Guns compared to Melee are trash.

[Uhkretor]

I don't know what he/she's talking about... I 1-shot everything at lvl100 with my weapons...

13 hours ago, Xzorn said:

13 hours ago, Rubbertubtub01 said:

You're using the lanka than can only shoot once every 2 seconds. And by the looks of the enemies remaining health, you're going to have to 6 shot it. And that's only a light unit.

... I think you've missed the part where it says "level 2124"...

Edited December 12, 2019 by Uhkretor
Corrected to "level 2124".

[Rubbertubtub01]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

Believe it or not, my main issue was ammo. DPS was just fine. Easily solved with Carrier or an ammo mutator in the Exilus. Still made it through with some good trigger discipline.

My Converted Lich had as much faith in me as you did OP:

But with melee, you could do 1 slide attack and instantly kill them both. Instead of using, 20-30 bullets? to kill them both with the soma?

[Awazx]

Il y a 4 heures, Rubbertubtub01 a dit :

Why bother going for headshots with guns when I can get a way higher damage output by spamming E.

Because in the universe of DE a sword is always more powerful than a laser machine gun.

[ExcaliburUmbra]

1 hour ago, Rubbertubtub01 said:

But with melee, you could do 1 slide attack and instantly kill them both. Instead of using, 20-30 bullets? to kill them both with the soma?

 Not trying to be rude here but you missed his point.

In the post he is responding to, you claim that Soma Prime is “not viable” for sorties. The fact that Loza03 was able to complete a sortie mission using Soma Prime proves that the gun is actually quite viable.

Optimal? No. Better then melee? Of course not. But is it a useable gun for sorties? Sure.

”Viable” does not mean “the best”. If it is feasible to use the weapon to compete a given mission, then the weapon is viable for that content. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by ExcaliburUmbra

[GPrime96]

Melees are definitely not even close to Guns after Melee Phase 2. They were better than Guns before it.

[Aadi880]

6 hours ago, Rubbertubtub01 said:

Barely any of the tiles have a range long enough to make guns better than melee past level 100. Also if you're going to argue that you're going to get shot during your approach, and you're vulnerable while attacking, it's not like your invulnerable while shooting guns. If anything you're moving while using melee and standing still so you can aim with guns, which makes you more vulnerable to use guns rather than melee. 

Thats about to change though.

Map design was based off of Parkour 1.0. With the implementation of bullet jumping, traversal sped up, but the map size did not increase. Its also why one of the reasons conclave does not  work well is because of the faster movement with smaller maps does not equate to a very nice experience (Ofc, there is the telos boltace problem, but that's for later.)

If you have seen Steve's Corpus Ship Tileset Rework on twitter, the map size has increased by a large factor. Its will result in and enemies being more spread out. You can already feel some of it in Jupiter, where there are even some forced parkour, and ranges that meleeing is not viable at all (flying enemies). Confrontations are going to be more longer in ranges in the future.

Of course, there is a problem with DE delays, but still,  its in the works, so its not out of the question.

[Aadi880]

29 minutes ago, GPrime96 said:

Melees are definitely not even close to Guns after Melee Phase 2. They were better than Guns before it.

Nope. OP was talking about lv 100 enemy levels, where melee has been significantly buffed for.

[Loza03]

6 hours ago, ExcaliburUmbra said:

 Not trying to be rude here but you missed his point.

In the post he is responding to, you claim that Soma Prime is “not viable” for sorties. The fact that Loza03 was able to complete a sortie mission using Soma Prime proves that the gun is actually quite viable.

Optimal? No. Better then melee? Of course not. But is it a useable gun for sorties? Sure.

”Viable” does not mean “the best”. If it is feasible to use the weapon to compete a given mission, then the weapon is viable for that content. 

This guy gets it.

[(NSW)Conn1496]

This obviously completely depends on the Gun vs Melee you're talking about. As well as in what situation. I have a handful of weapons that are viable for all kinds of content and it's almost a 50/50 split between Melee and Primary. It's not so much that Melee is OP, moreso that crowd clearing more often than not is.

I think a very interesting weapon to take into consideration IMO is Redeemer Prime. I would not dare bring this weapon to Arbitrations, despite the fact that it (or at least the regular Redeemer) has single-handedly carried me through multiple pieces of content, and still continues to be a reliable pick for when I feel like other tools I use for fun aren't cutting it. The reason I don't use Redeemer Prime there is because, frankly speaking, I have to aim at enemies one by one. It just isn't efficient. It doesn't sweep crowds like my Sancti Magistar or Paracesis can, and Sancti Magistar also has the benefit of it's Heavy Attacks having extra utility. But to top it all off, neither of those melee weapons hold a candle to my Ignis Wraith, which turns crowds into helpless piles of ash from a safe distance, and basically never runs out of ammo.

Would I bring only my Ignis Wraith to an Eidolon Hunt or Assassination Sortie though? Of course not. I have Redeemer Prime, and the Ignis Wraith comparatively sucks at killing bosses because it isn't as good at single target damage or hitting weakpoints. Ignis Wraith just so happens to be my best tool for the main meat and bones of the game - absolutely murdering multiple enemies at once. Even the Harpak (an IMO underwhelming projectile based gun which I built exclusively for fun) is a better choice for bosses, because it just has the traits I need for that content.

Even my low level experience mirrored this. Back in Melee 2.0, I Melee slammed my way through content until I got the Simulor, which was the first gun I grabbed that held up to Melee for clearing or at least controlling crowds. But relying on the Simulor got me stuck multiple times on boss content, and I ended up having to grind for much better single target weapons. For a long while, I found a solid middle ground of crowd killing and single target damage in both the Tonkor and Zarr launchers, but I don't have either of those weapons anymore because they stopped working for my purposes, and I felt like I would rather have the weapon slots.

As of writing, I can consistently hit C rotation rewards in Arbitrations primarily using my Ignis Wraith. The only time I feel like any other weapon is necessary or even comes close in utility is in Defense objectives, where the Sancti Magistar's healing - and important to note, not it's crowd clearing - is an insanely valuable asset in keeping the objective alive. Any other time, I slap my Furax Wraith in the Melee slot and take the amalgam mod, just for the additional launcher blast range (Which makes my Ignis all the more viable.).

Ultimately, I just find it ironic that my best weapon for clearing crowds is a Primary weapon that I technically need to aim, and my best weapon for killing single targets is a Melee weapon that is mostly powerful for it's ranged abilities... I'm sure these are outliers, but that just further emphasises my point - it depends on the weapon, not the type.

(As a final note, Secondaries are generally pretty awful in my personal experience, though the Atomos was pretty good for me for a while almost exclusively for the fact it's beam hit multiple enemies and could apply relatively good status procs. But the most notorious secondary of them all - the pre-nerf Catchmoon (I don't know how it fares now) - why was it good? It too obliterated crowds.)

[Mikhael222]

In addition to everything else people wrote......some of us just like shooting things 'cause guns are cool.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

The whole thing is that melee deals more damage than guns to compensate for its lack of range.

[bubbabenali]

The new melee system made trash shortie viable.

Honestly, I can't imagine even one melee weapon that's not outperforming 99% of the secondaries and primaries 

[(PSN)NemitheNem]

On 2019-12-11 at 6:19 PM, AvPCelticPredator said:

The same thing is with frames, some of them are so powerfull, some of them are crap. For example Octavia, Ivara in comparision with Saryn, Wisp, Hildryn, Ember are junk.

Octavia of the infinetly scaling damage? Ivara is not a multi target dps frame and so is comparing apples and jellyfish. 

On 2019-12-11 at 6:39 PM, Xzorn said:

It's also why the "Lifted" status is so stupid. What you're hitting in melee isn't the danger. It's what's shooting you in the back.

Lifted counts for condition overload and prevents the enemies from the bs not being stunned. 

[(PSN)thegarada]

Yes, melee weapons significantly out damage guns. But, should not they? Also, much of the content requires ranged weapons. Most assassinations do. Eidolon and profit take. Defense, mobile defense and interception need good ranged weapons to prevent objectives from being destroyed and kill enemies from a distant. 

So ya, if you go to an arbitration survivability and want to stay for more than 20 minutes, you do need a well decked melee weapons. 

[Benour]

Only snipers with combo counter and few primaries that can exploit Viral/Hunter Munitions can compare to 12x combo melee Viral/slash. Pre or post patch, the meta didnt change that much (well you could say melee is worse now). With sniper you have to headshot constantly to get full potential, with melee you just spamm E and proc tons of bleeds very fast + forced slash on stances. Also any NON-Slash melee is "garbage" for endurance. Viral slash is king or gas/HM with bane mod on snipers.