I think it's time frost recieved some attention.

[NinjaZeku]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

I have epilepsy and Vortex was my arch-nemesis. They've toned the animation down to safe levels

... are you absolutely sure about that? _{^{### Warning, do whatever you need to not get epilepsy'd or whatever I don't know how that works lol ###}}

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/e9su76/so_vauban_is_actually_kinda_nuts/

😄

4 hours ago, (PS4)SrebX said:

The problem is that you need too much str to get the arm or strip to be good, and it forces you into a low duration build

With how Armor shredding keeps getting added to everything nowadays,
I say just make any ability that removes Armor give a permanent, and stacking, effect.

57 minutes ago, gavkguid said:

A little extra energy would be nice as well as sprint speed

Yes, please.

[(PSN)Fighter-Inferno_]

To clarify here for everyone.  I never stated that frost is a completely useless frame,  simply outdated to irrelevance. 

The 1 I admit while not good the immediate freeze is sometimes useful if I find myself in a really bad situation with a heavy unit but for the most part not really. The slowdown when you blast the ground really doesn't cover much area.

Ice wave however, without the augment feels absolutely worthless and with the augment acts as soft CC on a frame who has access to very hard CC. this and frosts own survivability are the main things that I think (most of us) should be able to agree are the things really holding frost back. Since the ability was made to give frost a way to damage units in opposing globes why not add a damage scaling option for the ability when it's passing through a globe. 

And as stated with frosts survivability the guy just can't take a hit at any kind of challenging level.  Someone said to run steel fiber? When was the last time 700 armor was actually enough to keep a frame alive. I just think a frame who was 1 of the original tank frames should not be one of the easiest frames to kill and im not really sure how people can disagree with this. It would be the biggest thing for frost to allow him to stop being the boy in the bubble and give him some playability outside of stationary defense targets.

4 is decent because it's hard CC and armor strip at the same time, but it's still an ability with not much range,  a ridiculously slow cast time and a huge strength requirement if you want a meaningful armor stripping ability. 

Like I said the guy is outdated and the most clunky frame to use out there. And that's why he should be 1 of the frames to get changes soon. 

I agree that other hydroid and banshee could do with a few tweaks themselves but neither of them are stuck having to relegate the entirety of their gameplay into a tiny bubble

[(PSN)SrebX]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Fighter-Inferno_ said:

I never stated that frost is a completely useless frame,  simply outdated to irrelevance. 

Yea... Sorry but that doesn't provide clarity to me :3

I dont feel like he's irrelevant, but I think he just needs a bit of tweaking to make his buildcrafting not 1 dimensional  

[Aldain]

Were I to judge the state of Frost I'd say he's at a 7.5/10.

Perfectly servicable and functional with no massive drawbacks, but some of his abilities leave something to be desired.

Mostly his 1 and 2, his one being a "dumb fire" projectile that is roughly on the same level of usefulness as Ember's 1 and Ice Wave, which is often cited for it's augment more than the ability itself. His 3 is the definitive "Defensive" ability which has no issues as it stands and Avalanche is now better than ever since frozen enemies can have status applied to them.

His passive on the other hand is one of the worst in the game, a chance to freeze a melee attacker is so bad that he might as well not have a passive in the first place.

I wouldn't know what to do with his 1 and 2 to make them better, but literally anything is better than his current passive.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Aldain

[(PSN)Fighter-Inferno_]

I actually had a thought today that I think might actually be the best way to help what I feel are his biggest problems.  

Change his passive to give him an ice cloak that reflects projectiles after killing a unit that has a cold proc or is frozen

His 1 and 2 now serve as light CC and give him an easy way to access his survivability 

Edited December 14, 2019 by (PS4)Fighter-Inferno_

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

He could be tweaked.  he doesn't need a rework.  Also lol about vauban/gara replacing him.  The fact that he can place multiple globes and globes block fire means globe isn't immediately dumpstered by those two's area protection abilities.

[Hyohakusha]

To quote myself from a minute ago in another thread...

Actually Frost did just get an indirect buff, in that we can proc status through enemies frozen with his 4. The main problem people run into is just not using him properly. Cover long reloads with his 1, use his 2 as a long range radar that slows enemies down, don't even bother with his 3 unless you're running mobile defense or you need to clear out a chunk of enemies from a downed ally. His 3 actually works better as a weapon for smashing enemies into walls, his 4 is his bread and butter move for defense. Build Range > Efficiency > Duration > Strength. Shut the whole room down with his 4 and just kill everything. Scythes and both Two Handed Nikana's work great with heavy builds for him; they proc slash through enemies frozen with his 4 in a wide arc, which in turn makes them explode and refresh the freeze time on anything around him.

He's fine. He's my most used frame by a rather large margin.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

On 2019-12-10 at 4:12 PM, (PS4)Fighter-Inferno_ said:

For a long time frost had been considered a staple in defense missions because of how consistently reliable snow globe Is. But due to the growing strength of other frames that do similar things. Gara, limbo now vauban. Even to an extent volt. Frost has found himself with no real place in warframe, from being far too slow for open world content to having no real damage potential to make him good in endurance runs or even just high level quick missions like extermination and sabotage. 

Frost is now in a position where he's just never the right choice and that makes me pretty sad.  It would be good if perhaps he's the next frame to get an update,  since if I recall the last time he was changed was him recieving the ability to shatter his globes and them being changed to HP rather than duration based.

Personally I'd like to see him have some kind of ice armor to help him have some more survivability. Maybe something like absorbing the snow globes to turn them into a projectile reflection buff similar to chromas frost elemental ward. 

Would also be nice if he got a bigger focus on being able to freeze and slow the enemies as right now it feels like he's intended to do that but just doesn't do it very well.

Frost has has a balanced kit. If he got reworked he would likely end up getting nerfed like bad math chroma. His kit does take a lot of study to get down to the details.

[Doraz_]

to fix icy avalanche do one or more of these

 

(1)

icy avalanche grants immunity for 3 seconds when depleted to allow frost to recast it (like nehza)

 

(2)

icy avalanche stacks infinitely, currently if you recast it and the value is lower than the current one, the value stays the same

 

(3)

60 damage is multiplied by a percentage of enemy maximum health (this would be CRAZY good and so fun to play with). Let it work with ANY ENEMY, bosses included, so this augment doesn't become useless against them.

 

I don't thin frost needs a rework, he works, far more than other frames ... but a female frost ... oh yeah plz gib 😄

 

[Thrymm]

I'd agree that Frost shows his age sometimes, but there is no way I'd call him outdated to irrelevance, not even close.  Frost is one of the most versatile frames in the game, and can be built to handle anything from being a pseudo tank to a pseudo caster, or something in between.

Some game mechanics make frost show his age, mostly related to his survivability.  Shield mechanics having fallen into such a state of neglect as the game has progressed has hindered Frost a great deal, forcing his survivability to lean heavily on armor, health and gimmicks.  There was a time when Frosts potential health, armor and shielding was equal to the highest the game had to offer.  Consider what his survivability would be today if he equaled the highest of all three--he'd be downright unstoppable.  However, time has not increased these health or shield numbers for Frost, which means he leans heavily on armor boosts, rolling guard, and adaptation to make himself stay tough.  This leaves him more vulnerable to spike damage than he's been in the past, but once these defenses are up and rolling Frost can still hang with the best of them.

Snow Globe has shown some age in its functionality as well, mostly because enemy damage has become extremely concentrated in the specialist units.  High level Napalms or Heavy Gunners or Hyekka Masters(especially these) will make extremely short work of a snow globe that didn't take their concentrated fire during its invincibility period because the lancers and whatnot that hit it during this phase don't amount to enough damage to allow it to be as useful for defending against the heavy as it used to be.  The augment can make it extremely useful for non-typical duties because it magnifies the CC potential a great deal, though I usually don't use it.

I disagree about it needing mobility, though.  Part of excelling with Frost is using its kit for what it is, and the Snow Globe does a whole lot more than just envelop defense objectives.  It's an extremely effective area denial snare, and can still be thrown at a moments notice to make cover when moving around.  Being able to blow it up with a frost bolt also makes it a potent CC bomb when you need to get rid of it.

His #1 is an effective skill.  Augmented, it's a frost damage boost(no, I don't generally run it, point is the option there).  It has a small ae slow, and a single target stun.  More importantly, it's a one handed ability so you can use it while reloading, and it goes off quickly to be blasted point blank while using melee.  It's also a key factor in using snow globe for non-defense objective duties.

His #2 is exceptional.  If you've reason to stay where you are, rather than jumping into the middle of a group of enemies, this is a strong snare and area denial tool.  The augment strengthens this function, and the total slow time is long enough to eliminate all but the toughest groups of enemies.  I usually run with the augment because I find the area slow is much more effective if it need not directly hit the enemies in order to function.

Lastly, Avalanche works because of the full CC and armor strip, not the damage.  This makes it scale into any level enemy, so long as making them completely stop and take more damage is useful(read: all of them.  It's useful on all of them).  I do think the augment is somewhat outdated, however, in that it gives a set number of absorb points per enemy hit and that number is not high enough to be useful on high level opponents(same problem normal shields have).  Moving this to a percentage would make the augment a must equip survivability item.

His passive is useless.  I play Frost in the neighborhood of an hour or two every day and if I missed a patch note that notified me of it, I wouldn't even realize it was gone for weeks if it where to disappear and only realize it even exists on the rare occasion I see a butcher or charger statue and realize I didn't actively make it.  I'd appreciate something useful.

All of his CC benefits greatly from duration increases, and unless your situation warrants avoiding it(and it does sometimes, for snow globe reasons), range magnifies Ice Wave and Avalanche to fantastic levels.  Given Avalanches ability to become extremely powerful with power strength, range, and duration, Frost can be a strong casting frame.  Conversely, these mod slots can be dedicated to survivability and he can be a tough combatant with continued strong CC potential.

A little modernizing....maybe.  But I disagree that he needs a full blown rework, the basis for what he does is still effective.

[Frendh]

On 2019-12-11 at 6:22 PM, Klaleara said:

I personally would love to see Frost get a rework, and I'd also love to see a female variant Warframe.  Basically an offensive version of Frost.  Cause ice powers are sexy enough to have two variants, and still be super unique and fun.

Female offensive Warframe, great idea. Giving warframe an ice queen is a cool idea. But non of that pansy talk about survivability. A proper glass cannon. Everyone and his brother whining about warframes not being able to tank like inaros.

 

I think frost is fine as he is. I have like 33% playtime with him or so. If he is made better I am not going to complain, but I do think putting dev time into improving Frost over doing other things is a wasteful use of time.

On 2019-12-12 at 12:24 PM, EinheriarJudith said:

frost doesnt need a rework. the damage system needs an overhaul. look at what the changes to heat has done across the board. avalanche with enough power str strips 100% armor.

Problem with the strip is that it is temporary (last time I used it). Only lasts as long as they are frozen. And the enemy is immune to status procs for the duration of the freeze. If this is no longer the case, then sweet.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Frendh

[BloodyEy3]

pretty sure every elemental themed (volt, emba,frost,) and many others where its a dmg spell as well have the problem of the 1 being very weak in later content and mainly getting usefull (added weapon dmg) for later game content through augment and its completly fine. I think its because when you start playing and still have to get through starting quest and missions, mainly go solo instead of lvling on senda defense, without having all the juicy mods but only the basics not even maxed out, they are quite usefull for the content they are ment for. You dont have erngize dash, arcane energy or ernergy pads and reling on energy siphon to top u off seems wishful. So i think its perfectly fine to have an ability thats usefull/useable for that content and situations.

the scaling armor gain from enemies should atbest be sth like after lvl x for every enemy lvl add x base armor, since enemie have rediclious armor scaling in later lvls so making it a % seems "too strong" in that regard.

i dont know if thats the case already (i think u can destroy 3 with 1) but they should add that when its destroyed by enemy fire it should explode radial freezing enemies for 2x range of snow globe and dealing x amount of absorbed dmg (multiplied by ability strength) --> not tooo usefull but kinda neat giving a bit of time to recast snowglobe while adding some dmg

The added sprint speed and energy would be somewhat need (energy more then sprint speed) as he is a somewhat a bulkie frame and so the speed parts is somewhat weird

[(PSN)Spider_Enigma]

On 2019-12-13 at 2:24 PM, gavkguid said:

The biggest change I would want is for friendly projectiles to be able to pass through Snow Globe. 

Frost Prime could also use some more stat buffs to fit the trend with newer Primes. A little extra energy would be nice as well as sprint speed to make him feel less sluggish on the ground.

they dont pass in, but they pass out....

[selig_fay]

19 минут назад, BloodyEy3 сказал:

pretty sure every elemental themed (volt, emba,frost,) and many others where its a dmg spell as well have the problem of the 1 being very weak in later content and mainly getting usefull (added weapon dmg) for later game content through augment and its completly fine. I think its because when you start playing and still have to get through starting quest and missions, mainly go solo instead of lvling on senda defense, without having all the juicy mods but only the basics not even maxed out, they are quite usefull for the content they are ment for. You dont have erngize dash, arcane energy or ernergy pads and reling on energy siphon to top u off seems wishful. So i think its perfectly fine to have an ability thats usefull/useable for that content and situations.

If we talk about frost, then you can apply 1 ability, freezing 1 enemy and spending 25 energy. Or, or, or, you can apply the 4 ability, freezing all enemies around you and spending 100 energy. This has very little benefit. Maybe you could leave the current strength of the first ability, but then let it spend 5 energy and does not interrupt the shooting and reloading of weapons, in this case it will be a useful ability. But now it's just a thing for breaking the dome and nothing more.

[BloodyEy3]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb zhellon:

If we talk about frost, then you can apply 1 ability, freezing 1 enemy and spending 25 energy. Or, or, or, you can apply the 4 ability, freezing all enemies around you and spending 100 energy. This has very little benefit. Maybe you could leave the current strength of the first ability, but then let it spend 5 energy and does not interrupt the shooting and reloading of weapons, in this case it will be a useful ability. But now it's just a thing for breaking the dome and nothing more.

so whats does ember 1 do ? or volt 1 ? and compar it to their respective 4 see a trend ?

[selig_fay]

Только что, BloodyEy3 сказал:

so whats does ember 1 do ? or volt 1 ? and compar it to their respective 4 see a trend ?

Volt can electrify his shield with his 1 ability and this is where the ability functions end. Weak CC, weak damage, high cost of the ability for a small profit. You use 4 ability, which costs only 4 times more than 1 ability.

Ember. Well, at least this thing does damage. Has the mechanics of combo, but again, energy. But, unlike frost and volt, meme build on fireball is very funny. 

 

 

[Teridax68]

I think Frost is one of those examples of why one should never expect a frame to be good simply because one ability in their kit is good, as if that ability gets surpassed, the frame loses purpose. In his case, the rest of his kit was never amazing (though it's not awful either), but on top of that power creep has left him behind. It's not just that Gara's 4 is a better Snow Globe than Snow Globe ever was, it's also that Limbo's Cataclysm is an even more extreme version: whereas Snow Globe offers a health buffer to objectives, Cataclysm makes those objectives literally untouchable from the outside. Whereas Snow Globe can be given a chance to freeze enemies, Cataclysm combined with Stasis can stun everyone inside. Whereas Snow Globe disappears after taking enough hits, Cataclysm has no health limit at all. Thus, I don't think the issue lies solely with Frost, because the fault also lies with some other frames who are completely out of whack, Limbo in particular needing another redesign imo, precisely because of how his kit is essentially impossible to balance.

With that said, though, I do think Frost has the opportunity to distinguish himself nonetheless, and Snow Globe in particular could use a lot of improvements: for one, it should probably stop blocking ally shots, because that's an old balancing measure against its defensive power that never worked out well, as one should never deliberately seek to inconvenience a player's teammates. On top of that, though, it always puzzled me why enemy eximus units were able to move their bubble around, and Frost wasn't: as such, one could evolve Snow Globe by making it a protective bubble centered around Frost, instead of making it the stationary drop it currently is that has to compete with so many superior abilities now.

An example of a Frost rework with that in mind, plus a larger intent to implement more crowd control and survivability:

• Passive - Blizzard: Frost's shields are permanently projected outwards as a globe of ice centered around himself, that moves with him, and blocks enemy projectiles, beams, bullets, and status effects. Damage to the globe damages Frost's shields, and when his shields break, so does the globe. The globe regenerates with Frost's shields, has innate damage reduction based on his armor, and enemies inside the globe are applied Cold status and increasingly slowed, up until they freeze.
• 1 - Freeze: Frost launches a spear of ice that freezes the first enemy hit and reduces their armor, doing the same to all enemies in a radius around the main target.
  • Augment - Freeze Force: Unchanged.
• 2 - Ice Wave: Frost instantly coats a large area in front of him in ice, which affects all enemies on it with Cold status. Frost and his allies are immune to knockdowns, staggers, and slows while standing on the ice.
  • Augment - Ice Floes: Enemies killed while on icy ground give Frost and allies standing on it shields.
• 3 - Snow Sculpture: Frost creates an ice statue of himself at the target location with his current health and shields, that also projects his Blizzard aura. This ice statue has its health and shields restored whenever the same happens to Frost, and Frost can hold the ability at any time to instantly switch positions with his ice statue.
  • Augment - Snow Sigil: Targeting an ally with Snow Sculpture creates a Blizzard aura around them instead, based off of Frost's shields, health, and armor. Holding the ability teleports Frost to the ally.
• 4 - Avalanche: Frost deals massive Cold damage to visible enemies affected by Cold status, scaling with level. This damage is significantly increased against frozen enemies.
  • Augment - Shattering Avalanche: Enemies killed by Avalanche shatter into pieces, dealing a portion of the damage they received to nearby enemies and inflicting upon them all of the status effects and debuffs they were afflicted with on death.

Thoughts?

[keikogi]

29 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Passive - Blizzard: Frost's shields are permanently projected outwards as a globe of ice centered around himself, that moves with him, and blocks enemy projectiles, beams, bullets, and status effects. Damage to the globe damages Frost's shields, and when his shields break, so does the globe. The globe regenerates with Frost's shields, has innate damage reduction based on his armor, and enemies inside the globe are applied Cold status and increasingly slowed, up until they freeze.

Bold passive , but I think in this day amd age would not be broken.

29 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

1 - Freeze: Frost launches a spear of ice that freezes the first enemy hit and reduces their armor, doing the same to all enemies in a radius around the main target.

Needs a slitly bigger radius but the desing itself is fine.

29 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

2 - Ice Wave: Frost instantly coats a large area in front of him in ice, which affects all enemies on it with Cold status. Frost and his allies are immune to knockdowns, staggers, and slows while standing on the ice.

Would go for moviment speed and reduced friction instead. It Also should have the impedance effect by delfault.

29 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

- Snow Sculpture: Frost creates an ice statue of himself at the target location with his current health and shields, that also projects his Blizzard aura. This ice statue has its health and shields restored whenever the same happens to Frost, and Frost can hold the ability at any time to instantly switch positions with his ice statue.

• Augment - Snow Sigil: Targeting an ally with Snow Sculpture creates a Blizzard aura around them instead, based off of Frost's shields, health, and armor. Holding the ability teleports Frost to the ally.

This should have the current invunerability phase that the current snow globe has, otherwise it is worse than the current version.

I love the idea of frost building a snow man , quite amusing.

29 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

4 - Avalanche: Frost deals massive Cold damage to visible enemies affected by Cold status, scaling with level. This damage is significantly increased against frozen enemies.

Cold damage kinda sucks so it will be hard for this skill to work properly , also the requiriment of previous cold proc makes ot way worse than it needs to be. Especially given this is a rework and people dont want to loose anything good about the current frost. 

Had my own take on a frost rework 

Some ideas are similar like requiring cold procs as set up for a strong skill. Mobile snow globe. Skills that actually scale and do damage. Also like you my focus was to give frost more stuff to do , not to expecilize him even further.

Edited February 10, 2020 by keikogi

[Teridax68]

19 minutes ago, keikogi said:

Bold passive , but I think in this day amd age would not be broken.

Thank you! In general I think there's this assumption that passives should not do too much, which I completely disagree with, as many iconic frames have been defined by highly visible passives, e.g. Nidus and Garuda.

Quote

Needs a slitly bigger radius but the desing itself is fine.

I intentionally did not mention stats because that I think can be altered easily in practice. The idea is that the base radius should be big enough to be able to freeze squads of enemies fairly easily, without necessarily covering the whole map.

Quote

Would go for moviment speed and reduced friction instead. It Also should have the impedance effect by delfault.

That's fair enough, and reduced friction could potentially be a fun add-on, though reduced friction can also come off as an inconvenience. By contrast, I wanted to give Frost some more protective utility, and so was leaning more towards CC immunity, shield/health regen, armor, and so on. My ability as described above also does have Ice Wave Impedance by default, as its core purpose is to lay down a persistent sheet of ice.

Quote

This should have the current invunerability phase that the current snow globe has, otherwise it is worse than the current version.

I love the idea of frost building a snow man , quite amusing.

Thank you! And the suggestion sounds fine by me, though ultimately I do think the version as I'm proposing it also has additional benefits, namely the teleport and regeneration without need for spam. I don't think the globe should be invincible either, nor should any other sort of defensive effect offer complete or near-complete invulnerability, a key problem with Limbo's Cataclysm.

Quote

Cold damage kinda sucks so it will be hard for this skill to work properly , also the requiriment of previous cold proc makes ot way worse than it needs to be. Especially given this is a rework and people dont want to loose anything good about the current frost.

I think it's worth challenging the above on two fronts: first, from a gameplay perspective, I think it is worth removing certain mechanics when those mechanics are detrimental to gameplay: in this particular case, pressing a button for radial damage is a classic case of old ability design that can't be allowed to be made stronger, because otherwise the frame becomes press-4-to-win when they can reliably just spam a single button to murder everyone around them. By contrast, making this a shatter against enemies affected by cold immediately gives the ability a gameplay mechanic, in that Frost gets to set up enemies with CC before shattering them with Avalanche.

Secondly, I don't think the damage type is all that relevant, because ultimately the amount of damage can be adjusted at will. Additionally, because the damage would be made to scale with level, it could always be relevant, unlike the current version. Cold is also not that bad at all as a damage types: it deals bonus damage to shields, innately ignores a portion of armor, and is only weak to certain Infested health types. True damage could work as a replacement, I guess, though I feel DE wants to restrict access to that damage type outside of Slash proc abuse.

Quote

Had my own take on a frost rework 

Some ideas are similar like requiring cold procs as set up for a strong skill. Mobile snow globe. Skills that actually scale and do damage. Also like you my focus was to give frost more stuff to do , not to expecilize him even further.

Indeed, I saw that rework and posted one of the first bits of feedback on that thread. My assessment of it is that the proposals would move Frost forward, but more could still be done to improve him. Our directions are quite similar, however, in that we both want to make him more survivable and better at spreading round crowd control.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Teridax68

[keikogi]

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

That's fair enough, and reduced friction could potentially be a fun add-on, though reduced friction can also come off as an inconvenience. By contrast, I wanted to give Frost some more protective utility, and so was leaning more towards CC immunity, shield/health regen, armor, and so on. My ability as described above also does have Ice Wave Impedance by default, as its core purpose is to lay down a persistent sheet of ice.

I went for movespeed and friction reduction because I like when thinks works fluff wise.

Also Ive lenarned ( after playing gaus with rush and amalgan serration ) the enought moviment speed is a really good form of survivability.

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Thank you! And the suggestion sounds fine by me, though ultimately I do think the version as I'm proposing it also has additional benefits, namely the teleport and regeneration without need for spam. I don't think the globe should be invincible either, nor should any other sort of defensive effect offer complete or near-complete invulnerability, a key problem with Limbo's Cataclysm.

It would be good for thr game if there was such a thing as enought damage. I just tend to work on the current world of Infinity x Infinity.

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

think it's worth challenging the above on two fronts: first, from a gameplay perspective, I think it is worth removing certain mechanics when those mechanics are detrimental to gameplay: in this particular case, pressing a button for radial damage is a classic case of old ability design that can't be allowed to be made stronger, because otherwise the frame becomes press-4-to-win when they can reliably just spam a single button to murder everyone around them. By contrast, making this a shatter against enemies affected by cold immediately gives the ability a gameplay mechanic, in that Frost gets to set up enemies with CC before shattering them with Avalanche.

I usually use that philosophy on my fan creations , the skills are quite strong but more often than not they are "slow " either due to unique resource requirement , condition requirement or the skill itself has trade backs.

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Secondly, I don't think the damage type is all that relevant, because ultimately the amount of damage can be adjusted at will. Additionally, because the damage would be made to scale with level, it could always be relevant, unlike the current version. Cold is also not that bad at all as a damage types: it deals bonus damage to shields, innately ignores a portion of armor, and is only weak to certain Infested health types. True damage could work as a replacement, I guess, though I feel DE wants to restrict access to that damage type outside of Slash proc abuse.

Fine.

39 minutes ago, Teridax68 said:

Thank you! In general I think there's this assumption that passives should not do too much, which I completely disagree with, as many iconic frames have been defined by highly visible passives, e.g. Nidus and Garuda.

I am quite open to new passives the crazies one I ever creted was.

You can literally copy someone build but you dont get admin priveleges ( you cant choose when you cast yours skills , you are forced to cast the skill when your ally cast the original one)

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by keikogi

[BloodyEy3]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Teridax68:

Thank you! And the suggestion sounds fine by me, though ultimately I do think the version as I'm proposing it also has additional benefits, namely the teleport and regeneration without need for spam. I don't think the globe should be invincible either, nor should any other sort of defensive effect offer complete or near-complete invulnerability, a key problem with Limbo's Cataclysm.

Sarny molt+ loki decoy? personally not a fan, personally would like sth that stays more like it is now. maybe freezes his passive solid/ in place, can be hold to increase range and health of it. if his 1 (the icelance thing) is cast inside it lances out icespikes that deal cold dmg and have garantued impact + Puncture proc (just status effect (maybe switch garantueed status proc with cold + chance for impact/puncture)

 

and to limbo... cataclysm has a duration - slowglobe doesnt, only 1 instance of cataclysm can be put down - multiple snow globes; you can shoot from inside snowglobe and hit enemies outside - Limbo you cant,  globe scales with armorr, giving globe and frost decent survivablity - limbo surviablity scales mainly of range duration (not that useable in corpus mission -> reason why gara or frost are prefered on those)

It all has benefits and downsides, as a pure destinctive defensive tool it is indeed stronger because of the riftplane.

 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Teridax68:

Passive - Blizzard: Frost's shields are permanently projected outwards as a globe of ice centered around himself, that moves with him, and blocks enemy projectiles, beams, bullets, and status effects. Damage to the globe damages Frost's shields, and when his shields break, so does the globe. The globe regenerates with Frost's shields, has innate damage reduction based on his armor, and enemies inside the globe are applied Cold status and increasingly slowed, up until they freeze.

Honestly too much for a passive i feel like. if it doesnt scale with armor its useless, if it scales with armor its probably too strong (shield restore is a thing, arcane aegies, barrier, augur and so on) since it blocks the projectile its would kinda be linke shield gating which with the previous listed stuff is just not implementable, so a more reasonable attempt would be a 1 time passive that uppon breaking needs x seconds of not taking dmg before rebuilding/replenishing it. ---> on this note the 3 could instantly refresh the globe and add x dmg reduction + chance to freeze enemies on contact (a bit like volt 2 augment), while keeping the above stated charging ability

2nd note to this, if passive doesnt scale with range mode (which would be reasonable as most passive dont scale with mods and it already scales with armor) the freezing effect is only relevant for melee enemies/ useing melee to attack unless it has a big base ratio.

3rd. allies not being able to shoot throught it would be even more annyoing, even more so if u go in close and personal as u would shield enemies from ur allies fire.

Edited February 10, 2020 by BloodyEy3
managed to hit edit this time :)

[BloodyEy3]

how do i delete accidental copied comments?'

Edited February 10, 2020 by BloodyEy3

[Teridax68]

2 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

Sarny molt+ loki decoy? personally not a fan, personally would like sth that stays more like it is now. maybe freezes his passive solid/ in place, can be hold to increase range and health of it. if his 1 (the icelance thing) is cast inside it lances out icespikes that deal cold dmg and have garantued impact + Puncture proc (just status effect (maybe switch garantueed status proc with cold + chance for impact/puncture)

The decoy itself does nothing except project a snow globe, so freezing one's own snow globe in place would objectively just provide fewer options. I also deliberately did not go for damage on the 1 because that's the function of the 4, and I'd rather not have them do similar things, as that's what is making Freeze redundant at the moment.

2 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

and to limbo... cataclysm has a duration - slowglobe doesnt, only 1 instance of cataclysm can be put down - multiple snow globes; you can shoot from inside snowglobe and hit enemies outside - Limbo you cant,  globe scales with armorr, giving globe and frost decent survivablity - limbo surviablity scales mainly of range duration (not that useable in corpus mission -> reason why gara or frost are prefered on those)

It all has benefits and downsides, as a pure destinctive defensive tool it is indeed stronger because of the riftplane.

Which makes it the better option automatically, as the only mission type that requires defending more than a single static objective at a time is Excavation, and that's only if someone messed up and triggered a second excavator. It also does not matter what Snow Globe scales with when Cataclysm has literally infinite durability. It is also worth mentioning that Cataclysm is far better at providing protection than Snow Globe due to how its Rift mechanic works: with Snow Globe, any part of an object that protrudes from it can get hit, and therefore damaged, whereas with Cataclysm, only the center of an object needs to be in the Rift for the same to be counted for the entire object. Thus, a minimum-range, maximum-duration Limbo will be able to protect defense objectives far better than Frost, including against Nullifiers thanks to the ability to work fine at lesser ranges.

2 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

Honestly too much for a passive i feel like. if it doesnt scale with armor its useless, if it scales with armor its probably too strong (shield restore is a thing, arcane aegies, barrier, augur and so on)

So putting aside that I did in fact specify it scales with armor, I fail to see why armor scaling would be a problem, given that Hildryn has a much larger shield pool and is fine. In the end, scaling simply means that modding for certain stats will contribute positively to your effect; it does not automatically mean your thing is multiplied to tremendous degrees.

2 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

since it blocks the projectile its would kinda be linke shield gating which with the previous listed stuff is just not implementable,

Shield gating has strictly nothing to do with projectile blocking.

2 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

so a more reasonable attempt would be a 1 time passive that uppon breaking needs x seconds of not taking dmg before rebuilding/replenishing it.

That is how the shield regeneration delay works.

2 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

---> on this note the 3 could instantly refresh the globe and add x dmg reduction + chance to freeze enemies on contact (a bit like volt 2 augment), while keeping the above stated charging ability

I'm not sure how this would balance the ability.

2 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

2nd note to this, if passive doesnt scale with range mode (which would be reasonable as most passive dont scale with mods and it already scales with armor) the freezing effect is only relevant for melee enemies/ useing melee to attack unless it has a big base ratio.

That I think is fine, particularly given that this effect is a passive, and thus need not be immensely effective at everything, and would still be better at melee than the current passive, which works exclusively by getting hit with melee attacks.

2 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

3rd. allies not being able to shoot throught it would be even more annyoing, even more so if u go in close and personal as u would shield enemies from ur allies fire.

I never said that it would prevent allies shooting through the globe, and I would in fact not want this to be the case, as I stated very clearly in a paragraph above that I want to remove the ally shot blocking from even the current Snow Globe.

[keikogi]

3 hours ago, Teridax68 said:

Shield gating has strictly nothing to do with projectile blocking.

He is kinda right because DE uses shield gating as synonym of stopping damage overflow. Proper shield gate have invunerability phases , stopping damage overflow just does not allow the shot that dowed you shield to do any damage to your health. Your passive would stop damage overflow. But this is a weird vocabulary controversy that lays on DE feet. 

Kinda like DE uses synergy as label for stuff that is clearly a combo bonus.

5 hours ago, BloodyEy3 said:

Honestly too much for a passive i feel like. if it doesnt scale with armor its useless, if it scales with armor its probably too strong (shield restore is a thing, arcane aegies, barrier, augur and so on) since it blocks the projectile its would kinda be linke shield gating which with the previous listed stuff is just not implementable, so a more reasonable attempt would be a 1 time passive that uppon breaking needs x seconds of not taking dmg before rebuilding/replenishing it. ---> on this note the 3 could instantly refresh the globe and add x dmg reduction + chance to freeze enemies on contact (a bit like volt 2 augment), while keeping the above stated charging ability

I don't quitte understand why people have such a boner for armor. EHP is EHP. If a frame had 20 K shields ( the type of of EHP Inaros can easily get ) shields would be good. The problem is DE seems afraid of big numbers on the player durabily so most of the player durability is loaded into hidden stats (DR and armor ) and not on clearly displayed numbers ( health and shields ). It is quite absurd that build with 3 k ( health and shields combined ) can reach 200 k EHP.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by keikogi

[Teridax68]

29 minutes ago, keikogi said:

He is kinda right because DE uses shield gating as synonym of stopping damage overflow. Proper shield gate have invunerability phases , stopping damage overflow just does not allow the shot that dowed you shield to do any damage to your health. Your passive would stop damage overflow. But this is a weird vocabulary controversy that lays on DE feet. 

Kinda like DE uses synergy as label for stuff that is clearly a combo bonus.

I'm not certain about this, as the only practical usage of shield gating as a mechanic and a term has so far been for Hildryn, and even when discussing shield gating before as a means of stopping damage overflow, that itself had no relation to projectiles specifically. I guess you could say that a bubble could stop damage overflow -- assuming one doesn't specially code damage carry-over -- but then the simple fact that a bubble shield would naturally do this I think raises doubts as to why the effect would be "just not implementable".