnt just about damage either, there are other useful such as AOE knock down, air glide, stunlock etc...

Thats exactly the thing i addressed in my thread. Thats not melee. Thats knock down, stunlock, and transportation exploitation. You're not actually using your melee weapon as a melee weapon.

 

Yes melee is a choice that i dont have to use. But that doesnt excuse the fact that its absolutely useless and that you're never going to really use it in the game. Melee is extremely important to a game like warframe. And just like how you dont want to use melee, i dont want to have to use guns. So dont assert your personal choices as the best ones to justify a lack of balance because your opinion is subjective without any sort of fact or logic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Melee don't run out of ammo.

Yes but this isnt a gamestyle like COD or Counter Strike or battlefield, where melee is a last ditch effort as an extent of real life.  Warframe is nothing even remotely close to a realistic real life shooter. Its made more like a hack and slash action game. Guns need just as much of a spot as guns and skills do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Melee don't run out of ammo.

No, but it leaves you out in the open, and shields and health eventually run out.

In the very least the DPS should at least be similar, not 20% or less *total* DPS with normal attacks, and leaving only guerrilla style hit 'n' run charge attack tactics as the only viable option.

*Edit marked by asterisks

Edited by LeoAtKnight
Link to comment
Share on other sites

well you can always use a Paris to 1 hit kill everything annoying u :D...

 

or not...try using a high -speed weapon such as dagger...or a very strong stun ability weapon like %&^or or Reaper Prime...which is the easiest weapon to master

 

as for improvement... i prefer a "aiming" for melee...cause it's completely make no sense when you cut enemies belly and his hole body been chop to half...also because i really like the " OFF WITH HIS HEAD" for melee :D

Edited by Doforcash
Link to comment
Share on other sites

well you can always use a Paris to 1 hit kill everything annoying u :D...

 

or not...try using a high -speed weapon such as dagger...or a very strong stun ability weapon like %&^or or Reaper Prime...which is the easiest weapon to master

 

Tried it, doesnt really do much.

 

I even made the fastest melee build in the game. I used  maxed fang that had a maxed fury in the build. Equipped on my maxed volt that had maxed speed. (which grants you +50% melee speed too, stacking.) even with all damage mods and maxed steel charge (which only gives 18% more) and it still didnt even scratch the DPS table compared to a gun.

Edited by Onite
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find myself using melee on low level missions and early defense waves to farm up energy orbs without consuming ammo, so that I have ample supply by the time waves 15-20 come rolling around. That's about it though; I've never understood why a giant blade (or a set of axes/daggers) is somehow incapable of dissecting a seemingly naked target. (here's looking at you, Ancients)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

   Another proposal to fix this is to let us go into a Melee Mode. In this mode you would equip your melee weapon and actually have it out just like your Guns. In thise mode you would do much more damage and have a boost to deflection, movement speed, attack speed and blocking absorption.

 

To top it off, you could introduce fighting styles. Examples being things like REAL (or cool made up) fighting styles in martial arts.

IE: An offensive fighting style Type 1 gives you no blocking bonuses but gives you more attack power.

Offensive fighting style Type 2 gives you no blocking bonuses as well but gives you more attack speed and run speed.

 

You could have defensive fighting styles and other mixed kinds with different benefits to fit YOUR style of play,

 

Fighting styles could also have really cool animation sets. (just like how you can set stances for your Tenno.)

 

 

 

They seriously need to do something about melee, i've tried making the best melee builds for my tenno and none of them are actually good enough to use endgame, much less provide any sort of advantage whatsoever compared to guns and skills.

 

This, a million times this. I have always been a fan of finesse and skill over brute force or "spray and pray". Tenno are pitched as being masters of gun and blade but so far they are only masters of gun with a slight knowledge of the pointy end goes in the other guy. It should be a personal preference to be a range orientated tenno or a melee orientated one, and if i do so choose one it shouldn't set me back because i didnt choose the other. I really really hope they change this up. I love this game i really do, ive played it since closed beta, and I've seen lots of things come and go but melee has always been the glaring weakness to me. If they fix melee and fix it well I will be sold on this game even more so than I am now.I want to feel like a bad &#! warrior flipping around and slicing my enemies limb from limb, not like another mindless trooper who sprays bullets at everything that moves.

Edited by Kortellus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where did we get the idea that melee should be "comparable" to primary and secondary weapons?

What is wrong with guns being "more powerful" than melee weapons?

So you see nothing wrong with a risky mechanic being vastly inferior in damage to a much safer alternative?

We should be rewarded with the risk we take to get up close with at least a decent amount of damage, instead of the mediocre mosquito bites we inflict.

And moreover, do you find nothing wrong with the fact that there is a mechanic actually implemented in the game yet it is completely useless? Do you find blocking, or dodging okay as well?

*Edit*

You say they are underpowered, yet as soon as a useful melee weapon comes out (galatine) everyone whines and howls op.

This is a charge attack weapon, and charge attacks are the closest thing we have to balance for melee. Normal attacks are the runt of the mechanic. The simply have no importance, unless you have a stagger weapon then you feel cool hitting an Ancient Disruptor first and knocking him back.

And I haven't actually seen too much "Galatine is OP!", in fact I have instead seen it referred to as a balanced weapon, due to its high damage but long as an obese mans crap charge time (It isn't actually that bad, but people exaggerate).

Edited by LeoAtKnight
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where did we get the idea that melee should be "comparable" to primary and secondary weapons?

What is wrong with guns being "more powerful" than melee weapons?

Because gameplay balance demands it. If you think melee weapons should be weaker than guns, then so should your secondary weapons and shurikens and kunai and the glaive and boltor and miter and ignis and bolto.

 

We both know thats not a good decision. Melee shouldnt be a bottom tier cosmetic decoration. Let it become part of the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So you see nothing wrong with a risky mechanic being vastly inferior in damage to a much safer alternative?

We should be rewarded with the risk we take to get up close with at least a decent amount of damage, instead of the mediocre mosquito bites we inflict.

And moreover, do you find nothing wrong with the fact that there is a mechanic actually implemented in the game yet it is completely useless? Do you find blocking, or dodging okay as well?

 

I am pointing out a potential thinking flaw:

 

You are assuming that going all melee should be balanced to going all guns.

My own version is: guns and melee are just components of the same game. You can choose the percentage mix, but it is overly ideal to think that they should be "equal". This isn't some class system where you can just choose one class at a time. You are holding all 3 weapon types at the same time.

 

And the "We should be rewarded with the risk we take to get up close" is another flaw imo.

 

Also, just to point out: I am NOT AGAINST buffing melee (even to the level that it matches or even surpasses guns) if it improves the overall game experience. I just don't agree with your reasoning.

Edited by smithf
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You say they are underpowered, yet as soon as a useful melee weapon comes out (galatine) everyone whines and howls op.

Its only OP when you're looking ONLY in the melee weapons category. Its basically an upgrade to the Gram, making it inferior. Honestly, the Galatine's qualities that are considered "op" feel slightly closer to how melee should be for large weapons. Not much slower than longswords, but greater reach and charge damage and stun radius.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am pointing out a potential thinking flaw:

 

You are assuming that going all melee should be balanced to going all guns.

My own version is: guns and melee are just components of the same game. You can choose the percentage mix, but it is overly ideal to think that they should be "equal". This isn't some class system where you can just choose one class at a time. You are holding all 3 weapon types at the same time.

 

And the "We should be rewarded with the risk we take to get up close" is another flaw imo.

 

Also, just to point out: I am NOT AGAINST buffing melee (even to the level that it matches or even surpasses guns) if it improves the overall game experience. I just don't agree with your reasoning.

 

You're not judging with all of the peices in consideration. The thing is, you have different warframes with different mod loadouts for different kinds of gameplay. Meaning if you wanted to only use swords, you could do so without completely going suicide based partly on your build. Another part of it is the skill ceiling and reward in your combat scenarios. shooting things is not difficult. You dont even have to move. Melee requires all the risks and offers little reward. When honestly, it should offer alot of reward for the risks you take by offering more damage and crowd control. Melee should also be much more stamina consuming to conserve Health and Shields in the form of blocking and dodging.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I pretty much agree with you. I am a melee fighter in-game, and a melee mode would work wonders for a lot of players. And the ability to give a stance to a warframe that is actually based on a martial art? I am a martial artist, and if I could give my warframe the same pose as the art I study, I would sh!t my pants. I hope DE listens and add a better melee system to the game in update 11 with the new armor and stealth system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where did we get the idea that melee should be "comparable" to primary and secondary weapons?

What is wrong with guns being "more powerful" than melee weapons?

 

Lack of diversity, for one. When one so clearly outpaces the other, the other might as well not be in the game, it's redundant.

 

Common sense for two. Getting hit with a big piece of metal typically inflicts a lot more damage to a living thing than getting hit with a relatively small bullet does, to say nothing of the motorbike-sized axes, swords, and hammers we have in-game. For a bit of history, note the introduction of things like "bayonets" in the 1600's; because despite common belief, prior to inventions like that, when (not if) a pack of angry armored guys with swords reached the guys with guns, the guys with the guns tended to get slaughtered unless they were backed up by pikemen.

Edited by Taranis49
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes to all, I mean the only reason to get a melee is this 1) Spin jump- Speed boost (and the most important) 2) AoE knock down

No more!

Even the new sword, it is almost 100% chance to get killed if you leave your cover vs mobs lv 250+ ...  so does melee have a lv restriction???

It seems that melee only works at lv 10-60... where even a Mk1 braton can do the work as u said before...

 

So yes Buff this!!! Melee mode is a great idea...  Theres a lot of nice melee weapons and all of them useless... except for dual zoren and maybe orthos,scindo,galantine and reaper prime. how ever they are just knock down... dont even need a fkn mod inside lol only fury for zoren and no more

Edited by kamimegurine
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, even if you manage to solve the balance issue, there's still the fact that melee simply isn't nearly as engaging as shooting in this game.There are no combos, there is no tactics or skill to melee.. just run into enemies and mash E (or mash and hold E).

 

So unless DE does something with the system, introducing more engaging mechanics to melee, even making melee stronger won't really solve that much.

 

Good first step would be the Melee mode idea. I don't think you'd even need to buff melee that much as long as you introduce some combos and combo multipliers.

Edited by LocoWithGun
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...