Jump to content
Jade Shadows: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Leeching on Railjack the optimal play?


Archimedes01
 Share

Recommended Posts

Just quickly going to copy-paste the response I made to these exact points.

 

"Having played a game with a situation similar to this (PoTC online), with the exact same potential for problems, there are solutions I can think of.

Crafting will most likely use the resources of the person doing the crafting, which would be scenario 2. And this question does have a pretty solid answer - if someone isn't willing to use their resources, and says so... switch roles. Like, seriously if you know why that's because they told you why, in which case the polite answer is 'Oh, Ok, I have plenty of resources, I'll build them. Take over for me whilst I do that.' If your response to the idea of that is 'why should I need to do that, they should have brought their own'... well, then, you're refusing to share for the mission, or were careless and didn't come prepared... in other words, problem 2 is only a problem if the person 'experiencing' the problem is themselves a part of the problem. Tragedy of the commons, I know

In terms of piloting, the solution PoTC came to was pretty elegant. The captain can always take the helm regardless of if another player is using it."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Been working on a few suggested solutions for these, and this thread made me consider a new one.

1. By default you use your own resources in completing tasks.
2. There is a public, "chest" of resources tied to that railjack that anyone can donate to any time, or drawn from For Tasks.
3. There is an emergency stash controlled by the owner of the railjack that only they can access and ration from manually.
and
4, The Owner of the railjack can "tap the pilot on the shoulder," and relieve them of that duty as they see fit. It's their ship, after all.

You will never have to expend more resources than you are comfortable with.
The party can make up the difference, or stock your ship as they see fit.
There's a backup plan in case someone's unloading all your loot, as you can have enough to ration to someone more responsible instead.
You'll never be backseated on your own ship.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd guess that resources picked up in the mission got into a resource pool for the ship that everyone has access to. At the end of the mission, everyone would each get the full amount of the unspent resources in a similar manner to how everyone can pick the same reward from a void relic and get a copy of it.

As I understood the resource stockpiling, we started the mission only with the components that we built and brought along before starting the mission, and if that effort wasn't put in, then there wouldn't be any consumables to use until the resources were collected in-mission.

Edited by FLSH_BNG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly I think it is going to be pretty hard to match make onto a random railjack at least for the first few months:

1. Right now only ~0.4% of Steam users have made their railjack according to steam achievements since rail jack allows 4 players ~1.6% of Steam users can be in mission on a steam account railjack at the same time max. (I'm ignoring other clients because I don't have the data)

2. Railjacks are clan tech so anyone who has one is a member of a clan and as long as the clan has other active members that gives them a pool of players to recruit from before opening the ship up to randos.

3. Players who are in clans with no active members are fairly likely solo players otherwise they would have left the clan or recruited more members, and solo players are going to take their railjack and fly it straight into the void without recruiting.

So until the number of players who own railjacks greatly increases you could easily get stuck looking for a public railjack for a mission and not be able to find one for hours at a time, especially if lots of players are trying to freeload.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Solutions. Before each mission starts, we have a screen like we had in Raids. On this screen is the amount of each resource a player has agreed to donate for the mission. This amount is then LOCKED IN when the mission starts, much like when you do Radshares and can see the relic they're bringing. Anyone attempting to leech will simply get called out before the mission can even be started. To prevent people simply trolling and wasting all your resources, the Captain has to authorize any crafting and he can relieve other players of any station on the ship if they're wasting resources to troll.

So what's to prevent the Captain from trolling? Reputation. At the end of the mission, the game generates an efficiency rating for the Host based on the amount that was crafted and crucially how much of it was used effectively eg 5 missile hits out of 8 launches hitting 5 cruisers instead of say a useless asteroid, so you know they're not firing them stupidly etc that sort of thing. You see a captain with a poor rating, you just choose not to join their mission. The rating is generated by the game to prevent players intentionally giving you a bad rating.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Miser_able said:

I don't get why people are so worried about trolls. If it's invite only, you would have to actually invite the people in which case you should only invite people you trust. Like say, friends or clan mates. 

There will be a public option.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last devstream rebecca had gone into a much higher level mission than she was ready to play. That in mind, I imagine these buildable tools being like team restores or stimms. Not something you need for the mission, but something to ease you out of a tricky situation.

 

Still, like with these consumables, railjack items should be made and used individually. No making multi tool ammo, just to have someone consume it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean, its optimal to leech in any situation, why even bother playing when you can watch youtube and get the same results without any risk of ban or w/e.

They ll just make it worse for the other players, but leeching is the way to go in warframe since a long time cause we are a "friendly" community.

I guess this is how they answer the request of the 2 sides of the player base.

The ones who want it to be easy and the others who want challenge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Selpar said:

3. Players who are in clans with no active members are fairly likely solo players otherwise they would have left the clan or recruited more members, and solo players are going to take their railjack and fly it straight into the void without recruiting.

I have solo clan with no friends, but I'm still mostly playing in public. There is no way I will fly alone in a multicrew ship. My reasoning for being in a solo clan, is that I'd rather have the control over the clan myself than let some A****** kick me out if I am not active for 0,5 seconds, or that he will delete it because of some random drama. I also like to decorate dojo to my liking. I just don't want to be in a crowded clan.

I am however part of an alliance of solo clans. So people like me, who are in solo clans, and very often play with no friends, will still want to play railjack in public. There is plenty of us, don't be afraid of it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, spirit_of_76 said:

@Selpar I wonder why that is it was not a hard quest.  

6 million credits is a daunting task for anyone who hasn't been playing for several years unless they are strong enough and willing to run The Index. If you average 15,000 credits a run it will take you 400 runs to reach 6 million credits, even if you rush and clear each run in 3 minutes on average that is still 20 solid hours of credit grinding. With The Index it "only" takes ~30ish High risk runs less if you stay invested or have a booster.

They also added 4 brand new resources to the game that only drop from a single planet each with no overlap so for players that don't use the wiki it will take some time to find and grind those out. Two of those are mining resources on the PoE and Orb Vallis so players who don't mine and don't read the wiki will probably never find them at all unless someone tells them directly...

15 Argon is a huge pain to get unless you like to run void survival for fun.

4 hours ago, Furebel said:

I have solo clan with no friends, but I'm still mostly playing in public. There is no way I will fly alone in a multicrew ship. My reasoning for being in a solo clan, is that I'd rather have the control over the clan myself than let some A****** kick me out if I am not active for 0,5 seconds, or that he will delete it because of some random drama. I also like to decorate dojo to my liking. I just don't want to be in a crowded clan.

I am however part of an alliance of solo clans. So people like me, who are in solo clans, and very often play with no friends, will still want to play railjack in public. There is plenty of us, don't be afraid of it.

Oh I'm not worried, I am the leader of a mostly inactive clan of just me a few friends that don't log in very often, but I've got my railjack and am totally going to fly it solo into the void.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

So what's to prevent the Captain from trolling? Reputation.

Quality scoring a player will cause reinforcement of poor performance and cooperation.

If your party did poorly, or if the scoring metric didn't work juust right,
the opinion of your performance will trend lower, as starting expectations will be negatively impacted..
reducing the expectation that better performance will matter in the mission.
Like a feedback that will get more pronounced and less possible to counteract.
While it may make them work harder, that hard work will have lower rates of return.
Likelier chance of burnout and undervaluing quality players.
More so, people sandbagging missions out of spite to ruin a players score would be a thing.

I suspect.

Also a chance of people just gaming some inconsistency to be a covert perfect reputation troll.
Player and your buddies get together and rate spam you until you look pristine, then catch people off guard.
Can you Alt+F4 before the rating happens to troll and keep a clear record?

What are your thoughts?

Edited by kapn655321
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, 32768 said:

I'd say that to address all of that questions they need to add ability to decompress particular section of the ship and suffocate that troll. Bonus points for also putting out the fires in that section.

Using the command menu to forcefully jettison crew members into archwing mode and lock them out of the ship until the mission is complete would be a fun option.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, o0Despair0o said:

Here's the solution:

Don't add operational costs for content now, after the game was going fine without it since, what, 2012?

Whoever had the idea to add these operational costs needs to be slapped left and right. With the backhand.

Honestly i am going to point out Space Lords here to this quote. They basically got rid of ammo which was one of the penalities the game forced people to run around. Namely they could not keep spamming gun-fire and can only get ammo by killing enemies thru melee to make them drop ammo. Clearly said system was a bad idea when you had ELITE enemies who could become melee invulnerable plus objectives that require you to shoot a sizable distance away because you could not use melee at all. Which honestly is RATHER OFTEN in most of the missions on that game that had bosses, Even the ones where you faced a humanoid boss, usually a character you can unlock to play as later down the line.

Instead, people have to dance around how they customize thar gun since reload times & magazine sizes got tweaked to compensate for having unlimited ammo but had to focus more heavily on the clip size.

In warframe`s case, we do not have to worry about ammo cause we are doing a ground-level apache helicopter impression and bulldozing thru enemies in a musou fashion as ammo just funnels straight into our pockets thanks to our vac-bot or good boi/girl who knows how to fetch loot and bend space-time to make it all float towards us, without them having to touch it.

Honestly the SMART approach would be that every player has a ammo stock period and 2 versions of resources could exist in-mission, `public version` and `personal stock`. Where the public stock is whatever the railjack picks up and can be used to create a `public version` of the ammunition that would get used first before a player has to dig into thar private stock, if they decide to switch to it. That or D.E. just takes the simple approach like Space-Lords and gets rid of the consumable item resource and put in over-heat & reload time systems that could be circumvented thru proper use of the systems (aka avoid spam use by keeping the trigger held all the time) and extra upgrades which could reduce the overheat delay & how long it takes for each `ammo clip` to be refilled, Likely to vary depending on the weaponry if D.E. actually pushes this customization and let us choose between some kind of Laser turrets or Space-grade Gatling guns. They already decided to get rid of the energy system of switching on/off various systems, i do not see why they can`t do the same and keep as much of the bad-design ideas away that would fit more in certain single player games, then a online game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Selpar said:

6 million credits is a daunting task for anyone who hasn't been playing for several years unless they are strong enough and willing to run The Index. If you average 15,000 credits a run it will take you 400 runs to reach 6 million credits, even if you rush and clear each run in 3 minutes on average that is still 20 solid hours of credit grinding. With The Index it "only" takes ~30ish High risk runs less if you stay invested or have a booster.

They also added 4 brand new resources to the game that only drop from a single planet each with no overlap so for players that don't use the wiki it will take some time to find and grind those out. Two of those are mining resources on the PoE and Orb Vallis so players who don't mine and don't read the wiki will probably never find them at all unless someone tells them directly...

Index is fairly easy even with a Valk (built Armor health and enemy radar) I could do 2 rounds of high index at a time thanks to the fragor prime with a heavy attack build.  I did luck out and got the 500 day ever green credit booster during the grind and went form 6m credits-2m back to 6m in only a few hours of casual pub high index (by the way if there is a friendly tank wisp is awesome to have on the team especially as Valk) hek my heavy attack build was 0 forma and did not deal the max possible damage it did how ever one shot all enemies until the last few min of the 3rd round of medium index.  I have only been playing for just under 2 years now and I could have easily done all of the needed construction if I did not proide all of the funds and most of the mats for the dry dock so that it would be built on time.  (I was lacking telerum and I am in a moon clan)

as far as the new resources it took me 2 runs each for a total of 40 min per and even less after the zones were swapped, the mined resources were not hard and paralleled with a night wave challenge it took maybe a total of an hour with most of the time in the spent in vallis because of the lower ore density (I also mined all of the nodes because why not).  

1 hour ago, Selpar said:

15 Argon is a huge pain to get unless you like to run void survival for fun.

this was a pain becasue for some reason it would not drop until the 3rd day of farming it and only after the 20m mark but I like playing the Void and previously averaged 4 every 10-20 min and for the last on I got 10 in the last 10 min I was there (I had a free booster from login so it ended up as 20 but I only needed 6 by the time I started the last farming run) but I also like Void survival and got a few good and fun parties (one has 2+ arc guns ruining around for the lols and because it takes any mission 30 min to actually get hard)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...