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[DE]Bear

(PC) Empyrean: Economy Feedback Megathread

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Posted (edited)

( wrong placed post, wrong topic!) 

Edited by mikakor

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The Railjack Anomaly missions are almost never being completed. I think everyone is trying to farm the Tenebrous ephemera from rare containers and quit if they don't get it. Host migrations are ugly in Railjack. I suggest the Railjack Anomaly mission contain 1 guaranteed rare container which drops an unrevealed item that is revealed at the end.

Just like Pathocyst parts from Hotfix 25.7.8. "Emissary boss rewards will now only be revealed at the End of Mission screen to prevent aborting the mission if you didn’t receive the part you wanted."

Could be ephemera, captura, railjack endo. Keep the odds as low as needed. This "abort" farming is just silly.

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These probably got mentioned aready, but nevertheless:

  1. Please get rid of the non RJ resource bonuses at the end of mission, especially rubedo and ferrite do not feel like a reward to anyone who has access to these missions.
  2. It's not fun to everybody to roam asteroid fields for titanium after a mission. If "space mining" is supposed to be the only source of titanium I suggest the following:
    • Crank up the numbers, the yield in comparison to the requirements is to low
    • Provide tools to identify resource deposits more easily (e.g. a kind of radar/scan avionic)
  3. Vacuum radius of the railjack and especially arch wing is pittiful so it's very easy to miss out on drops, especially mined resources as they have no indicator like avionics or wreckage

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I know it has been here before...but can someone please explain this to me?

Base Dojo research Sigma reactor have +50 , +100 stats.

Vidar Reactor Mk Iii Rare (2.00%)

LyKPxiB.jpg

 

This is unacceptable. Its clearly waste of time.

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Posted (edited)

The economy, looking at ressources and avionics, so far is pretty solid, the only exception is titanium and asterite in my opinion, those could need a bit more work.

 

other than that, what you did with the sentient tileset: the shedu parts and the captura/ephemera bait... i just guess this is just an aperitif to the upcoming sentient new war tilesets in proxima areas....right?

if not...that needs more work too...

and just because its ressource related, please make the ressource/avionic/wreckage drops more visible in space ~~

 

E: wasnt there at one point a system mentioned to use ressources to boost things in our railjack? in general i feel like you could have done more with already existing ressources to add to railjack, maybe add a research option to roll for a specific house avionic/component?

 

Edited by SGreen20

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vor 12 Stunden schrieb Mover-NeRo:

I know it has been here before...but can someone please explain this to me?

Base Dojo research Sigma reactor have +50 , +100 stats.

Vidar Reactor Mk Iii Rare (2.00%)

LyKPxiB.jpg

 

This is unacceptable. Its clearly waste of time.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GooseDE/status/1208122193307164672
 

I bet the drop Rate will be raised to 4%. As per goose on twitter they will insist on rng stats.

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I dont see the point in having MK1, Mk2 tier items when they all cost the same amount of resources as Mk3. Seems like a massive waste of investment. Its role as a progression system is also useless unless its sole intention was to be a platinum sink.

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As a player who've just come back the amount of resources needed to catch up to Empyrean feels way overtuned, and that's even before counting the new resources.

I don't know whether devs or management wanted to take "grindfarm" as the new official name of the game but an update that tells me to grind through hundred of hours to unlock the new contents definitely drives me away from the game as soon as possible. If by chance the point of the grind was to keep me playing for more then it has failed spectacularly.

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Posted (edited)

Resource costs for weapons are way to #*!%ing high. I need 10,000 copernics for a MK2 weapon, and I only get 50-ish per mission, even on higher missions? (Unless I get a random bonus at the end) This sucks. This is worse than the Hema.

MK1 weapons take as many resources to build as MK3s, which is ridiculous.

Doesn't help that resources are hard to see (and impossible to see at range since their draw distance isn't infinite) and the collection distance is insanely small despite how large these areas are.

Edited by StrikerTheHedgefox

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The resource costs for every single ship part are WAY too high, considering that Mk1-3 each need different resources that only drop from one specific proxima. 

It almost forces you to buy repair drones if you want a viable veil proxima ship any time soon.

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Resource, wreckage and BP drops inside crewships and bases need to be shared with the entire crew, just like the drops in space. You can't expect everyone to abandon ship to get the loot.

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Posted (edited)
On 2019-12-12 at 9:16 PM, [DE]Bear said:

Please remember to keep your feedback civil, constructive and succinct. It doesn’t help us find issues or know what you enjoy if you do not explain clearly what you do or do not like, why you do or do not like it, and what you would like to see differently if you dislike a system.

  From the topic about prefering long grind to RNG^2:
(I edited it here and there, to closer match the guidelines above)

2 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

+1 to OP

I did hema research in a solo clan using specific builds, cats, and boosters.  The gameplay was not varied and diverse to do it quickly but I knocked it out in a single weekend (but also had a ton already since been playing for years and ODD used to be the prime place to level up and I often ran nekros there for the oriken cells so I had a headstart).  

While that grind is certainly tedious, I much prefer a long grind with a guaranteed reward than a random loot box.  I hate loot boxes and I hate random stats.  I hate the lack of progress and extreme lack of customization this new system gives.  

All warframes have a set capacity with a catalyst reactor and aura.  This sets the boundaries of what you can do and you must be creative to min/max.  

Railjack reactors spit on years of work, instantly giving some players more capacity than others.  It's like if my excal had twice the capacity of your excal.  I could create an excellent online guide how to build my frame and you could get all excited to play it, but guess what, your screwed.  You can gamble for years and still never have the same capacity Warframe I got on day 1.  

If warframes were treated like railjacks, the game would have died on first year.  Warframe is still around because of the customization.  If DE wants railjack to be around for years, they need to ditch the loot box concept.  

We don't come here to play a mobile game. We want Warframe, not some petty mind tricks some "brilliant" pshycologist pitched on how to get kids more addicted.  

Make railjack fun, I'm ok with grind because it's fun.  I'm not ok with random.  Random is just plain bad and railjack in its current state is going to have a short life because no one can create a guide or share builds because the constraints differ from player to player.  

Whoever did this at DE needs to rethink (and hard) about the outcome because it fundamentally changed a game that has been successful for years.  

We need to be more resistant to change.  

I have upvoted the guy. Warframe used to be a game where one could play 15min at a time and progress. Playing on a tight schedule, RNG drops can void your whole session of free time. That = not progressing = time not worth spending on that game in the 1st place.

Edited by Uthael
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Posted (edited)

"Rush Repair Drone Removed from Market"

can we get a reduction in some of the resource costs to build stuff then? (or a big buff to drops) 'cus even after hours and hours of farming I still can't fully repair one gun, and the requirements are pretty high. 

 

also why would anyone build mark 1 and 2 weapons at the crazy high cost they are to then need mark 3 weapons for veil stuff a short while later?

legit do not see the point of mark 1 and 2 weapons/shields/engines etc, they are so much work for no reward and there's a 1000% no reason not just to wait till you have the base mark 3 ones ready in the dojo, use those until rng gives you a good one to build. 

 

Edited by morningstar999
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Posted (edited)

Remove. Randomized. Stats.

they dont add to gameplay. they dont add to replayability. all they add is player burnout especially with how its implemented in railjack.

games with randomized stats on loot shower you with it. 4% of a drop after every 20 minute mission is far from it. 

and for the love of god please bring down the repair costs already. 

Edited by Zeclem
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The higher levels of Bulkhead (Vidar, Zetki) need to move off Earth Proxima. My railjack is all but maxed out except for my Bulkhead avionic, Earth missions are too easy to be very fun.  I want to farm Void Proxima for intrinsics, but if I don't want to drop plat on Zetki Bulkhead I have to fiddle around on Earth.

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Any RNG stats on rare drops are...more often a source of resigned depression than proud elation. But fixed RNG stats on rare drops are literally the worst thing added to the game yet (and I've solo researched hema).

Go the riven route and let us re-roll stats on these things using dirac; we have enough of it with no other purpose. Go a variant of the kuva weapon route and let us dissolve a lesser version of a component into a preferred version of the same component, yielding a guaranteed (+RNG amount, +fixed amount, whatever...just guaranteed) buff to the preferred version (e.g., dissolve a 30/10 vidar mk III into a 80/20 vidar mk III for a 90/40 vidar mk III or something). At least that way every rare drop will offer some positive feedback. Let us blend up 4 reactors, guns, shields, or engines of any house into a random *new* item of the same type (and add some transmutation core type drops for locking in the house type while you're at it).

Just. Fix. This. Grind.

Edited by -Augustus-
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@[DE]Bear Regarding economics in the Railjack, here is a nice thing you could implement in regards to overflowing amounts of Dirac players like me, who already upgraded all the avionic slots to R3, could do. (also it is very easy for me to now upgrade avionics, which i don't have to do anymore)

Implement a mechanism of upgrading (NOT REROLLING! For the love of god, please, do not make us repeat the same proces as with rivens) already repaired wreckages with Dirac, at the cost of Dirac being exactly the same, as salvaging values from a given tier.

Lets say player would like to upgrade their MK3 Zetki reactor, which got rolled at +20 capacity. The maximum roll for the given item/tier/school for this stat is +50.

Use the formula of upgrade_value_increase = floor((max_statistic - current_value) * 0.3) per each level of upgrade, for a cost of Dirac that is equal to the wreckage salvaging values from a given tier. Here it would be 225 Dirac, doubling the price with each upgrade made.

The upgrading will look like this:

1. floor((50 - 20) * 0.3) = 9, 20 + 9 = 29 avionics, cost of 225 Dirac.

2. floor((50 - 29) * 0.3) = floor(6.3) = 6, 29 + 6 = 35 avionics cap, cost 450 Dirac.

3. floor((50 - 35) * 0.3) = floor(4.5) = 4, 35 + 4 = 39 avionics cap, cost 900 Dirac.

4. ...

and so on, until player is satisfied.

This is the best compromise i could think of, and best out of the simpliest formulas i could imagine, at the same time satisfying your greed for "grind is content" thought, since costs after 4th and 5th upgrade will get pretty ridiculous. On the other hand, it will give us something to work on, and it will lessen the need of us repeating the same mission over and over again (Gian Point, only because it is the fastest, but extreamly boring and repetitive), since Dirac, with more or lesser numbers, could be farmed at any sector, wether we help new people showing them differences on lower levels, or introducing them to high lvl RJ. 30% gap-closer is also the best compromise between too-much-grind/too-ez-upgrades, something like 50% gap-closer (between current stat and maximum stat on component) will give players huge advantage. On the other hand any amount lower than 30% is just too much of a grind to be even concerned worthwhile.

I would like this formula to be applicable to every tier of every possible kind of part. For multiple statistics it is up to you, wether you would like us to upgrade every stat on it's own, with every stat having it's own upgrade-counter (a shared counter on the given item, that increase no matter if we once upgrade avionics capacity, another time +flux, is waaay too much. There is only ever so-much upgrades with this method, because after 6th upgrade prices will get ridiculous to the point noone would like to farm 6 hours for 1 level of extra upgrade, tryhards aside), or upgrade affecting every stat of an item at once.

Take note that this system could also work with something like Kuva-weapons/rivens, there the resource used is Kuva not Dirac, but we are here discussing railjack, so i'll leave it here only as a side-note

 

Furthermore i would like to adress something that i read through the posts under the most recent 27.0.9 hotfix. The issue is you have purged everyones inventory from Rush-Repair Drones. Some people have had multiple ones bought and ready to be used for wreckages they interested them, and now, essentially, they lost they Platinum. Are there any plans for refunds for them?

This is all i wanted to say… For now

Edited by Neuroszima
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  • Relics from end-of-mission rewards just need to go - they are the most unsatisfying reward to get from any railjack mission.  They only serve to dilute the drops, and literally anything else in the star chart is more efficient for relic farming.
  • Crewships also need to drop wreckage more frequently and have zetki drops removed - the elite outriders drop them frequently enough. 
  • wreckages dropped from enemies and mission rewards should not have a chance to roll lower stats than the Sigma series stuff that you research in the Dojo - it's incredibly disheartening to finally get a particular part to drop only for its stats to be astronomically bad
  • There needs to be something else that Dirac is used for as its useless once all grid slots and avionics are maxed - others' suggestions of upgrading wreckage is an interesting idea
  • resource costs for wreckage repairs feel extremely high - especially for things like titanium that require you to go out of your way to loot in order to get any significant amount of it
  • players should get back something more than just Dirac for scrapping wreckage that was repaired with a Repair Drone - ideally, resources

 

Edited by Lokidus_Prime

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On 2019-12-30 at 4:46 AM, Meister_Diego said:

My feedback

1 Vidar mk 3 Reactor - 35 Avionic Capacity

...... 🤮

 

This is all we need fixing 

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Not sure if it's been suggested but one way to solve some of the problem re; rewards/rng balancing is to make wreckage functionally similar to rivens, with a cost of e.g 2k dirac for a reroll.

Benefits:

  • Only need 1-2 of each part instead of tens, and the spares can productively used for dirac, essentially making any 'useless' component a 10% of solid progress toward another "roll" at the part you want.
  • This makes the base 2-4% mission reward rate much more reasonable instead of basically playing sub-1% lottery with a 7-15min entry fee for a decent roll on a part you'd want. Even arcane energize and Hema have a sense of steady progress toward them, something completely absent with the current lottery.
  • Gives something to use Dirac on; I'm sitting on a maxed out grid and over 120k dirac and I know some players who have a lot more. This stops dirac being another dead resource, either by chasing a perfect roll, or as with rivens if components later become tradable.
  • Because a reroll mechanic allows one to see vastly more instances of a component, it would allow more rng axes to be added to drop loot while still being reasonable for people to get decent rolls, or make more interesting tradeoffs.

 

Parting notes:

  • This proposal only addresses wreckage rng problems and droprates.
  • There are still rather significant issues with the current resource costs, generally unrewarding missions, and a plain lack of much to do in railjack since the missions are only interesting the first few times you'd play through them; not much point to do railjack when the rewards in the best (realistic) case are slightly better railjack parts and resources.
  • With how well-isolated railjack is from the rest of the game it's liable to become another dead game mode, consider either adding rewards befitting the difficulty and time investment required or connecting it better with the base game-mode (and not just at a "multi-squad co-op" gimmick level).

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Materials cost for production are pure nonsense.

The way things are aggressively discourages experimention.

You have one of two choices, 1) endless grind or 2) Play straight meta. There are no other options.

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please increase the drop chance of rare sentient cache specificaly one with red wings... so far i havent seen a single one... moreover the low drop rate effects the fun of playing sentient tile set.... please adress this asap 🙂

 

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Buff the amount of titanium and asterite. Even after a hotfix its still really low. especially titanite which you need 15k for ONE ITEM

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The main problem with the economy for me is that there's literally no point in building non-top tier items or taking your not-yet fully T3 all top avionics railjack out of the dojo.

 

Avionics with not max number of ranks and MK1 and 2 parts may as well be raw Dirac right now. It's not like WF flawed/standard/primed mods because you still have to use something, and a flawed mod is better than no mod.

You don't have to fly your own railjack. In fact, considering right now we have basically 1 exact same mission just at different levels and an anomaly farm, the biggest advantage it could have had -- the freedom of choice is largely not there. So, you're almost always better off playing on somebody's else railjack until you get the meta build. (you can also solo farm in your own railjack, but the way this is usually done, with it parked safely and the soloist in archwing/boarding, again doesn't really require intermediate upgrades.)

 

I don't know what the incentives for flying railjack before it's 100% meta ought to be, but without them the game mode will be very difficulty to get into once the things settle. I can see it right now: players hopping on on the newb railjack, quickly eyeing the gerar and hopping off, the owner getting nowhere fast.

Perhaps, having some kind of railjack "gearscore" and scaling rewards off that and providing slightly different rewards for the owner and the crew? Everyone gets the same item drops, but, say, crew and owner getting some extra bonus resources, so that, say, crewing is better for titanium and owning is better for cubics, or something along those lines?

 

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14 hours ago, borko95 said:

Buff the amount of titanium and asterite. Even after a hotfix its still really low. especially titanite which you need 15k for ONE ITEM

Reduce the requrement titanium and astrite for repairing the salvage to half the current amount.... please do address this.... Even Rebecca and Megan were struggling with astrite farm during prime time... 🙂

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