I Hope That No Mastery Points Are Attached To Railjack Components

[PookieNumnums]

1 hour ago, BDMblue said:

Mastery doesn’t give you anything? It just tells players how much stuff you have used. Why would the Railjack stuff not be on the list of used things in the game?

It gives you trades and standing cap. But other than that yeah its pretty much worthless. Esp if you max out syndicates and rarely trade. 

Mastery means almost nothing and there are plenty of high mr players who arent very skillful or who know very little about warframe outside of pressing 1234 aiming and shooting. But you also have lower mr players who are math and wiki addicts that know quite a bit about everything they have so far. 

Thats always been a dilemma for warframe if you ask me. It lacks any real way to tell if someone has actually "mastered" something and not just "equipped it for 20 waves of double booster defense".

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

3 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

And that's what I was waiting for.

I'm against the idea of having to be 'bribed' to play the content with MR points, basically. I'd just like it to be an series of mechanics entirely for its own sake, to be explored and played with just for the fun of mastering it, not, uh, Mastering it.

>Implying you can't just play the system without going for Mastery.  You can have fun doing whatever you want - why you want to strip away other people's idea of fun is beyond me.

You're asking to take it away from those of us who care, why?  Because you don't care?  Because you want to dictate how we're incentivized to run content and what value we see in it?

I've never been interested in Railjack as it is - taking away mastery is taking away the only incentive I have to invest in it.  The same way it was with open worlds - never wanted them, only invested time for the mastery of stuff that needed standing, or else I would have never done it.

I play Warframe for the 3rd person shooter elements first and foremost... if they don't incentive me to play things out of that realm, then why would I? 

They have an entire aspect of the game that works just like this, and guess what - I never play it - almost nobody does.  It's called conclave. 

Hardly anybody wants to play game modes that are completely detached from the core experience.  That's same reason Archwind is also a failure - and to that point, even being a failure, the only reason AW got any use from the community for nearly 4 years was because of the mastery - otherwise it would have been a totally abandoned game mode.  (even though it was anyway)

Mastery probably shouldn't be your primary reason do anything in the game - that doesn't mean enjoying the mastery chase somehow diminishes content.  However if you start taking away rewards and incentives, what is the point?  You need to be making some sort of gains that tie into the game at large, and Mastery is one of the backbones for that - next to resources.

So what next, should we argue you shouldn't get resources and credits in Railjack missions so it's "entirely for its own sake, to be explored and played with just for the fun."

So what are you advocating for here - no rewards, or just the rewards you don't like?

Edited December 13, 2019 by (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z

[DrivaMain]

What's wrong tying Railjack parts to mastery really? The faster we reach MR 30 the faster DE included what's next after MR 30.

 

[BornWithTeeth]

12 minutes ago, PookieNumnums said:

Little to nothing. 

DE have put themselves into an awkward situation there, really.

Basically, one Archwing is brokenly overpowered. The Amesha is an immortal god-machine which cannot be destroyed, and which can protect any objective. So long as you keep blowing energy on things, you are immune to damage because any damage you take will just be turned into energy, you also have a swarm of drones making you immune to damage, and you have a big globe inside of which you cannot be hit by bullets, because the globe takes those bullets and makes them into healing anyway. So, the only way for enemies to attack you is by hitting you with Status effects to bypass your bullshi- oh wait, no, your third ability makes you and your allies immune to Status effects, slows all enemies, and costs energy so you can keep it and your 4 running at the same time.

Also, the Amesha is faster and tankier than the Odonata Prime, infinitely tankier than the Itzal and barely any slower, and the Elytron is over there pretending to flex for the camera but secretly quaking for fear the Amesha will look and and just delicately sneer.

 

So, DE! Here are your choices:

A) Make modular Archwings less powerful than the Amesha. No-one will use them. They will be built and levelled for, appropriately enough in this thread, the Mastery.

B) Make modular Archwings as powerful or more so than the Amesha, meaning that Archwing combat in your new flagship release will be trivialised right from the get go.

C) Bite the bullet, do what you should have done before you even released the damned thing, and nerf the Amesha.

 

Sad to see it. Archwing was made as its own nice little balanced ecology, had its own mods library, was a nice little walled garden without Primed Point Blank, Blood Rush, no +90% multishot and crit chances pushed above 100%. Ah well.

[BornWithTeeth]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)Zuzu_with_a_Z said:

>Implying you can't just play the system without going for Mastery.  You can have fun doing whatever you want - why you want to strip away other people's idea of fun is beyond me.

You're asking to take it away from those of us who care, why?  Because you don't care?  Because you want to dictate how we're incentivized to run content and what value we see in it?

I've never been interested in Railjack as it is - taking away mastery is taking away the only incentive I have to invest in it.  The same way it was with open worlds - never wanted them, only invested time for the mastery of stuff that needed standing, or else I would have never done it.

I play Warframe for the 3rd person shooter elements first and foremost... if they don't incentive me to play things out of that realm, then why would I? 

They have an entire aspect of the game that works just like this, and guess what - I never play it - almost nobody does.  It's called conclave. 

Hardly anybody wants to play game modes that are completely detached from the core experience.  That's same reason Archwind is also a failure - and to that point, even being a failure, the only reason AW got any use from the community for nearly 4 years was because of the mastery - otherwise it would have been a totally abandoned game mode.  (even though it was anyway)

Mastery probably shouldn't be your primary reason do anything in the game - that doesn't mean enjoying the mastery chase somehow diminishes content.  However if you start taking away rewards and incentives, what is the point?  You need to be making some sort of gains that tie into the game at large, and Mastery is one of the backbones for that - next to resources.

So what next, should we argue you shouldn't get resources and credits in Railjack missions so it's "entirely for its own sake, to be explored and played with just for the fun."

So what are you advocating for here - no rewards, or just the rewards you don't like?

I'm saying that I feel like the Railjack itself should be counted separately from one's arsenal of guns, it's a big infrastructural thing. Having a Railjack doesn't make a Tenno a better ninja in the way that, say, mastering the use of dozens of different blades does. But I'll freely concede that's a personal taste thing.

 

Aside from that, I'm one of the folks who actually does play and enjoy Archwing, even if I don't play it nearly so much as I do the usual game modes, and I do wish there was more Archwing content. So, uh, wish granted for me I guess, in that specific regard.

 

Final comment on the issue of whether one should get credits and resources in Railjack missions or no? See, your argument there isn't great because credits and resources are directly applicable to upgrading and improving the Railjack itself. Mastery won't help you build a better ship, but you can do Railjack missions, gain loot, and pour that loot back into the Railjack, allowing you to delve further into Railjack content once you have a ship that can handle it. That's a nice concrete reward which ties back into the game mode itself.

[PookieNumnums]

28 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

DE have put themselves into an awkward situation there, really.

Basically, one Archwing is brokenly overpowered. The Amesha is an immortal god-machine which cannot be destroyed, and which can protect any objective. So long as you keep blowing energy on things, you are immune to damage because any damage you take will just be turned into energy, you also have a swarm of drones making you immune to damage, and you have a big globe inside of which you cannot be hit by bullets, because the globe takes those bullets and makes them into healing anyway. So, the only way for enemies to attack you is by hitting you with Status effects to bypass your bullshi- oh wait, no, your third ability makes you and your allies immune to Status effects, slows all enemies, and costs energy so you can keep it and your 4 running at the same time.

Also, the Amesha is faster and tankier than the Odonata Prime, infinitely tankier than the Itzal and barely any slower, and the Elytron is over there pretending to flex for the camera but secretly quaking for fear the Amesha will look and and just delicately sneer.

 

So, DE! Here are your choices:

A) Make modular Archwings less powerful than the Amesha. No-one will use them. They will be built and levelled for, appropriately enough in this thread, the Mastery.

B) Make modular Archwings as powerful or more so than the Amesha, meaning that Archwing combat in your new flagship release will be trivialised right from the get go.

C) Bite the bullet, do what you should have done before you even released the damned thing, and nerf the Amesha.

 

Sad to see it. Archwing was made as its own nice little balanced ecology, had its own mods library, was a nice little walled garden without Primed Point Blank, Blood Rush, no +90% multishot and crit chances pushed above 100%. Ah well.

Or they can just buff the other wings since enemies are gonna be a lot harder to kill and hit harder. I think odonata shield will be its surv. Maybe theyll thiccen it. Eletrons may be its smoke screen and armor. Itzal its invis. 

I say just bring the others up to par. 

Ive always liked archwing and still do. I am excited for rj cuz it ties together infiltration missions and archwing. And adds some ship combat. 

[BornWithTeeth]

13 minutes ago, PookieNumnums said:

Or they can just buff the other wings since enemies are gonna be a lot harder to kill and hit harder. I think odonata shield will be its surv. Maybe theyll thiccen it. Eletrons may be its smoke screen and armor. Itzal its invis. 

I say just bring the others up to par. 

Ive always liked archwing and still do. I am excited for rj cuz it ties together infiltration missions and archwing. And adds some ship combat. 

I dunno. I feel like if one has an extreme outlier in power, the most elegant response would not be to normalise it, make that outlier the new baseline for the content, and just buff everything. That's the definition of power creep. Better to keep a handle on it, nerf extreme outliers, and make it so that all available tools to the players have their uses without having to constantly fine tune the baseline gameplay expectations of the playable content.

[beol]

That would be nice. 

[BornWithTeeth]

You know, I'm quite happy with the way the system looks so far! Railjack components and equipment do not grant Mastery, but Intrinsics do, because Intrinsics are the actual skills of the Tenno.

 

Top notch, DE, nice.

[PookieNumnums]

20 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

I dunno. I feel like if one has an extreme outlier in power, the most elegant response would not be to normalise it, make that outlier the new baseline for the content, and just buff everything. That's the definition of power creep. Better to keep a handle on it, nerf extreme outliers, and make it so that all available tools to the players have their uses without having to constantly fine tune the baseline gameplay expectations of the playable content.

That makes sense only if the rest of the gear is balanced appropriate. Its not. Why nerf the only thing that works decently and then be left with nothing that does? 

In this case, the other gear needs to be brought up to par.