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(PS4)Fighter-Inferno_

I think it's time frost recieved some attention.

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For a long time frost had been considered a staple in defense missions because of how consistently reliable snow globe Is. But due to the growing strength of other frames that do similar things. Gara, limbo now vauban. Even to an extent volt. Frost has found himself with no real place in warframe, from being far too slow for open world content to having no real damage potential to make him good in endurance runs or even just high level quick missions like extermination and sabotage. 

Frost is now in a position where he's just never the right choice and that makes me pretty sad.  It would be good if perhaps he's the next frame to get an update,  since if I recall the last time he was changed was him recieving the ability to shatter his globes and them being changed to HP rather than duration based.

Personally I'd like to see him have some kind of ice armor to help him have some more survivability. Maybe something like absorbing the snow globes to turn them into a projectile reflection buff similar to chromas frost elemental ward. 

Would also be nice if he got a bigger focus on being able to freeze and slow the enemies as right now it feels like he's intended to do that but just doesn't do it very well.

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I feel like frost is only worth it on excavation in missions, outside of that I always feel like he is outclassed. I even did a rework proposal a while ago. Here it is 

 

 

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He was the staple due to being literally the only choice lol. 

He's outdated and a little boring compared to others, but still effective in all levels. I wouldn't mind him getting modernized. 

Unfortunately Vauban is still not a defense frame unless you're talking about infested since Bastille doesn't stop bullets from destroying the objective. 

Edited by (PS4)Ozymandias-13-
Finished further testing with better results.

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16 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

He was the staple due to being literally the only choice lol. 

He's outdated and a little boring compared to others, but still effective in all levels. I wouldn't mind him getting modernized. 

Unfortunately Vauban is still not a defense frame unless you're talking about infested since Bastille doesn't stop bullets from destroying the objective. 

He's only bad at defense if you don't know how to use his skills, lol.

Edited by TheGrimCorsair

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17 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

Unfortunately Vauban is still not a defense frame unless you're talking about infested since Bastille doesn't stop bullets from destroying the objective. 

Nothing can move while vortex is active (which is all the time...). Hes only weakness are nullifiers, since he can't ragdoll them.

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9 minutes ago, TheGrimCorsair said:

He's only bad at defense if you don't know how to use his skills, lol.

So, basically build for max range and spam all of his abilities constantly? 

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9 hours ago, (PS4)Fighter-Inferno_ said:

Personally I'd like to see him have some kind of ice armor

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Icy_Avalanche

  🙂

Mind, some buffs to the amount that Augment gives (e.g. scaling off enemy levels) would be very welcome,
and not least, enemies being killed / allies leaving its range during the lengthy cast is an annoying issue,
just make it count all enemies and apply to all allies touched by the effect radius.

8 hours ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

So, basically build for max range and spam all of his abilities constantly? 

Really just Vortex will do, it's seriously amazing now with the massive range buff it got.

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1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Icy_Avalanche

  🙂

Mind, some buffs to the amount that Augment gives (e.g. scaling off enemy levels) would be very welcome,
and not least, enemies being killed / allies leaving its range during the lengthy cast is an annoying issue,
just make it count all enemies and apply to all allies touched by the effect radius.

Really just Vortex will do, it's seriously amazing now with the massive range buff it got.

I agree with you remark on Icy Avalanche, it should scale.

A "simple" way to do that : armor reduced by Avalanche is transferred to Frost and allies in range.

Since Avalanche removes a percentage of armor, the higher the level of enemies, the higher the amount of Icy Armor build.

Problem, it would suck on enemies without armor (Corpus, Infested) so maybe they could keep the base 60 points per enemy frozen as default and improve with armor

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I personally would love to see Frost get a rework, and I'd also love to see a female variant Warframe.  Basically an offensive version of Frost.  Cause ice powers are sexy enough to have two variants, and still be super unique and fun.

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frost doesnt need a rework. the damage system needs an overhaul. look at what the changes to heat has done across the board. avalanche with enough power str strips 100% armor.

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34 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

frost doesnt need a rework. the damage system needs an overhaul. look at what the changes to heat has done across the board. avalanche with enough power str strips 100% armor.

It requires a sh*t ton of power strength to strip 100% armor, while other abilities can do the same with 130-145% power strength, letting you build for other aspects (range, duration, ...)

But anyway, I love Frost, thinking about offering him my 2nd Umbra forma, I just don't use his 2, tried it with augment but still meh. I only use his 1 for the damage boost (from the augment), and the occasional "freeze that priority target while I'm reloading". 

I know his 2 is cheaper than his 4 (obviously), but when I see a group of enemies coming, instead of slowing them and dealing "some" damage, I prefer to bullet jump in the middle of the group and cast my 4 to freeze (and not just slow), deal some more damage and strip armor. Then it's melee time :)

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12 minutes ago, Tatann said:

It requires a sh*t ton of power strength to strip 100% armor, while other abilities can do the same with 130-145% power strength, letting you build for other aspects (range, duration, ...)

But anyway, I love Frost, thinking about offering him my 2nd Umbra forma, I just don't use his 2, tried it with augment but still meh. I only use his 1 for the damage boost (from the augment), and the occasional "freeze that priority target while I'm reloading". 

I know his 2 is cheaper than his 4 (obviously), but when I see a group of enemies coming, instead of slowing them and dealing "some" damage, I prefer to bullet jump in the middle of the group and cast my 4 to freeze (and not just slow), deal some more damage and strip armor. Then it's melee time 🙂

but op is asking for a rework. even though frost has a viable kit. asking for a rework just cause seems to be the trend as of late.

Edit: having alot of power str also effects his damage and the durability of snow globe.

Edited by EinheriarJudith
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8 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

but op is asking for a rework. even though frost has a viable kit. asking for a rework just cause seems to be the trend as of late.

Edit: having alot of power str also effects his damage and the durability of snow globe.

A useless passive , a useless 1 and a 2 outclassed by his 4. Yep, he needs a rework.

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All really needed is for the slow nerf to be undone (all slows including cold procs used to give condi duration based on the strength of the slow and its duration, which DE nerfed for no reason) and frost needs a better passive/something like a better coolant leak that could also... idk reduce hostile projectile speed while buffing your own.

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Let me explain why I think these skill are useless. 

Passive- a chance to stun an enemy that already did damage , frost has no inate DR to afford tanking hits for no reason and ideally you should be inside a snow globe with means the enemies are so heavily slowed that you should never receive a melee hit.

1. Single target cc , not worth the casting time because I could just fire my gun and kill the enemy . if thr enemy is tought enought I should use my 4 because of armor stripping.

2. Why use a cone of slow with 20 meters when I could use a circle of freeze with 15 meters that also reduces armor. Some edge cases of use but nothing that warranty a skill slot.

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On 2019-12-12 at 12:36 PM, keikogi said:

Let me explain why I thing these skill are useless. 

Passive- a chance to stun an enemy that already did damage , frost has no inate DR to afford tanking hits for no reason and ideally you should be inside a snow globe with means the enemies are so heavily slowed taht you should never receive a melee hit.

1. Single target cc , not worth the casting time because I could just fire my gun and kill the enemy . if thr enemy is tought enought I should use my 4 because of armor strippin.

2. Why use a cone of slow with 20 meters when I could use a circle of freeze with 15 meters that also reduces armor. Some edge cases of use but nothing that warranty a skill slot.

freeze takes a priority target out of play and CC's those around it. it also turns snow globe into a radial damage AOE with CC

ice wave is cheaper than avalanche and has a longer range.

useless? um no. mags passive is bad too. but does it effect her performance? not even in the slightest. i could care less if frames have passives so long as they do not negatively effect the performance of the frame.

Edit: nothing in his kit is useless or non viable. how about use steel fiber? he has more armor than garuda.

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7 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

freeze takes a priority target out of play and CC's those around it. it also turns snow globe into a radial damage AOE with CC

Priority target CC in warframe , such a alien concept to me. Usually feel pointless to CC 1 target for 25 energy when I could cc everything on a 15 meters radius for 100. Also most weapons with a decent status chance will stun lock the enemy.I don't have to worry about range because the globe protects me just right. Also using your 1 to blow up the globe makes the cc worse ( enemies would take an eternity to cross a snow globe , the damage is low for the effort of setting up the globe ) that function is about removing incovineint snow globes than doing any meaninfull damage or cc. Again that combo cost 75 energy for knock down on a 5 meters radius cc when I could use 100 for 15 meters of CC.

 

14 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

ice wave is cheaper than avalanche and has a longer range.

45 degree cones with 20 meters range agaist 15 meters on a 360 degree radius. On frame that can defend himself against all ranged attacks using snow globe. 

 

16 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

useless? um no. mags passive is bad too. but does it effect her performance? not even in the slightest. i could care less if frames have passives so long as they do not negatively effect the performance of the frame

It not just useless , it is not even there. You could remove it for weeks and people would not notice because if you are playing frost you should not receive melee hits and even if you receive one you would assume it was part of the 90% of the time the passive does nothing.

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33 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i could care less if frames have passives so long as they do not negatively effect the performance of the frame.

So, all that matters is that it doesn't actively hurt the game, being useful (and / or fun), nah, that's not important.

... that is one terrible basis for any arguments against change, right there 😛

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1 minute ago, NinjaZeku said:

So, all that matters is that it doesn't actively hurt the game, being useful (and / or fun), nah, that's not important.

... that is one terrible basis for any arguments against change, right there 😛

im not the one acting like his passive makes him unable to be used.

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8 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

frost doesnt need a rework. some tweaks sure a rework nope. with that said im out.

+1.  buff icy avalanche health amount to double what it is allowing for ramping of health and levels to survive lvl 100+ mobs (IE base 120, not 60) and frost has no problems with his kit. 

They can increase the amount of % freeze his passive does or have it create an AOE proc of cold and it will be just fine, his passive is not detrimental and is better than some situational pics (IE loki, oberon etc.  a lot of other passives that need work)

frost is a good frame, he isn't in need of an overhaul.  his 2 is not bad in the slightest and a frost wave impedence build can literally slow down and add active CC damage avoidance in a huge area (also it isnt nullified by orbs... so ya).

Not every old frame is bad.  Frost is actually a well built frame.  his 1 is used situationally but is a very good CC.

Put that effort and energy into frames that actually require work.. the hydroids, the banshees, the zepphyr, the mirage and inaros qol passes etc.

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Just give all his abilities a visual facelift, add some pretty gauges and meters to show the amount of armor or health that Icy Avalanche Augment or Bubbles are having, and he will feel modern enough. No need for mechanical changes. Maybe some number changes, like increasing the percentage on status procs or armor values, but that's about it.

I would still pick him over some of the newer "defense frames" because his bubbles are still more reliable and can be used to protect multiple spots simultaneously. 

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On 2019-12-10 at 7:37 PM, TheGrimCorsair said:

He's only bad at defense if you don't know how to use his skills, lol.

 

On 2019-12-11 at 4:21 AM, NinjaZeku said:

Really just Vortex will do, it's seriously amazing now with the massive range buff it got.

Well, I have to admit I was wrong. Vortex was the only part of his kit I didn't test extensively after the rework (I was always team Bastille since I have epilepsy and Vortex was my arch-nemesis. They've toned the animation down to safe levels since then. 😅)

I used him in Arbitration Defense last night (not with arbitration strength buff) and handled just fine. I did have Vazarin on him which helped out for sure but it wasn't really needed. I didn't even use Overextended on him and had no issues. It was just enough extra CC to fill in the gap when the other cc was at it's limit.

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To me, I feel like Frost's potential is mainly hindered by scaling and slight tweaks

Avalanche is really really good as it is. Gives you hard CC and armor strip in the same button. It's dmg is rather strong as well, you can kill Hydron enemies with 1 cast with a decent amount of str.

I think you just have to tweak the scaling here. The problem is that you need too much str to get the arm or strip to be good, and it forces you into a low duration build, which makes the whole thing kinda redundant.

Make the armor strip scale better, increase base range/make it scale better, and that's fantastic

Snow globe is obviously very useful as it is. The only thing it needs imo is to make the augment baseline

Ice wave and Freeze.... They are... Well... Maybe they could use a buff or some added feature, but I wouldn't completely rework them

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The biggest change I would want is for friendly projectiles to be able to pass through Snow Globe. 

Frost Prime could also use some more stat buffs to fit the trend with newer Primes. A little extra energy would be nice as well as sprint speed to make him feel less sluggish on the ground.

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