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(PC) Empyrean: Railjack General Feedback Megathread


SilverBones
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The way engine speed works doesn't seem to add up.  You can see in this picture that the total speed is 591 m/s.  The engines equipped have +56.9 k/h.  The base speed is 307 m/s, and 56.9 k/h = 15.8 m/s, so the total speed should be 322.8 m/s — but it isn't, it's much higher than that.

Even if the game were ignoring the k/h - m/s conversion, and just adding 56.9 to the speed, it should only total 363.9, still much less than the actual result.

So then I thought, maybe they're doing the conversion backward?  If we assume that, then 56.9 becomes 204.8 instead of 15.8.  That still only comes to a total of 511.8, closer to the stats in the picture, but still not the same.

What is going on with these calculations?  What is our actual speed?  Is this just a UI glitch?

0d66799d10.jpg

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45 minutes ago, 2ndPersonPlural said:

The way engine speed works doesn't seem to add up.  You can see in this picture that the total speed is 591 m/s.  The engines equipped have +56.9 k/h.  The base speed is 307 m/s, and 56.9 k/h = 15.8 m/s, so the total speed should be 322.8 m/s — but it isn't, it's much higher than that.

Even if the game were ignoring the k/h - m/s conversion, and just adding 56.9 to the speed, it should only total 363.9, still much less than the actual result.

After some back-of-the-envelope math — I can't do anything exact without actually trying a bunch of different engines, because the stats on paper clearly have issues — it seems that the normal speed and while boosting of a perfect Lavan engine with + 0.6 boost multiplier will always be lower than the normal speed and speed while boosting of a perfect Vidar engine with "+60km/h".

The actual total speed you get from an engine with +60 km/h on the listed stats seems to be ~600 of whatever made-up units the UI calls "m/s", and the highest boost multiplier increase you can get with vidar engines is +0.2 afaik.  Lavan engines have the highest boost at +0.6 multiplier, and have a maximum speed increase of about 30 km/h.

I can't tell what the actual speed you will get from "+30 km/h" is, but interpolating between ~300 m/s with +0 km/h from no engines equipped and ~600 m/s with +60 km/h from perfect vidar engines suggests engines with +30 km/h should give ~450 m/s.

Base boost is 2.0.

600 * 2.2 = 1320, and 450 * 2.6 = 1170.

This means that the best Vidar engine has higher speed and higher boost speed than the best Lavan engine.

I hope I'm wrong; can someone correct me?

Edited by 2ndPersonPlural
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I had some feedback about three Avionics - Forward ArtilleryHyperstrike, and Warhead (Increases damage of the cannon, turrets, and ordnance respectively):

I think they should each be their own separate avionic socket.

My reasoning is that for Integrated Avionics to be a way to customize how you want your Railjack to function - making tradeoffs between speed, hull durability, shield durability, archwing support, gun platform, etc - then having 1/3 of your available customization dedicated just to making basic Railjack functionality scale to content you're in feels bad. Both Ordnance and especially the Cannon are most affected, as they are also limited by consumable ammo. And I think as it currently is, either core railjack functionality will get completely abandoned (like the Cannon), or any interesting choices (like resistance) will never get used.

Being their own slots still requires players to hunt for the different house versions, or improved version in the future. And if you wanted to say, maximize your turret capabilities, you'd still need to slot Predator / Section Density / Polar Coil (or Ripload for Ordnance), so there is still choice limitations on what the Railjack is good at.

Edited by kailaasa
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1 hour ago, kailaasa said:

I had some feedback about three Avionics - Forward ArtilleryHyperstrike, and Warhead (Increases damage of the cannon, turrets, and ordnance respectively):

I think they should each be their own separate avionic socket.

My reasoning is that for Integrated Avionics to be a way to customize how you want your Railjack to function - making tradeoffs between speed, hull durability, shield durability, archwing support, gun platform, etc - then having 1/3 of your available customization dedicated just to making basic Railjack functionality scale to content you're in feels bad. Both Ordnance and especially the Cannon are most affected, as they are also limited by consumable ammo. And I think as it currently is, either core railjack functionality will get completely abandoned (like the Cannon), or any interesting choices (like resistance) will never get used.

Being their own slots still requires players to hunt for the different house versions, or improved version in the future. And if you wanted to say, maximize your turret capabilities, you'd still need to slot Predator / Section Density / Polar Coil (or Ripload for Ordnance), so there is still choice limitations on what the Railjack is good at.

I think this is more of a scaling issue, powers and those weapons need to scale better than they do...
The Missile Swarm ability becomes useless really quick even at max power it barely scratches the paint on Veil fighters. It needs to scale off the reactor power or something like that. The same can be said for other powers and the Artillery. Setting those things to a fixed value and forgetting about doesn't yield good results, especially since there's no new "tools" to deal with the enemies, and if the only way to kill a crewship is to board it... Then it just makes things useless.
The content is fun, but like everything in warframe, the way the enemies scale vs how we scale is sketchy and ruins a lot of the content. (Not that you can't do the veil with a two man crew and clan researched MKIII parts, because you can). But there should be more content ahead, and i hope they tighten on these things before the new content makes them even more apparent.

Another issue is the enemy regeneration in the veil... I mean it's just annoying. The fighters don't die for a long while, and there's nothing you can do about it. This was a good oportunity for DE to stop repeating the mistakes of the past and give us more skill based play, with more skill and decision based enemies, but they're just doing the same thing as the past.
Enemies that scale in a way that makes the game frustrating, or that requires min-maxing your warframes (or Railjack) to deal (and then Pablo complains they need a nerf because they're the only solution to the problem DE created) and just throwing armies of carrion to be killed.
Crewships are nice change to this, but there needs to be more, and more variance, like other crewships or frigates that can't be boarded because of a shield or something, and you need to hit particular points on the ship (or just whack it with the artillery) to kill the shield and board it.
I just realized yesterday you can disable crewship engines ffs!

The dogfighting is fun, but a few more things could be done to make the game better. Like for example a type of Artillery that can be used to disable ships in it's path, and even stuff like missile arrays and such (to stop the railjack from being pounded while the away crew is dealing). Etc.
There's a lot that can be done, lets just hope that the devs come out of their break with fresh ideas and enthusiasm. There's a lot to be fixed in Railjack alone, and hopefully some new features to increase it's retention.

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Tried Mission No. 5, 6 and 7 yesterday. 5 was an Host Migration again. Lost all thanks to that. No. 6 the Revolite was gone. Mission failed. No. 7 was sucessful more or less. Yeah.

Starting at the UI:
Who greenlighted this?
Why cant I drag and drop avionics?
Why doesnt I see which are installed?
Why do I have to use "Tab" to see additional Information?
Why are there only 10 avionics shown which I could choose from without scrolling and clicking through a whole seperated menu?
I mean the UI in Warframe isnt best practice but this is the worst I've seen in the past 5 years from any developer with your size.

Starting the journey:
Why arent there any small helpful tooltips? Hell I know Warframe doesnt explain much and we have to rely to the Wiki, Reddit whatever. But with a whole new system and nothing there to read the first steps of RJ? Nothing whats expected from the roles? Nothing how the forge is working? Why do I have to rely on a squad? Why does my RJ feels so weak before getting the right parts. Was this curve really necessary? What about playing the gamemode for fun instead of feeling punished by you for not having the right setup or parts?

RNG:
Why is the range of the Parts so stupidly implemented? Why is it even possible that Mk3 parts are worse than Mk2 or even Mk1 thanks to RNG?
Why do we have Reactors with RNG Stats? Whats next? Do I get a RNG Mod Capacity attached to my Frame or Weapon if I use a Catalyst? I could live with Weapons RNG Stats. But essential Upgrades to the Ship? Who thought this would be an good idea?

Archwing:
Was is really necessary to #*!% us over with the stealth nerf? I mean Archwing wasnt fun even before. But now its an even more tedious gamemode.

Ressource Costs:
Cut it at least to 25% of the former value so that it doesnt hurt to get S#&$ RNG Stats. Right now I just waiting for enough ressources for the right Mk3 Part instead of playing and upgrading along the journey deeper into space. Was this intended gameplay design? What was the vision behind this. If there was any well-thougt-out of cause. Wheres the satisfaction to get an meaningful upgrade? Why cant we upgrade parts to the Stat Limit to deminish the Bad luck? See it as Bad Luck Protection.

Auto Wreckage? Just why?

Missiontypes:
Why only exterminate? Why cant I explore the space? Whats the purpose of this update if I cant fly around and explore the universe like in Elite, NMS etc.? Why is there still a star chart to choose from instead? Sorry to say this buts its boring and stale design even for Warframe.

The matchmaking at least for me is completely broken. I'm falling through maps e.g. in Onslaught because of Host Migration and so on since this update.

Right now this update feels even worse than the No Mans Sky Release Version. The state and plenty of bugs and missing QoL things makes me really sad and worrisame for my faith in you.

Sorry but I dont want to be rude to you but as this state as the update was shipped you didnt deserve any new years vacation till this is fixed 24/7 more or less. This whole update is a bloody mess. And I hope for you that you see this as well.

And no this game isnt Beta anymore. Isnt Indie anymore. And no Part 3 wont be the fix for this. So just stop with the excuses. It could be fun if it wasnt implemented in such a bad shape. And yes I deinstalled Warframe right now because it was so disappointing, dissatisfying, unrewarding and disrespecting my time with RNG which I've never feeled before in Warframe. I'm feeling so bad to write this harsh things to you but I'm so sad over what you've become with the last updates.

To get some positive feedback left for heading back to the office. Kudos to your Graphical Background Design Team. The Space itself looks gorgeous.

Edited by ValinorAtani
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So my comment's probably gonna be lost in the sea of feedback DE's receiving, but here are my general ideas on how to improve the state of Railjack.

Tactical Avionics don't get used. Make them bindable.
Certain avionics are too rare. Increase their drop rate. (Munitions Vortex and Void Hole)
MkIII Vidar and Lavan parts are too rare. Increase their drop rate.
RNG on RNG stacking is never a good thing especially when it affects performance. Tighten the number ranges on components to be towards the higher range. (All Vidar reactors should be between 75-100)
The pilot doesn't get enough intrinsics despite usually doing most of the fighting. Increase how many they get per fighter kill.
The only useful shields are Zetki shields that increase damage when broken. Buff shields or add more useful perks.
Photor don't do enough to be worth bringing in any situation. Increase their damage heavily or give them a massive range buff. Both if you're feeling generous.
Having to manually refill my payload after each mission is annoying. Add an auto-refill option.
Overflow resources from the forge should go directly into the player's inventory.
Public players aren't always the brightest. Prevent them from refining resources mid-mission, putting the ship in a very difficult situation if anything gets too low.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. 

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My god Archwing is so bad in Railjack. You can die instantly from shots you can't see, enemies are too fast to chase with short-range weapons and projectiles, and when you exit a ship your screen goes black for a second, which means you can get instantly killed as soon as you're in space.

This is why Amesha is mandatory. 

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Empyrean puts DE at the forefront of game production. You have done something truly unbelievable here and you are very clearly industry leaders. Congratulations. I wish you were getting the recognition you truly deserve.

Are there bugs? Sure. Tuning to be done? Yes. But don't let that knock you off of your incredible optimism and ambition. Also keep being you and don't let this go to your head, not that you ever have.

Warframe is awesome. Empyrean is awesome. Thank you!

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Can we relook at the scanning of the fighters and crew ships.  They are fast enough to outstrip us when we try to scan them, without lock on archmelee we can use the simaris augment we worked hard to get (that was the way i got most of the archwing scans already.

 

Bring back archmelee lock on to make scanning easier, reduce the scanning of ships to only needing 1, or change it so we just get the ship scans after seeing one or something. 

 

My codex completion drive is pained by the zippy little fighters

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Current loot collection range essentially discourages cooperating on board the Railjack and takes you out of the game completely.

Problem:

  • The amount of times I've seen people just go into archwing and fly around 1-2km away blowing up ships and ensuring that people on the Railjack get most likely none of the loot is insane. It's pretty damn selfish and annoying, but I can understand why people do it. They want to maximise the amount of stuff they get, who doesn't?

 

  • I've found myself increasingly not focusing on what's happening and the cool space battle in favour of looking to see where the ship I just killed blew up, then having to squint to see what resource they dropped (As the resources are so damn hard to see). This is boring, tedious and annoying. I want to be able to move onto the next ship and not linger.

 

  • Jetting over to where a ship blew up (Not where it was killed, that would be too close to you) usually costs a decent amount of boost and will most likely get you hit several times. This alone would cause a lot of loss of loot during those fights where there are about 10-15 fighters around you because you simply cannot afford the boost to or pay attention to where that one ship died. That and it's not fun. We're not here to jump over to where things just died, it's not as easy or quick as it is in normal Warframe. 

Solution:

Either

  • If someone gets some loot, everyone else in the party gets it. That might also add an archwing job of flying around collecting loot. Add an increased suction range as well, even after the buff it feels minuscule.

Or

  • Unlimited suction range. This is probably the simplest solution, and ensures everyone gets loot and doesn't miss out on anything valuable. This would also make progress faster as you'd be getting more things to scrap/use.  In my opinion this would be the most fun solution and feel more like normal Warframe where you're constantly bombarded with small bits of loot.

 

I've seen a few people suggest having loot pings, but I don't really think this is a good idea as you're still having to fly about the place with a Railjack and given that we're in space, we're talking large boring distances. However, if you were to use my first solution, then archwings would have a very important role collecting all the fallen loot as the battle progressed

 

Apart from that and all the various blackscreens Railjack's damn good. But the looting system is really killing it for me and a lot of other people I'd imagine.

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Fix the RNG!

I had all week last week to grind the Empyrean content, which I did with my buds, and we had a blast. Now our ships are fairly well built and we're starting to feel the grind set in, some more than others, especially me today since while I was out getting groceries and being a responsible adult for once in over a week, they all got Predator and Fire Phoenix, two avionicss we were grinding for all week last week, and they just happened to get it... while I was out. This has me feeling pretty burnt. The RNG is bad enough without the disconnects, lack of crew ship spawns, and myriad other issues and glitches, we hardly get enough of each enemy type per mission to warrant the 0.101% drop chance that a lot of the more desirable avionics get. Then there's my buddy who still can't get ahold of  a Vidar or Zetki Bulkhead avionic to save his life, while several of us, myself included, have a Zetki Bulkhead and are now looking at over 6000 health, but not enough avionics capacity. Now we're looking for a Vidar bulkhead (or whichever is the 4 slot avionic) and they just WILL NOT DROP. Meanwhile we keep getting these utterly worthless Archwing avionics that no one in their right mind will use until the Archwings get a SERIOUS overhaul, because nothing, not even the Amesha if you miss your window to recast your powers and a few missiles slip through, can save you from being 1-shotted in the Railjack missions.

Essentially, the RNG chances for rare (or rather essential/needed) avionics need to come WAY up. Solid digits, no more of these fractions of a percent. THIS IS NOT BLACK DESERT. Give us at least a solid, whole percent drop chance greater than or at the ABSOLUTE VERY LEAST 1%. Even with the Cryophon, you can't kill anything in Empyrean at a fast enough rate to warrant chances of roughly 1 in 1000 for a specific enemy type, especially when said enemy might only spawn 10 times per mission. This is turning into how Archwing dropped when it first launched, you had to grind it to play it, it was a massive slog, and it just wasn't fun. Grinding for hours on end just to get heaps of garbage, even after putting in a solid 10+ hours a day for an entire week, is absolutely not worth it.

Speaking of garbage, at least a third of what does get dropped by enemies gets left behind because nobody can see the faintly glowing blue, yellow, or purple drops when they're far away and surrounded by space clutter. There needs to be a better system in place, drops should be marked, especially if they're avionics or components/armaments, just because they hardly ever drop, I'm sure colorblind players have an even worse time seeing their loot since you can't even make out the shapes until you're within vacuuming distance. There should also be a dropped items recovery system where any Avionics and Components get sent to your inbox.

Speaking of not being able to see, there has got to be a better method for marking enemies than just " diamond" and "diamond with curves." I suggested it on another post, but I think Tenno-fied playing cards house symbols would be perfect for distinguishing what enemies are where. Diamonds for general trash enemies, Clubs for outriders, Hearts for crew ships (because of that damn healing bubble!), and Spades for elite enemy types and the inevitable Kuva/Corpus/Infested Lich (or just personal rival ace pilot from INSERT ENEMY FACTION HERE).

Lastly, GLITCHES! Two biggest and most game breaking glitches: Not enough crew ships, and infinite healing. Crew ships seem to spawn in depending on A) how many crew ships are still up and B) how many fighters you've destroyed. I have CONSISTENTLY been in missions where we've failed because we killed all the fighters before we were even halfway through the crews ships. I swear it seems like their spawn cycles are related to each other, and it seems the only safe way to proceed is by prioritizing the crew ships above all else. If you're at 2/6 crew ships, and you've already killed 56/90 fighters, expect to abort the mission/restart the game. As for that accursed healing bubble, without the Cryophon, enemies become almost impossible to kill. With the Cryophon it's entirely impossible to destroy the healing bubble because it functions just like Nulifier bubbles and requires something with a high rate of fire to be dumped into it.



TL:DR: RNG is unreasonable for how long missions take to complete and how few required enemies spawn to farm Please stop making drop chances below 1%, whole-number percent chances from now on, this grind is getting unbearable. Archwing avionics shouldn't even exist until Archwing is actually viable, or at least severely reduce their drop chances so we can find something else for once. Improve visibility of drops, at least mark Avionics and Components so we can see exactly where they are/Implement a loot recovery system for your inbox for Avionics and Components. Fix the crew ship spawns and infinite healing bubble nightmare you've created!

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3 hours ago, CLOUD3877 said:

If someone gets some loot, everyone else in the party gets it. That might also add an archwing job of flying around collecting loot. 

That's already the case for anything picked up in archwing or by the railjack. It's intended to be the case for everything; right now, things picked up by your warframe aren't shared, with the exception of the Quellor and Pennant blueprints, which were singled out to share in a quick fix before the team went to holiday. That's why when groups decide to go looting after completing a mission, you'll generally have an archwing or two out shooting rocks. At present, people who do away missions still get more loot (and affinity) due to chests and other drops within bases or crewships, which means they'll get more Railjack resources, though not parts and avionics since those drop exclusively in space.

Edited by CopperBezel
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- Loot indicator/ unlimited vacuum range/larger drops/missed drops gets inboxed - atleast for rare mods and wreckage and no purple and gold glowing orbs don't work with the skybox. Especially in saturn and veil. Earth you can get by but it's near impossible to see mod drops in saturn and both mod and wreckage drop in veil. This was not well thought out.

- Parts that have 2% drop chance should not have such wide rng stat range. Assign fixed base stats for each house and then add a layer of bonus rng stat. Better yet, remove rng stats completely and make houses have perks with pros/cons. Example : Low shield cap/ longer recharge delay but releases an emp pulse on depletion/ full charge. Nothing mandatory or game breaking but quirky. That was the intention, right ?

- Add wreckage/clantech for forward artillery. Useless in veil without using rhino buff. Surely you guys didn't plan on making specific frames viable for railjack content ?

- Make other weaponry types viable. Currently pulsars and photors are useless. Pulsars have a use case where you can use them to turtle with low hp railjack, other than that no one's using them.

- Need more mission types. Currently it's just exterminate + base hack/exterminate (essentially). Give us space defense, more types of base objective. Maybe stealth missions where we need to use asteroid clusters/wreckage to evade detection. Might be interesting to see people use fast stealth builds for railjack.

You guys have built an additional layer of gameplay on top of the existing one that is very different functionally. That's a massive achievement. Kudos to you guys. But you gotta put in the polish for this to be worth it in the long run. Take pride in what you deliver.
 

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3 hours ago, shadowstormr said:


- Make other weaponry types viable. Currently pulsars and photors are useless. Pulsars have a use case where you can use them to turtle with low hp railjack, other than that no one's using them.

The pulsar/photor thing is interesting because despite being hitscan, I find they're actually way harder to hit with. Leading the target with the other weapons actually feels very instinctive and natural, even with the fighters being insanely maneuverable -- but trying to keep, for instance, a photor on a stupid wiggling fighter is the height of frustration. 

Photors could be major players if they took, say, two to three contacts to down an appropriate level fighter (with appropriate downsides like major heat build up or whatever) but beam weapons look cool, and don't really work in the Railjack context. Frankly, that kind of weapon should be an anti-capital ship weapon, where you can hold it on a target for a while. 

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11 hours ago, zer0maz said:

Empyrean puts DE at the forefront of game production. You have done something truly unbelievable here and you are very clearly industry leaders. Congratulations. I wish you were getting the recognition you truly deserve.

Are there bugs? Sure. Tuning to be done? Yes. But don't let that knock you off of your incredible optimism and ambition. Also keep being you and don't let this go to your head, not that you ever have.

Warframe is awesome. Empyrean is awesome. Thank you!

I swear you are being sarcastic. And being really clever about it too.

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From my solo earth hijacking run, I found out crewships you hijacked will disappear once the mission considered as completed which costs you their loot. Hijacked crewships should stay after you finish the mission and let us destroy it later because I found 2 wreckage from them and lost 3 crewships for potential drop.

In short, hijacked crewship should stay even after you complete the mission

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