(PC) Empyrean: Railjack General Feedback Megathread

[Bathynomus]

Sadly I don't see too much good to say about the empyrean so far.

Part one, the liches are just sad side note, not a long time formidable personal foe as hyped to be.

 

part two, railjacks.

-expendable materials, combined with limited crafting during the mission

-enemy stats have one too many zeroes in them

-railjack stats have one too few zeroes in them

-archwing ability range is too short, 100 meters is a lot in poe but when there's 20 000 meters around you, it's worthless

-the rate you obtain materials is not very good even with the bonus

-the railjack parts are way too expensive to make

-stats on parts are way too rng heavy, it's possible to get just awful mk.3 that is worse than mk.2 in every way.

-mk. 3 parts have additional layer of unnecessary RNG stats, combined with the prices to make the parts it doesn't really seem fair

-the rate we get intrisincs is the final slap in the face. To max a tree it takes a total of 1023 intrisincs, at the moment I seem to get maybe 3-4 per mission on veil. I also get about 1-2 per mission on earth, but those missions take less than fifth of the time to do.

 

So far I've cleared all of the nodes, missing 1 veil proxima, and i don't have enough resources to repair ONE part. Did anyone playtest this with a real account? There's no way anyone thought it's a good idea to make the railjacks feel like they are made of cardboard, while the enemies roll over you in tanks, and have people play 10+ hours of the hamfisted gamemode to possibly get better parts, and still have way too weak gear compared to the enemy.

 

So far the only good thing I see is DE reviving archwings, even if it's only one of them while the rest are just useless due to the unbalanced stats.

 

I seriously hope they rewamp the whole system, or that the new war has nothing to do with railjacks, and it's just a fad like so many other things nobody plays after getting that one or two items from it.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Bathynomus
additional info

[Darkuhn]

At the moment the RNG values of the Railjack Parts is the most polarizing Topic of Railjack.

In my opinion RNG Values aren’t that bad. BUT without an option to upgrade bad roles of rare components it’s quite disappointing and demotivating.

Here is my take on tackling that Topic:

DE could create an upgrade system that allows us to enhance our components and weapons to their maximum by spending increasing amounts of Dirac for every time we enhance the same component a bit like rerolling Rivens but without the randomness.

To upgrade a component from min to max values you would have to enhance it 10 times.

Each enhancement would give 1/10 of the difference between the min and max values.

The costs could be as following:

1. Enhancement: 1.000 Dirac
2. Enhancement: 1.500 Dirac
3. Enhancement: 2.000 Dirac 
4. Enhancement: 2.500 Dirac 
5. Enhancement: 3.000 Dirac
6. Enhancement: 3.500 Dirac 
7. Enhancement: 4.000 Dirac 
8. Enhancement: 4.500 Dirac 
9. Enhancement: 5.000 Dirac 
10. Enhancement: 5.500 Dirac 

Total Costs: 32.500 Dirac 

So for a good roll you would only need a few enhancements to bring it to its maximum Value. And a bad roll of a 2% Drop wouldn’t be as punishing. As you would be able to upgrade it while playing the content. 

As the enhancements would upgrade to the next percentage value DE could make enhancements costs depend on the current values of the components so a near perfect roll would cost 5.500 Dirac to max out.

This would also give us a Dirac sink for when we have all Avionics and grid slots maxed.

[MrBolodenka]

4 hours ago, CopperBezel said:

Not everyone who plays Warframe plays Railjack, but everyone who plays Railjack plays Warframe. Having an incentive you can take back to the main game - that isn't a unique and gated item that's available only in Railjack like the three new weapons - is kind of a good thing. Not everything needs to be a farm for a particular resource, like Kuva Siphons or Arbitration, but having consolation prize items on the drop table that are at least progress for something somewhere are fine. 

Meanwhile, this is the only relevant content involving archwings and doesn't drop any archwing mods. What's up with that?

"Having an incentive you can take back to the main game - that isn't a unique and gated item that's available only in Railjack like the three new weapons - is kind of a good thing."

No, it isn't. Allow me to explain:

The reason this is is objectively terrible is because  of the amount of time it takes to even finish a mission in Railjack to get the mission reward. I'm not talking about items that you get from destroying objects, or items that you get from killing enemies. I'm talking about items that show up on the screen in the "Skirmish Complete" animation. This can take a minimum of anywhere between ~10 to 20 minutes. Now, let's go over the game modes in Warframe outside of Railjack.

1. Arbitration
2. Arena
3. Assassination
4. Assault
5. Capture
6. Defection
7. Disruption
8. Excavation
9. Exterminate
10. Free Roam Bounties
11. Hijack
12. Infested Salvage
13. Interception
14. Kuva Missions
15. Mobile Defense
16. Pursuit
17. Rescue
18. Rush
19. Sabotage
20. (Elite) Sanctuary Onslaught
21. Sorties
22. Spy
23. Syndicate Missions
24. Void Fissures

Now lets take a look at the mission types in Railjack that are available:

1. Skirmish Exterminate
2. Skirmish Assassination and Exterminate and Sabotage
3. Skirmish Sabotage and Exterminate

24 different mission types outside of Railjack, though not all of these will give you the same "main game" rewards that you find in the Railjack mission reward drop tables. 

3 "different" mission types in Railjack that will give you these rewards that you cannot even use in Railjack.

This is a problem because I have a 2% chance to get an item from a Railjack mission, and it will take a minimum of ~10-20 minutes to finish that mission. I could get lucky and get that 2% item, go back to my dojo, and find out that it's worse than the item I can simply research from my dojo. I have essentially wasted almost - or over a week grinding. So, again, if I have this many options in the main game to get these rewards...why are they clogging up my drop table rewards in Railjack? When I farm for an item outside of Railjack, whether it be a weapon, a mod, a warframe, I know exactly what the stats are going to be, I know exactly what it is going to do, and there is no stat rng.

I can extrapolate my build possibilities and know whether or not this item is worth using for me or not. The new "warframe" weapons that I will not be able to put on my Railjack? They're not mission rewards. The Sentient weapon? Not a mission reward either. That's a quest item that you farm the parts for in Railjack. These items are indeed locked behind Railjack content, but they are not in the reward drop tables, which is the problem that I am talking about.

The missions in Railjack are all a different variation of the same game mode. "Oh but the missions in the main game are all variations of killing things" Yes, they are. You have 24 of these variations that have drastically different mechanics between them, and are not always mashed into one mission. If you do a spy mission, do you always have to do an excavation in the same mission? No. No you won't. If you do an Excavation mission, will you have to do a Hijack objective in the same mission? No. You won't. And when I say "In the same mission" I mean "before you go to extraction". 

 

There is no way, after looking at the entire picture, that you can tell me that having these items which I can get in a fraction of the time outside of Railjack, should be in the mission rewards for Railjack. The amount of time it takes to finish a single Railjack skirmish, combined with the absurd 2% drop chance of an item I can use in Railjack, combined with the fact that the item has stat rng, makes this absolutely horrendous no matter how you look at it.

[CopperBezel]

Well. That's a lot of bold. 

Some modes in Warframe are reliable farms, and some aren't. I don't see that this is different from the low chance of getting the item I want out of a relic, etc. I do understand that some rewards are indeed objectively better than others. Hell, riven slivers exist only as a consolation prize that you wouldn't realistically want to go about farming....

[Cerebrum123]

On 2019-12-23 at 2:58 PM, nicolajtheking2 said:

P.S   I'm one of the few people that uses a controller for warframe (through steam) and i would like to point out that the control scheme for archwing, as it is currently is almost unuseable, the "blink" function doesn't work on ALL archwings, the arch-melee weapons have become useless due to the lack of  "lock-on" that disappaered after the new control scheme was launched and all the arch-guns deal next-to-no damage to the new railjack enemies.

Rebind the controls to default in Warframe's menu, and it fixes the issue. Just isn't a a big Warframe update without controllers breaking sadly. 

[nslay]

Please make the Scrap/Convert-to-Dirac button for Railjack components more obvious please (it's more obvious for some components!).

Here's what the UI looks like without the Scrap button:

Spoiler

And here's what the UI looks like with the Scrap button. Where's Waldo?

Spoiler

Personally, I was looking for a "Scrap" button next to the "Equip" button in the same button/text style. Of course, that would also be a bad UI design decision, wouldn't it? Look how Microsoft puts a tiny "Kill Application Now" next to the tiny "Minimize" button! What could go wrong? Command Prompt also has "Close" immediately above"Edit" in the right-click menu! It boggles the mind! At least you thought of this by putting that tiny Dry Dock-camouflaged Dirac button far away from the "Equip" button! Kudos! But make it more obvious though.

Speaking of obscure UI elements, I had to pause the game to search the Wiki, forums and Internet only later to ask clan mates how to access the tactical panel. Apparently you press 'L'. How in the world is anyone supposed to know that? I got some of those cool Avionics that put out fires (Fire Suppression) but I didn't know how to use it!

 

Finally, here's a low priority almost non-issue texture problem I found. This Saturn Proxima texture looks like something from Quake 2 when I approach it.

First, here's the structure at a distance:

Spoiler

Here's the texture of the pipes up close:

Spoiler

Looks quite different than the rest of Warframe! Really does look like something from Quake 2... Maybe even better than Quake 2 graphics!

Anyway, I'm enjoying Railjack. Thanks for your hard work and have a nice vacation and holiday!

[(XBOX)Huggs93]

I have made it all the way to the vail and completed it ive gotten zero tacticle (besides the fire one and battle forge) and zero battle avionics serioulsy DE when i saw railjack first introduced where we would complete missions for upfrades and abilities for our ship to use i was a lot more interested because now i feel like im just playing and im not rewarded for the time i put it. Aperfect and pain full example is that when you squad up and get a party chat going and you want to find a galleon to get the weapon that drops from the commander. so you do a 30 minute mission and the blueprint doesnt even have a reasonable drop chance and thats IF you can get the ship to spawn since you cant just abondon mission via the nav. even if i do a mission where i assassinate a target i get to sell that stuff for credits.

so congrats DE you made a really fun game mode that isnt worth doing and ive completed it all and didnt even get the full expirience and first impressions are a big thing. granted maybe this stuff is fixed on pc but im still on update 27.0.5. like seriously?

also why doesnt the Nav fold down into the floor until the captain activates it? i get stuck on that and run into it so many times by just teleporting around. and another big thing if the captain is out of lives give the captain the ability to respawn after the mission completes or rank the next person in squad as captain. there is so much polish that needs to be done to make drop chances a viable thing as well as graphical stuff that i could varnish my house with it. And the fact that still to this day we cant do debug commands because low and behold /unstuck doesnt do anything for when your railjack falls through the map or anything like that.

its annoying hell i completed a mission with friends as host and was driving a grineer vessel guess what it despawned me cant die access gear wheel or anything so captian doesnt exist i guess so i quit the game so maybe my team gets resources. they get control of the ship but thats all that they got. dedicated servers need to be a thing you do for rail jack specifically. I'm sorry DE i love you but i just cant anymore im so frustrated. i looked so foward to this and I feel like i wasted my time. i feel like it was over hyped and that my expirience wasnt what it should have been. I cant even test out abilities get footge or anything. it just so damn infurriating and i dont want to come off like a jack ass but i care about this game because of what its done for me. hell if i worked for you guys i wouldnt care about holidays because of how much i love this game.

Merry christmas and happy new year guys i hope that this does eventually become god teir fun and that you can truly customise your rail jack. (since for some reason you cant have 3 level 3 battle avionics despit it being something you build. but for now im out. im sorry...

[Ham_Grenabe]

I've been having trouble mustering up the motivation to run or join more than one or two Railjack missions a day, and I've been thinking about why I'm having trouble wanting to do it. It's not that Xzibit put RNG in my RNG, or that harsh language might be more effective than the Railjack's weaponry, or any of that technical stuff. 

It's that I know I'm going to be bored.

The real heart of the problem I have with Railjack missions and associated activities is that it's too simple to be tactically interesting, but too complicated to be fast.

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by Ham_Grenabe

[Micro.Cat]

Battle avionics don't differentiate between the ones actively equipped and spare avionics in inventory in UI, I just deleted the best avionics i had on my ship when scrapping avionics for dirac

[2ndPersonPlural]

Please!  Give us more of this (and bugfixes)!

[2ndPersonPlural]

2 hours ago, THE-Micro-Cat said:

Battle avionics don't differentiate between the ones actively equipped and spare avionics in inventory in UI, I just deleted the best avionics i had on my ship when scrapping avionics for dirac

Absolutely a problem.  The UI in railjack needs more detail and more information in many cases.

Minimalism is in, but when I'm making statistical decisions and crunching numbers, I need maximalist design.

[CopperBezel]

Like I get that they needed to visually distinguish the avionics system from the mod system since it works slightly differently, but it's just entirely inscrutable. = /

Minimalism would be like, simple icons and numbers. Maybe some color to distinguish the mods more quickly. This isn't minimal design, it's just ... bad.

[Chroia]

Railjack uses mods. These mods require Avionics capacity from your Reactor.
The good reactors have a 2% drop chance.
But that's not terrible, you farm one and you're done, right? Nope. Reactors are RNG.
I even have a Vidar Mk3.
It gives 55 capacity, and this is unchangeable.
That's part one of this... utter joy.

Mods aren't underclock-able.
Some mods, usually desirable ones, have a 0.15% chance to drop from specific, sometimes restricted-spawn enemies.
And Railjack doesn't "even" have Forma so I can try to 'fix' the fit that way.

Sadly, I didn't put these things together before ranking up my good mods, and now I'm SoL wrt actually using them in any kind of semi-cohesive build.
I either use worse-base mods, or my super-duper mods with unranked+grid cheapo mods.

gg no re.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Chroia

[Sahansral]

The "Winged  X" avionics need more range. 100m restricts too much, buth archwing players and pilot.
I suggest 150 or even 200 meters.
Also Winged Storm and Winged Force bonuses are quite small (shield and damage).

 

The Avionics capacity should not be part of RNG.

Using ordonance feels too clumsy.

Same with the slingshot (but to a lesser degree, mostly to the lack of 360% turning, being dependant on the pilot).

Edited December 25, 2019 by Sahansral

[enemystand]

We need to have an option to customize enemy color markers to avoid losing track of them for example in the veil nodes the sky is red and searching for that one crewship that is far away in the map is really hard, personally i will color it cyan or yellow, but having an option to select the color ourselves will be nice and that way people with color blindness can select a color that they feel comfortable

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

I gave my thoughts back on page 23 after I had spent alot of time with the game.  I am on ps4 and am now 4-4-7-4.  Alot of my points still stand but I have become even more experienced in the game.  

-The 4 forge materials mostly only come from fighter loot.  Pustrels and carbides are very hard to find from map loot. Cubics are in gas clouds and wreck containers.  Forget the fourth resource.....  But this stuff does not show up in quantities that make using the forge to create more ammo very helpful.  If fact it can turn victory into defeat by not being able to craft more ammo in the forge.    

Every breakable on the map from rocks to containers should have a 1/4 chance of dropping forge resources.  To prevent abuse just tweak the forge a little bit...  Anything over the 200 cap does NOT go into your inventory.  Remove Refining from the forge all together or restrict refining to engineers.  Engineer intrinsic could allow you to refine X amount of times during a mission.  This would let us use missiles and artillery like we are suppose to, and ensure that we never lose a mission just because we ran out of revolite and cant find crap to make more.

On PC you are giving more resources as end of mission rewards...thats great.  But it doesnt do jack to address mid mission crafting.  And also end of mission rewards would still be needed if you took refinement and access loot away from the forge.  

-The thing I want to speak most on though is Railjack Damage/gameplay.   Was it your intention for us to sit behind rocks and hide from crewships/static gun batteries because they instantly kill shields and instantly put you into reactor failure repeatedly?  In saturn you introduce bombers that you cant even hide from, you just repeatedly get put in reactor failure until you take em out.   Or did you envision us flying around the map, trading punches with everything???  All I see randoms do is fly through the hailstorm of bullets and missiles not giving two craps about protecting their ship and just magically hoping for the engineer on board to deal with everything lol.  

Can we take a look at enemy crewships on the other hand.  These monsters can absorb almost any damage until you get on board and blow up their reactor.  I think Railjack's should work the EXACT same way.  I think the only way the enemy should be able to destroy our ship is with boarding parties and blowing up our engine/reactor..  External damage should cause engine failures that make the Railjack dead in the water(Left stick dead, right stick still ok).  

I think this would improve gameplay greatly.   Engineers could still repair the mobility of the railjack by repairing engines.  They would also be able to heal damage done to the engines on the inside from boarding parties.   To give them something to do when they are not doing that stuff is to give buffs the turrets, pilot, shields.  (No more putting out fires, or flxing holes or repairing electrical wiring.   

Or possibly forget all about external damage causing engine failures.  Just cause like minor debuffs to things until the engineer repairs them.  Turrets/pilot

To me we should by flying around the map, having a blast.  Not hiding behind rocks or losing because an idiot pilots parks us right next to a missile platform.  You wanted this built around squads and squad link and stuff.   But the way things play out with resources and damage,  it goes ALOT smoother solo or just one other person.  The above changes would make it alot more team friendly and not let rando's ruin your fun.

 

[CopperBezel]

4 hours ago, Sahansral said:

The "Winged  X" avionics need more range. 100m restricts too much, buth archwing players and pilot.
I suggest 150 or even 200 meters.
Also Winged Storm and Winged Force bonuses are quite small (shield and damage).

 

The Avionics capacity should not be part of RNG.

Using ordonance feels too clumsy.

Same with the slingshot (but to a lesser degree, mostly to the lack of 360% turning, being dependant on the pilot).

Yeah, for context here, the radius of Amesha's bubble before mods is 80m, while her slow is 400m. And that's almost always going to come with an Energy Amplifier for 160% range, or 190% with Rank 8 gunnery and her 4 going.

100m is barely outside of that wake bubble archwings can sit inside to get pulled along with the railjack.

[nicolajtheking2]

16 hours ago, Cerebrum123 said:

Rebind the controls to default in Warframe's menu, and it fixes the issue. Just isn't a a big Warframe update without controllers breaking sadly. 

I did that and now i can't use ANY abilities while in archwing, and it still didn't fix my shawzin 😢 ...

[Matzelito]

I love this Update, sure but there are a few things they have to change, get completely rid off or balanced newly to improve the whole things:

Railjack itself:

- give Shield arrays, engines, reactors and weapons upgradeable stats. Avionics Capacity should be upgradeable and shouldn't be RNG. Reactors from dojo should be a base stat + dropped reactor to make them any useful. i mean once you dropped a better MKlll reactor the sigma reactors from dojo are useless and not viable, purely wasted time and ressources. Same for those engines, shield arrays and weapons.

- Weapons should be moddable instead of getting them random bonusses, i would like to decide how my weapons are working. remove those integrated avionics for weapons and took them to the weapons ifself for example crit chance and turret damage. add more avionics for that like for modding warframe weapons. 

- Reactor: once you dropped and built a MKlll reactor it should be upgradeable with Dirac. Give them 10 ranks. for each rank up you'll get more flux and avionic capacity. Then you would farm to upgrade you reactor and not farm a better RNG reactor.

Sigma reactors should be just base stats, the maths would be like this: sigma reactor + dropped reactor + rank of dropped reactor

For example: Sigma MKlll, Vidar MKlll Rank 7/10 = 50+50+7*5= 135 avionic capacity 

                         Sigma MKI, Zekti MKII Rank 3/10 = 0+75+3*10= 105 flux capacity

The base Stats of every Reactor:

Sigma: MK1: 10    MK2: 30/50    MK3: 50/100     not upgradeable, that's just the base one

Zekti:   MK1: 5     MK2: 10/75     MK3: 15/150     for each upgrade 2 capacity/10 flux energy more

Lavan: MK1: 10   MK2: 20/100   MK3: 40/200      for each upgrade 4 cap/25 flux

Vidar:   MK1: 15   MK2: 35/150   MK3: 50/250   for each upgrade 5 cap/50flux

so if you maxed out your reactor it would be Sigma MK3 + Vidar MK3 Rank 10 with 150 Avionic capacity and 850 Flux energy.

 

For the costs of that upgrading with Dirac should be scaled based on the quality of each reactor and rank:

MK1: 50 Dirac for each upgrade cause that are the very first reactors you can drop. Total costs for upgrading to Rank 10: 500 Dirac

MK2:  10/20/40/80/160/320/640/1280/2560/5120 Dirac.                                              Total Costs for Rank 10: 10230 Dirac

MK3: 20/40/80/160/320/640/1280/2560/5120/10240 Dirac.                                         Total: Costs for Rank 10: 20470 Dirac

You can change the numbers for your liking but you get my idea hopefully.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Matzelito
adding more

[Cerebrum123]

46 minutes ago, nicolajtheking2 said:

I did that and now i can't use ANY abilities while in archwing, and it still didn't fix my shawzin 😢 ...

Ouch, sorry to here that. Definitely put in a ticket.

[nicolajtheking2]

1 minute ago, Cerebrum123 said:

Ouch, sorry to here that. Definitely put in a ticket.

I have multiple friends on PS4 and they have the same problems since railjack 😢

[Ham_Grenabe]

8 hours ago, Sahansral said:

The "Winged  X" avionics need more range. 100m restricts too much, buth archwing players and pilot.
I suggest 150 or even 200 meters.
Also Winged Storm and Winged Force bonuses are quite small (shield and damage).

I think those ranges need an extra zero - 1,500 to 2,000 meters is more appropriate to the Railjack environment. 

[thurmack]

Requesting updates to extractors so they can mine for the new RJ resources.

Maybe a new kind of extractor for mining deep space?

[Bathynomus]

14 hours ago, Chroia said:

Railjack uses mods. These mods require Avionics capacity from your Reactor.
The good reactors have a 2% drop chance.
But that's not terrible, you farm one and you're done, right? Nope. Reactors are RNG.
I even have a Vidar Mk3.
It gives 55 capacity, and this is unchangeable.
That's part one of this... utter joy.

Mods aren't underclock-able.
Some mods, usually desirable ones, have a 0.15% chance to drop from specific, sometimes restricted-spawn enemies.
And Railjack doesn't "even" have Forma so I can try to 'fix' the fit that way.

Sadly, I didn't put these things together before ranking up my good mods, and now I'm SoL wrt actually using them in any kind of semi-cohesive build.
I either use worse-base mods, or my super-duper mods with unranked+grid cheapo mods.

gg no re.

You think that's bad? So far I've found 2 mk.3 reactors. One had capacity of 13, the other 23. My current mk.2 has 29. Maybe it's just me, but mk.3 should be objectively better than any mk.2, and mk.2 better than mk.1 and the researchable untiered ones. After all, what's the point of having them in tiers, if they mean nothing?

[(PSN)ObsidianJackal_]

On PS4, the bumper buttons does nothing on the Configure Railjack menu; it should cycle through the railjack components.

Having the very same named Avionics duplicated across the groups, Vidar, Zetki, and Lavan, seems weird.

I want to be able to sort mods by drain.

I would like to be able to deploy solar rail spectors on my railjack and launch them as fighters or as ramsleds.

Solar rails should come back. They could be a tool used to open up hidden nodes for clans for x reason(s) and come under attack regularly by npc groups as optional defense missions.

More diverse crewships would be cool. Especially ones that have more than one firing mode and can deploy other smaller units.

I want survival node where there's nonstop enemies until the railjack extracts.

I want to be able to join a railjack raid mission with at least two a squads of railjacks.

I want a mod that reduces damage by x% while drifting.

Having dual stat mods would be great; mods that have a great upside with a drawback of another category:

Decrease shield recharge delay by x% and hull strength y;

Increase heat damage dealt by x and elemental damage received by y.

More battle mods:

Increase flight speed;

Increase boost meter recovery and decrease its drain;

Repair hull by x while decreasing shield recharge rate and increase delay by y;

Reduce tracking speed of enemies within x radius by y;

Increase heat buildup of target by x% for y seconds;

Become invisible for x seconds but decrease movement speed by y;

Deplete shields and temporarily boost weapon damage based on how much shields depleted;

Increase armor by x and decrease movement speed by y.

Edited December 26, 2019 by (PS4)ObsidianJackal_
Typo fixinf