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(PC) Empyrean: Railjack General Feedback Megathread

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20 minutes ago, Descent-of-Damocles said:

gonna have to downvote you there bud. I feel like the RNG does in fact make your railjack feel less generic and more "your" railjack. The problem was always the range being too diverse, making the items feel either "your" reactor vs "225" dirac

RNG stats dont make your ship any more unique than anyone's else. RNG have no place in equipment. This is not Path of Exile or Diablo.

Shields and Engines having random stats its the same as if Warframe parts had "+15% shields" or "+.50 move speed" tied to them.
Reactors having RNG stats is the same as if using a Catalyst or a Reactor gave from +1 to +30 mod capacity to your stuff, that also controlled your base energy.
Turrets having RNG stats is the same as if a weapon blueprint had a "+10% firerate" or "+40% damage" on them.

RNG rolls should stop at Rivens. Lich weapons only had RNG stats so people would keep hunting them, otherwise any sane player would stop at one or two, because its a terrible, boring and broken chore of an unfinished mechanic.

Edited by MobyTheDuck
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Since I'm here, and nobody is ever going to read this either, I would like to point out a few design issues with easy fixes:

  1. that the Seeker Volley is capped at MK1 level of performance and should scale with your equipped armament.
  2. Dome gun pretty much requires a 5th person, and the pilot can't seem to trigger it despite it facing the same direction, breaking the flow of gameplay. Pilot should get the option to use it similarly to an Ultimate. There really shouldn't be a dedicated seat that can only fire it. It did look cool in the Tennocon demo, but you guys cheated with a stationary target.
  3. Side gunners shouldn't be able to use the battle avionics. Really annoying to have people be touching your radio. Armaments are fine though
  4. Rank 10 Pilot does 2000 dmg... great except touching the railjack's hitbox already instant kills fighter, can we boost the recharge rate instead?
  5. Drifting perks (Gunner 9), are unusable because at the speed you're going, you can hit anything. They really should be active all the time for being a rank 9 ability
  6. Rank 5 Pilot's dashing effect often makes players overshoot their desired destination and cannot be opted out of. Maybe turn this to boost speed multilpier? Seems the engine numbers barely affect boost speed at the moment
  7. Rank 10 Tactical still makes no sense as you really dont need to teleport anywhere that someone is already at. Maybe useful when playing sentient cache split farm, but I dont believe this is the intended design. Maybe an option to generate checkpoints on a mission would be nice, like place a marker where you can spawn separately from omni.
  8. Gunner 10 should just be outright aim lock. Everyone with a programmable mouse already has a macro for it, and it's already not very accurate either. It doesnt work with hitscan weapons at all either.
  9. Any movement from the pilot seat "WASD" would interfere with projectiles offsetting to the opposite direction. This is good for the Gunner 10 Macro Aimlock as you use it to offset the inaccuracy, but I don't believe either "features" are intended.
Edited by Descent-of-Damocles
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2 hours ago, Voltage said:

Thank you for these welcome changes.

However, why do we still continue on this trend of releasing content with improper content pacing on launch only to undermine and sometimes trivialize it later? Not everyone kept a Vidar Reactor with a low Avionics capacity roll with a limited inventory of just 30 wreckage capacity. This terrible trend of releasing half-baked content pacing has happened to every ... single ... major update of 2019. It's become such a consistent trend it can be predicted at this point. It's been 33 days now since Empyrean has launched to PC. I understand nothing can release with close to perfection in terms what feels right for grind in this game, but was this not considered since TennoCon 2018 up to now? Was Riven Mods feedback considered when introducing wreckage in the state it was in for the last month?

How long will we have to wait for the Sentient Anomaly rare container rewards to be easier too? Will Intrinsics become easy like Focus as well? I know Intrinsics  for sure will only get easier to obtain over time because I have been around since Focus was added in 2015. We had no cap, stealth and Draco were overpowered for Affinity, people progressed too far way too fast, and we were slowed down. Months and years later, the Focus grind is then withered down substantially. This sounds way too similar to how Intrinsics have gone so far, and I presume the same pattern will repeat itself. There is also another pattern between the Acolytes (before "Unidentified Item" tags) and the Sentient Anomaly farming strategy. Both Acolytes and Sentient Anomalies are time limited "events". Both Acolytes and Sentient Anomalies have goods behind RNG. Both occasions included this farming method of aborting when the good loot doesn't drop. So why fix Acolytes 4 years ago but launch the Sentient Anomaly prone to the same abuse?

I ask all these questions as a passionate player who wants to feel good about future updates and hotfixes, not cursing myself for spending time on the launch of an update only to be burned later. I understand this comment is quite negative towards these changes that are going to be a large buff for most players, but I just want to point out the fact this has happened throughout all of last year and continues into 2020. I imagine at this point it is designed to be this way, but it just doesn't feel right to be handed this little polish on arguably one of the most important parts of gameplay.

Totally agreed with you mate. I hope we will get what we have promised as railjack content cause this is not they have been showned to use for nearly 1.5 years

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50 minutes ago, Cash4Cookies said:

when are shields and engines getting the same treatment?

I did some math elsewhere regarding engine viability. I'd like to share my thoughts here:

(Optimal roll speed/boost calculations)

Lavan = 457 x 2.6 (150 + 307)  (.6 + 2.0)
Vidar = 607 x 2.2 (300 + 307)  (.2 + 2.0)
Zekti = 507 x 2.3  (200 + 307)  (.3 + 2.0)

Adjusted for Lavan Avionics values:

Lavan: 572.621 x 3.6296 = 2078.4
Vidar : 760.571 x 3.0712 = 2335.9
Zetki: 635.271 x 3.2108 = 2039.7

So Vidar can potentially be roughly 11% faster than its next-leading competitor under an optimal roll while boosting. However, the Lavan perk +20% Engine Speed while shields are down results in the following values under an optimal roll: 2494.1 -- which is peanuts, really.

HOWEVER: 

The Vidar engines "+50% boost speed while shield depleted", on the most optimal roll with a Lavan avionic, would raise the boost to 4.6068 and altogether raise speed to 3503.8.

3503.8!!

Also, Flow Burn (tactical avionic): 30% speed increase (max), 240 cooldown (x 0.6 = 144 sec), 13 Avionics drain. A mere 10 seconds of 30% increased speed once every two-and-a-half minutes at a whopping 13 Avionics drain just feels insulting given the sheer opportunity cost. This can only ever be viable if speed is the only metric you're building for, and even then the perk is short-lived. On a min-maxed Vidar while benefiting from the "depleted" buff above, it can result in a whopping 4554.94 maximum speed for the split second your shields are down.
 

Edited by Exodess

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5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Any existing gear you have will simply be re-rolled for Avionics capacity[...]

Could we get a clarification on what reactors this applies to exactly?

I mean, only built / repaired reactors, or will the stats be re-rolled on our owned reactor wreckage as well?

Edited by Aldrr
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Isn't that TOO MUCH less RNG? Smth around 25 range capacity would fit very well. We already have a lot of resources changes: x2 chances for MK 3 parts as mission rewards, 80% return from scraping, x2 Asterite drops, 750 Titanium as reward from mission, etc. No point in building MK 1 - 2 weapons / components at all. Also, maybe mix in some of our usual resources? Such as Alloy Plates, Orokin Cores, Rubedo?

Edited by Muxailo
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apoc weapon family needs increased range, desperately. they're the only ones still sitting at 500-1000, and being the only RJ armaments that deal particle damage is absolutely not a worthwhile tradeoff for that. i would suggest tripling it, 1500-3000 puts it at slightly less than carcinnox as a balance for its significantly increased power

8e4f1d76cf09c82c343cceb34722cc68ad077263

comparison with cryophon. fix please

Edited by spiralmenace

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5 hours ago, kyori said:

I have a 99, unless you are giving 100, else please ignore my account because I don't want a lower 90s which will be a nerf + troll from you guys.

*Also, my total avionic capacity should be 129 but in-game it is 128, 1 lesser than what it should be. Why?

plz read before commenting irrelevant things that are not happening...

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I'm curious to see how my 83 100, 93 90 and 94 80 Vidar reactor will be rerolled.

I really hope you will make something about vidar reactor dropped before this change that were up to 90 avionics.

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IMHO The design of the usage of the artillery is poorly designed. The way it should have been designed is the artillery function should be slaved to the pilot by a simple keybind to switch between using the nose guns and using the artillery somewhat like going between primary weapon and melee. It's impractical to have anyone switch from any area to the artillery spot especially considering how often it is used. The other plus is you can pilot the ship and get a more accurate shot, instead of lining up the shot then switch to the artillery seat only to see the crew ship has moved out of view.

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6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is a broad post that touches on something that appears throughout the 40 pages here. Simplified sentiment:  'Avionics Capacity limitations are too punishing'. This week's Hotfix will speak specifically to that with global buffs for all Reactor types found in the wild. Any existing gear you have will simply be re-rolled for Avionics capacity, which will automatically be a buff in all cases (note: the Vidar III which has just compressed its top-end entirely to not have the 30-100 range, it's now 90-100, but it will not give you lower rolls if you had one in the 90-100 range before this change). 

The coming number changes:

- Lavan Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 20 to 30 (from 10 to 20)
- Lavan Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 50 to 60 (from 10 to 40)
- Lavan Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 80 to 90 (from 20 to 70)
- Vidar Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 30 to 40 (from 10 to 25)
- Vidar Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 60 to 70 (from 20 to 50)
- Vidar Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 90 to 100 (from 30 to 100)
- Zetki Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 10 to 20 (from 5 to 10)
- Zetki Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 40 to 50 (from 5 to 30)
- Zetki Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 70 to 80 (from 10 to 50)

Just dropping this note here so folks are prepared for this specific change as we work on more major fixes and changes! 

While this is a nice change (the overlap of stat rolls from different rarities was awful), when you narrow the RNG stat ranges that much you just have to start wondering why you're bothering to keep them at all on reactors. Like, if I have a 90 capacity reactor vs. a 100, is there a significant change at all in what I feel or experience in the mode? If I get a 100 after having a 90 am I going to feel that I got an upgrade? If not, what's the point of having the stat range at all anymore? Are there even enough battle or tactical avionics I'd care about that it would matter to me that I had to drop one? 

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double posted for some reason, can't delete it myself

Edited by Borg1611

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6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Any existing gear you have will simply be re-rolled for Avionics capacity, which will automatically be a buff in all cases (note: the Vidar III which has just compressed its top-end entirely to not have the 30-100 range, it's now 90-100, but it will not give you lower rolls if you had one in the 90-100 range before this change). 

I am slightly worried about what "re-roll" implies in this post. I thought (because of circumstances relating to the rounding errors) that a change like this would simply make the components "scale up". For example I have a 50 Avionics Capacity Zekti Reactor MK III reactor, shouldn't that be a guaranteed 80 Avionics Capacity with this change?

Similarly I got a 99 Avionics Capacity Vidar Reactor MK III. It is effectively a top 1.5% roll, but if it kept its 99 Avionics Capacity after this change it would be "demoted" to a top 10% roll.

I'm not going to complain if this leads to my Vidar Reactor MK III getting "demoted", I got very lucky with that roll after all. But it would be sad to see my "top tier" Zetki Reactor that I've been saving for if it got a buff get rolled down to a lower value.

I'm still excited about these changes, Railjack is a ton of fun!

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That's a good question. Maybe they're just really committed to the new RNG thing. Also, 10 points at the high end of the scale isn't really that big a deal; but 10 points in the midrange reactors might be more significant.

 

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4 minutes ago, DaeCatt said:

I am slightly worried about what "re-roll" implies in this post. I thought (because of circumstances relating to the rounding errors) that a change like this would simply make the components "scale up". For example I have a 50 Avionics Capacity Zekti Reactor MK III reactor, shouldn't that be a guaranteed 80 Avionics Capacity with this change?

Similarly I got a 99 Avionics Capacity Vidar Reactor MK III. It is effectively a top 1.5% roll, but if it kept its 99 Avionics Capacity after this change it would be "demoted" to a top 10% roll.

I'm not going to complain if this leads to my Vidar Reactor MK III getting "demoted", I got very lucky with that roll after all. But it would be sad to see my "top tier" Zetki Reactor that I've been saving for if it got a buff get rolled down to a lower value.

I'm still excited about these changes, Railjack is a ton of fun!

As far as I can tell, it means that if it falls into the new range, it'll be left alone. If it falls outside the new range, it'll be rerolled to be within that range. So your 50 cap Zetki should reroll to something between +70-80, but your Vidar should be unchanged. But no, they're not going to max out the rolls on anything. If it already qualifies, it doesn't change.

Edited by Ham_Grenabe

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I said this before and i'll say it again this "The Division" style of multiples of the same item but with differing stats system is not Warframe. What it does is cause even more grind, and especially with such low chance of getting the item to begin with and then when you do get the item the stats end up being garbage, which requires you to grind away again in hopes of getting that item but with better stats.This type of system drove a lot of people away from The Division until they raised the drop chance so enormously high to make the only loot system they had work.

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7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is a broad post that touches on something that appears throughout the 40 pages here. Simplified sentiment:  'Avionics Capacity limitations are too punishing'. This week's Hotfix will speak specifically to that with global buffs for all Reactor types found in the wild. Any existing gear you have will simply be re-rolled for Avionics capacity, which will automatically be a buff in all cases (note: the Vidar III which has just compressed its top-end entirely to not have the 30-100 range, it's now 90-100, but it will not give you lower rolls if you had one in the 90-100 range before this change). 

The coming number changes:

- Lavan Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 20 to 30 (from 10 to 20)
- Lavan Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 50 to 60 (from 10 to 40)
- Lavan Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 80 to 90 (from 20 to 70)
- Vidar Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 30 to 40 (from 10 to 25)
- Vidar Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 60 to 70 (from 20 to 50)
- Vidar Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 90 to 100 (from 30 to 100)
- Zetki Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 10 to 20 (from 5 to 10)
- Zetki Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 40 to 50 (from 5 to 30)
- Zetki Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 70 to 80 (from 10 to 50)

Just dropping this note here so folks are prepared for this specific change as we work on more major fixes and changes! 

OK

Any lessons learned?

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So what’s the point of leaving small RNG values here if you know it’s despite’s by players.

You just can’t discard it completely to commit its failure, don’t it?

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6 hours ago, Jaclyn said:

Now how about making Tenebrous Ephemera a reward for purging 25(or 50) Sentient ships, like they were originally pitched to be a reward not a luck based dice roll

Would prefer the Ephemera to be this way tbh

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1 hour ago, dEjAvU5566 said:

So what’s the point of leaving small RNG values here if you know it’s despite’s by players.

You just can’t discard it completely to commit its failure, don’t it?

The point is to try satisfy the needs/wants of different types of players.

 

One argument for rng stats is that it gives players - who would otherwise blast through a progression system very fast - something to work on. Some players *like* always having something to work on, however small. These are the "rewards and grind are content" players.

The issue is that rng comes with various drawbacks. It disconnects effort from reward. It provides no "light at the end of the tunnel", you can never tell how far away from your goal you are. It adds another dimension (luck, on top of skill, time, effort, etc) that increases variance in outcomes (making it harder to satisfy everyone). It increases the grind for some (unlucky) people while decreasing/not affecting the grind for (lucky) others. It does this irrespctive of whether they're casual or hardcore. Too much rng, too broad a range, and (roughly speaking, don't take the casual/hardcore labels too seriously):

  1. Some hardcore players will be lucky, blast through a low level of grind, and be left with nothing to do.
  2. Some casual players will be lucky and face a low level of grind that they can overcome.
  3. Some hardcore players will be unlucky and face a massive grind, but one they (probably) have playtime to overcome.
  4. Some casual players will be unlucky and face a massive grind that they have no hope of overcoming.

The point of keeping the rng while narrowing its range is really to try address that last group (4). Narrowing the range available and ensuring there are high returns early on with diminishing returns the more you play, means that whether casual players are lucky or unlucky, it won't take them too long to get something that's satisfactory and then move on. However, *some* (group 3) of the hardcore players aiming for that perfect roll will be kept going. Some (group 1) of course will be "lucky" and still end up bored with nothing to do - rng is rng, whose needs/wants are addressed is random :-P.

 

The other argument is that some players like to have gear that distinguishes them from other players. I disagree that rng stats personalise gear in any real sense - it's completely superficial - but I do agree that some players have a need to feel unique in a way that can't easily be copied. Rng limits copying, while narrowing its range will hopefully still scratch that itch for the players who need that itch scratched :-P.

Edited by schilds

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8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is a broad post that touches on something that appears throughout the 40 pages here. Simplified sentiment:  'Avionics Capacity limitations are too punishing'. This week's Hotfix will speak specifically to that with global buffs for all Reactor types found in the wild. Any existing gear you have will simply be re-rolled for Avionics capacity, which will automatically be a buff in all cases (note: the Vidar III which has just compressed its top-end entirely to not have the 30-100 range, it's now 90-100, but it will not give you lower rolls if you had one in the 90-100 range before this change). 

The coming number changes:

- Lavan Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 20 to 30 (from 10 to 20)
- Lavan Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 50 to 60 (from 10 to 40)
- Lavan Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 80 to 90 (from 20 to 70)
- Vidar Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 30 to 40 (from 10 to 25)
- Vidar Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 60 to 70 (from 20 to 50)
- Vidar Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 90 to 100 (from 30 to 100)
- Zetki Reactor Mk I: Avionic Capacity now 10 to 20 (from 5 to 10)
- Zetki Reactor Mk II: Avionic Capacity now 40 to 50 (from 5 to 30)
- Zetki Reactor Mk III: Avionic Capacity now 70 to 80 (from 10 to 50)

Just dropping this note here so folks are prepared for this specific change as we work on more major fixes and changes! 

That is... CONSIDERABLY better.

Thank you!

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The last couple of perks on the intrinsic trees should be kept minor. That way sensible people can look at them and go "yep, no hurry", while people who can't help but want every little perk can have fun grinding them out. That's me, btw, I like having every little perk :-P.

The best perks should balance grind/reward in the middle somewhere.

People who want to "balance" the game with a huge grind and massive rewards for massive grind so that they can feel "elite" (because they know most people will never get there) can, quite frankly, be left to suffer. DE shouldn't be trying to satisfy them. They're insatiable. They're not happy unless they can measure themselves by the distance they are from other people. They can't be made happy without everyone else being made miserable.

Edited by schilds

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5 hours ago, Emperrier said:

They already said there's going to be a respec when Command launches, this isn't preventing you from maxing it on release, just from being 10/10/10/10/10 on day one

so, exactly preventing people from preparing themselves. that's artificial limitation, to force you to grind only once it comes. imagine if they would prevent you from building up forma, or farming ressources, until they release a new object that needs it. that's bullS#&$, right? Yes, that's bullS#&$. and that's scummy. people should be able to prepare themselves if they want to.

Also, who bets on absolutely no words on vacuum range, as DE as been proving to have serious problems with this? 😄

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8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Any existing gear you have will simply be re-rolled for Avionics capacity, which will automatically be a buff in all cases
 

Thank god this affects existing reactors, I knew it was a good idea to hang on to at least one of the vidar mk3 reactors i have gotten, i tried telling other people to do the same but some didn’t think any changes to reactors avionics would be retroactive so just scrapped the ones they got. 

My only regret is that i did scrap the other 2 i got so that means less chances at getting higher rolls when the hotfix hits but 1 is better than none.

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