Arch-Gun Hitscan Nerf is Painful

[Voltage]

17 minutes ago, Danayam said:

lol, just use mod and polarize you weapon, i no have problem with my imperator vandal. perfect damage on any railjack mission

I have a full Forma setting on every Archgun with no exception. Fully modded they still feel pretty weak.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Voltage

[MoonlitDNC]

I realise it's not the fastest or most responsive way to play, but part of what made Archwing sections fun for me was the Experimental Flight mode and now it's gone.   😞

[SpringRocker]

On 2019-12-13 at 3:53 AM, TheGrimCorsair said:

Nah, the change to the guns is fine. They've got plenty of velocity and leading is pretty easy with 'em.

I like the changes too.

On 2019-12-13 at 4:03 AM, DarkRuler2500 said:

I like the Projectile-changes... we are sometimes fighting enemies at 3000m distance... I always felt a bit weird to hit my enemies instantly.

Yeah, I remember when first starting out taking my Itzal out and away, cloaking, and sniping with a cyngas. Just didn't feel right.

[DeadRookie]

I can deal with the loss of hit scan, it sucks but the damage fall off it really getting to me. The fact that by 600 meters which is nothing on the tile set my weapon looses 50% of the damage is just annoying. Then for them not to talk about such a large change in any of the Devstreams or Prime Times.

• Increased min fall off damage from 10% to 50%

Edited December 15, 2019 by DeadRookie

[Skaleek]

9 hours ago, Voltage said:

I have a full Forma setting on every Archgun with no exception. Fully modded they still feel pretty weak.

My satiata imperator with cold damage is still competitive on veil proxima, but... just barely. (The cold is to make the fighters immobile)

[reinforcers]

don't be so surprise. like most people always said, DE doesn't make the game difficult, just annoying. hard to balance new content such railjack to old content, so either make new sponge or nerf the old one

[Fleuria]

Ironic tidbit of trivia:

Mach 7 means travelling about 17 meters during one GPU rendering frame, if the GPU is rendering 144 frames per second.

[DoomFruit]

11 minutes ago, Fleuria said:

Ironic tidbit of trivia:

Mach 7 means travelling about 17 meters during one GPU rendering frame, if the GPU is rendering 144 frames per second.

And lightspeed (let me use my opticor vandal in space just like I can in skywing - after the blanket AW nerfs, it's going to do even more damage) means that the beam will go 2.08 megametres in 1 frame.

[Fleuria]

2 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

And lightspeed (let me use my opticor vandal in space just like I can in skywing - after the blanket AW nerfs, it's going to do even more damage) means that the beam will go 2.08 megametres in 1 frame.

Unless it's Coors Light...

[Bob_Americanu]

It's ridiculous. To hit fighters properly, especially as they scale, I basically have to fly behind them to guarantee all shots hit. I can track pretty well (I play quite a few fps games) and it is really frustrating not being rewarded alot for aiming my archgun well.

[Dalis918]

Going to second the motion on bringing back Experimental Flight. I for one found it much more effective, intuitive and enjoyable, especially when fighting in a 3 dimensional plane. having the camera arbitrarily stop when I reach the maximum up or down view point when tracking and leading an opponent is a significant weakness, especially now with no hit scan weapons. For those that don't like it or can't get to grips, the system was perfectly fine because it was a toggled option. For those that didn't like it, you can just go back to default and stop complaining about hitting yourself.

[Fleuria]

3 hours ago, Dalis918 said:

Going to second the motion on bringing back Experimental Flight. I for one found it much more effective, intuitive and enjoyable, especially when fighting in a 3 dimensional plane. having the camera arbitrarily stop when I reach the maximum up or down view point when tracking and leading an opponent is a significant weakness, especially now with no hit scan weapons. For those that don't like it or can't get to grips, the system was perfectly fine because it was a toggled option. For those that didn't like it, you can just go back to default and stop complaining about hitting yourself.

Oh, nice - I should have tried experimental flight - it sounds like it was exactly what i was looking for in archwing.

[Zentun.]

I agree, i bought imperator vandal at warframe.market for 40pl, i spent potato and formas on it because its the only archgun that i like to use, and now they nerf it for no reason! i loved the fact that imperator vandal was a hitscan and now is just another pain to use, plz DE stop this nonsense!

[Ikusias]

5 hours ago, Dalis918 said:

Going to second the motion on bringing back Experimental Flight. I for one found it much more effective, intuitive and enjoyable, especially when fighting in a 3 dimensional plane. having the camera arbitrarily stop when I reach the maximum up or down view point when tracking and leading an opponent is a significant weakness, especially now with no hit scan weapons. For those that don't like it or can't get to grips, the system was perfectly fine because it was a toggled option. For those that didn't like it, you can just go back to default and stop complaining about hitting yourself.

It was the stupidest change DE introduced, considering that enemies move in 6DoF, same for railjack

And roll back changes on Titania Razorwing mode - its completely unrelated to archwing and feels like S#&$ after you made it in a worse version of wukong's cloud walk noclip mode

[QuinSilver]

Hey DE, explain this changes too plz. Before upd 27 and after.

Corvas: 840 (672, 84, 84) -> 350 (100 imp, 250 heat) (-58.33%)

Cyngas: 200 (66, 66, 68) -> 47.9 (15.8, 15.8, 16.3) (-76.05%)

Dual Decurion: 60 (27, 16.5, 16.5) -> 42 (18.9, 11.6, 11.5) (-30%)

Fluctus: 200 (40, 20, 140) -> 120 (24, 12, 84) (-40%)

Grattler: 175+100 (17.5+10, 140+80, 17.5+10) -> 58+90 (5.8+9, 46.4+72, 5.8+9) (-46.18%)

Imperator: 40 (16, 14, 10) -> 22 (8.8, 7.7, 5.5) (-45%)

Imperator Vandal: 40 (16, 14, 10) -> 22 (8.8, 7.7, 5.5) (-45%)

Larkspur (beam): 90 (10 imp, 80 rad) -> 32 (2 imp, 30 rad) (-64.44%)

Larkspur (bomb): 1750 (200 imp, 250 blast, 1300 rad) -> 420+800 (140+0 imp, 180+400 blast, 100+400 rad) (-30.29%)

Phaedra: 45 (11.25, 29.25, 4.5) -> 35.1 (8.8, 22.8, 3.5) (-22%)

Velocitus: 1800 (1800 mag) -> 580 (580 mag) (-67.78%)

Kuva Ayanga: 87+187 (87+0 imp, 0+187 blast) -> 30+100 (30+0 imp, 0+100 blast) (-52.55%)

Edited December 15, 2019 by Aveltara

[Robolaser]

That archguns nerf is absolutely insane. Slow projectiles, short range, low damage, and mods that still give minute stat increases (and will be more of a chore to get now for those who don't transmute).

As others said, maybe the extreme damage nerf was to incentivize using railjack weapons but...they could have just increased the railjack weapons' damage instead. So, maybe they want more people to, wink wink, buy archguns rivens? Which would probably be a bad idea, unless one like their platinum being thrown down the drain after each disposition update.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Robolaser

[Fleuria]

44 minutes ago, Robolaser said:

That archguns nerf is absolutely insane. Slow projectiles, short range, low damage, and mods that still give minute stat increases (and will be more of a chore to get now for those who don't transmute).

As others said, maybe the extreme damage nerf was to incentivize the use or railjack weapons but...they could have just increased the railjack weapons' damage instead. So, maybe they want more people to, wink wink, buy archguns rivens? Which would probably be a bad idea, unless one like their platinum being thrown down the drain after each disposition update.

Already, you can be one-hit by enemy railjack weapons when in archwing with 1800 health and warding grace up). I'm not sure I'd like to see damage increased.

I imagine this is going to need some tweaks.

[Robolaser]

Il y a 2 heures, Fleuria a dit :

Already, you can be one-hit by enemy railjack weapons when in archwing with 1800 health and warding grace up

Yeah i meant damage from our railjack, not from enemies. They already do enough damage indeed 🙂

Edited December 15, 2019 by Robolaser

[Uhkretor]

On 2019-12-13 at 12:03 PM, DarkRuler2500 said:

I like the Projectile-changes... we are sometimes fighting enemies at 3000m distance... I always felt a bit weird to hit my enemies instantly.

... Just change every ranged hit-scan weapon to projectiles and be done with it. That weird feeling translates to the rest of the game.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Uhkretor
Corrected "late night" mistake.

[QuinSilver]

1 час назад, Uhkretor сказал:

... Just change every ranged weapon to hit-scan weapon to projectiles and be done with it. That weird feeling translates to the rest of the game.

... And return old archguns damage, and SLOW DOWN FREAKIN FIGHTERS. Or speed-up archwings.

[Uhkretor]

1 hour ago, Aveltara said:

... And return old archguns damage, and SLOW DOWN FREAKIN FIGHTERS. Or speed-up archwings.

... Many, many things...

[8faiNt]

On 2019-12-16 at 1:09 AM, Aveltara said:

... And return old archguns damage, and SLOW DOWN FREAKIN FIGHTERS. Or speed-up archwings.

you know like they are a fighter ship, right? they are supposed to be faster than an archwing

[DroopingPuppy]

After have some games in railjack, I found that the nerf is not making sense. My archgun can't hit the enemy even if I close to the enemy, get its back and shoot at it. The projectile is ridiculously slow so it is unacceptable.

 

Can't we expect something usable? Honestly, making it projectile itself would be works, but can't we have much more speed, and the tracer on the bullet to guess the trajectory of the bullets? For now all we can is just hijack the enemy crewship then enjoy its homing gun and durable armor enough to laugh off the enemy fighters.

[DrakeWurrum]

I have to agree that Archguns in Railack content is truly terrible right now. I tried to use Fluctus. I couldn't hit anything. I tried Velocitus - I can hit them, but with how fast everything is moving, the charge mechanic is hard to work with, and it doesn't one-shot even the smallest fighters. I'm now using Imperator Vandal - I can kill enemies with this, but it's a pretty hectic dogfight that requires me to desperately do all I can to stay in range.

I will probably try Larkspur next. Might make the difference.

I'm also dreading ever switching out of my Amesha. I take so much damage if I don't have the 1st ability active that I usually die before I realize I'm hit. Elytron and Itzal and Odonate would all implode just stepping out the airlock, it feels like.

I was hoping for Railjack to fix Archwings, but... objectively, it got worse. They are completely broken now, and worthless outside of traveling from point A to point B. And I'm one of the few people who is 100% fine with the changes to Blink and Itzal.

Edited December 16, 2019 by DrakeWurrum

[tychondus]

On 2019-12-16 at 8:07 AM, 8faiNt said:

you know like they are a fighter ship, right? they are supposed to be faster than an archwing

Fighters are fast because speed is their defense. But when you add bulk they HAVE to slow down. Due to extra mass. But in the university of DE, a fighter can have the same mass as a tank and still run as a fast as a cheetah.....Now that i think about it. I would pay to watch that tank battle. Back o the topic at hand. Whereas you, the warframe, you are soo fragile that anything that even remotely looks at you, will turn you into a puddle. You need to move at the speed of a turtle. If you studied at the University of DE, it all makes sense. I recommend their most popular course. Balance. Its mind blowing.