(PC) Empyrean: Railjack Mission and Difficulty Feedback Megathread

[Zelmen]

After reflecting on my time in railjack mission I now have a new QOL suggestions. Can we please be invulnerable when changing from inside to outside ships. With the large range in ping I have seen from different hosts and the damage the ships can do to a player in archwing, a grace period is needed. Now it should have the restrictions of if the player moves or shoots it should end immediately but for the few seconds where the screen is blurred or loading we are safe. Balancing is a whole different topic but I think it should be at least fair to give players a chance to see the missiles incoming so they can shoot or dodge.

[Teliko_Freedman]

I didn't read any of the previous pages, but wanted to suggest:

 

The Free Flight mission used for training.

Since we don't get ANY materials for doing anything there.

I propose we should be allowed to use up any of our Ordnance, Ammunition, and Energy without actually dipping into our own supply.

Basically Free Flight being like the Simulacrum for experimentation and practice.

[nighter3d]

11 hours ago, Ikusias said:

- crewships keep fighting even after all their crew complement has been slayed;

- crewship missiles can lock on and kill tennos in archwing even when inside railjack catapult or during slingshot launch

- you can get downed leaving a disabled crewship because its turrets reamin active even with no crew

 

Question: When you say to kill the crew complement did you also kill the Gunner in the side room? That guy is rather easy to overlook as him alongside the pilot do NOT appear on enemy radar and do not abandon post until you knock them of it. Killing him leaves the crew-ship unable to fire missiles and has made my life a lot easier. That is assuming i'm rushing from one ship to another. Else i just Recall warp.

Also whenever i slingshot i get made Invulnerable during the process. idk how you get Killed during slingshot. shouldn't matter anymore though as they just made it that their missiles are no longer able to home in onto Archwings.

[Ikusias]

3 minutes ago, nighter3d said:

Question: When you say to kill the crew complement did you also kill the Gunner in the side room? That guy is rather easy to overlook as him alongside the pilot do NOT appear on enemy radar and do not abandon post until you knock them of it. Killing him leaves the crew-ship unable to fire missiles and has made my life a lot easier. That is assuming i'm rushing from one ship to another. Else i just Recall warp.

Also whenever i slingshot i get made Invulnerable during the process. idk how you get Killed during slingshot. shouldn't matter anymore though as they just made it that their missiles are no longer able to home in onto Archwings.

I can confirm the entire crew murdered: Khora +venari and smeeta kavat to open cabinets

Death during archwing launch occurred twice, the damage tanked while in flight was instantly applied when the frame materialized inside the crewship for some forsaken reason.

Archwing inside the laucher is not invulnerable or protected by the ship's armour and shields

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

Can you guys plaes make the zetki bulkhead, shields and armor mods have a higher drop chance there needed to even be able to survive in the veil and i realy want to go there but everytime i do my team ship ends up failing do to the lack of  health and shealds so iv been grindding for 3 days straight and still havent gotten any of theas mods with a drop booster on so can you guys pleas make it easyer to get the mods to increas your health, shields and armor on your railjack 

[Azrayle]

Tl;dr    of the whole thread: Railjack is fun, has much potenzial but you guys clearly did not playtest this outside of Devmode.

Veil Crewships that make enemys permanently unkillable (if you are not oneshotting them)

Enemy scaling that goes through the roof (not that it bothers me but everyone without earthsplitting gear will struggle with them)

Droppchance of crucial mods is just BAD in Railjack. i got more than 130 mk 3 weapons but not a single hullweave or bulkhead better than Lavan.

Playing with randoms is kinda frustrating most of the times they just refine ressources in the Ship and recraft no revolite wich is in saturn/veil a Deathsentence...

There are SO MANY Bugs. So much bullS#&$ mechanics. Im glad to be a "Pc beta tester"  and i did not play regular warframe in the last week to be honest.

Im enjoing this gamemode verry much.

 but holy damn its really  REALLY frustrating and i think i will take a break for now till the worst is fixed.

[dyewithasmile]

Sentients staying for essentially 1 run every 3 hrs ANd the bugs is a level of disgust that i didnt think this game could illicit... why punish ... NO NO NO you need EXTRA REWARD FOR RELEASES not less. every time i see a sentient arm cannon im gonna throw up a little like i do with nidus (173 fortress spy runs for nueroptics) PTSD

 

bugs are to be expected and anticipated by having an "extra reward release window" anything else is a disservice to players (bug report prizes? monthly bug reporter winner... 1 forma per crash idc Sumnt ... id even take a gesture or sumnt

[Ookitsu]

I know the new weapons parts will become pretty common when the new war comes out but right now it's a nightmare to do the mission because you have a very short time to run the mission. This then leads to basically everyone starting the mission, going straight for the ship then killing everything inside then if a part doesn't drop at all everyone bails or some leaving if the wrong part drops. The parts need to be moved to the skirmish rewards for the anomaly and actually have a good chance of seeing it or make a weapon part drop guaranteed off of the crystal or something.

[Lost_Cartographer]

Kosma Grineer troop base health is insane.  I can respect that we're up against smaller numbers of Grineer and so to compensate they should be made tougher, but at the current scaling they're effectively always double their level in effective HP (level 40 Kosma Elite Lancer = 80 Teal Elite Lancer, level 60 KEL = 120 TEL, 80 KEL = 160 TEL, etc.)  This is kind of absurd.  Why am I being shoehorned into a worldsplitting META builds just to take care of foot slogging cannon fodder?

To my knowledge the current formula for calculating health is as below;

Current Health = Base Health x (1 + (Current Level - Base Level)² x .015))

In level 60 Kosma terms before armor mitigation...

78,438 = 2500 x (1 + (60 - 15)² x .015)) 

By default, I'm already dealing with more raw health than an equal level teal lancer has WITH armor calculated into their effective health.  WTH?

I fiddled with the algorithm a bit and found something that brings it to an average of +15-20 levels over the Kosma Grineer's marked level, instead of double:

14119 = 2500 x (1 + (60 - 0)^1.5 x .01))

With armor mitigation, this amounts to effectively 60,328 hit points, or how much damage One has to spit out to kill them.  A far cry from the 335150 effective health of the current level 60 Kosma Grineer, but still 200% tougher than their standard counterparts (rough equivalent to standard level 80's,) which seems far more reasonable than nearly 1700%.  This algorithm largely holds up into the 100's.  I'm hoping your scaling algorithms aren't "one size fits all" and individual units can have custom setups, because the current RJ Grineer troops are just way too tough to be any fun.  My mind is checking out when I fight these guys, if I even do.  I'm either watching my gun chip away at a bar, or using a weapon and warframe that I don't like just because they're some of the few items in game that can stomp these guys into the ground regardless of their level.

  

Edited December 22, 2019 by Lost_Cartographer

[Chappie]

Please...PLEASE.  Make it so the anomaly is not available until AFTER the mission objectives have been complete.    I am really tired of the host or players just bum rushing the anomaly and then ditching.   This isn't fun...not in the slightest.

[Midas]

Running veil missions in literally 10-15 minutes, MK III ships are wildly perfect for the enemy level.

HOWEVER

I suggest you create more difficult enemies, simple renewal cannot outscale my frost shotgun Railjack.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Midas

[Ikusias]

Ok, what the hell happened? just coming out of a mission in the Veil were Cephalon Cy unilaterally decided the mission was failed and pulled me out. What the Hell?

Went trough 25-30 something fighters and the like, leaving the 2 currently spawned crewship for lather, so as to being able to board those without my ship beyiong sunk while away (flying solo currently), secondary objectives were pulse turbine and shipkiller station.

Why I got pulled out like that?

By the way MK III clan weapons invalidate any progression DE wanted us to make, there's no reason to trudge around with the lesser marks instead of pursuing MK III from the start - trivializing earth and saturn proxima.

Some issues with crewship health spheres making units permanently invincible from time to time, got an elite outrider rendered unkillable like this... considering that it could have dropped something nice it's infuriating

[(PSN)palebluelight]

I think it’s super retarded way of doing things why double there stats call them an enemy with half the lvl and think that difficulty. It’s just a stupid bullet sponge. These need a massive nerf or just clearly mark them lvl 120 instead of 60. Corrosive doesn’t even matter these guys testing at levels 135 only take big damage from crit. 

[Guest]

A drifter's Empyrian feedback

It's brilliant; A good example of how to make fun co-op.
I'm thoroughly enjoying it. Worst issue I've had, really, is needing to turn anti-aliasing off to reduce crashes, and limiting myself to 3 run rounds.

 

• From this Expansion on, it would be nice to see a bug board - something DE has accepted is happening. If well promoted, and linked to a megathread, I like to think it would cut down your need to trawl the countless threads and reposts.
• Exiting stations/RailJack into archwing should have a few seconds of invulnerability - you often get killed before the screen fade is finished, e.g. leaving the RailJack as a crew ship is pounding it.
• Every weapon except the cryophon seems a bit under powered. Might be the other way round, but the rest of the weapons could use some improvement.
• Grineer troops seem to have a lot of HPs - scans are telling me 200 armour/150 hps for ground based elite lancers, vs 200 armour/2500 hps for the space version. It's the same with the rest of the troop types. That is one hell of an increase; It's certainly more challenging.
• The default aim sensitivity for RailJack artillery seems a bit high, and the zoom a bit low. Falloff range is also not well presented - you know, when you hit a crew ship at extreme range and it takes a third of its hitpoints, but you know you're capable of one-shotting them at aggro range.
• Seems a bit of a waste to repair tier II gear, when tier III Tenno research is so much better, and easier to resource.
• Would be nice if engineer reclaim intrinsic (9) worked on scrapping.
• Dropped weapon RNG is pretty awful in terms of ranges, making much more of a waiting game.
• Carcinnox "confusion" is a nice idea, but really should have vastly increased range. At the moment, by the time things get into range to be gunked, they're already firing at you.
• Particle ram needs to only show for the pilot. It's a pretty parasol, but it just obscures the aim of gunners and artillery.
• Scrapping avionics needs to exclude the one(s) you have installed. I scrapped all except 1 in a stack of 12, thinking it would leave my installed one. It scrapped the one I had install and upgraded, and left a random one.
• My ship grid was maxed very quickly. Seemed very trivial to do - I hope there any other plans for using Dirac, as I've almost obsoleted it in the first week.
• A damage bonus for using artillery and hitting certain parts of a crew ship would be nice.
• Artillery is severely impaired as an option in Veil Proxima, even with maxed forward artillery - too many shots required, and not enough resources.
• The avionics Conic Nozzle, and Ripload seem pretty redundant. The speed boost on Conic Nozzle is weak, and I can't find a use for Ripload. As for Winged Steel, Winged Cyclone, Winged Storm, Winged Force - most of the best archwing upgrades are covered by intrinsics, and seem to have far too little range to be any use.
• Not immediately discernible whether one avionic is better than another - e.g. I have one might with lower starting stats, but is more upgrade-able. At the moment, it's a bit of a chore to work out which avionics mod is better.
• Not sure if dome charge capacity ever gets upgraded, and a significant increase to damage, but it's far cheaper to slingshot, even though it's way more satisfying to use artillery 😄 bigger guns! more damage! muhahahahhahaha!
• Because it's usually a one-tenno adventure, it would be nice if loot dropped in stations/galleons/platforms was shared, rather than being personal.
• Having "side" mission objectives as " must kill <x> targets" will always force us down the max damage route. Kill 8 crew ships? Meh, ok - if I have to. Kill 2 and optionally 4 to get a decent bonus? Sure, if I'm in the market for more resources.
• For a fast-paced co-op battle, the length of time some animations take is literally killing us

Edited December 23, 2019 by Guest
...gotta stop calling them perks...

[0verridden]

I am posting this here since i assume it does not warrant a separate post per say as of yet.

 

 

Tactics Deployment Location

if I remember correctly in the previous demonstrations, there were times whereby we were told that the team was 'connected' within a mission - i.e. someone on the railjack could support the away team (presumably using Tactics). As of right now, I do not think we are able to deploy Ability Kinesis to anyone who is on say, on an enemy ship or within an objective. Is that possibly coming sometime soon? Right now skills are only deployed within the Railjack.

 

Turns out we can deploy our skills wherever our teammates are. Just click Tab while in L mode (Tactical mode). Excellent. Credits to @ShakeyMac for being awesome at pointing this out.

 

Ability Kinesis Skills (Tactics Level 2)

Secondly, I understand some like me might have misunderstood when Scott mentioned in a Devstream that Warframes have their own 'unique' skills that they can deploy in Empyrean as new skills. I had assumed that these skills would not be just one of the 4 skills that the warframes already have, cast with the Railjack's energy. Mostly because this idea doesn't work well with some frames. For example, Limbo's Ability Kinesis is Cataclysm. Just cataclysm. I have yet to fully experiment with this, but if the Limbo in the party does not have his stasis on, then there really isn't a point to this is there? The mobs would just be mildly inconvenienced and keep moving on, exit the bubble and wreak whatever havoc they wish to. I presume this will be developed in the future?

 

+ Additional Note: I just tried Limbo out with RJ, and I realised something phenomenal. So Limbo is and probably always will remain a polarising frame. But the reason why I believe Ability Kinesis being just a copy of one of the frames' abilities is bad is because now anyone in the party can actually make a Cataclysm to stop people from using the Slingshot. So perhaps, I dunno, DE could we please get new abilities that follow the theme of frames that can be casted and give a more straightforward benefit to the party in proximity to that casted power?? In fact, back in the days where players apparently had to use mods to select what warframe powers they could bring? What about doing that for Railjack? More work? Yes. But it would add some seriously impressive depth to RJ gameplay, instead of casting directly copied warframe powers. You could have at least 1 new skill that each warframe automatically gets as a result of being a participant on Railjack. Limbo could for eg could rift the railjack for a short period of time... Some frames are actually already decent away team supports with their standard warframe abilities. Some really aren't.

 

Mission Types

I understand that this has probably already been said numerous times, but having only one mission type over Christmas is brutal. Secondly, whatever happened to the mission type that you showed in a Tennocon where the members just entered a tower exploration kind of mission to explicity discover technology? While some commented that the mission seemed simple, that doesn't mean we necessarily prefer the old method of killing mobs and getting the technology as a drop chance. For once, we could add some purpose to having sabotage, spy or hiijack missions, but with some Railjack flair.

 

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by 0verridden

[Sunai_Moonswing]

Finally got to the veil. Been soloing a lot. It's... Much easier than I thought: move 5kms from nearest spawn, power up the particle ram, fire into wings of fighters. They leave the 3km range of crew ships, we dogfight, I maybe suffer a hull rupture or two. Then go from crew ship to crew ship via archwing and slingshot.

Once crew ships are gone, I get into the asteroid fields, get surpised by fighters spawning WAAAY too close. I'm thinking that if they weren't spawning behind me, guns blazing, they'd spawn inside my ram. 

I can really feel the lower drop chances for ship parts and dirak. I'm glad I got what I needed most before that. A basic, maxed out particle ram. 

 

As far as difficulty goes it's pretty balanced, maybe Veil fighters need something more? In terms of speed and evasive maneuvers. Or... Is it just because they're Grineer fighter craft? 

 

I'm saying this because my Vidar MK1 engine doesn't seem to need any more speed to handle those fighters. Boosting keeps me at their speed, their movements become predictable.. They're space planes going up against a space helicopter.

When the fighters initially swarm, and fire a barage of gunfire and missiles, the RJ gets punished if the pilot doesn't evade. (usually as simple as drifting to one side then boosting forward).

 

I'm still concerned with rookie crews. For them it must be very difficult. 

[ShakeyMac]

14 hours ago, 0verridden said:

I am posting this here since i assume it does not warrant a separate post per say as of yet.

 

 

Tactics Deployment Location

if I remember correctly in the previous demonstrations, there were times whereby we were told that the team was 'connected' within a mission - i.e. someone on the railjack could support the away team (presumably using Tactics). As of right now, I do not think we are able to deploy Ability Kinesis to anyone who is on say, on an enemy ship or within an objective. Is that possibly coming sometime soon? Right now skills are only deployed within the Railjack.

 

Ability Kinesis Skills (Tactics Level 2)

Secondly, I understand some like me might have misunderstood when Scott mentioned in a Devstream that Warframes have their own 'unique' skills that they can deploy in Empyrean as new skills. I had assumed that these skills would not be just one of the 4 skills that the warframes already have, cast with the Railjack's energy. Mostly because this idea doesn't work well with some frames. For example, Limbo's Ability Kinesis is Cataclysm. Just cataclysm. I have yet to fully experiment with this, but if the Limbo in the party does not have his stasis on, then there really isn't a point to this is there? The mobs would just be mildly inconvenienced and keep moving on, exit the bubble and wreak whatever havoc they wish to. I presume this will be developed in the future?

 

Regarding your first note, once you unlock Tactics 5, the Chase Camera, you can tab between people and see exactly what they are doing, and then apply Kinesis to their local area.  A small map of their area appears when you tab to them and select which ability you want to use.  I use this quite frequently as Gara to apply the dmg reduction from Splinter Storm to my away team members.

I'm not certain how it works for ranks prior to rank 5 however, but you can try opening the L tactics menu and tabbing over to people.  Maybe it brings up a mini-map even if you can't see exactly what they are doing in real time like with the chase camera.

[Gildarsh]

Things to Improve:

1. Being able to destroy the crewship with just the gun and not needing to use the forward artillery or boarding it. Currently there a JOB called Boarder in the team because of this.  

2. The forward artillery should have a wide beam like arca plasmor. I hate it when i hit the engine of the crewship with the forward artillery and it does 240k damage but it did not destroy the crewship.  Fix the zooming mechanics of the artillery as well. 

3. I hate that you can only carry 30 Wreckage Armaments. It should be unlimited like what we have in our regular inventory. It is less hassle.  

4. I hate the Lavan, Vidar, Zetki concept. It creates more confusion for the sake of "creative" artificial difficulty. You might as well name is Tier 1, 2, and 3. You can improve this by making polar opposite stats like the corrupt mods. 

5. You should be able to control all 4 of the forge without running around to each one of them as it takes time and it is not even fun. 

6. It would be nice if the RailJack is as tough as the crewship so that the players would feel secure inside. Railjack have initial 1k HP. You might as well ride behind Inaros that have 8k HP.  Why can't you just make the engine, gun, forge vulnerable to the damages instead of random part of the ship? If engine is broken, the RJ will not be able to move. And if Guns is broken it won't be able to shoot, and etc. The Solo player will only have to worry about fixing the one in front of him. 

7. Can you get rid of the animations when boarding the crewship using the slingshot?
 

 

 

 

[AuntieDone]

my experience with this, after just now finally finishing building the rail jack due to thinking it didnt come out until empyrean did:
-Trying to join a public railjack mission on the first node puts me in solo no matter what, the only time someone did join, they left less than 30 seconds afterwards.
-The enemies take such a small amount of damage compared to how much they do and it is literally impossible to do anything about it from my point of view.
-The omni tool having limited resources and different wait times for it to fix things is very confusing and angering. the fact that i have no idea how to make more resources due to there not being a tutorial is also maddening.
-On that topic, not knowing even half of what im supposed to do kills the entire fun mood i was in before i started this, id really like to know what to do and not to fail the first node several times within the first minute of the mission.
-The fact that you have to unlock certain parts of the ship is cool, but i cant even tell when i level up, i think i hear a noise for that like normal, but i fail the mission so i dont even know if it stuck. the fact that i cant do anything in this first mission is very infuriating and i hope a lot of the complaints about this are fixed soon.

Edit: forgot to mention these things.
-I personally think that having to pay almost 300 plat just to customize the railjack is a little much, especially when you consider the fact that you cant change its color or how much wear it has either way.
-I'd also like a way to see the railjack's level/fighter level somewhere, as i either havent figured out where to see that, or it just isnt there.
-I agree with what someone else said, specifically how railjack missions always spit you back out at your dojo's spawn instead of anywhere near the dry dock. i think it should put you either at the dry dock or the railjack itself, because some people might not even have teleporter pads set up for teleporting to the dry dock.

Second Edit: found where the customization and upgrades are, specifically the configuration console in the dojo.

Edited December 23, 2019 by AuntieDone
found out where some of this is

[Trumbles]

The base stats of enemy crew seem ridiculously high. This becomes a real problem in Veil Proxima, as the level 90 grineer crew are MUCH stronger than normal level 90 enemies. This is pretty much forcing people into either using invisiblity to just ignore them when doing side objectives, or using chroma/rubico just to put a dent in the enemies.

[j1r2000]

I want to see more mission types for rail jack here are some examples I thought of:
RJ rescue- docking into an enemy ship having half of your team defending it well the other half goes off to rescue someone

RJ escape - If you fail a mission in your instead of getting off scot free you and your team get captured and need to be rescued. if it was your rail jack that got captured once your safe you're gonna need to retake your ship and the rescuers get a good reward for rescuing another tenno

RJ survival - one team mate raids a ship(or multiples) and the ship come and go; and the rj crew make as much noise outside to keep fire off of the lone tenno inside but can acendly bite off more than they can chew

[0verridden]

16 hours ago, ShakeyMac said:

Regarding your first note, once you unlock Tactics 5, the Chase Camera, you can tab between people and see exactly what they are doing, and then apply Kinesis to their local area.  A small map of their area appears when you tab to them and select which ability you want to use.  I use this quite frequently as Gara to apply the dmg reduction from Splinter Storm to my away team members.

I stand very corrected. Thank you! That actually makes me happy 🙂

[Elyann]

On 2019-12-12 at 9:12 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Empyrean: Railjack Mission and Difficulty Feedback Megathread

Use this megathread to post all of your mission-based feedback for Railjack. This can include enemies, the mission mode itself, difficulty level and anything that falls into the mission modes overall.

Please remember to keep your feedback civil, constructive and succinct. It doesn’t help us find issues or know what you enjoy if you do not explain clearly what you do or do not like, why you do or do not like it, and what you would like to see differently if you dislike a system.

Have fun, and let us know what you think!
 

Buff orokin cells drop rates back up to how they used to be , running 20 waves defense mission with nekros AND a kavat on Ceres or Saturn only just to get 1-2 of them is not fun.

I understand that you may want to push people into purchasing more boosters with the recent changes ( to resources drop rates , to loot specific warframes and to other components of the game ) but this will only make your community get pissed .


Years ago the community was promised less grind while in truth the grind has only just increased ( with specters of the rail , plains of eidolon , the grind for rivens , focus schools and kuva , fortuna , the kuva liches update and now railjack ) . Soften the grinding a bit.

[(XBOX)DarknessZeref]

On 2019-12-12 at 3:12 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Have fun, and let us know what you think!
 

#1 Thing is that I'm doing JUST THAT. Having fun! 

As a veteran player with a lot of ideas, I'm shocked to say my only big fix is pilot permissions

Similarly to GTA V, I want to designate who may pilot my ship between anyone, clan, clan/alliance and self. 

Why?

Imagine taking down galleons in less than 15 minutes a part when a random decides to hijack your mk 3 ship and run it directly into a fleet with 3 crewships. This happened back to back to back. Ultimately, it was just easier to run with 2 people than 4 since they were more interested in flying around with an upgraded ship then actually being a productive crew member. One even had the gall to pilot my ship across space into battle, not give up the reins until after I left the railjack and gunned everything down and continue to tell me not to leave my railjack in combat if I didn't want someone else to pilot it. Sir I left it in the vacuum of space -_-

To give you some perspective, those two missions took 36 and 45 minutes respectively. JUST because we had to abandon objectives to repair my poor Amaterasu. 
Since we can't kick people, just give us control over who may pilot our own ships when we launch and we're good. I'll let the nit-picky people make suggestions on other things I'm having a great time! Phenomenal stuff.
 

[(XBOX)DarknessZeref]

On 2019-12-23 at 6:02 PM, Trumbles said:

The base stats of enemy crew seem ridiculously high. This becomes a real problem in Veil Proxima, as the level 90 grineer crew are MUCH stronger than normal level 90 enemies. This is pretty much forcing people into either using invisiblity to just ignore them when doing side objectives, or using chroma/rubico just to put a dent in the enemies.

Not quite ridiculous, with the right build you can both survive and thrive. The real issue is the crewship I JUST destroyed auto sniping me when I leave and 1-2 shotting me multiple times eating up my revives. That thing really threatens failure.
I can chalk up your concern to "get ya weight up Tenno", but getting tapped through Amesha's invincibility is just insurmountable.