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(PC) Empyrean: Intrinsics Feedback Megathread

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Empyrean: Intrinsics Feedback Megathread

Use this megathread to post all of your feedback on the Intrinsics system, including the bonuses, rate of acquisition, gameplay changes and anything else related to this new system of advancement.

Please remember to keep your feedback civil, constructive and succinct. It doesn’t help us find issues or know what you enjoy if you do not explain clearly what you do or do not like, why you do or do not like it, and what you would like to see differently if you dislike a system.

Have fun, and let us know what you think!
 

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Repair Feedback:

  • How to repair needs to be more clearly told to the user. 

I feel Hull breach \ Fire mechanism feels too redundant - they essentially are the same thing but ones on the floor and once in the wall. That pretty much is the only real thing that separates the two in terms of mechanics. 

Spray -> Foam

One interesting change would be to change the Spray to Foam ( Stug life ) 

Foam acts a fire retardant and "temporarily" seals hull breaches - to allow you to put out fires and seal breaches. 
Then using something similar to the Original Mining Mechanic ( without the shape disappearing ) using a laser to repair to hull breach permanently. 

Icon switches between Red \ Yellow based on stage of repair. 

Red = not Sealed

Yellow = Stealed Temporarily but not Repaired

 

Exit Mechanic:

Instead of Requiring everyone to enter ship. Exit mechanic should simply be once mission is complete some one goes to Navigation terminal ( where you choose a mission ) then activate "Exit" this starts a count down timer of 60s to "return to ship" If everyone is on ship it exits immediately. 

If some one is outside they have 60s to return to the ship. 
If you don't enter ship within 60s the railjack leaves the area and a "beacon" is left at its place. Allowing the remaining person to leave at anytime via the beacon. 

Edited by xxswatelitexx
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Is there a way to access the Intrinsics menu without a console somewhere? 

Also, it isn't immediately obvious that:

  1. You can view what each rank of Intrinsics gives you
  2. Very basic features such as boost and target leading are in the first ranks of Piloting and Gunnery

Which may result in a rather questionable first impression for some

Edited by continue

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Compared to the statement in the last dev stream, implying it taking longer than a week to max them all out, acquisition is much too fast, Your regular player (who also has a railjack) going about a successful grind could max all 4 in a week on accident. Not a problem per say, just an acknowledgement.

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There needs to be more things you can do at rank zero, its not fun to wander around a ship with everything locked off because you just started.

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@[DE]Bear Why cant non Railjack owners have Intrinsics? Is this a bug or are others without Railjacks completely screwed?

Edit: turns out you can by accessing the intrinsics menu through your profile. This needs to be made aware to the masses ASAP.

Edited by DariusMcSwag
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Obviously this is just first impressions as I have not actually used most of the Intrinsic perks, but something is something.

  • Being able to right click the Intrinsic to see the full breakdown is absolutely amazing. I know it is not Intrinsics themselves, but the Intrinsic UI is 10/10.
    • Well, being able to access Intrinsics for those without a Railjack should be a bit more obvious.
  • Engineering looks rather meh. I mean, sure, some of the first few are vital, but after that the majority of perks look very underwhelming. Most of the perks feel like they are filling holes instead of making you more of a bad-arse Engineer. That said, the rank 10 perk for Engineering looks absolutely busted (in a good way), but you shouldn't have to wade through a bunch of underwhelming rewards to get there (especially given that it will take such a long time).
    • To clarify, it is less that the perks for Engineering are "bad" and more that they are boring. The other Intrinsic get new ways to play but Engineering just gets more number.
      • Tactical gives 6 new gameplay abilities
      • Piloting gives 5 new gameplay abilities
      • Gunnery gives 7 new gameplay abilities
      • Engineering gives 4 new gameplay abilities
  • Tactical seems solid, although Recall War (warp back to ship) is such a major buff for every play type that it will likely be a "mandatory mod". If anything Recall Warp would make more sense in Gunnery as far as playstyle goes, every role wants an abort button equally. Either this ability should be available to everyone or it should be the first/second upgrade from Tactical.
  • Piloting looks rather good around the board (rank 10 looks like a good time). Rank 9 looks a bit undertuned, but I'd have to feel it out to be sure (which isn't happening anytime soon).
  • Gunnery also looks solid. Having the big canon be locked behind rank 5 of an Intrinsic does suck though as it seems to be a major part of the gameplay, for this one I would probably just like to see it moved to be a bit earlier of an unlock.

 

One final side suggestion. After going through all of the Intrinsic ranks again, it has become more clear that there is one pretty big flaw. Each have ham-fisted "away team" abilities. It doesn't make sense that a Tactical Intrinsic would allow you to Blink faster, you are supposed to be handling Tactical. It doesn't make sense that a Piloting Intrinsic buffs your Archwing speed, you're supposed to be piloting the Railjack.

Thus, I would actually like to see an entirely separate "Archwing" Intrinsic category. Something that enhances abilities of a person who is off of the Railjack. And because the "away team" experience is likely something everyone wants to partake in, it should be ranked up in conjunction with the other Intrinsic. So for every Intrinsic point you put into any Intrinsic category you automatically rank up your "Archwing" Intrinsic. The game is still called Warframe, you shouldn't have to separately specialize into typical Warframe gameplay (away-team gameplay).

  • If this happens, I think it would actually be fitting to shift Recall Warp and even Join Warp to that new Intrinsic category as those two jobs have more to do with being an away-team member than managing tactical systems. Maybe give rank 10 tactical a new ability to temporarily 'overpower' ship systems, or let it cast abilities for free on a cooldown.
Edited by DrBorris

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Gunnery 1's lead indicator is basically necessary for any sort of long range gun combat in Railjack, and feels like it should be innate rather than an Intrinsic.

In fact, in general it feels like a lot of core capabilities that should be inherent to Railjacks are locked behind Intrinsic level-ups, like dodging, lead indicators, and access to many of the forge options. I think those should be implemented as core capabilities that you get from the start, and replaced with some other things. Passive bonuses would be entirely fine.

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Non-Railjack owners should be allowed to access Intrinsics. They are Tenno-based skills, not part of your Railjack. The tier 1 Intrinsics all feel like they should be baseline, as well.

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you need 1+2+4+8+16+32+64+128+256+516=1023 just to max 1 tree there is 5 

so 5115 to max all of them that a insane amount

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1 hour ago, Colyeses said:

Non-Railjack owners should be allowed to access Intrinsics. They are Tenno-based skills, not part of your Railjack. The tier 1 Intrinsics all feel like they should be baseline, as well.

They can, though I have to say it's under a weird menu. 

First you need to be on your landing craft, and then you will find the Intrinsics option under Profile.

Perhaps if this were to be moved into the menu within the Railjack, outside of missions, or in the dry-dock, it could prevent the misunderstanding that those without railjacks are unable to use these perks.

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Edited by Draeconics
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Piloting seems very lacking.

Some of the good gunner perks do not affect pilot's gun

Tactical level 5 is useless because you can't really stop to see other crew members in the chaos of battle. As cool as it is to watch other people do things, it should give something more...you really can't afford to wait around looking at what others do while your ship is breaking apart and damage needs to be put out constantly.

A way to respect would be appreciated and very useful.

Edited by Domaik

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7 hours ago, TheChaotic1 said:

There needs to be more things you can do at rank zero, its not fun to wander around a ship with everything locked off because you just started.

Bruh you only need to do that for 1 mission and then you have multiple intrinsics to rank stuff up.

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12 hours ago, Ooabavuat said:

Compared to the statement in the last dev stream, implying it taking longer than a week to max them all out, acquisition is much too fast, Your regular player (who also has a railjack) going about a successful grind could max all 4 in a week on accident. Not a problem per say, just an acknowledgement.

Costs double for every subsequent level. You're looking at 1024 Intrinsics for a level 10 in any individual category. This adds up fast, and it means everyone is going to be a generalist when specialising is THIS much more expensive.

 

On topic:
The engineering Intrinsic abilities lack clarity in a lot of cases. What does "better forge yield" actually constitute? Do I use up less in the way of resources or build more in the way of product, and if so by how much? That sort of thing.

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Intrinsics should not be just for the railjack owners. It not only defeats the purpose of having a 'crew' if they're stuck as level 0 crew members, but it also excludes people from being able to fully explore empyrean's content without building a railjack of their own, which then just makes the railjack an arbitrary content gate. If you have a crew of four, they shouldn't ALL need to have their own railjacks to be a productive team, they should be able to craft them at their own pace while working with the player(s) who do have their railjacks ready. 

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Intrinsics are absolutely great - you guys managed the impossible by making all of the trees desirable and all of the skills impactful and interesting. Some of them are serious game-changers to the ship-crew genre, like the 360 degree turrets (especially combined with counter-rotation).

However, the costs are a little bit weird. The total costs are fine, but right now the system feels like it's pulling in two different directions. We were told that the system was supposed to reward specialization, that's clearly one of the main ideas, and the prerequisites for the later Proximas push that idea too. But the costs pull in the other direction - if I push down Gunnery, by the time I'm looking at rank 6 or 7, I could pick up several more lower-level powers in other trees, and the level 6 or 7 powers are good, but they're not so much better that they're better than grabbing several other powers that are also good.

Right now, the obvious thing to do is to mostly spread your points out. You get way, way more benefit from doing that than pushing down one tree since the cost of breadth is so much lower than the cost of depth.

It should be the opposite: breadth should be expensive, depth should be (relatively) cheap. Rather than costs increasing so dramatically as you go down a line, costs should increase modestly, and the place you see more significant costs should be when you're moving down different trees. So something like: if you start going down Gunnery, then level 2 Gunnery costs 2, and level 4 Gunnery costs 4, but once you have level 2 Gunnery, then getting level 2 Piloting on top of that costs 4. So rather than each rank costing so much more than the last, the thing that should cost more is getting ranks in other trees: your first rank 2 is relatively cheap, then your second rank 2 is more expensive, and your fourth rank 2 is the most expensive.

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i play a mission, results roll it says i have 9 pts and then i leave dojo , go and see i have 6 pts why? where did my other 3 go?

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Pilot tree feels lacking.

Tactical level 5 is a waste of time, it's nearly useless.

 

Overall I think there's a lot of potential here for crazy things. Make radical cool changes like engineers carrying lots of gear and portable forges on their back and cool things like that. Make gunners have a cool aiming visor equipped or things like that.

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Honestly, I feel like we should switch Intrinsics around a bit, or rather, shuffle the abilities and gameplay additions to the bottom, and push the long-term buffs and benefits towards the top. This way, it's possible to enjoy all the features Railjack has to offer early on, with the long-term implications being that you become better at what you do and able to last longer.

And yes, a whole 'Archwing' Intrinsic that ranks up alongside your others as you work on another tree does sound like a good compromise. In its place in the other trees you could give stuff like "25% Damage Bonus while on Turret" or "30% more Shield while on Helm", something that intrinsically buffs and benefits your role as an actual crewmember dedicated to your role.

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The doubling of the cost every time feels way too steep especially considering what you get out of some of the rank ups. Some definitely do not feel worth 32+ Intrinsics. Not to mention the final tier costing 516.

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I very much like the idea of specializations. My concern however is about being able to max all of them! I mean... what's the point of specializations if you can be master at everything? Why all of them can be ranked to max? It should be actual specialization. For example, I chose to be Engineer so i have access to all 10 ranks in Engineer tree, but it makes other specializations limited to let's say... Piloting rank 5, Gunnery rank 3, Tactical rank 0. So a master Engineer can't drive like professional, use guns like specialized Gunner, not to mention about tactical thinking. He still can do that stuff, but can't be master at everything.

Edited by Sebith

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While the descriptions do help a bit - some are really vague. Some examples:

  • Unless you read about it here on the forums, you won't know the L-button exists for Tactical rank 1.
  • What does more "yield" really mean, from the Engineering upgrades, in detail? I know I want it (more loot always sounds good, no doubt), but what does it actually do? Is it only a boost if I use it? Or is it for everyone, regardless who does it?
  • Artillery Cannon, some people don't understand that it's the place behind the pilot seat.
  • Slingshot - I didn't even know it existed until I saw the description, and even so, had no clue WHERE - until I randomly bulletjumped up to the top department, as there's no natural way up there (the way up really doesn't look like a bridge or anything)
  • Forge - I had highlevel mission partakers not knowing what to do when I said "make more Revolite, you know, Omni-ammo", even if they know what I meant otherwise. The lack of tutorial is surely telling.
Edited by Azamagon

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Rank 10 Engineer - Anastasis

PLEASE CHANGE THIS.  This will ruin Railjack for most engineers.  Most of the fun comes from running around patching stuff up on the ship like a chicken with their head cut off!  If you remove that ability, and make it so the meta is standing in one place, remotely patching something, then just jumping back on the gun, it takes so much away from being an engineer.

So I beg you DE, please change this to something else.  Maybe spend some resources to fortify the hull to reduce the amount of breaks or something, idk.  Just not remote repairs.

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3 hours ago, Klaleara said:

Rank 10 Engineer - Anastasis

PLEASE CHANGE THIS.  This will ruin Railjack for most engineers.  Most of the fun comes from running around patching stuff up on the ship like a chicken with their head cut off!  If you remove that ability, and make it so the meta is standing in one place, remotely patching something, then just jumping back on the gun, it takes so much away from being an engineer.

So I beg you DE, please change this to something else.  Maybe spend some resources to fortify the hull to reduce the amount of breaks or something, idk.  Just not remote repairs.

This actually seems to be a trend with intrinsics.

IE Gunner lvl 10 automatically locks onto lead indicator when aiming so all you have to do is hold two buttons and that's it. Makes gunner a glorified automatic turret.

Imho making capstone abilities remove all of the player skill and gameplay is weird. They should enhance the playstyle not remove it.

Edited by LocoWithGun
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