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(PC) Empyrean: Railjack Mission and Difficulty Feedback Megathread


SilverBones
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3 minutes ago, SirSmite said:

- There has to be a way for those who don't have RJs to spend intrinsics. I have several friends who are on-and-off again players, and they certainly don't have the time or resources to build their own RJs. I was hoping to have them tag along with me and be my crew as we do missions through different nodes. But we're pretty much relegated to the first few, with me having to do most of the heavy lifting since I can spend my intrinsics for better abilities...

There's a post on Reddit about that.  Intrinsics can be found under Esc > Profie > Intrinsics.

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As respectfully and constructively as possible:

Initially, I felt dumb for looking forward to this. I've been stuck in the first mission because I have only myself (MR23) and a friend ( @RakdosRiot MR25).
Now, I WILL say: after bulling forward a bit after the initial attempt bombed hard... I am mildly enjoying myself... But, again, I've only been on the first node, and I have to report...

 

I've played the game for several years now. That's a LOT of time and effort put into something. Constructing a Railjack took some time, too, which makes sense well enough to me. The problem arises when Warframe doesn't respect my time spent. I can turn around, right now, and go fight Lv105 enemies while hunting a Lich no problem... But Lv1-3 enemies shred me down to nothing in seconds in a fully decked out Elytron. That makes very little sense and shows no respect for my time spent previously.

To exacerbate the issue, DE has once again added new resources. By doing so, it DOES make things take longer to chew through... But not in a way that feels fun or interesting, like I'm working toward something. Intrinsics, now that's pretty neat. Tac 4, Pilot 5, Gun and Engineer 10 seems the most efficient way to spend the points, and it'll take time to earn those points... but I should be able to earn them playing more than just the first node! 

The default ballistic weapons a Railjack is equipped with feel awful to use in a combat environment where everything is faster than you are. The alternates, which seem to be hit-scan, are infinitely better. If the enemy is more nimble, I would think to go out in Archwing... But I get pulped if I'm not cheesing with the Amesha. Enemies can also ignore Itzal's cloaking!

Rewards seem to be broken as well. Certain rewards properly get added to player inventory at the end, but others seem to simply disappear. After completing a mission and milling about, I kept track of the number of a certain resource (can't spell, the mining one from Earth) to see if, perhaps, it was just being split four ways with myself and the crew... But no, no one got any of them at all. We theorized it was in a vault on the Railjack and started another mission... And had zero (0) of that resource again.

Finally, I can't imagine where we're expected to get several thousand of these drops just for our own fabrication purposes, or for repairing salvage. The drops are too low to do it in any reasonable amount of time (read: less than seven days for a single job), and the drops seem to be broken, like I said above.

 

It's a lot of little things that pile up into the game mode not being any fun the instant I have to step out to look at numbers. Assuming Intrinsics double each time, it takes 1,000+ (excuse, 500+, still a TON) points to max out a single one of the four. Out of those 4, the only one anyone would ABSOLUTELY want is Engineering Lv10. Gunner Lv10 is useful too, but why bother with Pilot or Tac Lv10s for SO MANY POINTS? They exist just to be bread crumbs to pick up in the coming months of drought, I'd assume - which is fine, as long as the mode is fun to play.

 

Railjack has a LOAD of potential, but it seems to have a lot of problems on launch that mute my ability to enjoy it. I hope to see it fixed quickly (most of it is just removing a zero from the end of some things), and I hope that in the future DE considers NOT adding new resources for every major update so that dedicated players like myself aren't in the same boat as someone who started two weeks ago (not an exaggeration, I actually have a friend who started just after Rising Tides, has his own Railjack, and is stuck like I am).

Edited by Max7238
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To start with the big one, the update broke squad invites, which is ironic for an update introducing such squad-focused content. The other big broken thing is boarding for non-host players, as in these screenshots. Mission end is also a bit wonky, for a time I was stuck on this screen after a mission ended, and the loading after everyone managed to escape it got to the point everyone in the squad just alt-F4'd.

With all the stuff that's outright broken out of the way, it's time to vent frustrations!

  • We need a boot camp and/or a target course, the entire set of railjack mechanics just does not grok as quickly as a new standard mission type like disruption. I had to fail like 3 railjack mission runs before I noticed the fixit juice launcher in my gear wheel
  • Fixit juice costs pustrels. Why does fixit juice cost pustrels? I AM ADRIFT IN A SEA OF NANO SPORES, FERRITE AND SCRAP, WHY DO YOU WANT MORE PUSTRELS
  • Please tell us what bits of the ship boarders can break, so we know where to look when Cy's angry about boarders
  • Also, give a better indication of boarders, hull breaches, fires and other bad stuff, maybe flashing red lights and a horn like in all the submarine games, since it's easy to lose Cy in all the grineer screaming and explosions
  • Getting in and out of the pilot and gunner seats is just too slow, aren't we supposed to be superpowered space ninjas? Why can't we take to a gunner/pilot's seat with the same speed as the common action movie protagonist who doesn't even have space ninja superpowers?
  • I don't know if this gets any better once you get past the railjack noob stage, but the crew ships are a bit short and plain; it's not particularly thrilling to just plink the reactor through the door using a gun with punch through then bail, and any other option is too inefficient since I know I can frag the entire crew ship by plinking the reactor through the door
  • Either the railjack's too fragile or the enemy damage numbers are too high, I barely have enough time to get back into the gunner/pilot seat (not helped by the speed of those actions) after patching up a breach/killing a fire when CRITICAL SYSTEMS FAILURE IMMINENT

I really want to like railjack since boarding parties are my absolute jam, but that's hard to do when you're married to such a jealous, needy ship.

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the targeting reticle seems to switch from being too slow or hyper sensitive to the mouse movement making it hard to properly aim and pilot, changing aim sensitivity in the options don't seem to help much. sometimes enemies get hit even if I saw the shots clearly missing the target and vice versa with no rhyme or reason, no idea if this is the aiming issue or an enemy hitbox size issue or both. I've had enemies not take damage from point blank range shots. archgun weapons are more effective that railjack guns. The enemy ships also seem a lil too fast and agile as well making long range engagements a tough choice unless they are moving  in a straight line

 

 

some breaches, fires or electric short circuits are impossible to fix using the omni-tool even if we have a charge.

the dumbfire rocket for the pilot, sometimes getting a hit does no damage and other times the enemy ship after being hit doesn't show the effects of being destroyed over time and just blows up

a few times the screen goes blank or grey after mission complete/failure

side guns, it hard for gunners to get a clear line of sight as the enemies are more often outside the firing arc as the pilot tries to shoot them down

 

 

PS: piloting railjack gave me motion sickness and a headache.I hope the AI solo thingy will have a Halo Reach space combat aiming cause I could do without the motion sickness now I'm gonna take a nap to deal with this headache 🤢

Edited by Cepheus_Antollare
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So.

The FIRST Railjack mission.

 - Even with maxed out Archwings you pretty much die as soon as a crewship appears. 
 - Itzal invisibility doesn't seem to work either in dodging the projectiles
 - Archwing guns are more effective then the guns on the railjack
 - Railjack can't take damage at all, you would be better off just parking your railjack at the edge of the map and using your archwing, until a crewship arrives
 - boarding a crewship, as in taking control of it lets you realize 2 things immidiatly. 1. It can take like 10x the amount of the dmg then the railjack and 2. the seeking missiles it shoots don't work for you
 - it is stupidly hard for a single person near impossible even, so multiplayer is mandatory, thanks (and even that doesn't really work, especially with randoms, well ok their randoms but still)
 - someone runs out of revives outside of the railjack? Well too bad, you can't complete the mission anymore
 - still talking about the FIRST mission btw, don't even gonna think about the higher level ones

First impressions of railjack...

It's S#&$.

 

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Forced to solo.
Clan does not respond.
Failure after failure.
I don't get a second to repair this rustbucket.
And if I do, there is no prompt given to repair the hull.

Empyrean:
Not for lowly stupid moronic beings like me.

I'll go drown my head in the toilet sink now.

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1 hour ago, UnderRevision said:

There's a post on Reddit about that.  Intrinsics can be found under Esc > Profie > Intrinsics.

You're kidding me... I never would have guessed to look in there.

Thank you! I wish a lot of these features were made more clear.

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Lots of issues and concerns here:

1. As usual, Controllers. X command doesn't work when customizing our RJ (removing avionics) since it's already used. Using tactics or anything other than only piloting and firing is a big mess with a controller, really clunky and not much well thought nor designed, navigating through a mess of options isn't fun nor efficient, things should definitely be improved before it lands on consoles. Aiming at enemies isn't working well either, even with the right intrinsics - For some (dumb) reasons the reticle is automatically moved toward the center, and let be honest a second, your targeting/space physics basically suck. I've played a lot of space games and your RJ can't aim at anything, even when firing at the right place, too many shots miss the target.

2. I'm kind of worried about the cooperative gameplay too. If one player is dumb, bugged or even wants to troll the whole mission, the "extraction" mechanics is really awful. One player only can ruin the whole mission if he can't or doesn't want to go back to the RJ. I've lost some missions because a player was stuck somewhere, dying too much (if one player he's dead, we can't extract either, nice one !) or even because some players wasn't able to get the whole "go back to the RJ" message.

I'm also worried about the overcomplicated "save the railjack" mechanics, fire etc. There are too many tasks here, some of them could definitely be managed automatically (i have an avionics for that, let it handle fires automatically, especially since it also has a timer). This whole feature isn't much fin tbh especially when one is stuck on a failure loop "can't fly since i have to close some stupid breach but since enemies are magically spawning everywhere i can't defend myself, so i'm stuck with infinite stupid tasks to handle instead of flying". this really sucks and if you're playing solo, with only one other player or even 3 players who don't care - this really sucks.

Overcomplicated RJ mechanics but also major AI concerns: when we were only two players, each time my wife was boarding a transport ship, all enemies were upon me, which can be quite lethal since RJ are also squishy as hell (or enemies dealing way too much damage).

3. Damage and resistance are completely broken. As usual shields are worthless, only one level 1 enemy can deplete your entire shield - getting them back is (once again) the stupidest mechanics ever since you can't get shield back if under constant fire. Warframe is suffering from worthless shield mechanics from years now and perhaps it would have been a good idea to make them viable before you implement space fights. RJ survivability can be really problematic, and at this point i don't even care about intrinsics (i have the first ones in all schools) cause i'm only trying to achieve the first levels missions. If it doesn't work with level 1 enemies, it won't work with anything.

With enough investment RJ damages can be good enough to take care of small ships but i'm still stuck with the terrible targeting mechanics. So far it's the worst targeting system i've ever experienced. This really needs to be improved cause Empyrean seems way too bugged and not well polished to be really fun. When other players are busy with boarding, all enemy ships come for the RJ and you'll then die in really now time. I don't really like the "magically spawning enemies"  either, sometimes some ships are spawning next to me and that's not how space battles are supposed to be tactically handled.

4. International players. We only have vocal messages to know what's happening, perhaps you're not used to not being able to speak or even understand english, but if something is important to know, we need written messages, in our own language if possible.

5. Getting a team, extracting, activating another mission, Dojo Docks loading etc. could also see some improvement. The whole mission system doesn't seem well polished nor smooth enough so far. I'm also worried with the lack of players or team, since this missions are a bit unbalanced and quite hard so far, not finding other players to play with could be a huge concern. Especially since lots of players won't join to be sure they'll have their own RJ, cause joining a random crappy RJ will definitely lead to mission failures. Sometimes players are even joining at the end of the mission... All of that isn't helping much quite of an un-fun experience so far.

Team management has never been Warframe best feature but since most content can be run solo or with less 4 players it wasn't much of an issue. If RJ missions are going to be a real pain with only one or two players, we're facing a real issue here.

Edited by 000l000
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Pustrels are going to be an economic pain in the behind, even if you go plains-mining for them - because you chew them up in higher difficulty missions resupplying your omni-tool... because you're constantly patching up holes in the hull.  The damage pressure is so high on the railjack that you spend most of a battle just running around patching critical-damage depressurization holes for the 40 second invulnerability window.  Your health and shield are meaningless.  But, of course, every repair is a few less pustrels on mission completion...

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Two additional things though:

6. Loots. Looting with Archwings (and now RJ) has always been nightmarish, maps are way too big to notice every single drop, especially since enemies aren't dropping loots upon death but only upon destruction (thus we have to wait until final explosion and follow the dying ship to get a loot or not....). I don't even think that attraction would help much since maps are huge and brighter lights on loots won't solve one thing - We definitely have more important things to do than looking for hidden loots everywhere. You never solved that in archwing missions so please, fix it now.

7. Something i noticed since i was mostly playing in my own RJ - There's some huge discrepancy between RJ and archwing players rewards. First, why every single RJ feature is locked behind some stupid grind ? Why the hell would i care about crafting my own ammos or whatever, missions aren't even rewarding enough to make this kind of investments viable.

Second, RJ owners are screwed, simple as that. They have to pay for all of this nonsensical items, they don't even get Archwing experience at the end of missions but they're the only one who have to spend materials to perform better (or perform - at all). No XP, a constant loss of materials, and quite funnily he's the only one who has to be sure his RJ isn't crappy enough to survive missions...

As usual, rewards aren't what they should be. Warframe is suffering from the same issues, over and over again. Every single content is suffering from the same mistakes, only worse and worse. Playing on test servers is nice but perhaps you should try to play with other players from time to time, you'd see ressources, gameplay (controller or keyboard), team gameplay or how to join a session are things we (the players) really care about.

8. Finally, a word about terrible Archguns we're supposed to use in such content. I've already mentioned the quite terrible targeting system but i forgot to mention the terrible Archgun arsenal. Only high speed/ high velocity guns are useful, other guns are next to worthless - If space fiights are going to be RJ missions now, you should work on some major Archgun QoL, a thing you should have worked on BEFORE Empyrean tbh. Archmelee seems quite broken too, perhaps you should look at that too.

Edited by 000l000
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19 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

Two additional things though:

6. Loots. Looting with Archwings (and now RJ) has always been nightmarish, maps are way too big to notice every single drop, especially since enemies aren't dropping loots upon death but only upon destruction (thus we have to wait until final explosion and follow the dying ship to get a loot or not....). I don't even think that attraction would help much since maps are huge and brighter lights on loots won't solve one thing - We definitely have more important things to do than looking for hidden loots everywhere. You never solved that in archwing missions so please, fix it now.

 

I;d say they have looked into this as it seems if 1 person pick up the loot, everyone gets it picked up, so you dont have to have everyone scrabling around looking for loot, just 1 oerson needs to pick it up, so 1 member with an Itzal per squad will be enough IMO.

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16 minutes ago, Teitaka said:

I;d say they have looked into this as it seems if 1 person pick up the loot, everyone gets it picked up, so you dont have to have everyone scrabling around looking for loot, just 1 oerson needs to pick it up, so 1 member with an Itzal per squad will be enough IMO.

The only problem with that is Itzal is squishy, and only Amesha's Watchful Swarm (the #1 power) is a reliable Archwing defense with the crazy damage being thrown around - and that needs constant recasting.  And not even Cosmic Crush is going to help much with the distances that Railjack combat happens at.

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The Sigma series railjack. The latest orokin state-of-art interceptor. Worse then a grineer crewship. Yes balance.

 

Looting system is horrible. Why does arcwing can't even pick up diracs and mods? Wait! Can't we just make all the reward automatically claimmed?

Rewards are not actually there after mission, probably a bug, could be intentional.

No tutorial. No ''can't do it alone' maybe until 2020 so we get new commands' warning.

Gives you 2500 credit for clearing a mission when you just spent 6mil credit on the ship.

Yes all the new resources needed to maintain a ship flying. Fancy. They get used up instantly even in practice mission and counted properly while the resources for those are bugged as they get gone to void every mission.

One needs to do damage control, one to pilot and others shoot turrets! In reality everyone instantly go to space with their arcwings, and boom.

 

More space scrap collecting game. With the huge space wagon constantly harrased by grineer super ninja-pirate spaceships.

In long term including Kuva Liches, you can't just stop people dropping out from this game. Like sands and stones slipping out of grasp of your hand.

Because you never make for them.

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Please for the love of Nidus, make it so everyone can use the navigation system. Just got out of a match where the host died on his last life and we all had to abort because none of us could make the railjack leave the mission. Also a vote system for RJ navigation like everywhere else in game would be nice. Can't tell you how many times the hosts jumped the ship into another mission before everyone was ready.

Would also like a way for non host players to be able to return to their orbiters at the end of a mission. Something like dropping a beacon while in archwing or just simply getting the option to call ordis to pick you up would work.

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Il y a 4 heures, Teitaka a dit :

I;d say they have looked into this as it seems if 1 person pick up the loot, everyone gets it picked up, so you dont have to have everyone scrabling around looking for loot, just 1 oerson needs to pick it up, so 1 member with an Itzal per squad will be enough IMO.

If no one picks the loot, no one gets it. they didn't solve a thing since missing a loot in space is easy as hell (and no one is having fun in doing that anyway). Itzal won't help either cause he won't be able to grab distant loots, he'll also die easily and won't have necessarily enough energy to spam his power either. Plus an archwing shouldn't be a solution to some huge design issues.

Plus Archwings can't loot rare avionics and ressources fyi, only RJ. Another stupid idea i'm still wondering how they came out with tbh, if that's not an upteenth bug.

Edited by 000l000
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I will say that Enemeis are INSANELY overpowered. Enemeis locking on and firing homing rockets that 1-shot you even though you are invisible with a fully leveled up and modded for max health+armour archwing, 4,000m away and the enemeis are only lvl20, that should be a big fat no-no.

Theres no difficulty in adding mobs that 1shot you from 4,000 meteres away with huge AoE splash damage rocktes that are imposssible to dodge (the splash seems to be around the same size of an Amesha's bubble with range mods on it), its just not fun. You need to rebalance the ENTIRE enemy arsenal for fighting archwings or make the mods that add more health/armour etc more potent for achhwings and give them better sttas. Our archwings are pretty much flying paper bags with a bullseye painted on the side of them at this point no matter how well you can mod them.

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Perhaps DE should look at required materials too. I just got a shield mk1 and need 3600 diodes to repair it. Seriously, the grind is becoming insane and i certainly won't spend my life in some stupid planet to get 100 more shields for my RJ. I'll be honest, everything so far is just annoying as hell, and is only repelling me from playing.

Stop treating your playerbase like beta testers and cows and make new content fun. I've read that Empyrean had potential, as far as i'm concerned i still think that Warframe shouldn't have focused on things they can't handle (space for instance) i don't think that more and more stupid grind, highly bugged tedious content, overcomplicated tasks most players can't or don't want to handle (i like complicated stuff, but let face the truth, i don't play spy missions with PUGs, enough said) and most importantly highly repetitive stupid missions (Kill or board the same thing over and over, rince, repeat and change the mission name) won't make space funnier.

But i may be wrong, except that for now most players didn't like much Archwings, you still haven't improved them and Empyrean doesn't look like an improvement to me. Same flaws, more bugs. At least you saved time and ressources since we're fighting in the middle of nowhere, except from a few rocks here and there.

Edited by 000l000
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9 hours ago, MsRoseluck said:

Im worried down the line. As Players without a Railjack at all, who are Unable to spend Intrinsics at all. They will become Parasites in Difficult Missions because they are level 0 in all regards. The first mission was a challenge with us having all 0s but as our pilot got some levels in we barely made by. Relying on PuGs Will pose the issue of getting players without a Ship and thus have no levels. meaning they will not be able to provide anything of use on a mission past the Earth section.

This is make forming a party a threat and a massive potential waste of resources if 1 or more of your Crew Members are Useless. This will potentially bring an end forming parties pulled up by randoms unless its done via the Recruiting Channel and the skills can be verified. All because players are punished for not building their own ship and instead relies on others.

You can apparently access intrinsics through the escape menu > profile - you might have to be in your orbiter. DE you really  need to signpost this stuff though!

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There's a lot to be said about the actual mission structure that people are managing better than me, so here's something a bit different:

Hosting being slaved to the person who owns the Railjack is a bit of a concern. I, for example, am slave to the terrible Canadian ISPs, and thus am an unsuitable host 90% of the time, but I'm also the person in my clan who completed work on my Railjack first, ahead of some of my more casual friends. We all enjoy being able to play together, but there are more suitable hosts that haven't constructed theirs yet. Them not being able to level up their crew skills is frustrating, yes, that's a problem that needs to be rectified somehow as well, but more importantly, the host and the Railjack owner shouldn't be slaved into being the same person.

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Revolite limits are terrible and locking the ability to replenish during combat makes no sense. Add on that it's a large resource sink and you're just punishing players for no good reason.

Me and my squadmates are spending most of the time putting out fires and playing defense, even on the lowest level mission where we can't do meaningful damage to a single crew ship!?

Gameplay would be a lot more fun if you shifted the balance from defense to offense - enemies do just a bit too much damage, boarding is too frequent and a squadmate has to be on fire duty for most of a match (which is seriously boring for them).

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One more thing, having to leave the team when you're definitely dead and thus being screwed since you won't have a single reward for a stupid half an hour investment (won't talk about fun cause we're still far from having fun with that content) isn't a good idea, it isn't nice and it's even quite insulting especially to all the players who are basically beta testing your game on a regular basis.

Stop this non sense and punishing for no reasons some players, only afk or semi afk won't die in empyrean, they aren't obliterated when trying to board some dull transport under enemies fire. So until you fix this joke of an archwing content (understand - implement a new revival mechanics that actually works in space) make at least dead players get some reward. Most of archwing abilities don't ever work, dead players should at least have the ability to spawn into our RJ, or make the RJ able to rescue them...

What was your point with RJ in the first place, making us fly some sort of weak piece of space junk for no reasons ? Absolutely no task requires this giant ship, we're only trying to not die with some squishy piece of crap, trying to kill enemies with stupid guns that fire confetti, moving as slow as a space turtle, unable to go near objectives or even attack transports ? what's wong with devs nowadays, RJ is useless, why are we even using that thing then, it helps with nothing, it's just complete dead weight. If it's slow why it is not some sort of flying fortress with huge and deadly cannons, with interesting buffs for archwings near enough (don't even mention this joke of avionics buffing useless things at some useless range, and worse that need many aviionics we are already using to NOT die). It could also be used to board stations or whatever. Nothing has been designed around the whole RJ thing, not sure it was a good move tbh.

So dear DE, what was your plan with this giant ship ? Why are we even using them, sometimes i feel like missions would even be easier without them. So far we need one pilot (that can't kill much) and perhaps one more player to help with boarding and flames/damages. And thus two players have to deal with dozens of ships at once with completely broken damage output and mostly unavoidable damages, with next to no help and death penalty ? Come on.

For instance my wife was the only one who cared about getting rid of transport ships, and she died because of that reason (cause many players don't have a clue about what to do and most importantly, you can't tune properly your own game). Tbh i'm not sure she'll still play the game now cause the whole empyrean joke was a bit too much for her. Perhaps you're fond of your new content but the only thing i see now is a lot of angry players.

And you know what, people don't like Archwings, they don't and never did. So you know what will happen once you mix up boring and unfair content with stupid grind ? Afk players. It won't be long before we'll see players afk or semi afk, quietly farming the huge amount of worthless stuff you want us to get. It's already happening with every single peace of XP farming so between afk players and dedicated ones who are left without a single reward, good luck with the 21st century toxicity in videogames.

Edited by 000l000
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It would be nice if it was more accommodating to solo play, I was really excited for it until I found out how trying to do it alone doesn't really work. Trying to get people together isn't easy and kind of makes it so you can't really play when you want. You play when you can find people and that's kind of silly. Also personally for me I feel other players takes the fun out of it (silly opinion for an MMO but I still run solo because that's what I find fun). Some kind of crew alternative would be nice.

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Just tried to fly solo first railjack combat mission

Sweet god, the difficulty. It is almost impossible to complete it solo. I've killed half of the fighters and one boarding ship, and after that my railjack literally started to break apart without any possibility to stop that. It's just impossible to control the ship, crafting revolite, repelling boarders, patching hull breaches and shoot down attacking fighters AT THE SAME TIME.

And the ship itself is fragile as hell. With no speed, maneuverability, almost no defences and hull that giant it feels like i'm piloting a flying casket. And how exactly we must fight sentients with the ship that can be easily turned into burning wreckage by the bunch of grineer fighters?

The ship itself must be crewed with at least eight players - one pilot, two gunners, one artillerist, two for crafting, patching and repelling boarders, and two in space on archwings. And in my opinion, for the beginners you must have missions with no space combat. Just jumping in, parking your railjack in asteroids, collecting resources inside the structures/in space and jumping out.

Really - railjack now is just not suited for space combat

Edited by Alukard661
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