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(PC) Empyrean: Economy Feedback Megathread

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Empyrean: Economy Feedback Megathread

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Please note, this thread has been locked as it has been superseded with the Railjack Revisited update. If you wish to leave feedback, please do so in one of the following:

Railjack Pacing:
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1189067-railjack-revisited-part-1-railjack-pacing-feedback-megathread/

Railjack Balance:
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1189069-railjack-revisited-part-1-railjack-balance-feedback-megathread/

Railjack Tools:
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1189071-railjack-revisited-part-1-railjack-tools-feedback-megathread/

Thank you!

Use this megathread to post all of your feedback, centering on the Economics of Railjack. This covers the new resources, new research, drop rates and rewards.

Please remember to keep your feedback civil, constructive and succinct. It doesn’t help us find issues or know what you enjoy if you do not explain clearly what you do or do not like, why you do or do not like it, and what you would like to see differently if you dislike a system.

Have fun, and let us know what you think!
 

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New Research the Cubic Diodes and Pustrels should be switched in my opinion.  ( values of Ghost clan ) 
It seems weird you only need 500 Cubic Diodes but you need 1500 Pustrels for certain items.

It would be better if it was 1500 Cubic Diodes and 500 Pustrels since Cubic Diodes are a much more common drop. 

 

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tying repairs with resources and failing cuz of not having enough resources and failing also removed all picked resources = forever failing...... ?

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3 minutes ago, Gio21 said:

tying repairs with resources and failing cuz of not having enough resources and failing also removed all picked resources = forever failing...... ?

Ya I think repairs need a lot more ammo per construction - considering how often the ship gets damaged. 

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Needing resources for repairs and munitions is just the worst idea ever. You go out to the world to farm resources just to use them to fail and get nothing back in return and then you gotta go out and farm them again just to fail again and lose them again.

It becomes extremely frustrating to even want to use your own ship to even attempt the mission to being with.

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revolite is an absolutely abysmal decision, if you're dead set on it being a thing have an infinite basic ammo type and the faster, limited revolite version available. like above poster said, i have no desire to try to butt my head against the absurdly difficult solo experience if i have to grind just to be able to play the first mission

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It would be nice if Revolite used Ferrite \ Alloy Plates \ Nanospores

Many of us are sitting with 5 million + of each resource and have no need of them. 
Instead of making new resources all the time - this would be a perfect opportunity to use these as a consumable resource to drain players supply. 

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Okay, i will be quick.

Like a large amount of players, i'm alone in my clan, after being the only active player.

The basic upgrades (for turrets, reactor, etc) are designed to be absolutely necessary past the 4 or 5 first skirmish.

And, did you even realize what you are demanding from players in terms of grind ?

I mean, really. Did you even try ? Look at those numbers, it's completely insane.

 

I wont even bother to upgrade anything at this stage, and as a result, i wont be able to play this in higher levels until some day you make a reasonnable ressource-gated system. Well, somehow that's a relief. See you next year.

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After a few hours of play I've made one RJ weapon and have enough to upgrade to a mk1 reactor once research is done. Pustrels seem to be very rare in comparison to the other resources.

 

My biggest gripe with the current economy is how hard it is to see the damn resources in space. Add some type of temporary radar ping to allow us to mark resources on the HUD for easy pickup. Some fighters have a 3 second death animation and they don't drop their loot until the end of it making it very annoying to pick up later on.

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Pustrels are absurdly rare compared with the number we need to even get the basic upgrades. They also drop about 1/3 as often as any of the other consumable resources.

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Resouces you gain from railjack missions are not rewarded when mission ends. (I farmed over 100 carbides from them, but the end mission screen did not include any of it.)

 

Using resources to "craft" ammunition really feels terrible, I'm not getting the progression for the research blueprints because I'm spending them on ammunition to pass the damn mission.

I suggest to replace it with a cooldown system. Investing resources will simply reduce the duration of the cooldown. This allows resources to be better managed and prevent spammability. After every mission, consume a small portion of the invested resource, so that we need to invest in it again to keep the cooldown low. This also makes it easier for the crew as there is less moving back and forth.

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If will say that when you get some wreckage its kinda expensive to spend 3k pustrels for that. I would say to lower those costs 15-20% as much so it wont be a hastle to farm 'em.

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I don't like how fast the Revolite is eaten by repairs, it can get to the point where in a mission you will be doomed to fail because you couldn't craft anymore to stop the fires.

I hate how resource drops have to be picked up instead of going straight to your inventory when the enemy dies. The maps are huge, we shouldn't have to fly all over it to get the rewards from killed enemies, please consider making resource drops automatically added to your inventory in railjack missions.

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Revolite Needs Overhaul.

Having Revolite require pustrels a resource that is very frustrating to obtain as it only drops from PoE ore is a bad idea. Outside of Railjack it is an extremely frustrating resource to farm as you need to mine PoE. Instead it should have been a common drop item from enemies like Mutagen Samples or Ferrite or Alloy.

 

With that said, Repair should be changed -> Timeline

Phase 1: Pre-Christmas Changes

As there isn't time for massive overhaul - Revolite crafting Requirements changed to Ferrite + Alloy + NanoSpore

These are easily obtained and in large supply. This is a temporary stop gap for major change

Phase 2: Post Christmas Changes

Revolite is an Infinite Resource but your gun only carries a limited amount. You need to go to a Revolite Refilling station to get more each time

The Ship now uses Armor plating ( yellow health ) as well as of Red health. Each "Hull Breach" reduces total armor. 
Revolite only temporarily stops hull health ( red health ) from being reduced. Players then need to use Welding gun to add armor welds to the hull breach to restore Armor Health. Amour Welding uses Pustrels 5 + Ferrite 10+ Alloy 10 for 5 uses. 

 

What these changes would do;

  • Reduce the number of Early Hull Breaches ( As Ship uses Armored health ) 
  • Make Repairs more viable ( Since Revolite is Infinite ) 
  • It punishes players for taking too much damage without repairing ship back to full health.  ( Need to do a secondary step to repair ship back to full health ) 

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10 hours ago, xxswatelitexx said:

It would be nice if Revolite used Ferrite \ Alloy Plates \ Nanospores

Many of us are sitting with 5 million + of each resource and have no need of them. 
Instead of making new resources all the time - this would be a perfect opportunity to use these as a consumable resource to drain players supply. 

Give that man an upvote! "Technical" materials like Ferrite and Alloy Plates SHOULD be used.

It would also be nice to see old stuff NOT becoming obsolete in the future. And this is coming from a player who is low on Ferrite with 1500+ hours of playtime, so you know I'm not just looking to skip farm.

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Why does repairing your ship cost resources?! the amount of time we lost because we didn't have anything to repair breaches with is so unfun

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I use too much Pustrels and I take very few, I can't accumulate them to build Railjack weapons

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I actually love the idea of crafting items for the ship mid combat, it's an interesting role and prevents the ship from being completely invincible with a good engineer. I just think it should be communicated a bit more clearly that a pilot's job is to actively go looking for these resources when not in combat, and have the pustrels needed be visible on the map instead of being a random drop chance from asteroids (i.e. a purple glow or an infested growth on it). Ideally, I would like to see archwings be able to collect these resources as well and have them automatically sent to the ships storage. Finally, the items needed to power the ship mid flight should not be the same ones needed to upgrade it. Players should feel comfortable using all available resources mid combat and, as an engineer, I shouldn't be vilified for making sure everything it topped up mid mission. Perhaps bonuses could be rewarded based on the number of effective uses of these crafted items that reduced resource costs of upgrades, or caches of them were rewarded after battles. Anyway, thank you for the consideration and thank you for delivering this huge and ambitious update for us!

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16 hours ago, Gio21 said:

tying repairs with resources and failing cuz of not having enough resources and failing also removed all picked resources = forever failing...... ?

This loop definitely needs to be fixed. It is extremely aggravating.

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Posting this in this thread as I don’t believe it will actually be seen in another. Could a toggle be implemented so that the NPC’s in the Dry Dock would remain uncolored when using a polychrome on the room? Even better yet, how about having a toggle for all rooms with the additional color-able objects such as the Infested in the Infested Research Room or the plants in various others? 
 

Overall, it’s irritating and has been an issue for years which leads me into another problem that falls into the same category of being a long unresolved issue. I speak, of course of the parent/child room relationship and the need to address this infuriating issue. The inclusion of the Railjack within the confines of the Dojo proper really drives home the need to have a Dojo Editor Room in which the room itself functions as the parent to all the other rooms of the Dojo and individual rooms can be set as either parent or child to allow various construction options to be available. 
 

In regards to Railjack feedback, I’ll report that using resources found in mission to repair your Railjack when you lack those same resources to actually allow progress, is infuriating and insulting to the player, especially those players (read: every player) whom are just beginning their Railjack journey. Pustrels are especially irritating as they drop in such low amounts and are used for everything that by mission’s end, you have none whatsoever to use in construction of new consumables much less upgrades. Who thought this was a good idea? 
 

The second point of feedback I’d like to present in regards to Railjack is that of the controls. Archwing has always been a mixed bag as on paper it could have been fun, but it’s execution always left something to be desired. The new controls are quite snappy and responsive, but I do miss the 6-degrees of freedom that the old system had. While it’s sad to see the ability to maneuver in any direction disappear, it would have been nice for the continuation of momentum to have been kept, but with the added ability to thrust in the opposite direction to halt said momentum. 
 

That’s all for now, but overall excellent job on releasing this newest expansion, even if it’s off to a rocky start!  
 

(PS: why didn’t the cockpit of the Orbiter receive a visual overhaul as well? Oh well, I’m sure that’s somewhere down the line...) 

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Definitely Pustrels are a major pain, mind you that I've been playing for quite a bit already farmed post-mission asteroid fields for hours. And I still have to get enough pustrels for 1 upgrade, and that's just an MK1 upgrade. Who knows how painful this will become in the future with higher-tiers weapons and upgrades.

But ye, since launch I'm currently at a meager 1.1k pustrils, with an upgrade weapon that I found requiring 2.4k. That's just insane in my opinion, considering pretty much everything requires 2.4k pustrils or 1.5k pustrils.

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Being required to craft repairs, ordinance, and energy in Railjack makes a lot of options feel bad because you're literally firing progression out of your missile tubes every time you use them, every time your Railjack takes damage you're literally burning progression, and so on. It seems that this sort of mechanic is likely to result in a sort of 'win more' spiral, where a player who has a good team can take on harder challenges (getting more rewards) while using fewer repairs/missiles/etc (getting more rewards) and therefore progresses faster, getting the tools needed to take on even harder content (which gives them even more rewards).

Meanwhile a guy who is unfortunately stuck with bad teammates or is undermanned can end up going zero or possibly even negative on expenses.

I feel that a lot of the forge functions are extraneous and I personally wouldn't mind eating a moderate resource gain hit if in return all current 'consumables' were infinite-use items with cooldowns instead. Yes, it means that I'd progress slower under optimal conditions. But it'd also mean that I'd actually have a chance to use all the fun stuff instead of having to deal with every single missile I fire and hull breach I patch slowing my Railjack progression down.

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