Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

(PC) Empyrean: Intrinsics Feedback Megathread


SilverBones
 Share

Recommended Posts

50 minutes ago, LocoWithGun said:

This actually seems to be a trend with intrinsics.

IE Gunner lvl 10 automatically locks onto lead indicator when aiming so all you have to do is hold two buttons and that's it. Makes gunner a glorified automatic turret.

Imho making capstone abilities remove all of the player skill and gameplay is weird. They should enhance the playstyle not remove it.

My brain translated that as "Snap to" and instantly release.  Not just keep following, but what you said makes way more sense.  Ya, that needs to be removed ASAP.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tactical Intrinsic Level 3: Command Link

I'd like to be able to use the Command Link features when not in a Gunner or Pilot cockpit. Right now, fast travelling within the vessel usually means I need to "slow travel" to a nearby terminal first to get to another one, which kind of defeats the purpose of fast travel. Being able to pull up the tactical menu while anywhere in vessel would be nice.

Also, and I'm not if this is a bug or I'm just not doing it right, attempting to warp from one cockpit to another often just plays the warp slide and doesn't teleport me. I'm still just locked in the chair.

Edited by SenorClipClop
Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 минут назад, SenorClipClop сказал:

Tactical Intrinsic Level 3: Command Link

I'd like to be able to use the Command Link features when not in a Gunner or Pilot cockpit. Right now, fast travelling within the vessel usually means I need to "slow travel" to a nearby terminal first to get to another one, which kind of defeats the purpose of fast travel. Being able to pull up the tactical menu while anywhere in vessel would be nice.

Also, and I'm not if this is a bug or I'm just not doing it right, attempting to warp from one cockpit to another often just plays the warp slide and doesn't teleport me. I'm still just locked in the chair.

Press L.

Edit: i'm not sure what you talking about cuz my fast travel works from anywhere in the ship via tac menu.

Edited by Miyabi-sama
Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, ViciousTeletuby said:

Every time I finish a mission I see a nice amount of intrinsics awarded, only to find half of that available when I try to allocate it. It is the most annoying part of this system to me personally. 

Here's a thread on this.

Here here.  I just finished a mission where I was babysitting the ship because it kept blowing up every 10 seconds.  We finally finished it and I get 17 intrinsics.  "Nice! That will be more than enough to rank up my gunnery skill!" I think.  Nope! I only have 12 total!  I had around 7 or so before I started, I hadn't checked in a bit so I can't be precise.

You know that stupid amount of intrinsics we need might not be so bad if the game didn't keep stealing all of them from us.  As it is the cost to get to the higher tiers in just ONE school is pretty insane.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of the four intrinsic schools, I feel the piloting chain offers the least in terms of game value, Command, Gunnery and Engineering all seem to have around equal value and can be quite hard to pick which to focus on... Whereas when I look at piloting, it just simply doesn't offer me much within general railjack gameplay.. For one any given mission, there is only one railjack pilot at any given time. Granted if I go hijack a grinner crewship, there are more pilots going around, but it isn't immediate obvious if the piloting tree provides any bonus to piloting the hijacked grinner crewship or not!

I feel the piloting intrinsic tree would be significantly more worth consideration for the general player if the tree offered a lot more in terms of impact whilst in archwing mode, piloting the railjack and a hijacked crewship..

Right now of the four trees, Piloting is the one I pretty much ignore... Command is universally useful, Gunnery is probably a very close second, followed by Engineering... I think there would be more balance between the trees if rank bonuses effecting archwing found in these three other intrinsic chains were moved to piloting

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if this is intended or just a bug, but gunnery intrinsics don't seem to apply to crew ships. I feel like they should since the turret on crew ships would benefit greatly from the 3D targeting you can get on railjack turrets. If they are supposed to apply, they currently are not for me. 

I don't have them yet so I can't speak from experience, but I feel that the ones that apply to Archwing aren't good enough. Archwing in general may just need a balance pass and definitely need QoL changes to their abilities, so maybe if you do a pass on Archwing overall the buffs you can get from intrinsics will seem more useful. 

I've gotten a lot of use out of Tactical rank 4 since it's currently the only solution to some bugs that trap you in various places. 

Piloting might feel better once the bugs with the stamina bar are fixed. It's really annoying that it doesn't start regenerating until you manually toggle it off, even when it's empty and no longer doing anything.

My level is too low currently to have tried any of the potentially more interesting higher level ones. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2019-12-14 at 3:53 PM, Modus-Pwnens said:

Intrinsics are absolutely great - you guys managed the impossible by making all of the trees desirable and all of the skills impactful and interesting. Some of them are serious game-changers to the ship-crew genre, like the 360 degree turrets (especially combined with counter-rotation).

However, the costs are a little bit weird. The total costs are fine, but right now the system feels like it's pulling in two different directions. We were told that the system was supposed to reward specialization, that's clearly one of the main ideas, and the prerequisites for the later Proximas push that idea too. But the costs pull in the other direction - if I push down Gunnery, by the time I'm looking at rank 6 or 7, I could pick up several more lower-level powers in other trees, and the level 6 or 7 powers are good, but they're not so much better that they're better than grabbing several other powers that are also good.

Right now, the obvious thing to do is to mostly spread your points out. You get way, way more benefit from doing that than pushing down one tree since the cost of breadth is so much lower than the cost of depth.

It should be the opposite: breadth should be expensive, depth should be (relatively) cheap. Rather than costs increasing so dramatically as you go down a line, costs should increase modestly, and the place you see more significant costs should be when you're moving down different trees. So something like: if you start going down Gunnery, then level 2 Gunnery costs 2, and level 4 Gunnery costs 4, but once you have level 2 Gunnery, then getting level 2 Piloting on top of that costs 4. So rather than each rank costing so much more than the last, the thing that should cost more is getting ranks in other trees: your first rank 2 is relatively cheap, then your second rank 2 is more expensive, and your fourth rank 2 is the most expensive.

that or make every intrinsics a fixed amount expensiver than the last one - regardless of which skill tree. e.g. 1st piloting cost 1, 2nd piloting cost 2... then you take gunnery 1st which then would cost already 3 points. next you take piloting the 3rd which now cost 4 but would have cost 3 if you had taken it before the last upgarde of gunnery. in this example we would have to pay 500 points when all 5 skill trees are available and maxed out - ofc, instead of 1 cost per skill, it could be 2 - then we would have to pay also around 1000 points. the difference is like you already said: depth is cheaper than breadth - IF one is starting to first specialize in one skill tree and then expand into others. usually, it would still be a mix since there are some skills we just can't ignore for some QoL or even to be able to survive the missions later on.

well, if DE really want to make us suffer, i guess it would be 5 points more per skill - to get close to what we now face... in any case, i'm not too amused about this current quadratic cost increase - though i don't know yet how much intrinsics points we can earn in the highest level missions (might be we get tons of points there, though i somewhat doubt this ^^)

Edited by fr4gb4ll
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think an increase of the ship's hold cap would be nice too put into an intrinsics (likely engineering). also, one that let us do the refining and the payload opertion be done from maybe the pilot seat or at least the bridge - might be put in in either engineering or piloting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Intrinsics such as the lead indicator or the dodge maneuvers breaking homing weapon locks should apply to Archwings as well as to Railjacks.

Archwings are already pretty fragile in Railjack environments because of the damage conversion from Archwing to Railjack reducing their firepower pretty significantly, but it's very hard to fight fast-moving enemies without lead indicators and the like.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The difference in the rate of instrinsic gain based on role is ridiculous currently. Also, since repairing apparently gives the most, you're essentially rewarding people for taking the most damage possible and having the resources to repair it. You actually get more out of the mission apparently if you don't do as well and have to repair more?

This also means that solo players get massively shafted because the only way to reliably solo is to get far away from the railjack so enemies don't spawn near it or ever attack it at all. That means you never have to repair. I soloed every single node on Earth and Saturn and didn't get more than maybe 5 intrinsics usually for soloing the entire mission. I see that people playing in squads are getting 10+ per mission (which is likely much faster in a 4 player group) while the repairing members are getting even 20 for a single mission?

Is there any logic or reason behind how affinity is gained in this system at all? It needs massive changes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Skye_Archer said:

I feel the piloting intrinsic tree would be significantly more worth consideration for the general player if the tree offered a lot more in terms of impact whilst in archwing mode, piloting the railjack and a hijacked crewship..

Its definitely the worst tree by some margin. It offers no impactful use for survival. Because crewships missiles are homing and more mobile. Not to mention im normally seeing 3 crew ships spawn at once.

Rank 1,2 5 should pretty much be bundled into tier 1 together. Add other perks like countermeasures, higher turret damage after boosting by rerouting excess heat or load balancing.

I felt theres no difference in piloting from rank 1 to 4.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Intrinsics gain is not equal for Host and for the others, Host always gets less, I've played with a clan mate, and him alone for like 40 missions and every single one he gets around 8 points, and me as a host get only 5. Could be that I'm the one that deals with Cruise Ships because anyone who isn't host can get bugged out, and I think repair EXP isn't shared IF you're not on the RJ while it's being repaired, literally forcing people to not want to leave the RJ regardless of what happens, needs fixing ASAP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is more like a future skill request for tactical, engineer or maybe pilot. It would be nice if there were a "scan for materials" that pings the area around you in X meters for loot and highlights everything for the group, so you don't miss items that are just faintly visible. It can be also a passive.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the system, overall. Like everything else in the update, it's new, requires investment and provides a return that adds fun gameplay without completely trivializing the game like with normal ground gameplay.. Although I think the bonuses are bit all over the place. I think reducing the cost of the intrinsics, but adding filler inbetween them that offer minor statistical bonuses such as +5% damage, or other small bonuses would be a nice change, while reserving the more expensive upgrades for things that are huge changes, such as the 360 targeting and indicator snapping. 

Edited by Drago55577
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Intrinsics offering Archwing bonuses is misleading/not intuitive, and some numbers should be adjusted.

It'd be better if there's an Intrinsic specialized in Archwing, with Archwing Slingshot related and more unique bonus(es) like Archwing Slingshot rather than plain increase of number.

And speaking of numbers, Blink cooldown, archwing speed, ability power/range/efficiency seems fine, but archwing damage bonus and whole Vigilant Archwing numbers are meaningless. I suggest to increase these numbers handsomely, but under a certain condition like buff archwing when around Railjack/Railjack is under fire/catastrophic failure/enemy crafts are around Railjack more than X within X meters etc. And also there could be more bonuses such as energy/health generation/etc.(or via Tactical Avionics) Huge bonuses to Archwing with certain conditions could give players alternative solution to solve problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Borg1611 said:

I don't know if this is intended or just a bug, but gunnery intrinsics don't seem to apply to crew ships. I feel like they should since the turret on crew ships would benefit greatly from the 3D targeting you can get on railjack turrets. If they are supposed to apply, they currently are not for me.

This is definitely a bug of sorts for you.  Gunnery ranks work fine for me.

Other news

Still vote to have Rank 10 Engineer and Gunnery reworked!  Don't turn the role into mind numbing BS.  Give them something interesting.

Rank 10 Gunnery:  Free missile every 2 minutes or something.

Rank 10 Engineer:  When you seal a breach, increase the timer on the next breach destruction by 100% (2 minutes).  

or

Rank 10 Engineer:  Emergency Glue - Once per mission, you can seal a hole without any Revulite.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like intrinsic gain doesn't increase with mission difficulty. Yesterday, I did a bunch of Veil missions and I felt like I was making less progress than Saturday doing Saturn missions. Also, intrinsic gain should obviously be shared with everyone on the team since the design is to work together. 

Costs for last 2 ranks are probably too high. Based on the last 3 days I played with an affinity booster the whole time, I estimate it'll take me 30 weeks of hardcore playing to max 5 schools. It was probably 20-30 hours of playing. And that would be 600-900 hours? Seems excessive. I might be wrong on math though.

I'm not sure, but i felt like dying ate my intrinsics when I had a high amount? Maybe that's just a perception based on what might be a display bug, since many people are reporting the game saying they're earning more intrinsics than they're getting when the mission ends.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, DagoDrakh said:

This is more like a future skill request for tactical, engineer or maybe pilot. It would be nice if there were a "scan for materials" that pings the area around you in X meters for loot and highlights everything for the group, so you don't miss items that are just faintly visible. It can be also a passive.

I would love this so much.  At the very least a "high density" ping on the map would be nice.  So we can quickly scavenge.  I actually really like the scavenging part, but I do believe it needs to be sped up a bit.  5-10 minutes at most.  But you can easily spend 20 minutes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of the groups I was in so far had 1 pilot, 1 engineer/gunner and 2 guys flying around archwing/boarding crewships. There were of course some where the railjack was just parked in a corner, but that's just boring in general. So I'm going to talk a bit about those roles.

Flying around killing stuff and dealing with the crewships as they show up is a lot of fun.

How much fun piloting is mostly depends on how well equipped the railjack is of course.

The engineering job feels more like a byproduct to me. One way this could be improved a lot, would be if the artillery cannon was used more often and the engineer was the one to use it. So what I would like to see as soon as possible would be an objective type, where 2 players have to go inside a ship/galleon/base and the other 2 have to stay on the ship and shoot the artillery at something.
It would also be nice if the engineer was more engaged with the rest of what's going on. Sometimes being called to fire the artillery is nice, but it would also be nice to give the engineer some ability to help the guys outside. This could be done by letting the engineer make a bomb in the forge that could then be sent to the guys outside and has to be detonated within 1 minute.
Running around and repairing stuff can be great, when there is enough to do. But if I had to play engineer a lot, I would want a way to show off the skill that differentiates a good engineer from a bad one and right now the only significant thing that can happen is letting the ship blow up.

When it comes to the intrinsics abilities, I had some bad experience with getting the artillery unlocked and then nobody wants to use it in public squads. I think everybody should be able to use it and there should be more use for it.
Being able to just shoot through your own ship shouldn't be a thing imo. It makes it feel like you are just hovering in space rather being on a ship.
And again a lot of the engineer abilities don't seem very exciting. Everything around the forge doesn't really affect gameplay that much and then you don't even get the benefit if someone else uses the forge. I would give engineers bombs. Small ones that can be planted inside bases/crewships or be by jumping on top of an enemy fighter and attaching it to the enemy. And then big bombs that have to be used for big objectives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Klaleara said:

This is definitely a bug of sorts for you.  Gunnery ranks work fine for me.

 

They work fine for you in crew ships? Like if you get in a crew ship and take over a turret it gives you the 3d view instead of the normal view?

Mine only work for me on the Railjack, not the crew ships. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Borg1611 said:

They work fine for you in crew ships? Like if you get in a crew ship and take over a turret it gives you the 3d view instead of the normal view?

Mine only work for me on the Railjack, not the crew ships. 

Nevermind, brain fried.  Comprehended crewship as a Railjack, as they are the same thing according to the game I believe.

I have not tried the the turret on the Grineer crewships, however, I can think of several reasons on why they wouldn't work.  Could simply say, one has Tenno integration, the other does not.  But I could see it being neat?  Just don't see myself using the Grineer turrets much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Engineering seems to be pretty underwhelming past rank 5, Tactical past rank 4.

Gunnery feels overpowered compared to Piloting, considering the Pilot also gets benefits from Gunner skills but not vice versa. If you want to be a Pilot, you're forced to also level Gunner. Think about splitting them a little bit - adding Pilot skills that power up the Pilot turrets, and making stronger Gunner bonuses exclusive to Gunner turrets. Damage+ while drifting should honestly be in the Pilot tree, not Gunner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...