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(PC) Empyrean: Railjack Mission and Difficulty Feedback Megathread

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Is it intentional that only the host can use navigation after finishing a railjack mission? The last time I played, our host died, so it was impossible for us, to return to the dry dock, so we had to abort the mission after completing it.

Well, the host decided to be fair and left the mission, so at least the rest of us could leave without loosing our rewards. But still, I don't think this is optimal...

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I can understand having relics in the reward pool. They are one of the few aspects of normal gameplay that can easily be used as a link between game modes.

What I'm not ok with is their distribution in relation to mission difficulty and length.

Take Veil Proxima as an example. It is by far the hardest sector, not only in railjack but in the whole game. It is filled with the highest leveled rj enemies, and the highest leveled ground enemies as well. Detail, those ground enemies are lvl 80-90 which on its own would make them higher than anything non survival sortie 3 or lich lvl >4, but their base HP is higher than similar enemies found in other parts of the game. All of these aspects make these ground enemies a point way above the curve.

Considering this I ask you, why are veil missions dropping neo relics and not axi? And also why is it only one per mission?

There's nothing that justifies such mediocre rewards.

And the principle applies throught all of the rail-chart.

Veil Proxima should drop Axi

Saturn Proxima should drop Neo

Earth Proxima should drop Lith in the first couple of missions (perhaps the lower 3) and meso in the rest.

Beyond that those should either be given in bundles of 3 or pre radded.

Railjack missions are long, way longer than a couple of runs in ESO or about as twice as long as a PT run. Those modes are somewhat close of what thiss game has as a high lvl endgame. The reward structure of these should be observed and serve as inspiration when balancing the rewards given by a mode of greater lvl and length.

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These are the things I don't personally like:
1. I've been farming for the past few days for a good reactor for my railjack for about 10-12 hours each day. So far I've only gotten 2 Vidar reactors which happened to have lower stats than my Zetki reactor.

What I think could be done in order to make the grind easier:

- Remove relics from drop table (We have enough places to farm relics as it is).

- Make each wrecked part have set stats instead of random ones.

- Instead of dropping a wreckage blueprint for a railjack part, have some sort of resource or currency that drops and use that currency to research the Vidar/Zetki/Lavan MK III wreckage in our dry dock or some sort of vendor that we can exchange the parts.

2. The ram sleds in the veil have a shield. It would be nice if that shield had a health on it so it can be destroyed and we don't have to play "Pin the tail on the railjack"

3. Enemies deal an absurd amount of damage and are tanky af. I think some re-balancing is in order.

4. The Amesha. We all know you can't survive for more that 5 seconds out of your railjack without an Amesha. It just feels like you HAVE to be invulnerable in order to survive and get anything done.

5. Forward artillery in the veil does next to nothing to crewships and I see no poin in using it. Would be nice to have the crewship stop firing after being shot or have it deal less damage.

6. I forgot at which rank but you can remotely use one specific warframe ability from your railjack menu. Some frames have a solid choice but others are just laughable. Why would I use my flux energy to spawn a decoy (Since I'm Loki) when it's going to be completely annihilated in less than half a second? Why not Radial Disarm? You could even make it so that it has a cooldown too so it doesn't get overused.

7. Some railjack animations feel slow. for example, going into the slingshot can sometimes feel slower than going out through the nearest hatch and just flying to a crewship. The forge also feels kinda slow especially when I'm playing with less than 3 other players and need to do multiple things at once.

8. The healing spheres that crewships deploy. They sometimes stack into each other making them really frustrating to take destroy. A limit how many can be active at the same time or have a crewship deploy a maximum of 2 or something. Also, when they are destroyed they emit a blinding light.

9. When on a mission with objectives such as "Disable the ship killer platform" after completing everything ram sleds still get deployed from asteroid bases and such. Can get annoying when you want to get out of your railjack and gather resources with your archwing or even complete another objective like investigating some strange anomaly.

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Give the missions Bounty-like objectives to reward players for doing missions that take longer, hide the rewards until the mission is over though so people don't rush 1 thing then quit.

Currently the best way to get any decent end of mission rewards is to rush Gian point. Literally the only reason to do another node is for the 0.001% chance at an Umbra forma. And yes, I am aware of the horrible bonus rewards after a mission that are basically just some resources (1 of the bonus rewards is 1 whole Fresnel which I have 5k of.)

Seriously, give a mission reward for more things done, 45 fighters? Rotation A. 90 fighters? Rotation B. 3 crewships? Rotation B. 6 Crewships? Rotation C. Non-galleon side objective? Rotation B. Galleon side objective? Rotation C. Mission finished? Rotation C. Give us a damn reason to do a 20+ minute mission for more than 1 actual reward my god. As an idea, the current "bonus rewards" would fit rotation A/ some in B. So A would be basic Railjack resources. B would be Dirac, resources and a smaller chance at RJ part. C would be Slivers, Forma BP, Railjack parts, Rush drone's and Relics.

Edited by More-L
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This is regarding the Crew Ships specially.

 

1. Ramsleds should stop launching from Crew Ships that no longer have Pilot/Gunners in them or at least no crew at all.

 This goes for the Asteroid Hangars as well, You would think killing everyone and destroying everything in there should be enough to take them out for good.

 This is a lot more noticeable and annoying when playing solo, Since you don't get the alert about the boarding party while out of the Railjack, when you come back there are 1-4 Ramsleds stuck to the ship and a bunch of Grineers sitting there waiting for you, they don't seem to move at all when the Railjack is empty.

 

2. Killing the whole Crew of a Crew Ship should count towards the mission objective, Right now even if you kill the whole crew and capture the ship instead of getting a +1 in the objective you trigger another Crew Ship, instantly spawning in as you touch the ship's controls.

 Instead of taking the ship for your use against the little ones you feel you are getting pushed to destroy it because since you are not making any progress towards the objective doing that, another ship will just jump in and you will have to deal with that one too.

 A Crew Ship with no Crew should be a Dead Ship.

 

EDIT: 

Another thing I would like to see added to this game mode is an option to Stop Auto Roll.

The game keeps trying to Auto Roll the Railjack to either Face Up or Face Down when the Railjack is not turning enough in any direction,

Dog Fighting and having the Railjack keep trying to accomodate itself can be annoying, messes with my aim as well.

Edited by 0meg4x
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Im sitting hear wanting to mod my railjack with the best mods i have on me but i cant do to my railjack being locked behing a power wall and  to get past that power wall you need a 100 power vidar reactor just to let you use the fully leveld good mods and just trying to get the reactor is an anoying grind in itself

 

Ive been grinding for days now trying to get a 100 reactor but no luck id like to sugest that the vidar reactors be more easyer to get so people can enjoy modding and playing with there railjack with the full copacity or just take the reactor systom out entierly becouse its realy not fun having your railjack power walled making you unable to add battle avi and  tactical avi and if i do want to use them i half to remove a lot of mods just to do it all becouse of the reactor power copacity thats not fun 

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My Railjack experience…

.) Grinding for Intrinsic points.
If  you have an affinity booster in use and play a “Veil Proxima” mission only as a pilot you get ~5 intrinsic points, so you need to grind Veil missions for over 200 times per skill tree!
Idea: If you like people to play Railjack for a longer period of time, activate/unlock the skilltree gradually.

.)Problems during entering and exiting ships/stations
-Sometimes you get stuck in the geometry
-Some movements do not work after entering buildings/ship. e.g.
-- Operator can’t use Void Dash anymore
-- Stealth kill (x) us not usable anymore
- When getting ejected from Crewships during explosions it’s possible to get stuck in Archwing form

.) On high levels survivability and damage of pet’s is really bad (also true for Kuva Lich missons), even if fully modded.

.) Weapon damage of Archwing weapons in general is far to low do make any fun at all (and maybe they are to slow and have a to rapid falloff too)
- Maybe implement Hit arrays (Engine, Weapons, Shield generators) where Archweapons do more damage and have an actual effect on the Enemy ships.

.) The healing bubble of enemy ships heals way to fast (When shooting an fully modded Imperator Vandal at a fighter you can’t even damage it)

.) I see it very problematic, that only a fully modded Railjack makes any fun at all (and when you have it, you get the least amount of Intrinsics when using it 😞 )

.) MK3 Reactors should all have above 50 avionic points (to a max of e.g. 100). The difference should be in the secondary effects only!

.) Forward Artillery Should be usable as a standard Turret (maybe with the same weapon in use as the installed forward weapon) Standard fire turret; alternative Artillery (maybe with smaller field of view; 180°)

.) Sling Shot:
-should either use the same 360° view as the turrets
- or even better make Slingshot available directly from the turrets (e.g. with an teleportation effect) (e.g. by holding Jump)

.) RNG: With riven mods it is at least possible to reroll a bad riven by using Kuva.
For Railjack IF the RNG stays the way it is, please at least implement some possibility to upgrade bad Weapons, Components, ... by using resources (This is also true for Kuva Lich weapons which are a pain in the A. to get with the correct Damage type as it is) (e.g. Dirac/Endo/Kuva)

.) The main weapons of Crewships should not be able to hit Archwings at far distances (It’s like hitting a fly with a cannon from 1km distance), maybe at short range?

.) When Boosting backwards, and then release the button the Ship makes a forward leap (especially annoying when followed by a boarding capsule)

.) Energy management: If possible add 100 energy to a Warframe  or Archwing when entering the mode (maybe 200 when using Slingshot)

.)Last but not least mission variety: I think this is a topic for the future, because the game principle of railjack cries out to be expanded 😉 - And an integration in the rest of the game modes could/should be more fluid.

Edited by AceAl24

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Hi ! I was wondering why you nerfed the cryophon in the next patch. The issue is not the cryophon to be to powerfull. It's the over weapons that need to be buff.

I also see that you halved the enemy armor, but it seems that the enemies that the thread is talking about were Earth's one. Does it mean that the enemies on Saturn and the Veil won't get nerf ?

Actually I possess a MK3 Carcinox zetki and I know it overheat and everything. But in the same time I have predator(vidar), section density(vidar) and hypertrike(zetki). I only could get Vidar version of the critical mod because some say that the enemies that drop it don't spawn.  With all this mods I don't feel like this weapon is good. It takes too much time to kill an enemy.

So I was wondering what was the purpose of this kind of mechanic. The mission is not specifically hard but it takes too much time to kill an enemy. It's just making the missions too long for nothing. There is no link between the enemy resistance and their damage. Moreover enemies aren't a threat but you need to overheat 2 times to kill them.

Now you wan't to nerf the only good fully modded weapon that can two shots enemies. Nerfing the only good weapon is equivalent to increase the enemy HP pool. The feeling I get of this is just that everybody is rolling over your new content so you wan't to artificialy improve the life expectency of Empyreen. Next time if you have a problem with that you know that you can set up a reputation system.

More it seems that you didn't increase the drop rate from the enemies. So instead of chaining missions we will have to do a mission in great psychologic pain : No challenge but HUGE HealthPool.

I hope that I'm wrong and EXO versions of enemies armor will be halved to make other weapons great. I hope it will be sufficient. If not we will again pay for your mistake.

There is a huge gap between weapons and it feels like you didn't test the game at all. Maybe people prefer to wait for a fully polished content...

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I feel that railjack missions in the veiled proxima when players don't have void hole and munitions vortex take too long ranging from 20 minutes or longer and when you do it's only 5 minutes mission. The difference between when you have them and when you don't is drastically different and make some of the other battle avionics could be looked at so they don't make these two feel like a must have avionic to speed up the mission time.

I think that missions probably wouldn't take as long as they do if archwings didn't draw enemy agro away from the railjack and cause enemies to spawn further away. Unless there is a plan to introduce a new taunting battle/tactical avionic, it's more efficient for players to simply stay in the railjack and use the archwing slingshot to enter crewships instead of flying, so that enemy stay near the railjack.

I think that enemies in general are fine for railjack missions because they aren't too easy to be killed in 1 shot by most weapons and we already have things that make killing them easier like void hole and munitions vortex.

Initially when I started railjack, I felt that the mission rewards at the end aren't really worth the time it takes for one mission. 15 trachon in the veiled for a possibly 10-15 minute mission isn't a lot when destroying the 90 fighters give you way more trachon.

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13 hours ago, MegatronG1 said:

I feel that railjack missions in the veiled proxima when players don't have void hole and munitions vortex take too long ranging from 20 minutes or longer and when you do it's only 5 minutes mission. The difference between when you have them and when you don't is drastically different and make some of the other battle avionics could be looked at so they don't make these two feel like a must have avionic to speed up the mission time.

I think that missions probably wouldn't take as long as they do if archwings didn't draw enemy agro away from the railjack and cause enemies to spawn further away. Unless there is a plan to introduce a new taunting battle/tactical avionic, it's more efficient for players to simply stay in the railjack and use the archwing slingshot to enter crewships instead of flying, so that enemy stay near the railjack.

I think that enemies in general are fine for railjack missions because they aren't too easy to be killed in 1 shot by most weapons and we already have things that make killing them easier like void hole and munitions vortex.

Initially when I started railjack, I felt that the mission rewards at the end aren't really worth the time it takes for one mission. 15 trachon in the veiled for a possibly 10-15 minute mission isn't a lot when destroying the 90 fighters give you way more trachon.

Weapons and enemy HP are way out of balance imho. Starter railjack isn't up to snuff vs starter enemies. Leaving your ship to fight as archwing is kind of pointless unless you've sunk a ton of forma into archwing and use Amesha. It feels like an alpha test to me.

Before someone gets all buttthurt I'll say that it has the potential to be the most fun thing in this game. It just needs work that's all.

Edited by hooperinius

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On 2020-01-13 at 8:31 PM, Nua2V said:

Is it intentional that only the host can use navigation after finishing a railjack mission? The last time I played, our host died, so it was impossible for us, to return to the dry dock, so we had to abort the mission after completing it.

Well, the host decided to be fair and left the mission, so at least the rest of us could leave without loosing our rewards. But still, I don't think this is optimal...

Other people can use it but it's really buggy and unpredictable to the point where I'm not sure which way is the intended functionality.

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Please adjust the Intrinsics reward level (slighty) down and turn the bonuses on.  This will get rid of several problems, and make playing RailJack in a group actually worth it and easier (currently group play is "more difficult" than solo).  

 

Currently, I get like 80+ intrinsics in about 50 minutes completing a mission solo (which is about the only way to do it) with a booster.  This should be adjusted so that is calculates out to like 100 with the bonuses and booster.  

Bonuses applying would make people stop aborting the missions.  This would increase the pleasantness of group play AND reduce glitches (people farming objectives to abort before finishing fighters and crew ships).  Calculating the base down (so it was only slightly higher with the bonus) would also discourage this behavior.

 

I like RailJack but currently it is best played solo, which is a shame.  Playing with randos generally leads to glitches (which make play unpleasant and less efficient).  Playing with a good squad is slightly faster, but gives less intrinsics.  Recently my clan has all been on, but all playing RailJack separately and solo because it is more efficient.  To me it's clear evidence that the current system needs adjustment.  

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I've noticed it's hard for me to get a pilot, and other pilots I've encountered don't actually enjoy it as much as the other components of the mission type.

They all say they've more or less taken piloting because they can never find a pilot, themselves. They've taken the path, not because they enjoy or particularly relish the enhancements it offers, but as a necessity.

I myself have focused on Tactics(Currently 8 points) thinking I might actually be able to use it reasonably in higher level missions while piloting(which I have at 5), but I often find that isn't the case, the UI is a little obstructive and clunky. Usually what ends up happening is we wipe out the enemies, I park the railjack, and then provide tactical support after everything else has settled down, and most of the time nobody wants to wait that long, as in the case of the pulse turbine, it's actively buffing the enemy.

Piloting is not unfun, it's just not my first choice, I consider myself decent at it, and I'm probably the only person who's gonna be comfortable with the tuning of my own railjack. If a player is to own a railjack, it more or less seems like a necessity for them.

I dunno, it seems like a bad suggestion to say maybe piloting shouldn't be an intrinsic but something else, but maybe it should be linked to a form of progression for the ship itself? Like affinity?

Edited by Aksyl
Refinement

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Would love it to be easier to get reactors so i can use avionics, battle avionics, and tactical avionics on my railjack iv been grinding for a vidar reactor mk 3 for days now and have only goten weapons, shields and engins

So can you guys please make it easyer to get reactors maby take out the relics from the rewards table or increase the drop rate by a good amount i dont want any more weapons, shields, or engins iv alredy got to many  its hard to be able to put on a good amount of the avionics becouse your locked behind a power wall its like if you had to find a the best reactor for your warframe or you couldent use the abilitys or mods for it  

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Suggestion:

We got "arsenal" place on our Railjack... would you be so kind DE and let us use it freely while on mission, so we can change our Warframes etc. on the fly?

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Don’t nerf archwing, buff the Railjack.

For one, you need to have more armour and health to start with. The Railjack is meant to be an Orokin era ship and it gets outpaced by simple Grineer scrap ships.

We need to be able to do more damage. Even with the best gear, taking down a crewship with the RJ is a joke.

These changes will need to be addressed before I introduce my last request:

Boarding ships should only happen when a ship is at low health, like around 30% health. Seeing how weak your RJ is, players often for go it to use your archwing, which can just fly up to it and destroy it in seconds.

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There's a continuing issue that's been bugging me a lot lately. Namely, that when people go investigate the Sentient, if they don't find whatever rare part they're looking for, they immediately bug out, leaving whoever's left with the difficult choice of trying to finish the mission without further assistance, or dropping the mission. From where I'm standing, that's a failure of the mission system, creating a situation where the reward is so high-end, that quitting the mission is seen as preferable to "wasting" further time finishing the mission and losing access to a narrow mission window opportunity.

So how about this. If the participant already has the Shedu blueprint, when they whack the red crystal, they can get an Eidolon shard? It provides an alternate path to obtaining shards to the Teralyst/Hydrolyst (which are unavailable for up to half the day anyway depending on timing,) and it provides an incentive to stick the mission out if you didn't get a rare weapon part.

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Easier would be to make Shedu parts / Ephemera / whatever end-of-mission rewards, that you only see it in the end screen (like the Emissary drops or Warframe parts). The only real way to fix the abort-farming types is to make them complete the mission to find out if they got anything at all. 

Edited by Ham_Grenabe

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Adding some consistency, or mission descriptions in the star chart.
I would love to see such feature added, somewhere in the future.

Right now, all you get to see.
Is that this mission is 'skirmish'. And the next 10 are... 'skirmish'...
Followed by more... ...'skirmish'...

...

I still remember the first impression this gave to me.
It felt kind of, really bland.
My apologies, but I'm being all honest in this.

So, now I have a piece of paper with me, on my desk.
With notes like: 'node X - Objective 'do this' - fighters/crewship ammount'

Having just the mission description alone,
would allready, filter out a lot of noise.

But there is more...

The mission nodes, aren't allways consistent either.

I know, for example, that;

  • Earth - Korms Belt
  • Saturn - Kasio's rest

both have a galleon captain.
With Earth having a galleon, and Saturn a base captain, respectively.

However.
Several times, did Korm's belt, end up being a completely different objective.

Spoiler

iXLxJC7.jpg

Since I am grinding for the blueprint of both Quellor and Pennant.
And seeing from the screenshot, that I have no crew.
You can kind of start to see,
where this becomes, a really painful grind.

Yes, up to this moment, still no luck. (and Korm's belt, is allready the faster variant)
And indeed, this can be rounded up much faster with a full team.

But having had:

  • Bad experience with randos (Let's raid that anomaly, and leave the host to fend off 6 crewships. Then they leave if there's no Shedu parts.)
  • A not very active clan (if lucky, I see 1 person once a week... ...who has met their interet data limit.)
  • No friends (I mean, can't blame them... Once everyone gets to know what a monster I am. Gotta protect the innocent.)

Well, in short...
I'll be grinding this for a year, if rng keeps being against me.

So, if at least the mission would consistently keep it's main objective...
And we get to see what actually delve into beforehand.
It would be such a QOL improvement.

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I have some things to say to make this better.

1. Get rid off or give us option to turn off railjack auto re-center after banking. It does not have any purpose, it's annoying and disorienting.

2. Bring back old archwing controls. You know those controls where you could do anything with it and i mean it for both ground and space. Or bring back "Experimental Mode" option that enables the old controls. I mean controls when you had experimental mode on, because it was more usable even before.

Those are the worst things right now in Empyrean for me.

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9 hours ago, AegisAmaranth said:
  • A not very active clan (if lucky, I see 1 person once a week... ...who has met their interet data limit.)
  • No friends (I mean, can't blame them... Once everyone gets to know what a monster I am. Gotta protect the innocent.)

Hey, fellow clan member.

Will return when possible.

To be on topic for the rest of the people, I will like your comments if I agree so that DE can see more people wants it 🙂

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i hate any mission i cant do solo and also bosses that u need to do that befor that and than that to kill or convert it all keeps me from playng warframe and i loved it i got more than 4k hours off grind but now its just anoyng for me atleast

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