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(PC) Empyrean: Intrinsics Feedback Megathread


SilverBones
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I think DE had an amazing chance to make the progression for Railjack perks fun and they actually made a big mistake in using the affinity/focus way of unlocking perks instead of the nightwave/achievement/riven system. I have long had an issue with the way affinity works in warframe given that you can get mastery for a weapon / frame without using the weapon or frame. That is without even getting started on the stealth multiplier which has been abused forever. Using the affinity/focus model in Railjack just replicated the problem as people stealth farmed so much a lot of people reached 10 on all 4 intrinsic trees and saved up enough for the fifth as well. I think that the whole point of progression in any game with RPG elements should be actually using said ability/weapon/skill in order to call it "mastered". I understand that it is too late to go back and do it in the weapon / warframe affinity gains and mastery and even in focus. But Empyrean is still new so maybe a change is/was possible?

For me the best way of progression in each skill tree is actually doing tasks related to the skill that is getting unlocked. I would have much preferred nightwave like quests (not time bound of course just static quests) which award you intrinsic points. E.g. for piloting skill progression, you would have to fly a railjack x number of meters to unlock the first intrinsic level. Next could be shooting down x number of enemies while piloting. The number of enemies doesn't have to be small, it could be large enough according to how long DE expects each level to take. They could have set up similar mini quests like nightwave or the achievements system and had people actually move through the update at the pace they wanted while also getting better at the skill. Because then level 8 piloting would actually mean that the person is a good pilot who has flown x number of missions and killed x number of enemies as the pilot. Someone with high gunnery would be an accurate gunner who will be a credit to your squad and an engineer or tactical team member would be helpful keeping the ship alive and at peak efficiency. To give an example, I am level 7 7 8 8 at the moment and I had never flown a railjack till today. All I did was play on pubs and get lucky to have the double affinity weekend coincide with an affinity booster from the sortie. I reached this level within literally 3 days albeit with a lot of play time as I actually enjoyed gunnery with the railjack. 

To summarize - My two suggestions to warframe

  • When creating a new system of progression keep in mind that you actually want them to be earned by doing the new content like RPG quests.
  • Please stop reusing the broken affinity mechanic for everything. All it proves is that people know how to abuse it by now. 
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What -

1)Intrinsics lack information about what they do.

2)Some intrinsics should be toggle-able similar to being able to enable/disable focus nodes.

Why - 

1)Gunnery rank 10 intrinsic doesn't mention how long it locks to a target. (which is close to a second or so that makes it disruptive since its locks on and out while shooting.)

Piloting rank 10 intrinsic doesn't mention the range needed for ramming enemies. (While some players would think it'd be physically ramming the enemies by contact, most people I have personally seen compare it to particle ram's longer range.)

Engineering rank 10 intrinsic doesn't mention of extra cost of repairs.

Tactical rank 1 intrinsic doesn't mention which key to bring the tactical menu up. (I know people can check the key bindings for this one but it'd be much better if new players were made aware of it from the intrinsics page itself rather than having to learn it via someone else or the key bindings.)

2)Gunnery rank 10 intrinsic specifically makes playing Railjack a bit more difficult if not annoying with the turret aim indicator snapping on and out quickly as we try to aim.

Gunnery rank 2 intrinsic is relatively early on so most players don't play Railjack with default window-view, Phantom Eye is totally an upgrade from this window view but if being able to activate and disable intrinsics were implemented, it could also be used on it.

Suggestion - 

1)There could be an additional info screen about intrinsics at the bottom of the intrinsic tab or by a small icon near each description that we hover over to see its details.

2)Being able to activate/disable gunnery rank 10 intrinsic would increase the enjoyment we'd get from it because as of now, it seems like an annoyance more than something worth spending 512 intrinsics on. Being able to enable/disable it would be a welcome change for all the people who unknowingly got it and regretted their spending.

Additionally, gunnery rank 2 intrinsic could be an activate/disable thing as well. Most players only see the limited view range of the Railjack for just a few missions, then after getting the 360 degree view they never look back to it. Its not as necessary as I think making turret lock-on being active/disabled is, but it would be welcome for people wanting to try the non-360 degree turrets out once again.

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The intrinsic trees and mostly the related bonuses don't resemble actual roles during a match! (Apart from Pilot one, which is ok).

I would much rather see a system like in Payday 2 where there are more roles than positions on the team and as such players can decide in what comp the are going.

Suggestions and changes:

Engineer:

1) Why does it have Arch wing bonuses if Engineer rarely leaves ship?

2) Since Engineer is the one to run around the ship - he is in charge of dealing with boarding parties -> give him bonuses while aboard the Railjack(armor, shield regen, dmg,etc)

3) Remove automatic fixing of things through tactical as it diminishes the role of an Engineer.

Gunner:

1) More perks for using weapons and frontal artillery.

2) Gunner is supposed t man Railjack GUNS, so why does he have bonuses for slingshot and Archwing?

3) Ability to jump between frontal gun and side guns without running.

4) Coolant Injection perk - Hitting max overheat will drop it to zero and increase DMG output of a gun for 30 seconds (2-4 minute cool down)

5) REMOVE AUTO AIM - WE WANT TO PLAY THE GAME NOT HAVE THE GAME PLAY ITSELF!

Infiltrator (New tree):

1) This is where you should dump all the Archwing and slingshot bonuses as well as teleportation back to RJ!

2) Give bonuses aboard enemy vessels(as explained in Engineer)

3) Possibly bonuses to piloting enemy ships(there is no point doing it at the moment)

Tactical(Almost new tree):

1) There are too many entrances/exits to Railjack - make one of them make you go to a safe room.

2) While Warframe is in safe room you are presented with various consoles to give away buffs as you wish and wage electronic warfare like a mad man.

3) Panels and as such associated skills should be separated into groups: buffs for team, rebuffs for enemies, control the enemy ships. use your imagination now.

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First off, I'd swap the level requirements on Tactical of "Ability Kinesis" and "Recall Warp". The Recall is far more used and needed than the tactical abilities.

Second, I'd like the Gunnery "Target Sync" to also apply during Archwing within Railjack missions.

Also, the Engineering "Anastasis" is entirely pointless unless it also comes with an Omni-Ammo discount when repairing manually.

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One of the major issues I see with Intrinsics as a system is the inability to properly specialise. In fact, specialisation is heavily discouraged in the current system. There's not much point in saying all your stats when you could basically just say you're Level 6. The only specialisations start to happen around 8-10, but we basically have a case of "everyone does everything" and so nobody has any job that they can do "well".

Also, replace Gunnery 10 with something that's not directly harmful to the player, and replace Piloting 10 with something that doesn't already happen better at Piloting 0.

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Le 01/01/2020 à 00:25, Vexintis a dit :

I don't post often, but I'd like to ask if anyone has any personal input and opinions about the rank 10 intrinsics, and as to how they think that they could and should work. I just unlocked the rank 10 gunnery, but the description is rather misleading. For those unaware, rank 10 gunnery makes it so when you right click (aim) your targeting reticle "snap" to the nearest target lead assist, however, all that this really does is just makes you lock on for 1 secound or until you shoot, then it unlocks. It also does not effect hit scan weapons like the photor and the pulsar. Are all the rank 10 intrinsics similarly bad? If so, does anyone have any solid suggestions on changes to be discussed?

I believe they are particulary underwhelming for their cost, yes. The aim snap stuff feels good on my apoc turret tho as a pilot but it takes time to be used to it. I believe it is even better for cryophon but it is imho a very poor weapon anyway and aim hack won't help it however the rank 9 of gunnery is extremly good. Rank 9 and 10 engineering are notoriously bad(you litterally swim in the forge ressources). For piloting it is a buff but it's very fluff and for tactical sadly I don't use any tactical atm so the 9 is useless to me(and generally you use those once a mission) and the 10 can be handy to rally sentient ships as a QoL to be sure every container is destroyed and that's it lol.

Edited by Galuf
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  • 2 weeks later...

After looking through the Intrinsic trees multiple times, I cannot help but feel that there should have been a dedicated tree for Archwing as they are extremely fragile in this mode and can only be buffed by reaching level 8 in all trees. How about allocating these passive bonuses under this separate category with other quality of life skills such as a basic target tracker for archguns, extended melee homing range, etc?

At least this will make them more viable then relying on amesha slow and invincible bubbles.

 

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Limbo overflow:
Some players are not happy with the way scarlet missions are hadled by other players but,

It goes hand in hand with the design of the mission.
DE could do it differently. Just from the top of the head ideas:
 
1) OP links dont have HP and cant be destroyed but specific sentients can steal them and run away with them. You need to catch them capture style and get them back so you can progress.
 
2) The ground team needs to put the condrix down and then defend it from other sentients that try to resurrect him
 
3) Space mission has more objectives that would force you to fight crew ships and sentient fighters (they are blocking code transmission)
 
But we get hardcore defense mission and the frames like limbo, nova, mag and many others are just players answer to that.
At the beginning i was always running limbo, then i get bored so i started using mag and messa. And you know what? it's not much more exciting than using limbo, but as a bonus i am in a bigger risk of failure. Having a def target with permanent health that could be healed only by players on stations is an interesting idea but in general, the design of the missions is the source of chore gameplay not limbo.

Edit: pardon for posting under wrong topic
Edited by Wakata
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  • 4 weeks later...

Why can't we just have intrinsics as an unlocking and equip based skill slot? Why not have it so we just pick and choose a from a list of unlocked intrinsics until we cap our intrinsic "skill" level? That way new intrinsics could be added later that might add/change gameplay a tad.

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Intrinsics are still broken.  Recent changes have made intrinsics WORSE.

 

The intrinsic system has been broken from it's beginning by the simple fact that there is no bonus applied to it at the end of mission (like other affinity based items).  This makes it different from everything else in game.  The end of mission bonus is a balancing tool used to encourage people to finish missions.  It is in place for all the other affinity based items and works great.  Intrinsic earning came to us without a cap, but with quite a grind (roughly 50 hours of the same mission repeatedly to max).  People immediately started looking for a better way to farm them and the quit method was born.  Right then, it should have become apparent that something was terribly wrong with the system.  Instead of fixing the root issues, bandaids have been applied to the system to attempt to the symptoms, and it is now worse than when it went live.

 

I just came away from a 35 minute solo run in Flexa.  All crewships and fighters destroyed.  Asteroid base destroyed.  I was making my way through the Galleon when my warframe got stuck in the floor between some fans off a walkway.  Unstuck has not helped.  It's a total loss.  If the system worked properly (like everywhere else in Warframe) I'd have lost the bonus instead of everything.  DE has "fixed" the problem by punishing everyone, rather than simply rewarding people playing how they wanted (finishing the missions).  

 

I haven't seen a response yet that explains why DE has chose to "take away" a thing here potentially punishing everyone, rather than simply reward people who are doing the right thing (finishing the mission), and by extension make undesired behavior (abort farming) inefficient.  Why is DE doing this one thing wrong and different than everything else? 

 

I saw recently they plan to double the rate of intrinsic gain, which is another terrible bandaid.  It does nothing to help the players who legitimately put the grind time in to get their intrinsics.  Stuck at 8 9 10 10, it won't help my state of mind any because 2 * 0 = 0 whenever I get glitched out of them.  

 

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