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December 2019 Riven Disposition Updates

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1 hour ago, Koed said:

You are being sarcastic right? 

No. The current changes on this thread dropped a week early with Empyrean rather than Ivara Prime, but they were the same changes that would have dropped with Ivara Prime regardless. Hence, the next revision (Melee) being due around the next Prime Access actually means Titania, which is next frame in line, around March.

Edited by Jarriaga

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48 minutes ago, (PS4)FluxOmega said:

If you're not using weapons or Frames that you're finding fun then I feel sorry for you.

Barking at the wrong tree. There's a reason why only one of my most used weapons is in the top 10 (And not even top 5) and a reason why I'm so accepting of disposition nerfs.

48 minutes ago, (PS4)FluxOmega said:

Sure, it helps if they're effective at killing at high levels, but that's part of why we're modding them, to make them viable.

Ergo, fun is a red herring because even if you're not using the absolute bleeding edge at the top of the line, you want the things you personally prefer to actually be within a certain ballpark even if not at the top.

Edited by Jarriaga
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On 2019-12-16 at 5:36 PM, (XB1)COA Altair said:

1% of the playerbase using it would still likely be an increase in comparison to before catchmoon nerf so more usage means it should get nerfed.  On top of that they use internal power ranking of weapons to decide nerfs as well.  Hypothetically fulmin would have been nerfed even if nobody used the weapon because on paper the gun is powerful.  Those are the metrics they use.  It isn't hard to understand that.  I really don't care if you had a riven or not at some point for a weapon it is irrelevant because some rivens are dog S#&$ and others are god tier.  My spectra vandal is nuts because it has -puncture on the riven so the number of slash procs it gets destroys anything not protected by an ancient healer.  
 

Gaze was balls compared to synapse nuff said.

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On 2019-12-16 at 5:36 PM, (XB1)COA Altair said:

1% of the playerbase using it would still likely be an increase in comparison to before catchmoon nerf so more usage means it should get nerfed.  On top of that they use internal power ranking of weapons to decide nerfs as well.  Hypothetically fulmin would have been nerfed even if nobody used the weapon because on paper the gun is powerful.  Those are the metrics they use.  It isn't hard to understand that.  I really don't care if you had a riven or not at some point for a weapon it is irrelevant because some rivens are dog S#&$ and others are god tier.  My spectra vandal is nuts because it has -puncture on the riven so the number of slash procs it gets destroys anything not protected by an ancient healer.  
 

Dang my guy, why are you so mad? I didn't say anything that should have made you mad.

You're literally calling my old rivens dog sh##.

My gaze is Cc Cd toxin

My old Spectra was Cc dmg heat  -dmgvsinfested (I'm pretty sure)

My gremlins was cc multi

I rolled them and used Gremlins more and sold the spectra and eventually sold the Gremlins.

They aren't the best but I wasn't going for a groll. 

Anyhow I'm not tryna have a argument. I don't want to use stereotypes as a real life example but you act like a xbox player.

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For christ's sake just eat the damn fact that you made a mistake with rivens and get rid of the disposition system.

Whenever I see a riven I'm thinking "how can I get plat off of some sucker" rather than seeing it as a reward, because eventually you nerf anything that's remotely good.

Let rivens be the awesome buff that they can be. The game isn't challenging and every time you try to make it so, you put in artificial barriers and convoluted mechanics to circumvent our power, making whatever OP super ultra funky meta weapon completely pointless anyway.

Let all rivens be maxed and stick to occasionally balancing weapon stats.

Y'know, prioritize having actual fun with the game rather than trying to appease some weird twisted sense of balance?

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What's the point of rivens if you have to work really hard for it or pay for them, but then you ultimately nerf them all to perform equally? Why can't you just make everything 1 disposition and actually rework the base weapons? There no commitment to building and choosing the base weapons, but there's barriers to entry and exit for rivens that you roll, bought, or committed to. So what reasoning is any change to player inventories warranted? That's like saying someone has too much plat, so you have to remove some and donate them to others. Instead, have you considered changing global pricing so poor and rich can benefit alike? 

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Why are people complaining about Riven disposition changes? DE said from the start that they will change based on the weapon usage. This is not a nerf  or buff, it is how the Riven system works.

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4 hours ago, DeusTempestas said:

Why are people complaining about Riven disposition changes? DE said from the start that they will change based on the weapon usage. This is not a nerf  or buff, it is how the Riven system works.

It is a problem because invalidates player effor or money, depends, across the board!

If someone drops a nice riven for a weapon he/she likes after hour of RNG on top of RNG on top of more bullS#&$ and than that same mod gets trashed repeatedly, then there's a big problem!

it's time, enjoyment, money that gets sent down the drain without so much of an apology! remeber the email from the riven cephalon after all previous adjustment? "your crude bantering"! Pity that's were most of DE plat sales come from.

So it's pretty much the host spitting in his customer's face after exchanging what they paid/worked/grinded for, with something worse.

>note that those riven that got their disposition improved are for weapons so trash that even max disposition is enough to rescue out of the MR fodder scrap pile

>counterintuitively also high disposition has more chance to completely screw a roll with egregiously tras downsides like -150% damage and so on

This after DE ignored the problem for years and took in the sales.

Besides that, current riven balancing is nonsensical and deliberately obfuscated behind bullS#&$ like internal weightning and the like - everything that gets widespread use gets reckt.

It can be justified on weapons that were obscene outliers, due to intrinsic mechanics like the catchmoon, and there DE should check why the gun is so popular...

On the other hand repeatedly hitting with disposition reduction the same weapons for 7 consecutive adjustments is prime manure.

If riven disposition is such that a riven is a worse investment than a standard mod, then DE went too far into nerf territory

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On 2019-12-12 at 6:41 PM, Komodo_Saurian said:

Every time you change this stuff retroactively.

 

Thanks, I guess.

 

Can you retroactively refund the plat difference on these changes too?

Don’t really feel like beating a long dead horse, but are they really retroactive changes? 
 

Unless I’m missing something disposition changes are a part of riven mods whole thing.

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Well done to Team DE. What an amazing game you have made and continue to make. It is not only a game, but truly an  experience.

Congratulations on releasing Empyrean/Railjack on schedule in 2019. It is one hell of an update and sets the pace for what is to come.

I cannot wait to discover what you will add in 2020 and the years to follow...

Have a well deserved rest over the holiday season after all the hard work in 2019.

Thanks so so much for making such a wonderful wonderful game that is so much bigger than anything I have ever played or experienced before.

xx

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For some reason my riven is not updated on the weapon, if you look at crit multi (base 2.5) it's 4.1 instead of the 4.2, 65% of 2.5 is 1.62, 70.9% is 1.77 so it should be 4.2. Obviously it's not going to make a difference but thought I should bring it up.

M2Elirv.jpg

FK1foAj.jpg

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If you're going to be changing dispo per variant then why not just make rivens for said variant.
Could help fix a lot of headaches when buying/selling.

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On 2019-12-20 at 11:24 PM, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

Don’t really feel like beating a long dead horse, but are they really retroactive changes? 
 

Unless I’m missing something disposition changes are a part of riven mods whole thing.

You buy/farm/roll a riven expecting certain results. DE changes it and changes are applied retroactively to the stuff that you already bought/farmed/rolled. If it wasn't applied retroactively, then the existing rivens you rolled would stay as they are and only new rivens rolled after the patch would be changed.

Europe sues companies for making real money purchases like phones work worse, Canada not so much apparently.

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13 minutes ago, Komodo_Saurian said:

You buy/farm/roll a riven expecting certain results. DE changes it and changes are applied retroactively to the stuff that you already bought/farmed/rolled. If it wasn't applied retroactively, then the existing rivens you rolled would stay as they are and only new rivens rolled after the patch would be changed.

Europe sues companies for making real money purchases like phones work worse, Canada not so much apparently.

Who is lining up for a class action lawsuit against DE for making their weapons marginally worse.  Such a case would probably get thrown out of the courts in a day.  You can't compare an ingame item that you don't need at all to a phone, which is something people actively need in first world countries due to how employment and such is set up now.  

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

Who is lining up for a class action lawsuit against DE for making their weapons marginally worse.  Such a case would probably get thrown out of the courts in a day.  You can't compare an ingame item that you don't need at all to a phone, which is something people actively need in first world countries due to how employment and such is set up now.  

You misunderstand the purpose of a lawsuit. It's a deterrent from #*!%ing paying customers over.

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5 minutes ago, Komodo_Saurian said:

You misunderstand the purpose of a lawsuit. It's a deterrent from #*!%ing paying customers over.

The purpose of a lawsuit is to get money out of it.  I wouldn't sue someone for any other reason because any other reason is foolish.  

DE stated that disposition could change, they were just lax in regards to changing dispositions for a long time but that time is over a year ago at this point.  My suggestion is to ignore the popular weapons in terms of rivens, as it just isn't worth dumping tons of plat on something that is very likely getting the nerf hammer like fulmin.  I personally love not dealing with rivens much anymore because there was a time when I was obsessed with finding perfect rolls that took a weapon to absolute peak performance like crit chance, crit damage, multishot, -impact on a sicarus riven for example.  Finding those rivens takes far too long and too much plat because it's a slot machine and always will be since DE seems happy with 3500 kuva for a single roll.  

Edited by (XB1)COA Altair

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

The purpose of a lawsuit is to get money out of it.  I wouldn't sue someone for any other reason because any other reason is foolish.  

DE stated that disposition could change, they were just lax in regards to changing dispositions for a long time but that time is over a year ago at this point.  My suggestion is to ignore the popular weapons in terms of rivens, as it just isn't worth dumping tons of plat on something that is very likely getting the nerf hammer like fulmin.  I personally love not dealing with rivens much anymore because there was a time when I was obsessed with finding perfect rolls that took a weapon to absolute peak performance like crit chance, crit damage, multishot, -impact on a sicarus riven for example.  

The idea of a lawsuit being possible is supposed to dissuade people from doing something that will get them sued.

I got my rivens before they announced they will change them and before disposition was a thing. I still got #*!%ed over.

If you don't like the lawsuit for making a product worse after it was bought angle then how about rigged gambling in a PG-13 game lawsuit?

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2 minutes ago, Komodo_Saurian said:

The idea of a lawsuit being possible is supposed to dissuade people from doing something that will get them sued.

I got my rivens before they announced they will change them and before disposition was a thing. I still got #*!%ed over.

If you don't like the lawsuit for making a product worse after it was bought angle then how about rigged gambling in a PG-13 game lawsuit?

File a lawsuit then.  Just know I'm not joining in a class action lawsuit because I really don't care, they could make disposition for every weapon .5 and I wouldn't care.  Find a lawyer who will take your case and pay them thousands of canadian dollars, us dollars, or euro to make your case against DE and their parent company, Leyou, which is based in China/good luck.  

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16 minutes ago, (XB1)COA Altair said:

File a lawsuit then.  Just know I'm not joining in a class action lawsuit because I really don't care, they could make disposition for every weapon .5 and I wouldn't care.  Find a lawyer who will take your case and pay them thousands of canadian dollars, us dollars, or euro to make your case against DE and their parent company, Leyou, which is based in China/good luck.  

Apple and Samsung weren't sued by individuals.

As a person living in a third world country I can't realistically be expected to pay, let alone win a lawsuit against a company that makes in a month more than I will make in a lifetime. That's why groups that protect customer rights exist.

In any case I'm not personally interested in a lawsuit since even if I win it, it will only make the lives of the devs worse. I want my money back or my stuff back as it was originally and there are no channels to resolve this through.

Edited by Komodo_Saurian

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13 hours ago, Komodo_Saurian said:

You buy/farm/roll a riven expecting certain results. DE changes it and changes are applied retroactively to the stuff that you already bought/farmed/rolled. If it wasn't applied retroactively, then the existing rivens you rolled would stay as they are and only new rivens rolled after the patch would be changed.

Europe sues companies for making real money purchases like phones work worse, Canada not so much apparently.

Ok, so you want balance changes (which is really what riven dispositions are) to only effect newly acquired items. Existing gear gets grandfathered in unchanged. This kind of defeats the purpose of balance changes in the first place. 
 

Also, no one is forced to trade plat for rivens, and DE has been explicit that riven stats will change periodically. There really isn’t any similarity between Riven disposition changes and something like forced obsolescence in phones.

Nice try though. Very creative argument.

 

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6 hours ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

Ok, so you want balance changes (which is really what riven dispositions are) to only effect newly acquired items. Existing gear gets grandfathered in unchanged. This kind of defeats the purpose of balance changes in the first place. 
 

Also, no one is forced to trade plat for rivens, and DE has been explicit that riven stats will change periodically. There really isn’t any similarity between Riven disposition changes and something like forced obsolescence in phones.

Nice try though. Very creative argument.

 

He s right instead: if we go to the trouble of farming for a veiled riven, unveil it, keep it because it's for a gun we like, farm a metric ton of kuva to roll it into usability and then get itnerfed 7 freaking times in a row, well I feel quite justified in being furious!

DE doesn't want plat inflation on riven trading? Needs to change rolling costs and functionality, removing as much RNG as possible, this way, with a bit patience anyone will be able to get the stats he/she/it wants, dropping riven plat values for everyone except those that really don't want to spend time on it, but encouragin trade at lover price points for all rivens.

Let us roll an unveiled riven:

- it gets 3-4 lines of stats. 2 buffs + 1 downside - 3 buffs -3 buffs + 1 downside

- now let us lock in one or more of those lines of stats or remove one line altogether- exactly like a legit slot machine

- now you keep rolling the remaining "free" lines - this way you keep or discard whic buffs and debuffs you feel are useful

How much kuva is spent it's up to the player, but every roll is significant in the chance of providing an improvement instead of resetting progression to 0 - because we keep what we want and discard what we don't need.

DE can get different levers to adjust riven strenght depending on each weapon, by permitting or not certain buffs or limiting their max/minimum value etch:

say a weapon becomes utterly overpowered if it can add more crit chance or damage than what is available trough normal modding - DE can remove those 2 stats from the pool of possible buffs, or make riven buffs exclusive, so you can't equip a riven with those at the same time as the specific mods - the riven is still useful, it can get up to 3 bonuses in a single slot, but it's not overwhelmingly so.

 

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About the disposition balance per weapon, I beg all of you pls stop using aksomati prime (so its dispo will increase 😂)
unknown.png

Fully modded aksomati prime (left) and vanilla (right) with cc cd ms -mag riven
The difference is very minimal but aksomati prime still perform better

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On 2019-12-24 at 7:07 PM, Komodo_Saurian said:

You misunderstand the purpose of a lawsuit. It's a deterrent from #*!%ing paying customers over.

DE did not sell you the Riven, and they explicitly advertise that Rivens are subject to become weaker, which is not on the same league as phone companies making them secretly weaker without your acknowledgement. Good luck in court with that.

Edited by Jarriaga
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On 2019-12-27 at 7:26 PM, Jarriaga said:

DE did not sell you the Riven, and they explicitly advertise that Rivens are subject to become weaker, which is not on the same league as phone companies making them secretly weaker without your acknowledgement. Good luck in court with that.

I got my rivens day 1, before the announcement.

They have applied changes retroactively and announced said changes after I've already invested.

I want my rivens back or my money back. 

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