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(PC) Empyrean: Intrinsics Feedback Megathread

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Intrinsic gain after Rank 5 kind of just grinds to a halt. It probably wouldn't be to bad if I had access to the Veil but getting Rank 6 and 7 is too much of a grind (maybe if I had been focusing on one skill it wouldn't be too bad).

Wish the Archwing bonuses were spread out among all the levels instead of just Rank 8.

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I feel like the Tactical View and the info it has could use quite a few UI and QoL changes.

First is that I think some of the info there should be accessible outside of tactical view, I mentioned this in the main feedback thread but I think icons for representing what other players are doing at the moment would be a really big improvement for keeping track of what's going on without having to essentially stop whatever you're doing at the moment.

Second is the ability to get Cy to nag people on your behalf. While it's pretty neat, it's really clunky to do, to the point where by the time you tell someone they should be doing X, it's no longer relevant, and there are several things were you want pretty much anyone/everyone to do, and having to tag multiple people at a time is a chore.

So I suggest a way to broadcast to everyone, and for there to be a way to respond. Perhaps by holding down the tactical view button, you go straight to the order wheel, which will have Cy nag everyone, and then those players might be able to hold down to respond nay or yeah that they are doing it. Obviously making it this easy would require a countdown timer between uses, but I think it would help a lot to quickly comunicate for players who do not have or want to use a microphone.

In fact, a Hold L radial menu would be pretty good for tactical avionics and, once unlocked, to quickly shift camera to other players too. Might be an either/or thing, or one of those would require extra steps, but I think it would make it much faster and easier to use.

(EDIT: In fact, maybe go even further, and have much of the tactial view info be part of expanding the map and make all the comands/abilties/etc done by the radial menu?)

Tactical Warframe abilities are also a little cumbersome to use, but I'm not sure of any way to reasonably address that due to thier nature, beyond, again, maybe having a radial menu setup. Best I can think of is that they all "target" a player, but those that are suppose to target an enemy end up targeting the baddie closest to that player. Would make things simpler to use, but it also would make several of the AoE tactical abilities (some if which, like Nidus's, are useful to the point that it's already worth having to go through the current tactical menu) less useful since you couldn't center them o  a specific point for maximum effect.

Finally, I genuinely hope that the reason the Railjack map in Tactical View isn't always centered and focused in a way that the entire interior is viewable regardless of where in the ship you are is because there wasn't enough time before the holiday break to make it work like that.

Edited by Foefaller
New idea

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Why do the clan rank 3 engines give no speed boost even when they say they give 30 km/h

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I finally feel like I can give constructive feedback now that I'm making MKIII stuff and doing veil missions.

None of the intrinsic trees are useless or underpowered.  A lot of people don't see the use of the tactics tree, but they seem to be the people who don't see the use of tactics in general.

I'd like to see more intertwining — for example, gunnery is very useful for pilots, and tactics is useful for gunners and engineers, but engineering doesn't seem to be terribly useful for anyone who doesn't want to be doing engineering.  It seems weird for some to be interdependent and some not.

I would like to see better explanations of the intrinsics perks — maybe a video demonstrating how the more complicated ones work.

Lastly, I can't figure out if the archwing buffs (like the speed increase) apply in non-railjack missions.  Does anyone know?

Edited by 2ndPersonPlural

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Piloting rank 10 perk seems useless. Ramming into enemies does 2000 more damage. Considering most of the ships in Veil have around 9,000+ health, it just doesn't seem like a worthy perk of being in the 10th perk you unlock. 

On top of this, their have been many times as the pilot where I've boosted into enemy ships in the veil, and they die instantly anyway. It'd be nice if it said somewhere how much damage we currently do with our Railjack when we ram. 

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For Tactical's menu, please add the ability to Waypoint while viewing another player. As in, they missed something, but only need a waypoint to see it, visible only to them. This has come up multiple times from multiple, different, crews.

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13 hours ago, (XB1)l Saminator l said:

On top of this, their have been many times as the pilot where I've boosted into enemy ships in the veil, and they die instantly anyway. It'd be nice if it said somewhere how much damage we currently do with our Railjack when we ram. 

Fighters die automatically when they crash into obstacles. Like when you trigger ionic status effect on them and then they hit an asteroid.

I think this is what causes them to die since railjack does count as them hitting an obstacle. It's not due to any ramming damage however, it's an instakill and you need to crash into their front. If you ram them from behind (lol) it does nothing.

Edited by LocoWithGun

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Vigilant Archwing Increase Archwing defense. Health +30%, Shield +30%, and Armor +30%

I cant test Armor but my health and shields are 10% of base NOT 30%

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Intrinsics farming is not fun. And I don't know what I am doing wrong. On an average galleon mission in proxima veil i get 3-4 intrinsics as a pilot.  Maybe 5 If i am lucky. To max out my intrinsics, I would need ~1500 runs. And each run takes about 20-30 minutes. And the still locked commander intrinsic is not included. How should I even find the time to do this? Once the new year starts I can coun't myself lucky if I can spend an hour or two on this game.

Edited by Ein0r
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The Archwing buff intrinsics don't have their improvements displayed on the Armory screen, which should probably be fixed. It should be possible to see what your bonuses are in that screen for better build optimization.

13 hours ago, narced141 said:

Vigilant Archwing Increase Archwing defense. Health +30%, Shield +30%, and Armor +30%

I cant test Armor but my health and shields are 10% of base NOT 30%

If Vigilant Archwing works the same way other percentage bonuses do, they stack additively to mods that increase Archwing defenses and level-up bonuses. And health and shield get +200% increases as you level your Archwing up. So on a r30 Archwing, you should have 330% base health and 330% base shields instead of 300% base health and 300% base shields (in other words, a net 10% increase).

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General impressions:

The current exponential increase in the Intrinsics needed per level promotes generalization rather than specialization. The reason the graph of Intrinsics distribution is so even is because players would rather spend the 16 points needed to reach level 5, rather than the 128 points to get to level 8.

As level 5 is what is needed to unlock most of the mechanics of each skill tree, the majority of players seem to be some variation of 5/5/5/5. In many cases, players simply just level up the cheapest option continuously. Specialists are incredibly rare, especially in the Veil as people generalize after beelining for level 7.

Problems:

The most over-saturated role is not shown by Intrinsics: boarders. Not only do boarders receive more rewards than Railjack crew (due to Warframe pickups not being universal), but the role is inherently more fun as well; gunners, pilots, and engineers suffer from repetitiveness as these roles are basically one activity repeated across ~10 to 20 minutes. It is fairly common to see the crew bail the Rail Jack in favor of simply doing something else.

The crafting menu doesn't reflect Engi's manufacturing bonuses. The normal amount is shown when crafting, with the amount in cargo suddenly increasing after the menu is closed.

Suggestions:

As each turret has different strengths and weaknesses, it would be useful to see the name of the equipped turret when mounting a gunnery position - especially since a lot of turrets share the same icon (and/or are inconsistent across manufacturers).

It would be nice if the tactics menu also displayed the skill levels of the crew, preventing confusion when moving to positions.

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Okay, now that I've played Veil the Intrinsic gain is so bad. Doing a bunch of quick missions around Saturn gives more than doing missions in the Veil.

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Not going to touch the skills given themselves, save that I agree on many of the points of things applying unevenly, needing more intrinsic a trees, underwhelming higher tier skills. 

We get more benefit from generalizing than we do from specializing. 

To that end I think higher levels should enhance lower levels skills. That isn't to say that higher levels should all be replaced for samey skills. But rather some buffs provided by skills should tie to skill level. 

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Finally got the rank 10 gunnery intrinsic: Reflex Aim. I'm not entirely sure what the point of it is. The main problem I have with it is that you already need to be looking more or less at a target to get the turret snap to actually work. If you're already looking at the target anyways, then what's the point of the aim snap? I may as well just aim manually. If you could snap to targets that are outside of or at the edge of your field of view, then this might be useful to quickly get your guns onto target and proceed with the engagement. That being said, if this is the only benefit that being a rank 10 gunner gives you, I have no doubt that many players simply will not bother getting it unless they really, really want those 1,500 mastery points. Adding additional effects could make this intrinsic more worthwhile such as:

  • Heat accretion further reduced by 30% (stacks with Cold Trigger for a total of 50% less heat accretion, and stacks with Combat Drift for a total of 90% less heat accretion (not 100% because that would be silly)) when firing your guns.
  • Ordinance lock-on is twice as fast and Ordinance has a 50% chance to not consume Munitions when used.
  • The Archwing Slingshot's range is increased again by +50% (stacks with Advanced Gunnery for +100% slingshot range), and the slingshot gets full 360 degree targeting.
  • The forward Artillery cannon charges in half the time and has a 50% chance to not consume a Dome Charge when fired.

Some possible replacement ideas for Reflex Aim could be:

  • If using a projectile turret (Apoc, Carcinnox, or Cryophon), while locked onto a target, you can aim to make your shots home in (leading the target, not following it) on your locked target. If using a hitscan turret (Photor or Pulsar), while locked on and aiming, the turrets will track the target as long as aim is held.
  • When aiming, your turrets fire twice as fast, but do not accrete any extra heat from the fire rate increase.

In short, I'd like to see Reflex Aim changed completely and possibly have an additional effect, or allow us to snap to targets outside of our field of view and also add an additional effect to Reflex Aim. Really, all of the rank 10 intrinsics should provide several bonuses, in my opinion considering the work required to get them.

Edited by Darksamus224
Intrinsic points are worth 1,500 mastery, not 1,000.
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Can someone tell me if this sounds like this system is working as intended because I am confused. I finish a mission and the end screen tells me I have 52 intrinsic, the console in the drydock tells me I have 9, I go back to my orbiter to get my mission rewards and the intrinsic menus tells me I have 25, I go back to the drydock and the console now tells me I have 16. So how many intrinsic points should I have?

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2 hours ago, (XB1)Da1m1en 06660 said:

Can someone tell me if this sounds like this system is working as intended because I am confused. I finish a mission and the end screen tells me I have 52 intrinsic, the console in the drydock tells me I have 9, I go back to my orbiter to get my mission rewards and the intrinsic menus tells me I have 25, I go back to the drydock and the console now tells me I have 16. So how many intrinsic points should I have?

 

Your guess is as good as anybody else's.  That display has never seemed to work properly.

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On 2019-12-26 at 10:30 PM, MJ12 said:

The Archwing buff intrinsics don't have their improvements displayed on the Armory screen, which should probably be fixed. It should be possible to see what your bonuses are in that screen for better build optimization.

If Vigilant Archwing works the same way other percentage bonuses do, they stack additively to mods that increase Archwing defenses and level-up bonuses. And health and shield get +200% increases as you level your Archwing up. So on a r30 Archwing, you should have 330% base health and 330% base shields instead of 300% base health and 300% base shields (in other words, a net 10% increase).

Yes it's true, ie Amesha gains only 120 HP on top of 1800 HP with mods. This intrinsic should be buffed to 100% bonus.

Other level 8 intrinsics looks fine, but just because archwings lack mods to choose from.

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From feedback and my own experience, I’ll echo the sentiment that it doesn’t pay to specialize—because ironically, Railjack is true to Warframe in that there really aren’t any dedicated roles in a mission. You jump from gunner to engineer to boarder to marine to gunner constantly. Pilot is the only role that doesn’t frequently change, and I think that’s mostly out of courtesy to the host.

What’s more, it doesn’t look like any of the rank 10 intrinsic are worth the intense grind and massive cost. 

Edited by Ham_Grenabe

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Don't know about all rank 10 intrinsics, Tactical 10 and Engineering 10 looks good (in theory, I don't have them yet). Gunnery 10 looks also good but reports say it's not. Piloting 10 looks useless.

About rank 9 - only Tactical 9 is good imo. Engineering 9 is useless, by the time you get it you will have no problems with resources, especially these 4 common ones. Piloting 9 is just meh. Gunnery 9 - gives good bonus while drifting, but when you stop drifting you will be propelled at the other end of the map, maybe it needs some change.

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I like the overlap. Like how archwing gets buffed in some intrinsic skills. It makes sense, these skills are INTRINSIC to us. 

To that end I think DE needs to take a broader view. 

Why can someone with higher promoting boost when someone without the skill cannot? It is the same shop after all. Void shenanigans, we are boosting with our funky void powers. 

So it should apply to all of our transportation, K-Drive, Archwing, etc. 

Give us lead indicators when aiming with all of our weapons! (It might actually smoke -spread on mods worth it...)

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I think all the current Rank 10 skills are underwhelming considering the amount of effort we pitch in. They are not motivating enough and it is the

most efficient for one to stop at rank 9 instead. I suggest redo all the rank 10 skills to make them worth the effort and can add an ultimate skill when you unlock all rank 10 skills, for e.g. once you reach rank 10 for all skills, you can select before rj missions to either activate ultimate bonus of + 50% speed/ +50% resources gained/ +30% railjack damage/ + 50% affinity gained. 

Moreover, once we reach rj endgame, we got 200K Dirac and nothing to spend them on, we should have a railjack store for us to buy some decors for our ship using intrinsic points and Dirac to make the grinding meaningful. 

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i notice that the act of destroying a crewship via reactor sabotage isn't providing any (noticeable) intrinsics points whereas killing the crewmembers on a crewship do. is this a oversight or are we suppose to get rid of the crew first (which makes sense, tactical wise) before blowing up the ships reactor? in this case, maybe the reactor console (in higer level missions) should only be accessable after we got rid of the crew. that said, i think that destroying the crewship from within should yield points toward the intrinsics too, regardless of killed crewmembers since i'm pretty sure that destroying it via the forward cannon or by simply shooting at it long enough also gives a good bit intrinsics (though far too less compared to the time and trouble those ships represent).

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2 hours ago, HeartPurity said:

I think all the current Rank 10 skills are underwhelming considering the amount of effort we pitch in. They are not motivating enough and it is the

most efficient for one to stop at rank 9 instead. I suggest redo all the rank 10 skills to make them worth the effort and can add an ultimate skill when you unlock all rank 10 skills, for e.g. once you reach rank 10 for all skills, you can select before rj missions to either activate ultimate bonus of + 50% speed/ +50% resources gained/ +30% railjack damage/ + 50% affinity gained. 

Moreover, once we reach rj endgame, we got 200K Dirac and nothing to spend them on, we should have a railjack store for us to buy some decors for our ship using intrinsic points and Dirac to make the grinding meaningful. 

though that sounds good at first, think what that would do to some peoples performance when they join a ship that is oversuffed with decoration. the railjack missions are hosted by the one who build it - it's not like the dojo these days that are hosted by DEs servers (remember how bad the performance could get, back when the dojo was hosted by the player who loaded in there first?)... and then on top of it, playing the mission? already there are too many player using potatos to play with and/or using stupid uplink methods to the internet that are original though for only browsing with your smartphone for and not using realtime applications with (3g/4g and the like).

but yes, some other use of dirac would be nice. i had my grid max out way before i got to the veil with my own ship and now have about every avionics maxed out too (yes even those i don't actually use - and from all houses too!). i would have prefered if DE, instead of creating yet-another-resource in the game would have us used those megatons of 'old' resources we hording unintentionally for years... but who knows, maybe the dirac will serve more in the months to come?

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I just recently got piloting rank 10 and I think it's fairly disappointing. Considering the investment, I believe ramming speed should be able to finish off a crew ship when it's sitting at no health left and disabled. Or perhaps add a mechanic where if you destroy all 3 engines on the exterior, the reactor shield (in higher level missions) is automatically disabled and when the reactor shield is disabled, the crewship becomes vulnerable to dying by ramming speed in addition to dome charges and boarding. This could also mean low level crew ships are just vulnerable to ramming speed all the time, which I think would be fine since you significantly out level the needed intrinsics for those missions. 

In addition to being a good mechanic for piloting, it would also give boarders another option to disable the reactor shield (currently hacking is bugged so you can just hack and escape for instant removal of the shields, but that will eventually be fixed and would make disabling the engines have a more meaningful purpose). 

It may also be interesting to have a mechanic where getting a kill via ramming speed or via particle ram when you have piloting rank 10 automatically generates an amount of boost to enhance a playstyle where you're killing things by aggressive piloting. 

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I've now been playing Railjack for nearly a month.

Note: I play as Nekros Prime Warframe and Itzal Archwing.

I think the Command Intrinsic should use Converted Kuva Liches, all Specters, and all Syndicate and Major Factions. I also believe that Intrinsic Abilities from other sources should be passed on to those under the Tenno's command.

As a note, I've been working on a post in Feedback - General called 'Suggestion for a New Quest'. This could potentially give ideas on how fellow Tenno can gather their own unique NPC Crews who Advance in Training from mission to mission (How they Advance is up to the Tenno). I am still working on the details (concept art, plot, etc.).

Here is the Link: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1149884-suggestion-for-a-new-quest/?do=findComment&comment=11223810

I also think that the Intrinsics should receive additional Ranks, unlocking more abilities.

Example 1: Tactical could eventually allow Tenno to receive a Map that pinpoints enemies and allies and indicates how far away they are.

Example 2: Piloting could eventually allow Tenno to view the Railjack in a 270 or 360 degree arc.

Example 3: Gunnery could eventually allow Tenno to cause weapon fire to receive lock-on for fired ammunition

Example 4: Engineer could eventually allow Tenno to Remotely use all Forges at the same time.

Example 5: Command Intrinsic could allow Tenno to manage a Fleet when capturing enemy vessels by sending either boarding parties or capturing them personally.

 

I think that all Warframe Abilities should be able to be deployed through the Tactical Intrinsic Path and while deployed in Archwing Mode. In addition, I think more Intrinsic Roles can be added to allow further expansion for Tenno experience. I also think that Aura Mods should affect Railjacks in some way.

Edited by Fordrim

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