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[DE]Bear

(PC) Empyrean: Railjack Matchmaking Feedback Megathread

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Only extraction options are whenever the host decides to let you leave, or you abort the mission and lose your loot. Epic.

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Yadda yadda only host can end mission. Had it annoy me also.

Suggestion: Interacting with the console gives a "head to extraction" message, similar to when people enter the extraction area on survival. Interacting again toggles the "in extraction" off. THough I'd up the timer to a minute, because people can be wherever in the map. That way even newbies have enough time to join the extracting crew.

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Gday! An ongoing issue with matchmaking for general pugs is the host going afk or wants to farm for stuff for 20+ minutes. This means the rest of the squad will not receive any of the drops beyond the skirmish rewards if they don't stay and opt to abort which is totally unfair to other players. Any regular mission has a time limit once 2 or more people are on the extract or you may opt out of endless missions without penalty. I was just in a mission that I had to abort out of because the host said 'brb' and went afk for 30min. That is ridiculously obnoxious on many levels to your fellow players. I realize that I could attempt to host my own railjack mission but some of us aren't decked out enough with our RJ's to do so or people with lag/connectivity issues who cannot host effectively. I sincerely hope this is something that will be looked into and tweaked in the near future.

That said I am truly having a blast with railjack and looking forward to the new war. Thank you 8o)

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Another serious issue is players joining a mission completing one objective without the rest of the squad (commanders, anomaly, etc) and then leaving so they can "farm" rare drops at the expense of the rest of the team and cheat player that get pulled into that session after they have left of any chance at the drops from those objectives. It is not fair to the people left behind or the players that join looking for a specific objective just to find that session had it completed before they joined by players that left (no idea on whether they get to keep things like the blueprint or weapon parts when they are doing that).

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Since I keep getting placed into squads that are 99% complete with their objectives and all I end up getting to do is twiddle my thumbs...would be nice if we get a large/full portion of the rewards/intrinsics that the rest of the squad gets... 'Cuz y'know...we don't get a choice about what squad we get dumped into and it's usually a waste of time since we end up having the load time to enter, then the few (or many depending on if they harvest the whole map for resources) minutes while they loot and then extraction...or aborting mission which also takes time and increases fail count... Or, alternatively, make the cutoff for a RJ's mission objective being completed a lot earlier.

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17 hours ago, CedarDpg said:

Since I keep getting placed into squads that are 99% complete with their objectives and all I end up getting to do is twiddle my thumbs...would be nice if we get a large/full portion of the rewards/intrinsics that the rest of the squad gets... 'Cuz y'know...we don't get a choice about what squad we get dumped into and it's usually a waste of time since we end up having the load time to enter, then the few (or many depending on if they harvest the whole map for resources) minutes while they loot and then extraction...or aborting mission which also takes time and increases fail count... Or, alternatively, make the cutoff for a RJ's mission objective being completed a lot earlier.

i said this a long time ago but, i think its high time we got some kind of lobby for matchmaking.

clicking any nodes pulls up a lobby window showing all the available matches and if they had just started are in the middle or ending. something to this nature.

i would love to see the slow time, extract or stay you see on defense, after mission complete.

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20 hours ago, Kalltoo said:

Gday! An ongoing issue with matchmaking for general pugs is the host going afk or wants to farm for stuff for 20+ minutes. This means the rest of the squad will not receive any of the drops beyond the skirmish rewards if they don't stay and opt to abort which is totally unfair to other players. Any regular mission has a time limit once 2 or more people are on the extract or you may opt out of endless missions without penalty. I was just in a mission that I had to abort out of because the host said 'brb' and went afk for 30min. That is ridiculously obnoxious on many levels to your fellow players. I realize that I could attempt to host my own railjack mission but some of us aren't decked out enough with our RJ's to do so or people with lag/connectivity issues who cannot host effectively. I sincerely hope this is something that will be looked into and tweaked in the near future.

That said I am truly having a blast with railjack and looking forward to the new war. Thank you 8o)

im with you on this. the ridiculous cost of repairing wreckage is driving people into specific behaviors. personally when i host i do only the missions i know my rail can handle a spam of with my payload and when my payload gets low, i go back to the dock. imo this is how it should be. i do try to definitely get the drops that comes from kills but this also needs alot of work.

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Navigation should be taken under close investigation. Ive had multiple times where as the Host and Captain of my railjack i got shanghaied into doing missions cause someone else rushed to my nav-panel and pressed the same node again and the game just blindly warps without a group vote or something. Worst experience was when one person tried to bully me into bailing out my own ship so they could be the captain by constantly navigating to low-level nodes. I get that there is no easy solution, but right now it is awful as it seems to switch between 2 problematic extremes (Living under cap's dictatorship vs Whoever gets to it first gets to pick whatever they want). Ideally the moment a mission is complete a player should be able to say they want to return to the orbiter with everything they have collected. Would also make things a LOT easier for captains looking to chain multiple runs rather than have to keep hearing "GO TO DOJO!" every 2-3 rounds.

Also Intrinsics as a barrier of entry doesn't work by itself. It may work for players as it forces them to have some skills, but the Railjacks themselves are unchecked. Ive had numerous runs going really badly cause someone thought their 1500hp ship with Base APOCs would be good enough to handle Saturn's final mission. Intrinsics can help one be more effective and partially compensate for ship shortcomings, but they can't carry a crummy newb-ship.

Due to the length of the missions the "Completion" criteria upon which the game blocks others from joining should be tightened. The easiest form would be that if ANY of the objectives are completed no more joins. That should keep people from joining only to find the Commander is already dead or the spoiler completed. Would even suggest to make it block halfway through. Like say half the fighters/crew ships are down or a radiator was exposed and destroyed already.

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Situation A; Searching for a Railjack to crew: Result-> Could not find group.

Situation B; Have a railjack of my own and looking for crew: Result-> Over an hour of gameplay without a single player joining.

Feedback: You forgot to turn on the matchmaking, DE.

Comment: Hey DE, do you think we'll ever see dinosaurs in your dinosaur park players in your co-op game?

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I did something I am not proud of today.  I aborted a mission (forcing a host migration) during the "spoiler mission" in railjack.    My ship is kitted out and have no issue helping others who do not have a robust ship.

I am tired of people ignoring the core mission, expecting others to do it, while they go out and do the anomaly.   Then if they don't get what they want they abort out reducing the group size because now an objective is "complete".  I would like to get the weapon...but I will not do it at the expense of my enjoyment or people having fun at mine.   Until that ship is locked off until the other objectives are complete...I will just avoid it.    

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Railjack could have been placed into the same "type" of player interaction in the game as Lunaro or Conclave. Interactive menu on the orbiter. I am either solo or taken on some strange trip in space which is fun, yet unsatisfying as far as knowing if I am actually getting rewarded for the time spent, or sometimes NOT spent. We have 2 systems that actually work for matchmaking besides The core game that hardly anyone gives a crap about. Implement Railjack that way, rewards and all. Then put Relics and mystery boxes in Lunaro and Conclave and see if that makes them populated. 

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We need to be able to vote on new missions when starting from the end of a completed mission, and people need to be able to drop out and not lose rewards even if the host decides to do another mission.

I don't know how client (non-host) players using navigation from the dry dock is supposed to work, or if you're supposed to be able to return to the dry dock without completing a mission, because both of those things are buggy and inconsistent (sometimes they work, sometimes not).  Whatever is intended, I don't want the host to be able to drag me into a new mission.  If we finish a mission, let me leave the squad and go back to my orbiter without losing rewards, please.

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TLDR:
1. Start hosting Railjack missions from Orbiter.

2. Expect more memorable and shareable experiences between players (hopefully more positive than negative ones)

3. Failures are necessary to make wins actually feel like wins.

Railjack matchmaking is the biggest area for improvement for me in the Railjack experience. I feel myself driven to set matchmaking to public, start the mission from my railack/dojo, and go with the expectation that I might have to solo it. It's not difficult to put together squads, but it is slower than just logging in and directly clicking on the mission node and starting the mission. My time is very valuable to me and I prefer to spend more time experiencing Railjack rather than experiencing the recruiting chat. Anyhow, we can solo Missions with the meta build, and it's nice to have that option, if you just want to log in and immediately jump into the action at any time. It would be nice if you could do this from the orbiter though.

Currently you have to be inside your Railjack or inside the Dojo to host a Railjack mission - which doesn't take too long, and makes sense thematicaly, but does take a little more time. For some reason my intuition/first expectations when clicking on Railjack missions while inside the orbiter would be that the following would occur: search for an open railjack party on that node and try to join it, or start a session and apply my current matchmaking setting. It would be nice if you could start Railjack missions from the Orbiter.

As someone without a lot of patience, I find myself losing my composure with other players more often in the Railjack experience. Personally, I need to take responsibility for my patience (or lackthereof), but hopefully some abrasive interactions between players is to be expected since Railjack is designed around the current powercreep and to facilitate an environment for cooperative play instead of parallel play.

I like that you've created an environment where mistakes can happen and do have consequences (such as losing out on some resources still left over in the foundry, or wasting artillery rounds trying to kill fighters and getting told to get off the artillery cannon). We need loss to make wins more valuable. Without that contrast, everything is a win and becomes stale and boring. Many players probably don't understand this. Anyway, that's all I have to say, thanks for reading.

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On 2019-12-14 at 4:37 PM, Steel_Rook said:

We absolutely do. Unlike every other mission in Warframe, Railjack IS NOT playable solo, by design. However, trying to play games with your own Railjack will almost always put you in an instance by yourself, sitting on your hands waiting for players to join. Attempting to fight solo will usually result either total destruction or at least draining your resources before other players show up. And even then, just a single random pubbie is still not enough. You need someone to fly, someone to use Turrets, fight boarders, put out fires, etc. and at least one other person outside killing the Crew Ships that the Railjack weapons won't even scratch. That's a minimum of three people. Why not give us a matchmaking option which allows us to wait until a full team is available AND THEN warp to the mission?

Pretty much every mandatory team game has this feature. If Warframe had it as an option, I would absolutely use it before starting a Railjack mission because trying to run the ship under-crewed isn't just depressing - it eats into my resource yield and makes the grind even longer. Give us proper matchmaking, please - one which would ensure we don't start a mission without the recommended crew size.

to be honest, this is only an issue with low intrinsics, since getting 7777 [im 8988 now] solo any mission is perfectly doable. But yes it is a huge pain and will put people off playing if there first exp of the mode are nightmares

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7 hours ago, Steeldragonz said:

to be honest, this is only an issue with low intrinsics, since getting 7777 [im 8988 now] solo any mission is perfectly doable. But yes it is a huge pain and will put people off playing if there first exp of the mode are nightmares

Are you actually referring to playing with the Railjack, though, or parking it at the edge of the map and playing with just your Archwing? Because every time people have talked about "soloing" Veil Proxima missions, it has been by hiding the Railjack and not actually using it.

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13 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Are you actually referring to playing with the Railjack, though, or parking it at the edge of the map and playing with just your Archwing? Because every time people have talked about "soloing" Veil Proxima missions, it has been by hiding the Railjack and not actually using it.

no, i actually use my railjack. after you get to a good mk2 setup there is no need to bother AW soloing. you can just use the RJ and upgrade from there, im 8998 now.

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2 hours ago, Steeldragonz said:

no, i actually use my railjack. after you get to a good mk2 setup there is no need to bother AW soloing. you can just use the RJ and upgrade from there, im 8998 now.

How do you pull that off, then? Because the moment you get a hull breach or boarders, you need to abandon the pilot's console. That leaves you a sitting duck, causing the ship to continually take damage faster than a single player can repair it, or at least repair it AND fly the ship. I don't see what level 7 Intrinsics can do to mitigate that.

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On 2019-12-28 at 9:48 AM, Steel_Rook said:

How do you pull that off, then? Because the moment you get a hull breach or boarders, you need to abandon the pilot's console. That leaves you a sitting duck, causing the ship to continually take damage faster than a single player can repair it, or at least repair it AND fly the ship. I don't see what level 7 Intrinsics can do to mitigate that.

This is not really the relevant thread for this sort of discussion, but...

upgrading your intrinsics and components make it much easier to avoid being boarded and make you take much less damage.  When those things do happen, you can warp to the spot, quickly take care of it, and warp back to pilot seat — if your loadout is good enough.

Additionally, there are avionics like void cloak, intruder stasis, etc.  That can help a lot with soloing.

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On 2019-12-13 at 10:43 AM, Mephane said:

I have yet to be able to get any other players join me on my Railjack. It's always me alone, in fact the mission begins instantaneously and does not even try to find other players. Needless to say it's totally useless to play this way.

 

Edit: Some time later, still no luck. Tried launching it both methods:

Orbiter -> Dojo -> Dry Dock -> Railjack -> Navigation

Orbiter -> Railjack -> Navigation

Group set to public the whole time. Never would a player join, I'd always be alone. I only managed to join other players' Railjack so far through the regular nav console in the orbiter.

Having the same problem    matchmaking doesnt work at all,   cant complete any missions like this,    luckily i can join others missions so i get to play some.   but i spent a week building a railjack i cant even use.

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On 2019-12-28 at 1:48 PM, Steel_Rook said:

How do you pull that off, then? Because the moment you get a hull breach or boarders, you need to abandon the pilot's console. That leaves you a sitting duck, causing the ship to continually take damage faster than a single player can repair it, or at least repair it AND fly the ship. I don't see what level 7 Intrinsics can do to mitigate that.

Quanta breach, and being a faster pilot. avoid boarders in the first place.

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Many times out of many I find that all the group members want to do everything.  This turns out to be a problem because if everyone leaves the railjack, then no one is maintaining it.  Also, certain aspects of the tactical menu seem to be things best left to the railjack host only (eg. commands and tactical avionics).  I think that instead of matchmaking as is, railjack matchmaking would require you to choose a role (eg. Pilot, gunner, engi, forger, or infil) and while in that role you would be excluded from certain interactives (eg. no pilot needs to use the slingshot or the forge, and a gunner needs no omni), the exception being when there are less than 3 crew members, because then two people would need to fill multiple roles.  If more players enter a party of two then the two existing party members would be locked in their role.

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since in public games, some player too often rush for 'specific' mission objectives and a likely to leave the game if they won't get what they searched for there, i suggest that all mission objectives are only enterable after all fighters are destroyed (maybe crewships too) or, only if the host is giving the ok for it by some kind of command button.

the problem goes beyond those rushers being uncooperative (leaving the rest of the team to not only fight off every attckers and also getting free affinity and resources + those they get on the bases and ships) but it also leads to a constantly influx of player leaving and joining in short order if those rushers leave the mission in the middle of it. new player will join, see that the sentient ship or galleon etc. is already done and they abort shortly after since this is why they came for. likely they would have also rush in to try their luck, but that's beside the point that it annoys those late-joiner and players in the mission alike - not to mention the problem many hosts will generate when they have a poor internet uplink and constantly getting people connected too... the result is often a skyrising ping for the clients in mission which take much fun out of the game.

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There should be a "Join a random crew in this Proxima" button.  It's a waste of time to encounter the "cannot find an open crew on this node" dialog, when instead I can be placed into a queue and automatically join someone who decides to host.

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