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DeeDeetheSpy

H3dsh0t's revisit to Banshee

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He posted a new video revisiting it and had some great suggestions and I agree with his overall message. a fun but dated frame that is too squishy for it's own good. I found it amusing he came out with this today given yesterday I was just playing with her a lot and talking with my clan on adjustments she could get. (though a lot of clan mates look far more down on her than I do)

 

 

 

I have some suggestions of my own I posted and thought I would share them here too

1: Her abilities need some synergy going for them of some kind. Pablo, PLEASE grace us with your magic touch. 

2: Swap the damage types of her 1 and 4. Sound Quake should be doing impact damage not blast due to it being a stagger and Sonic Boom should be blast due to rag doll. Sound Quake's Augment should then change SQ to Blast type instead of impact and also cause the weapon drop effect.

3: Synergy suggestion. Have her 3 cause enemies not just to grab their ears in pain but drop their weapons to the ground and be disarmed. Not like Loki's Disarm where its for good but like Titania's Disarm where they can run and pick it up again. On top of that, the weapons can be pushed away with blast damage attacks so enemies go chasing after their guns.

4: Confusion, Enemies impacted by 3 perhaps instead keep grabbing their head but if something attacks them, they will attack that target back. Be it friend or foe (Radiation synergy).

5: Suppressor passive is a joke given her 3 does the exact same thing. I think it would be something to perhaps have a "sound disturbance" passive that causes enemies to become more and more inaccurate based on the number of powers they are affected by... That includes multiple stacks of Resonance causes more and more inaccuracy.

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21 минуту назад, DeeDeetheSpy сказал:

1: Her abilities need some synergy going for them of some kind. Pablo, PLEASE grace us with your magic touch. 

Please no, I don't want to cast 2 spells to make one of them work on full potential.

Also who's that guy H3dsh0t?

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43 minutes ago, DeeDeetheSpy said:

Suppressor passive is a joke given her 3 does the exact same thing. I think it would be something to perhaps have a "sound disturbance" passive that causes enemies to become more and more inaccurate based on the number of powers they are affected by... That includes multiple stacks of Resonance causes more and more inaccuracy.

It's really not. Silence deafens enemies, it doesn't suppress your gunfire. Meaning, enemies outside your Silence's range can and will hear you.

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Trust me if you wana do well with Banshee then pretty much do nothing in that video.
People in my Endurance Discord community were making fun of it yesterday.

First off the representation is disingenuous. Video is paired with a Wisp the entire time or Immune in the Simulacrum. Still they die instantly regardless of all the pointless Defensive mods they put on her instead of the right weapons and moving correctly. Essentially showing it's a dumb idea.

Using all the wrong mods and using the wrong weapon which causes her to stand still far too much with not enough passive CC attached like Rad status and AoE. Please, please do not play Banshee like this. It's insulting and just comical when they compare her damage output to Chroma.

Banshee relies on Silence CC, Sonic Boom CC, movement, her weapon's CC and massive damage output to survive. If these tactics don't work correctly then maybe just maybe it's the game's new design and not the frame you should to pointing a figure at. Just sayin'.

If you can't stay alive playing Banshee then it's your fault. Not hers:
rQjK4ED.jpg

Torrid / Mara Detron. No Defensive mods, Solo.
For my lvl 300 Solo run I used similar with a Specter using Arca Plasmor for additional Rad procs.

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9 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Trust me if you wana do well with Banshee then pretty much do nothing in that video

Sorry dude, but now that the whining has begun, it's only a matter of time before Banshee is reworked and destroyed, not even resembling her former self to appease the casual braindead low effort player.

Rip

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15 минут назад, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru сказал:

Sorry dude, but now that the whining has begun, it's only a matter of time before Banshee is reworked and destroyed, not even resembling her former self to appease the casual braindead low effort player.

Rip

If she'll remain a sound lady, it'll be ok.

If DE will acknowledge.she's struggling at some of new content and tweak her powers it'll be ok.

If DE will go with the flow and give her kavat scat ideas from forum like damage resist and idiotic synergies with "loudness" meter, i'll throw a #*!%in tantrum.

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50 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Sorry dude, but now that the whining has begun, it's only a matter of time before Banshee is reworked and destroyed, not even resembling her former self to appease the casual braindead low effort player.

Rip

 

I accepted a while back Banshee would eventually get "Casualized" it's only a matter of time. Nyx, Ember and soon Banshee.

DE's new content forces a specific play style that doesn't work for older frames in spite of their build diversity, group roles or performance.

Every frame must now have : "Insert Theme":

  • Generic theme low-end CC
  • Generic theme DR / Avoidance
  • Generic theme Damage source
  • Generic mechanic to keep fingers busy in absence of gameplay doing so

I don't know why they bother to make new frames at this point. Whatever has those most eHP + DPS is the winner.
Just shelf everything else. There's like 3 frames in the game when it comes to the new trash "Vision" of Warframe.

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24 минуты назад, Xzorn сказал:

Every frame must now have : "Insert Theme":

  • Generic theme low-end CC
  • Generic theme DR / Avoidance
  • Generic theme Damage source
  • Generic mechanic to keep fingers busy in absence of gameplay doing so

I'll just say 1 word and you'll be blown into pieces. Ready?

3

2

1

GAWOODA

Welp, other than Garuda I agree, other new frames are dumb and ez to play. Starting from China frames the only frame who felt astonishing and vanilla is Garuda.

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11 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

I accepted a while back Banshee would eventually get "Casualized" it's only a matter of time. Nyx, Ember and soon Banshee.

DE's new content forces a specific play style that doesn't work for older frames in spite of their build diversity, group roles or performance.

Every frame must now have : "Insert Theme":

  • Generic theme low-end CC
  • Generic theme DR / Avoidance
  • Generic theme Damage source
  • Generic mechanic to keep fingers busy in absence of gameplay doing so

I don't know why they bother to make new frames at this point. Whatever has those most eHP + DPS is the winner.
Just shelf everything else. There's like 3 frames in the game when it comes to the new trash "Vision" of Warframe.

Spot on, I couldn't agree more.

De needs another financial crisis so they can stop doing the stupid things they want to do, and adhere to the desires of the community. These guys think they're so cool, "look guys we did a meme!" Or "Haha we made a promiscuous joke on stream, we're so cool".

No...stop it. Focus on core gameplay elements that made people want to play your game in the first place. (This is why I know Railjack is going to be terrible as it focuses on archwing and reliable cooperative play, 2 aspects of Warframe which DE has failed.)

Focus on the niche communities that exist as fans of current Warframes rather than turning them all into the same mechanics with different aesthetics. 

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16 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

Welp, other than Garuda I agree, other new frames are dumb and ez to play. Starting from China frames the only frame who felt astonishing and vanilla is Garuda.

 

Garuda has all those things. Her DR / Avoidance just doesn't work correctly because they never fixed 6 year old mechanic flaws.
Overall she plays a little more out of the standard but not much. Esp for casual play since she can still get a modest 20k eHP and does double damage.

13 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

No...stop it. Focus on core gameplay elements that made people want to play your game in the first place. (This is why I know Railjack is going to be terrible as it focuses on archwing and reliable cooperative play, 2 aspects of Warframe which DE has failed.)

Focus on the niche communities that exist as fans of current Warframes rather than turning them all into the same mechanics with different aesthetics. 

 

I agree and sadly I also hope Railjack does poorly. I don't wish ill of DE but something needs to open their eyes outside dollar signs.

They talk about Veteran players as if they're a minority when everyone eventually becomes a Veteran. If their Vets are a legit minority that means they couldn't keep them interested and doesn't speak very highly of a long term play value game. That's admitting your game is completely front loaded with no replay value.

Core Mechanics... Oh God how I've preached for so long. Without a good foundation nothing built atop will function correctly.

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6 минут назад, Xzorn сказал:

Garuda has all those things. Her DR / Avoidance just doesn't work correctly because they never fixed 6 year old mechanic flaws.
Overall she plays a little more out of the standard but not much. Esp for casual play since she can still get a modest 20k eHP and does double damage.

Ok now im totally see how biased you are. Preaching one thing each thread like lobotomized.

I really wanted to agree with you but this is just nonsense.

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12 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

Ok now im totally see how biased you are. Preaching one thing each thread like lobotomized.

I really wanted to agree with you but this is just nonsense.

 

I don't think I ever claimed not to be bias. I'm in fact quite polarizing in my opinions. The time you can generally count on non-bias is when I post math.

Garuda follows majority of the staples. You probably have like 2 builds with her that hardly differ because she cannot go without any specific stat unlike old frames and her entire kit is a busy-work loop. Keep up the shield, refill the life, turn the life to energy, use the 4, keep up the shield, refill the life... ect. Garuda plays like Garuda. She will always play like Garuda. Just like Wisp will always play like Wisp and that goes for most new frames.

Older frames however can play vastly different. I Max duration on Loki I'm a Solo stealth killer. I Max Range and slot Rad-Disarm I'm a CC frame. I go High range / Duration Frost with Icewave Impedance I'm a CC frost. I go high Strength I'm a nuke/armor strip mobile bunker Frost. I grab Rhino go High Strength / Duration I'm a team buff Roar, I drop Strength go Range I'm a Stomp CC Rhino and then of course I can go IronClad which mixes IronSkin and Roar but more to the Topic. I play Banshee with 13% Duration / Max Range I'm a CC lockdown Banshee. I play her with Strength / duration / range I'm an Resonance / Armor strip Banshee. I go Savage Silence I'm stealth / Focus farming Banshee.

Banshee used to have another but it was nerfed. So was her melee. At one point I had 5 distinct builds for her. Same with Nyx.

New frame design doesn't follow roles or a purpose they follow a theme preventing them from taking on any other aspect than their defined theme.
It's boring. Esp for someone like myself who enjoys making and fitting different builds together. Esp when it's outside the "meta",

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29 минут назад, Xzorn сказал:

New frame design doesn't follow roles or a purpose they follow a theme preventing them from taking on any other aspect than their defined theme.
It's boring. Esp for someone like myself who enjoys making and fitting different builds together. Esp when it's outside the "meta",

Like someone has to care about your preferences. Esp DE. Esp for endurance runners.

Garuda may have one and only playstyle. And this does not lowering her value as a great frame to play with. Guess why? Cuz she demands at least some #*!%in skill.

You want what, each frame has two/three staple builds with virtually the same mods, and each time you go for a mission you do one and only thing? So much for "build diversity".

How about I play mostly old frames and tweak my build for each damn mission, be it complete change in powers, or sacrificing some stats mods for mobility, or simply swapping aura?

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Every damn suggestion that comes up to give Banshee more survivability always centers around passive DR. That's not Banshee. Her playstyle was always a high APM, active one(for warframe standards, anyway). Plus, she needs way more love in the QoL department to feel good to use. Her and Loki haven't been touched outside of a few minor changes to their abilities over 7 years, and while Loki has been consistently used over the years, Banshee has remained at the bottom of the usage list. I dont think DE will ever spend time on her.

Edited by AuroraSonicBoom
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25 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

Like someone has to care about your preferences. Esp DE. Esp for endurance runners.

Garuda may have one and only playstyle. And this does not lowering her value as a great frame to play with. Guess why? Cuz she demands at least some #*!%in skill.

 

DE doesn't care, that's been obvious for years and that's why long term players are finally leaving the game.
They don't care about Support for their game either leaving players in the dark for literal months unable to play the game.

No frame requires anything besides fundamental understanding outside Endurance runs; let alone skill. That's one of the main problems with this game. I don't even need to use Garuda's kit to clear lvl 100's. It's all crap to keep your fingers busy that you won't make much use of because DE refuses to make content to facilitate it. Do you have any idea how hard Garuda scales if / when her Mirror aka "Generic Avoidance" I mentioned works properly?

What's the point in a "playstyle" if I don't even need to use it in "typical" content.

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13 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

What's the point in a "playstyle" if I don't even need to use it in "typical" content.

^^This is what concerns me with DE's current direction.  I'm hoping that Ivara Prime's release will at least make them look at Stealth mechanics.  Sadly, I doubt that will happen as more than likely Ivara will get changed to make the braindead style players happy.  I just hope the latter is not the case.  

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21 минуту назад, Xzorn сказал:

I don't even need to use Garuda's kit to clear lvl 100's.

Oh well can you imagine I died once on full bless trinity build on Lich mission.

Guess there is some room for mistakes in the game, yet there is not so much in difficulty department. Thus I agree. But it is not about build diversity.

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26 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

^^This is what concerns me with DE's current direction.  I'm hoping that Ivara Prime's release will at least make them look at Stealth mechanics.  Sadly, I doubt that will happen as more than likely Ivara will get changed to make the braindead style players happy.  I just hope the latter is not the case.  

 

They might not touch her or just buff Infiltrate for no reason like they buffed Volt's Transistor Shield augment.

Just making her move faster in stealth would probably shut a lot of players up about her though there's a more to it obviously.

 

10 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

Oh well can you imagine I died once on full bless trinity build on Lich mission.

Guess there is some room for mistakes in the game, yet there is not so much in difficulty department. Thus I agree. But it is not about build diversity.

 

Not really but I haven't done a single Lich. It's the same formula as Rivens which isn't fun. I Imagine they have a one-shot mechanic or something because Trinity can push 1,866,000 eHP Solo if you want to drop an Ancient Healer. Nothing short of lvl 500+ enemies can even put a dent in her.

This game has always been about building for the task at hand. It's why I wish they'd incorporate dynamic objectives into missions. Because of that building to extremes even if it prevents you from using an ability is always a better option. I personally don't want to use the same exact 4 abilities that hardly change. I like when they change drastically based on the mods I put on the frame thus I hate new frame design because a lil Range here a lil Strength there. Doesn't really matter.

Every new frame probably has 1-2 mod difference across the board for all players.
You can't really build wrong like this video shows with old frames. They're building and playing Banshee wrong and suffer for it.
...but of course it's the frame's fault not the user.

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4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I don't wish ill of DE

4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I also hope Railjack does poorly.

Why? Why put energy into something like this?

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44 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Why? Why put energy into something like this?

 

Hope.

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18 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

Hope.

Hope is wanting a new update to do poorly? I quoted both of those things because they are at odds. You don't wish ill of them, just that their new update for their only game does poorly. Why play a game when you have such disdain for it and/or the devs who make it?

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14 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Hope is wanting a new update to do poorly? I quoted both of those things because they are at odds. You don't wish ill of them, just that their new update for their only game does poorly. Why play a game when you have such disdain for it and/or the devs who make it?

good things often come out of failures. this is how people learn.

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15 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Hope is wanting a new update to do poorly? I quoted both of those things because they are at odds. You don't wish ill of them, just that their new update for their only game does poorly. Why play a game when you have such disdain for it and/or the devs who make it?

 

It's a matter of playing the long game.

I hope it doesn't do well so DE will realize their audience has grown increasingly tired of the same repetitive and low re-play value content they've been making. I hope they will see simple changes can go a long way and that they're taking far too long between updates. I hope they will see their current development has given most players a complex over the word "Rework" in an unending circle or fixing something five times over because it wasn't done correctly the first time.

I hope the company improves as a whole by falling on it's face. People tend to learn from mistakes after all. It just seems to take DE a few extra tumbles. I like the Devs, most of them at least. I wouldn't be here typing if I didn't care. I wouldn't have played for 7 years and bought cosmetics either but I don't see a bright future on this current course.

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4 hours ago, Miyabi-sama said:

Oh well can you imagine I died once on full bless trinity build on Lich mission.

Guess there is some room for mistakes in the game, yet there is not so much in difficulty department. Thus I agree. But it is not about build diversity.

I've had this discussion with Xzorn before.  I disagreed with their talk of build diversity.  But there is some truth to their perspective.  They miss how heavily important modding use to effect frames.  Allowing you to specialize.  These days you can choose to "focus" on an ability or two with modding but the overall approach you take with a frame doesn't drastically change.  With Garuda for instance I have a build based around her 4 and 1 combo.  A melee focused build.  and a range based build.  I have different goals for what i'm doing with said builds.  But in all 3 i'm still basically using all of my powers and the powers themselves don't have anything crazy going on like how going with negative strength on Nova makes her speed enemies up.

To them all frames for sometime now are basically the same even if their gameplay ends up being truly different.  Just because all frames being designed these days all carry similar capabilities.  And thematic gameplay differences are not enough to scratch the itch for them.  Which is understandable considering how much your frame used to change with modding.  I share Xzorn's desire to have true specalizations and roles with warframe.  I just don't think the old way things used to be are empirically superior to how frames are designed these days.  Thematic gameplay is very engaging for myself, but I understand where they and others come from.

But for this kind of design to actually have a place in warframe (and be done properly) general game direction has to change.  Which is unlikely.  Even i've grown tired of the constant additions of content islands and DE's constant need to force rng into gameplay with things like rivens and now liches.  I mean they're re using both the relic system and endo.  I'm not even pumped for railjack anymore due to having to go grind "new" resources and how railjack itself is essentially the same as modding a warframe.  Neither the liches or railjack are what they initially showed off.  And it's the first time I feel let down by a piece of content DE is releasing on a big scale.

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