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BlachWolf

Let’s talk about ash

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Ash is a good frame, I should know since I’ve been using him for more than 500h. I love the fact that he’s an extremely active frame and can dish out some dirty dmg, but even then his kit is still open for improvement. That said, my aim is not to increase his power by a whole lot, just give some of his abilities more purpose and in general sharing some of my thoughts on him.

Here are the issues I can point out:

  • Shuriken: Alone this ability is really nothing special, it’s a straight up dual target damage ability with decent dmg. It can kill thanks to its forced slash, but in general its lack of AOE thus it fall behind guns and his 4. The augment while great, suffers from the AOE issue, which means you have to spam the ability to make full use of it. Even with the augment on, while doing 2h runs I never really used the ability that much.
  • Teleport: Alone this ability was always crap, its ok mobility but most of the time bullet jumping will get you there just as fast. The augment on the other hand thanks to the CL nerf was completely murdered, since the main use case was not the dmg buff but the QoL of not having to press melee after teleporting.
  • Blade Storm: In its current incarnation it’s fine. I don’t have a problem with its speed, but even I a must admit that its targeting system isn’t the best. Also while the augment is not bad, in my opinion it could have another effect. The combo building part could then be moved to another ability like for example shuriken.

That said, here is how I would tweak ash:

Shuriken (tweaks)

Spoiler

 

Tweaks:

  • Allow bleed tics to count towards combo counter.
  • Give shuriken a 20% chance per combo counter to spawn another shuriken, thus leading to a max of 4 shuriken and 20% chance of a fifth to be spawned. Essentially multishot for shuriken.
  • Force shuriken to target different enemies if they’re with in range.

Note: This tweaks will give shuriken the purpose of feeding his 4, while also giving it the much needed AOE via the addition of 3 more shuriken’s.

 

Teleport (tweaks)

Spoiler

 

Tweaks:

  • Allow us to freely teleport like in conclave, at half the range (which would translate to 30m).
  • Make instant finishers an innate functionality of the ability.
  • Make the 200% damage bonus of the augment into a passive and instead give it the ability to perform mercies on enemies below a certain hp threshold like for example 20% hp. This could scale with strength.
  • Make bodies of successful finisher and mercy kills while invisible disintegrate.

Note: With this changes Teleport will now be an excellent movement ability, while also retaining its previous task. The augment changes will give him some sustain and utility via the mercy mechanic, which goes well with his kit and theme. Finally the disintegration on finisher will give him pretty good stealth path, which again goes well with his theme. That said, I wanted to remove the blade storm synergy, but decided not to, since it still provides some survivability if used correctly while also not really being that annoying.

 

Blade Storm (tweaks)

Spoiler

 

Tweaks:

  • Introduce a reticle around the size of the new melee reticle, which will allow ash to mark multiple enemy units within range. Basically a smaller version of mesas reticle when in peace maker.
  • Change the way marks work. Instead of having to mark an enemy up to three times, the clones will now perform up to three attack waves on the enemy, if some units survived the previous ones. The first attack will drain your standard 12 energy per target. If any market enemies survived the first wave, the second wave begins but at 50% the original cost. If any enemies still remain, the last wave will begin and consume 25% of the original cost per market targets left.
  • Finally cap the energy cost of blade storm to 10 marks, like embers new 4. This means that ash will consume at max 105 energy while invisible and 210 when not, if all three waves hit 10 or more enemies.
  • Change the augment to instead offer 80+ combo hit points capacity, essentially allowing ash to reach a combo counter of 16x. The combo duration passive remains the same. Does not scale with strength.

Note: The main issue with bladestorm is its targeting system, it basically forces the player to shake their reticle in order to add multiple marks on an enemy. The new system will change that, but still have us aiming at the enemy. The second problem with blade storm is its energy drain when using multiple marks, this can be somewhat devastating if one happens to mark to many enemies at once. By capping it we essentially mitigate that issue, that said this is a minor problem. The change to his augment will only provide about 27% more dmg, but you have to keep in mind that this will also affect melee and his new shuriken ability, thus having a wider effect.

 


 

That said while I would like all of his abilities to be tweaked, the only ability that really needs reworking in his kit right now is his teleport and maybe shuriken. Smoke bomb and blade storm could stay as is, since they’re still pretty powerful abilities.

In general I hope that ash gets some small touch ups, in order to make his kit a bit more interesting.

 

 

Edited by BlachWolf
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Some of your ideas are interesting and similar to mine, how about we compare ideas. Here is what I would to do improve Ash;

 

·       All abilities can be cast while on a zipline.

 

1st Ability:

·       If enemy is killed in one hit it is considered as a stealth kill.

·       Holding the ability will make both shurikens target the enemy you`re aiming at dealing double slash damage and adds critical damage based on what crit damage mods you have equipped on your melee weapon, also headshots will do more damage.

·       The more health the enemy loses, the slower the enemy moves when bleeding out.

·       When the enemy stops bleeding, it will go back to its normal movement speed.

·       It has a combo window on 1 second. The more you use the ability, the more damage it does, the less energy it takes.

·       The built-up damage multi from spamming it can affect the held version of shuriken.

 

2nd Ability:

·       Increase the cast stun duration to 4 sec.

·       The smoke left behind will last for 10 seconds.

·       The smoke has a 5m radius which can be increased by range mods.

·       Enemies that enter the smoke will have a 6 sec stun duration and are 40% more susceptible to damage.

·       All stun durations cannot be increased by duration mods.

·       Smoke cloud`s radius can be increased by range mods.

·       The stun and the smoke damage buff will also work on bosses.

·       When Ash is invisible, the apparitions from bs are also invisible.

 

3rd Ability:

·       Holding the ability will show an indicator of where he can teleport to from the radical but the range is hafted.

·       Teleporting to a wall will make ash hang to the wall for 3 seconds.

·       Not only it can teleport to anything with a health bar, it can also teleport to anything that can be scanned.

·       You can teleport through windows if there are allies, npcs, enemies or objects with a health bar or is scannable objects on the other side of it.

·       You are able to teleport to enemies that are in the air.

·       After teleporting in the air, preforming melee attacks will keep him in the air.

 

4th Ability:

·       When activating the ability, it will start instantly.

·       Pressing the ability will bring you into the animation while holding the ability will send clones out to kill instead of you.

·       If you want to jump out of bs, press the ability again and the clones will continue to kill enemies.

·       Enemies that are red can be killed by players.

·       There is no limit to how many enemies he can kill within the radius of the enemy he`s aiming at.

·       An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs.

·       Sliding before activating will increase the animation speed by 20%.

 

Since Ash doesn`t have any synergy (or any good ones) here are some that will improve his performance;

 

Synergies

Smoke Screen + Shuriken, Teleport & Blade Storm:

·       If you use any ability while you`re invisible, enemy bodies will disappear.

·       The energy cost will also be cut down by half.

·       If you teleport to an enemy while you are invisible you will stun enemies around you.

·       Using you 1st, 3rd and 4th abilities on the smoke victim will increase the damage dealt to the enemy.

 

Shuriken + Teleport:

·       Using the 1st ability on an enemy will show their health bar through walls longer, making you able to teleport to them as long as they are continually receiving bleeding ticks.

 

 Shuriken + Blade Storm:

To increase the damage of bs you must use shuriken. As long as enemies continuously keep receiving bleeding ticks, your damage will increase over time with no limit.

·       Enemies need to be alive and bleeding from the 1st ability for bs to build up damage.

·       If no enemies are affected by slash, you will have five seconds before the damage is lost.

·       If the five seconds is up, the stored-up damage will decay overtime instead of disappearing completely.

·       There will be an indicator showing the amount of damage you are accumulating and the amount of time you have left.

·       If you get downed, the timer won`t start until you are revived.

 

Fixes:

·       Make Ash be able to teleport in and out of the same grates instead of just one direction.

·       Make opening enemies up to finishers consistent with 3rd ability.

·       Sometime ash is glitched and stabbing the air and he is unseen when using bs due to camera angle.

·       Make the “clones” look like him (like wukong`s 1st ability) instead of looking like a hologram.

·       When blade storm is done, Ash doesn’t appear at the same place he started at but instead is teleported in a different location.

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4 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

All abilities can be cast while on a zipline.

Agreed.

4 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

1st Ability:

·       If enemy is killed in one hit it is considered as a stealth kill.

·       Holding the ability will make both shurikens target the enemy you`re aiming at dealing double slash damage and adds critical damage based on what crit damage mods you have equipped on your melee weapon, also headshots will do more damage.

·       The more health the enemy loses, the slower the enemy moves when bleeding out.

·       When the enemy stops bleeding, it will go back to its normal movement speed.

·       It has a combo window on 1 second. The more you use the ability, the more damage it does, the less energy it takes.

·       The built-up damage multi from spamming it can affect the held version of shuriken.

Agreed with the stealth kill, but in my opinion his 1 shouldnt be affected by mods no matter what. In terms of damage per shuriken it should remain as is. Also I detest hold mechanic, since they slow us down, which is why I would rather avoid that to.

Finally I dont think we need to give him any CC with bleed procs, since he already pushes a lot of dmg. Also I much rather have more shurikens than more dmg per shurikens, which is why I went the combo counter rout on my suggestion, I would like to avoid the need of spamming an ability.

4 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

2nd Ability:

·       Increase the cast stun duration to 4 sec.

·       The smoke left behind will last for 10 seconds.

·       The smoke has a 5m radius which can be increased by range mods.

·       Enemies that enter the smoke will have a 6 sec stun duration and are 40% more susceptible to damage.

·       All stun durations cannot be increased by duration mods.

·       Smoke cloud`s radius can be increased by range mods.

·       The stun and the smoke damage buff will also work on bosses.

·       When Ash is invisible, the apparitions from bs are also invisible.

Agreed with the BS clones to be invisible, but I dont think smoke screen needs any further changes, especially not a dmg debuff.

4 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

3rd Ability:

·       Holding the ability will show an indicator of where he can teleport to from the radical but the range is hafted.

·       Teleporting to a wall will make ash hang to the wall for 3 seconds.

·       Not only it can teleport to anything with a health bar, it can also teleport to anything that can be scanned.

·       You can teleport through windows if there are allies, npcs, enemies or objects with a health bar or is scannable objects on the other side of it.

·       You are able to teleport to enemies that are in the air.

·       After teleporting in the air, preforming melee attacks will keep him in the air.

Again I would rather avoid hold mechanics, instead I would like for his teleport to just adjust to his line of sight automatically. Also the hanging part sounds really annoying and useless. Just let us freely teleport, with the addition of letting us perform finishers on enemies we teleport to.

4 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

4th Ability:

·       When activating the ability, it will start instantly.

·       Pressing the ability will bring you into the animation while holding the ability will send clones out to kill instead of you.

·       If you want to jump out of bs, press the ability again and the clones will continue to kill enemies.

·       Enemies that are red can be killed by players.

·       There is no limit to how many enemies he can kill within the radius of the enemy he`s aiming at.

·       An indicator is shown of the number of enemies that are going to be killed by bs.

·       Sliding before activating will increase the animation speed by 20%.

I prefer my changes over this one. We can already jump into blade storm via his 3, that said I do like the idea of teleporting out of his 4.

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4 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Smoke Screen + Shuriken, Teleport & Blade Storm:

·       If you use any ability while you`re invisible, enemy bodies will disappear.

·       The energy cost will also be cut down by half.

·       If you teleport to an enemy while you are invisible you will stun enemies around you.

·       Using you 1st, 3rd and 4th abilities on the smoke victim will increase the damage dealt to the enemy.

Sound good aside from the last point. I dont think ash needs a dmg increase.

4 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Shuriken + Blade Storm:

To increase the damage of bs you must use shuriken. As long as enemies continuously keep receiving bleeding ticks, your damage will increase over time with no limit.

·       Enemies need to be alive and bleeding from the 1st ability for bs to build up damage.

·       If no enemies are affected by slash, you will have five seconds before the damage is lost.

·       If the five seconds is up, the stored-up damage will decay overtime instead of disappearing completely.

·       There will be an indicator showing the amount of damage you are accumulating and the amount of time you have left.

·       If you get downed, the timer won`t start until you are revived.

I dislike this synergy a lot. It basically comes back to the spamming. Instead Bleed DoT increasing combo counter would be a much more prefered synergy, since it would also cover those use cases where you cant use a melee weapon to do so.

4 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Shuriken + Teleport:

·       Using the 1st ability on an enemy will show their health bar through walls longer, making you able to teleport to them as long as they are continually receiving bleeding ticks.

Sounds unnecessary. I'd rather just be able to freely teleport, also teleporting through walls is just asking for possible bugs.

 

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On 2019-12-14 at 6:45 PM, BlachWolf said:

-snip-

Ability points:

I understand what you say about the hold mechanic slowing you down however this case is different coz the point is to aim at the enemy, the press can be use on the move for quick kills while the hold is to precisely target a enemy with high damage. He already has cc with bleed procs it`s not consistent but its there I`m just improving it. I will say I like the idea of the combo multi affecting shuriken`s damage, as for spamming, there are lots of ways to recover energy so that's not an issue plus on my idea I said the more he spams the ability, the less energy it consumes.

 

Me personally the ability doesn't really work like a smoke screen but my idea makes it more so plus it offers cc and since he is a damage based frame, why not add something to make him a full damage dealer besides it`s only enemies that are in the cloud.

With these changes, here`s how it now can be used;

·       You can use it next to a dangerously high-levelled enemy to stun it and kill it with ease.

·       You can use it to block enemies in doorways. Since the smoke affect duration is 6 seconds and the smoke lasts 10 seconds, enemies will be stuck for a total of 12 seconds.

·       If you mod for less duration and more range, it will turn it into a better cc ability.

This makes it overall a better ability.

 

For teleport, its a choice. The press is for killing enemies, quickly teleport and the ability to teleport through windows while the hold is to teleport to a specific place with an indicator, at least their is choice.

 

And for me I prefer my idea for the reason that it`s quick, simple, makes sense and their is a choice plus joining bs with his 3 in low levels is sometimes not possible and is not necessary press to join and hold to send clones is simpler. At least having the option to jump out of bs means you can revive teammates and companions.

 

Synergy points:

I explained the damage part so a wont address this again.

This is only really considers for high-level missions but I will say I prefer you idea with the combo multi.

I do see what you saying but this already happens in the game and not just with Ash. If you look at a enemy then hide behind a wall you will see their health bar for a few seconds which makes it to where you can teleport to them which makes sense since teleporting is based on sight and memory, my idea just increases the time you can see the health bar through the wall.

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

I understand what you say about the hold mechanic slowing you down however this case is different coz the point is to aim at the enemy, the press can be use on the move for quick kills while the hold is to precisely target a enemy with high damage. He already has cc with bleed procs it`s not consistent but its there I`m just improving it. I will say I like the idea of the combo multi affecting shuriken`s damage, as for spamming, there are lots of ways to recover energy so that's not an issue plus on my idea I said the more he spams the ability, the less energy it consumes.

We could just suggest both, holding will send all shurikens flying in one direction, while casting it normally will let them aim freely. That said I dislike shuriken having a combo counter of its own, I dont really think its necessary.

Quote

Smoke screen

I can get pass the CC, but I really dont think we need to give ash more dmg in form of a multiplier, its really unnecessary. I want ash to increase to much in power.

2 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

For teleport, its a choice. The press is for killing enemies, quickly teleport and the ability to teleport through windows while the hold is to teleport to a specific place with an indicator, at least their is choice.

Well we can just make the free teleport allow him to teleport where ever his aiming at with in range. This would mean that if he's aiming at the ground 15m away, he will teleport there. Thus no need of a hold mechanic. You can think of it like how directional ground slam work, where you can aim at the ground with in a radius to teleport yourself to that point.

That said I fully agree with being able to go out of blade storm while its running.

2 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Synergy points:

I really dont think blade storm needs a dmg synergy besides an augment buff.

The only issue I have with the teleport finisher without LoS is that it can cause you to fall from the map and thus increase bugs exponentially.

 

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