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[DE]Bear

(PC) Empyrean: Economy Feedback Megathread

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Yeah, so pustrels. They either need to drop a lot more often in game play or the amount of them we need for stuff needs to be toned down.

1500 of them for EACH upgrade from the clan research is not fun 😥

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Quick thoughts

1. Please put meaningful reward in end mission pool, I just spent 6 millions who the hell need that 3000 cash or 750 rubedo, put avionics, new resources in there

2. Remove refine, if excess resources now directly go to player's inventory I don't see the point of refine other than a trolling tool

3. Shared loots is needed, if your crew mate picks up a umbra forma or a new weapon outside the ship and doesn't tell anyone, the rest of the crew are punished for doing their job stopping a catastrophic situation, or an alternative solution is simply add those in end mission reward

4. If you are going for random stats on equipments, the cost of repairing should be reduced, rare resources down to 2/3 and common resources needs to be at least halved

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8 minutes ago, akira_him said:

Quick thoughts

1. Please put meaningful reward in end mission pool, I just spent 6 millions who the hell need that 3000 cash or 750 rubedo, put avionics, new resources in there

2. Remove refine, if excess resources now directly go to player's inventory I don't see the point of refine other than a trolling tool

3. Shared loots is needed, if your crew mate picks up a umbra forma or a new weapon outside the ship and doesn't tell anyone, the rest of the crew are punished for doing their job stopping a catastrophic situation, or an alternative solution is simply add those in end mission reward

4. If you are going for random stats on equipments, the cost of repairing should be reduced, rare resources down to 2/3 and common resources needs to be at least halved

All of this, also consider the difficulty and time involved in recovering loot all around the map!

Enemies exploding fling their loot all over the place!

Radar desn't show minable/breakable containers for loot in space

Vacuum is still too short range considering the scale of the maps - itzal #3 becomes mandatory to collect stuff

Too many things consuming pustrels - pustrels drops are far lower than all the ther new materials

No reason why omnitool doesn't use cryotic and other existing materials

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So,

Tier 3 items cost 15k titanium. I go and i shoot asteroids and get 14~50 titanium. That's freakin -insane-.

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2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

- What’s this I’m hearing about loot drops not being shared among the squad? Can someone confirm that? If that’s the case, then it’s an unintended bug, right?

On foot loot is unshared. Like when on foot in the crewships/asteroid bases/installations. Which actually accounts for a good amount of resources... and Umbral forma...

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- Resource cost of new equipment seems absurdly high, on top of that you also need to repair for 12 hours which is insane. It would make more sense to:
A) lower repair time to 1 hour per rank (3 hours for mk3, 1 hour for mk1.) and cut resources down by at the very least 60%.
B) Remove repair time completely, lower resource requirements by 20%

-Starting a repair on a weapon can't be canceled. Considering how much RNG is involved on these, chances are that if you're actively playing you will get a better item before it finishes crafting. Case in point, happened to me and several clan members.

-Difficulty is fine, don't listen to people complaining about it being too hard.

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Refining and forge capacity are terrible.

If I can't choose what to refine, why do I have to refine everything to not waste materials above 200? Seriously why do we have to refine pustrels only because we are farming carbides? I'm so mad.

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3rd day and still dont have mats to repair not a single item i have picked up..

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5 hours ago, Skaleek said:

Like when on foot in the crewships/asteroid bases/installations.

Is unclaimed loot on a crewship destroyed when it goes up in flames?  Like, if I just noticed the rare container while I was on my way out after smashing the reactor, is the rest of the team screwed out of that umbra forma?

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Please let us have all, if not, 80% of all the items we invested repairing an item to be refunded on scrapping the repaired item. Plustrils are already super rare and this makes it even worse. All of the new weapons we salvage are RNG stats, being unable to at least transfer invested resources from a weaker item to a stronger one we got later just feels terrible to work it. (I'm investing in something weak only to find something stronger later on while I'm still repairing.)

The RNG stats in weapons does not work well when the parts itself don't drop often.

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13 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

Please let us have all, if not, 80% of all the items we invested repairing an item to be refunded on scrapping the repaired item. Plustrils are already super rare and this makes it even worse. All of the new weapons we salvage are RNG stats, being unable to at least transfer invested resources from a weaker item to a stronger one we got later just feels terrible to work it. (I'm investing in something weak only to find something stronger later on while I'm still repairing.)

The RNG stats in weapons does not work well when the parts itself don't drop often.

Yeah, DE, this is literally the lesson just learned with the Kuva weapon system and Valence transfer. “Players hate to put a load of effort into something and then have that effort casually wasted by blind RNG, that’s why we made the Valence transfer option. Anyway, here’s Railjack component salvage!”

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Economy takes away whole fun from this mode. Hard to spot resources on enormous map and spending 5-10min flying around collecting things after enemies are killed every single mission. Can't everything be autocolect, after mission objectives are fulfilled?

 

Need to use resources to repair ship also suxs. There no time to collect them in firefight and you die because you can't afford stupid recovery gel.

 

Farming always was part of Warframe but it is first time when what you have to do to get resources is annoying and make me want to ignore game mod. Earlier only annoying part was amount needed (Hema) but here I hate everything about farming.

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On 2019-12-13 at 5:18 PM, TheRealShade said:

I don't like how fast the Revolite is eaten by repairs, it can get to the point where in a mission you will be doomed to fail because you couldn't craft anymore to stop the fires.

I hate how resource drops have to be picked up instead of going straight to your inventory when the enemy dies. The maps are huge, we shouldn't have to fly all over it to get the rewards from killed enemies, please consider making resource drops automatically added to your inventory in railjack missions.

What is worse is that other players can actually doom the mission by hitting that refine button in the forge when you need to craft revolite.

Yesterday, the countdown for the mission rewards was already going, but there was still one fire. We were out of revolite. I rushed to the forge, some one else was already there. I wanted to craft some revolite, but the other player clicked refine. The resources were gone. The fire countdown was one second before the mission end countdown. We got the mission failed end screen, because one guy decided to click that button and all of our rewards were thrown away. (We had some good drops, so everybody was pissed)

That refine button is a huge mistake that is ruining missions and can be used to actively decide to make a successful mission fail anyway.

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6 hours ago, Skaleek said:

On foot loot is unshared. Like when on foot in the crewships/asteroid bases/installations. Which actually accounts for a good amount of resources... and Umbral forma...

DE: “Let’s make a co-op mode which only functions if players take on different roles in totally different areas of the map and have to coordinate to achieve objectives!”

Also DE: “Let’s make it so that blueprints for the rarest item in the entire game can drop inside specific segmented off areas of the new map arenas!”

Finally, still DE: “Let’s make it so that loot drops are not shared among the party, so that away teams will get more and better drops than the crew manning the Railjack.”

 

 

Jesus Christ, DE. I....

 

Look, Railjack is fun. It is. It’s a good mode. However, please, please, for the love of God, spend more time asking yourselves questions like “What’s this mechanic actually going to look like in play?” and “What’s the intended outcome of these mechanics?”

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1 hour ago, SandScorpion said:

That refine button is a huge mistake that is ruining missions and can be used to actively decide to make a successful mission fail anyway.

Suggestion: Do not allow refining.

Instead: All resources in the forge hold are COPIED, not emptied, COPIED into all squad members' inventories when leaving a mission sector. This not only resolves the refining issue, but also creates extra income by making successive missions award more resources.

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the refining system could use some redesign.

- it should be possilbe to increase the max. hold on the ship (via avionics) as should the max. amount of payload too (while at it ^^)

- the control of the refinement and the production of the payload should be placed to the bridge of to the tactical menu - maybe add that to some intrinsics that would well be worth it.

- the amount of resources in the hold should be visible without entering the holdspace for it - again, this could be shown in the tactic overview

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I am mostly happy with how things work, in terms of economy.
I don't have problem with revolatie like most players but Pustrels drop rates should be increased to be on par with carbides/cubic diodes.

I agree on reward drops. Those rewards are pathetic and let's hope those are just place holders.

Drops should be at least significant rare resources, tellerium, orokin cells and some ship components.
At end of mission all resources in storage should be automatically refined and if sotrage is full then resources should be awarded to players, not deleted.

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I have farmed enough to upgrade all the grid slots from my ship to the MAX. All of them and lots of Dirac to spare. Still couldnt get enough resources to craft a SINGLE armament or component. Something wrong aint right. Just saying.

 

Edit: Just to be clear, the wrong part is the outrageous amount of Titanium/Pustrels required compared to the drop rate/amount.

Edit2: On foot loot and everything else SHOULD be shared.

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The existence of Repair-drones makes it almost impossible to give any meaningful feedback. I feel like this kind level of paying for progression is too much. There isn't anything comparable to this in the rest of the game. If these items are going to exist then the cost of repairing things with in game resources needs to come down a hell of a lot, and we need a system similar to Valence Transfer. Idk I'm really struggling to understand rational behind this economy. It's like the Riven system but worse somehow.

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58 minutes ago, kuryux said:

I have farmed enough to upgrade all the grid slots from my ship to the MAX. All of them and lots of Dirac to spare. Still couldnt get enough resources to craft a SINGLE armament or component. Something wrong aint right. Just saying.

 

Edit: Just to be clear, the wrong part is the outrageous amount of Titanium/Pustrels required compared to the drop rate/amount.

Edit2: On foot loot and everything else SHOULD be shared.

that sounds like you do more or less speed running the missions instead of proper looting too. also keep refining the resources onboard when you have the bonus for it already active (in the engineering instrinsics) this way you get far more from the 4 main resourses.

i don't have all grids maxed up yet, but was able to already build at leat 6 different upgrades and also have all reserach currently active running - and only by my own resources, since my clan is far too lazy/slow to do help out here. i ususally stay in the mission after the objectives are done and do at least a cursory sweep at the best spots for resources - also, open every locker and create on ships/stations too and maybe kill every enemy on foot, for they all can contain those resources, even the rare ones. ofc, that makes earning instrinsics a bit slower...

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5 hours ago, zuraja said:

Is unclaimed loot on a crewship destroyed when it goes up in flames?  Like, if I just noticed the rare container while I was on my way out after smashing the reactor, is the rest of the team screwed out of that umbra forma?

yes, but i havent heard of any reports that rare caches spawn on crewships.

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Yeah, it seems to me that this game mode has had all of it's numbers somehow increased by 100-1000% before being pushed to live.

The costs to repair a single Mk. I item should not be in the thousands. The armor value of single trash units should not be in the thousands. I should not have to spend a whole week of my free time grinding non-stop to make a single gun that MIGHT be slightly better at killing enemies than the literal rock thrower we have right now.

Here's the feedback: move the decimal point 1-2 spaces to the left on all "repair" costs. Then maybe it won't look like you're so desperate to sell those 50-plat repair drones.

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The economy and balance is pretty bad this time. 

  • On-the-fly resource gathering + building of repair fuel, not even EvE went that far. Let us make repair guns, they have infinite ammo but a battery/charge time, mod them for certain uses (better vs fire/electric/hull etc, but doing everything). Have the option to buff it with our frame energy. There are a lot of fun ways to do this tbh. Right now, it is the reason I cannot pilot, I'm too colourblind to loot with the ship, can't see most loot things (Earth and Saturn, not been to Veil yet).

Time economy is also pretty bad:

  • The time to gather resources to repair fully RNG things (with spreads over 300% apart easily) is insane. What you need is a friend/veteran/whale with loads of plat who just repair stuff with the market only repair drone (shame on you DE). Then use their kitted out railjack which can maybe stay alive in a mission to hardcore grind the resources, intrinsics, avionics, mods and drops to maybe get your railjack to a decent state.
  • The time to kill is pretty insane, you have just introduced bullet sponges again. I understand there is a need for some balance between veterans playing for 3000+ hours that haven't neglected or ignored AW and have kitted out wings and weapons, but geez, you have made it so there are basically only a couple of choices: Amesha for wing (oh no choice there) and imperator vandal for weapon (with possibly velocitus, phaedra, grattler, only with amesha of course). Melee is useless, which is a shame because you could use that to scan, but it is absolutely not working at all. Please unnerf AW weapons, projectile speed, projectile range, damage, everything but the sound is pretty underwhelming right now.
  • Time to die is instant for anyone that has not spent hours upon hours grinding AW. If you don't have that 1800 hp amesha don't even bother coming out and spamming 1 to not get insta-ed. Other wings are just frankly useless, Itzal nerf meant that you can't blink while in stealth so you can't even try to play like that. And the damage of everything is high enough that, again, Amesha is the only viable wing.
  • As a boarder I don't really mind the levels inside crew ships and structures, but again the hp and their damage is pretty insane, you will notice people bringing invincibility frames more often than not.

Do not nerf Amesha, nerf the situation that made it the only viable choice.. if I have 10k EHP, energy and good weapons and know how to dodge and weave, I shouldn't still need an invincibility skill to manage playing.

 

The wreckage RNG is a huge pain. There are no explanations on what the range of the roll can be and you can only carry 30. There is no indication where you can easily see how many you have. The drop rate (before RNG) is maybe ok, but you need them so bad. So bad. Unless you never fly your railjack, then you don't need them at all, because 25 salvaged from mk 1 is just pitiful.

 

The avionics. The drop rate there is a huge pain with the enormous differences in stats. Again, only for the host. it's weird how much of a pain it is. You need 1800 to upgrade your slots the last step. That's 2600 in total for a single slot. Mk II wreckage gives 50. We need a balance patch for sure. We're beta testers as PC crowd, I know, but it's really hard to test things now.

 

Please can we have some transparency on the RNG limits and the drop rates and drop tables? Right now, especially since it is so plat heavy (repairs), it feels like a bit less free to play.

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I would want to see drasticly lowered cost to repair low tier equpment for railack

now it is insane high and not worth to repair any single mk1 thing, you will get to 2nd planet with mk2 equipment drops before you will be able to repair any 2nd mk1 thing

and I guess we will have mk3 in veil proxima...so this is just another reason why I wont touch even single mk2 item to repair while knowing how higher costs will be on mk3 equipment

 

I will leave, make the best equipment insanely costly sot his dropping in veil proxima, to keep high cost on it and to not make it viable to fast to everyone but then I would want to have lowered price of repair to any other lower tier equipment as as I wrote...currently it have si high cost to craft it is not worth to invest

now Im done with saturn and earth and got all skill on 6th lvl, so only 1 lvl in each skill to go to veil proxima and yet I had crafted single goo mk1 reactor, upgraded 6 grids in avionics on max and few to 2lvl out of 3 with dirac and even just 5 grids are enough for me with "avionic mods"? with current capacity and Im doing fine on highest lvls avaible for me - so saturn

and I still dont need so much to repair any more equipment besides already crafted reactor whcih I mentioned, for avionics capacity

and so Im not going to spend that much resources on better anything, even weapons for faster killing which I already got very good...but as I wrote..Im not going to spend thgat many respourced on this equipment which would be instantly to change once reached to veil proxima...so Im keeping my resources and Im sure I will be able to craft atleast 2 or even 3 (with bad RNG for drops) mk3 items when I will be able to do missions on veil proxima instead of having them wasted on much inferior equipment in compare to this with already insane cost to repair

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