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Where Would We Liche To Go From Here: Lich System


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What happens when boredom meets nerd. This!

With the holidays here and work being slow for me I thought I'd make my first post about the 2019 Lich System and throw out a few ideas for where I'd like to see the system go, where It may go, and offer a forum for like minded nerds to chime in with me.

I keep up with some of the louder voices in the community. I check out Brozime (though I enjoy disagreeing with him often), Iwoply (despite the recent Empyrean temper tantrum), MCGamerCZ (the Warframe Mr Rogers) and GrindHardSquad (real love for GHS). I follow Tactical Potato even though he can’t pronounce Gauss properly, or much else in English for that matter; and I used to follow iFlynn before he took his ball and went home.

Just like you all I roll my eyes when the New War becomes a “War” rather then a lore quest as was cleeeeeearly referenced at Tennocon. Sure DE, sure it wasn’t a cinematic quest *wink*.

If you have problems with grammar or proper semicolon use; this post won’t be for you.

After the initial release and subsequent nerdsplosion over drop rates the community cooled off. DE has a habit of releasing things tight and then easing out the RNG and power slowly after mishaps in the past. When the Eidolons came out the rewards sucked. Why? Because DE wanted to see if the player base could find an exploit. So they eased in with ol’ Terry and updated the rewards after that.

I, for one, never had a doubt DE would tune the requiem drop rates and I legitimately think the system gives the player base a lot to do while setting up DE to integrate the system into other areas of the game as it expands. If they want to.

1.      What the System Gets Right.

The system gets a lot of things right. We have a system with long-tale progression. Dozens of hours (if not more) of farming and something to grind for when we get bored. Which is what a grind game is supposed to be. Grind, but enjoy the grind. The lich system provides that. The requiem relics issue was very quickly fixed and its something to do. Period.

The character and design of the liches should also be commended. They look cool; most of their powers are cool, and

But what do we want. We may not get it, but I have a short Christmas list of what I’d like to see one day from the Lich system.

The system has a helluva lot of potential and if they want to; anybody with half a brain can see how this could be plugged into just about every system DE could ever want in this game. Empyerean, planes, open worlds, the new open world ruined  city that’s bound to show up eventually, oh my! Question here being, will DE divert resources to doing this. Ideally they would be hooked up sooner then later when new expansions drop; or could be outsourced to your tennogen…. mebbe.

The system also sets the stage for territories. I remember one of my favorite parts of San Andreas was increasing my gang territory. Taking back the system from a Lich is kinda cool. With some expansion; this could be a lot of fun to have to hold back the tide of the invested, corpus, Lotus, Hunhow or whoever (whatever) else has a faction.

1.      Add a Nemesis System

The Lich system was originally called the Nemesis System back at 2019 Tennocon. During the last Devstream Steve explained they didn’t think players wanted to wait 70 days to get a Kuva weapon. I believe this is half true.

Players don’t want there to be too much of a gap between rewards (id endorphin/serotonin releases) However, the implication is that players don’t want a personal permanent to semi-permanent adversary.  

There is something to be said for a persistent enemy. You can have a persistent nemesis but still dole out rewards along the way.

In fact, you can have a lich system AND a Nemesis system and I think this is where the system should go. Shadow of Mordor had levels of orcs, and there is no reason we can’t have levels of liches. In fact levels of liches exist in mythology as well; and to me seem a “no duh” no brainer.

We have our lich weapon liches. Then… during the war, we get a different lich. A special lich. The Camilla Cabello to the 5th Harmony of liches so to speak. Advanced, powerful, and persistent. Killing the lich gives your game a break, maybe even a reward. But he/she always comes back.

In the D&D world this is called a Demilich. Which is not a weaker form of lich but far more advanced. Mostly devoid of a body, a lich is a pile of ground bone, dust and a skull. The mind away exploring the cosmos. Only when disturbed does the skull rise.

Enter the nemesis system; an offshoot of the lich system that DOES give you a persistent enemy in the game. Though we will probably be getting the Lotus as a persistent enemy soon; this would be a bit more personal and provide an adversary should DE want to provide repeatable large scale quests; for example taking down a mothership like we saw at tennocon; or expanding our open worlds to include dungeons or strongholds. (*ahem* DE)

The system uses what DE already has, probably wouldn’t take as much coding as most large expansions; and can be plugged into empyrean, the Planes, Fortuna, and anything else that comes in the future.

2.      Planes and the Vallis

Speaking of which, why my lich can’t lead an army against me on the Planes or in the Vallis seems like wasted potential. If I’m a lich, I’m attacking during a Profit Taker fight. We’re space ninjas, we can handle it. Part of what made the Stalker so terrifying back in the day was that he could show up ANYTIME. I mean anytime.

3.      Crossfire – for real

Why is my lich not leading his forces in crossfire against corpus or stomping out the invested. Or spelunking in the Void for that matter. If it’s a war, put us in the middle of the war. What made Halo 1’s campaign so good was that we were a Spartan among a war between the Flood and the Covenant with our clearly outmatched humans.

4.      Level Up

Uh… I can’t forma my converted lich. Hint hint

5.      Kuva Pets

If my Kuva Peg-Legged Pirate Lich cant have his own kuva parrot in the near future (which we already have in the game; ie easy coding hint hint); I’m joining iFlynn in the pouty corner.

6.      Tap your Players

I’ll leave with this. Something that’s probably been discussed many many times before but something I have that itch to let out. Something that's probably harder then it sounds, but what the heck. 

People love this game. Duh.

Some of the people who love this game also have talent for programming games. 

Many would (not "might"... "would") provide mods/content and would literally give to DE for the players. If DE found a way to review them and get them into the game on a selection process; if for nothing more then a credit in their portfolio or a shout-out. 

Skyrim and Fallout have more or less proven there are a lot of talented people out there who want to provide content, for free, for the games and player communities they love. Then Bethesda turned around and started doing paid mods, and a lot of content creators left. Bethesda is dumb, and squandered their player base. Its still there, but its not what it was.

DE, you deserve the community just as much as the community deserves you.  You don’t have to provide for every mod to always make it in of course, but you have an asset sitting out here. You can tap your player base to functionally expand your studio for little more then maybe a manager helping the community; then pick and choose what makes it in. Or however you want to go about it. You do it with skins, do it with other stuff.

But tap your player base. It’s a resource sitting there waiting to give you things for free. Only for the enjoyment of their content being used by the masses.

Instinct Games is doing this and its made their game better; increased replay ability; and kept Ark on Steam far longer then it ever had a right to. We are an asset, we will help you make Warframe, just let us. If you opened a content contest I’d be shocked if you didn’t have your next infested, Eris, all underground open world cave-worm spectacular within a few months.

Or maybe we just get Kuva Pirate Parrots on our liches. Werth.



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you know a person is serious when they be typing in Times New Roman like it's 1997..

the idea of a Lich leading armies in Crossfires and such is great, but we're talking a LOT of work for stuff like this to happen. as in, entirely new systems being added. perhaps in a year or two, we might have some expansion to Liches; DE have proven by tying Liches to Railjack that we can get the kind of stuff you want, but the question is.. is this what everyone - or at least what most people - want?

personally I think it is, but there's a lot of stuff that people want addressed regarding Liches. I think DE would benefit if they work more on the core system of obtaining and dealing with Liches, and then once it's implemented as DE see fit, they can then focus on making Liches work in the rest of the game: Railjack, open world, invasions etc.

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Tbh i would like to see invasion lich missions,don't think the corpus or infested will be happy if their land gets 'yoink! what was yours is now mine' by the liches,even better if we can lead a corpus or infested regiment to deal with the lich armies.

I will prob want to lead a army of MOAs and some advanced proxies,the clone wars but in warframe.

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