warframe become official pay 2 win?

[(PSN)Jack_Mahler]

19 hours ago, MorradiX said:

I ailways wonder in these threads....what exactly do you "win" ?  ❔😋

Steve shows up at your door and pats your head

Edited December 14, 2019 by (PS4)Jack_Mahler

[Aggh]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

Sadly the OP is correct. P2W has many versions from directly purchasing power to influencing outcomes. When resources earned in mission can be doubled and used to affect the mission's outcome then that would qualify as paying to win, since you could conceivably lose without the resource being doubled.

Why DE didn't keep crafting outside of the gameplay and have resources used to allow for more consumables per mission is the problem. That way you collect resources in mission that affect how many consumables you have , but the resources do not affect that mission's outcome.

This is a delicate line, but this is one of the first times where a resource booster directly impacts the mission's outcome.

This implies that doubling will actual affect the mission outcome.  Even without a booster you get plenty of resources in mission and if you craft ahead of time in your dry dock, it's pretty hard to run out.  People worrying about this sound like they haven't played the railjack much yet.  Resources are not hard to come by.  Hell, it's even become a more efficient way to farm other resources.  I just got 750 cryotic in a single mission without even intentionally farming for it.  RIP extraction?

Edited December 13, 2019 by Aggh

[MorradiX]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Jack_Mahler said:

Steve shows up at you door and pats you head

*Starts paying* ...  😄

[BDMblue]

Soooooo

 

1st if you HAVE NOT CRAFTED INSIDE THE RAILJACK do not post anything. Go play a mission do it so you know wtf you are talking about in this post.

 

 

why do people puke this nonsense about pay to skip your so clueless on what op is talking about. Did you look at his post? Do you not think something is off? Maybe it’s not a pay to skip issue?

in a Railjack mission to can restock on your equipment using gathered resources you gathered on that mission. You can not use anything from your massive stash. Only things from that mission.

I don’t know if the 2x effects this, if it does it should be changed. And only effect refined resources. 

I mean with refined set up I’m guessing it’s meant to work that way. Could be a bug I don’t see DE missing something this big.

[Eklectus]

1 hour ago, Rivyn said:

People don't seem to know what P2W is. P2W is purchasing something that gives you a leg up over others, who, unless they pay, don't have access to whatever it is that gives you the boost. This, OP, isn't it. You can simply trade for plat, without dropping a dime. As said, you get it faster, sure, but it's not P2W.

And how do you think that plat appears in the game? Someone pays for it.

Now, for the actual point. This does give you a boost over others - people playing RAILJACK missions without a booster. Pustrels in particular have a noticeably lower droprate than Cubics, so having that booster in effect can easily make sure you've still got space-glue while a non-paying team would be free-space debris at this point. Would you still be calling "pay to skip grind, not pay to win!!!" if the double-resource booster affected how much oxygen players got from every Lifesupport drop? Because, until those resources are refined and sent to your inventory, they are nothing more than life support.

  

1 hour ago, MorradiX said:

I ailways wonder in these threads....what exactly do you "win" ?  ❔😋

The mission and all the gear/resources earned from it. Not the first time I've ended a Railjack skirmish by looking at an "Insufficient Pustrels" message while the Catastrophic Breach ticks down to zero.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Eklectus

[MJ12]

6 hours ago, taiiat said:

i guess you're technically right, Gameplay is objectively easier when you get more of the Resources, Resources that determine whether you win or lose the Mission (or how difficult it will be, if not a critical breach).

how significant that will be in the grand scheme remains to be seen, but you're right i suppose, yes.

 

 

now if some of the parrots in here would have stopped to read the Thread before they Posted a message.

The forge has a 3 minute cooldown, and unless you're regularly refining resources you're never going to run out of the resources necessary to make stuff, even without a resource booster.

Right now I think the cooldown is more limiting than resource intake, railjack resources drop relatively regularly and the consumables use very few of them.

[Nighteyezzz]

4 hours ago, (PS4)GEN-Son_17 said:

Not really, if you think about it. For every update, there's usually a package. They just released about five updates in two months. 

Ummm it's not even one complete update, it's just being released in pieces

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Another thread where someone doesn't understand what pay to win means

Edited December 13, 2019 by (XB1)The Neko Otaku

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

7 hours ago, ChronoPhX said:

that's not the issue at hand... the issue is that a mechanic, the booster, which you need to pay for with platinum, a premium currency, is influencing minute to minute gameplay which was not the case up until now

It was always the case, you must've been in Narnia.

The fact you are probably a veteran that had already stockpiled on old resources that made the case less evident is a problem of yours.

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

7 hours ago, taiiat said:

i guess you're technically right, Gameplay is objectively easier when you get more of the Resources, Resources that determine whether you win or lose the Mission (or how difficult it will be, if not a critical breach).

how significant that will be in the grand scheme remains to be seen, but you're right i suppose, yes.

 

 

now if some of the parrots in here would have stopped to read the Thread before they Posted a message.

There's no thread to be read besides the one line on the OP.

Now if some macaws could get definitions right, this thread wouldn't even exist.

These birds!

[Zakual]

7 hours ago, Gasau said:

 

If I understand correctly, the double resource multiplier now directly affects the gameplay. What makes the game a total pay 2 win.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Your understanding of "P2W" is incorrect.

Pay to Win only applies when it is a player vs player environment and has been strictly directed at that since the phrase was coined, some have tried to justify calling something non-PvP orientated paid to win as an excuse to vindicate their own anger/confusion on something and this happens in virtually every community of every service game. 

What Warframe has been at its core really is P4C which is Pay for Convenience a phrase rarely used because nobody usually complains about it. You are not being hindered in any way by not having it. Time taken to complete, make or do is not a hindrance it is merely a reality of actions if you bought something to speed that up then you bought something to speed it up. You're not "winning" in any sense of the word, unless you're Charley sheen I suppose.

[Rivyn]

1 hour ago, Eklectus said:

And how do you think that plat appears in the game? Someone pays for it.

Now, for the actual point. This does give you a boost over others - people playing RAILJACK missions without a booster. Pustrels in particular have a noticeably lower droprate than Cubics, so having that booster in effect can easily make sure you've still got space-glue while a non-paying team would be free-space debris at this point. Would you still be calling "pay to skip grind, not pay to win!!!" if the double-resource booster affected how much oxygen players got from every Lifesupport drop? Because, until those resources are refined and sent to your inventory, they are nothing more than life support.

That doesn't make it P2W, though. You're paying to speed things up, not to get an unfair advantage. Since you can easily earn plat through some grind, most P2W topics are moot. If that ability was taken away? And the only way you could pick up gear was to drop cash? Then, we would have a P2W situation. Currently, we do not. 

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

23 minutes ago, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

Another thread where someone doesn't understand what pay to win means

Not really. We've just become so accepting of paying for advantages that the emphasis is now on winning, instead of the advantage you get from paying. It's similar to how most gamers justify exploits not being the same thing as cheating, even though both provide an unfair advantage to the person using them.

Edited December 13, 2019 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[TennoPain]

No pay to win in WF because its not PVP game 

[Eklectus]

9 minutes ago, Rivyn said:

That doesn't make it P2W, though. You're paying to speed things up, not to get an unfair advantage. Since you can easily earn plat through some grind, most P2W topics are moot. If that ability was taken away? And the only way you could pick up gear was to drop cash? Then, we would have a P2W situation. Currently, we do not. 

Speed what up? Once again, this thread is not about resource-farming to upgrade the Railjack out of mission, it's specifically about crafting ammo for the Omnitool. A team playing with a booster will be able to repair their ship for longer than a team without. It might not be the completely broken P2W that the system is hated for, but it's most certainly the first step towards it. 

Also, just because you don't pay for it, doesn't mean the bonus isn't paid. Every plat purchase is still backed by cold, hard dollars.

[Elkale]

Its amazing how ppl that doesnt really understand the mechanic the OP is referring to, gives quick, pre-digested and pretty copy-paste generic answers related to "stockpiled stuff", "pay to skip", "pay to go faster".

 

the mechanic he is alluding to, as many doesnt even seem to grasp, is that YOU GET MORE REPARING AMMO if you pay for a booster than someone that doesnt.

IN-MISSION. INSIDE THE MATCH ITSELF. ihe is not referring to "you get double the orokin cells when extracting, haha!". he is talking about in-mission, gameplay-direct mechanics affecting the outcome of a mission. the guy that said "boosters give twice the air support" in survival missions got it right. i played, and lost, many railjack missions cause i ran out of juice of the repair tool. if i paid for a booster, i would had won that mission.

in clear terms, since it seems to be a very complex to understand subject:

I DONT PAY FOR BOOSTER=I LOOSE THE MISSION CAUSE I RAN OUT OF REPAIR AMMO.

I PAY FOR BOOSTER=I WIN THE MISSION CAUSE I HAD ENOUGH REPAIR AMMO.

pay to win have nothing to do with being PvE or PvP, btw. and pay-to-skip is a ver grey area. if it takes you 2,750 gameplay hours to get something you can buy with money, is it pay to skip? or pay to win?

 

is what the OP meant clearer now?

[Rakosta_Kai]

5 minutes ago, Eklectus said:

Speed what up? Once again, this thread is not about resource-farming to upgrade the Railjack out of mission, it's specifically about crafting ammo for the Omnitool. A team playing with a booster will be able to repair their ship for longer than a team without. It might not be the completely broken P2W that the system is hated for, but it's most certainly the first step towards it. 

Also, just because you don't pay for it, doesn't mean the bonus isn't paid. Every plat purchase is still backed by cold, hard dollars.

Sounds like needed feedback that should go in the feedback thread as opposed to discussing the merits of whether it is P2W or not.

It's not like Boosters just got released and are more P2W now insomuch as it is a side-effect of too many instances of fire breaking out across the vessel.

The whole "manufacture while underway" thing seems fairly bogus imo. Ships pull from its' current compliment and stores and it's gone once it has all been used.

That said, all DE will do to resolve it is either block players from using resources as they are picked up in missions or block the additional resources from being available until after the mission is completed. 

It seems like the thing that folks are going on about is incidental moreso than it is purposeful. 

[Elkale]

it would be fixed by applying the booster after the mission is done. i dont know if that is the case, because i dont paid for boosters. what irks the not the issue itself, which can be fixed easy,if not fixed already; is the people answering without really understanding what is being talked about.

[(PSN)Jack_Mahler]

Just now, Elkale said:

it would be fixed by applying the booster after the mission is done. i dont know if that is the case, because i dont paid for boosters. what irks the not the issue itself, which can be fixed easy,if not fixed already; is the people answering without really understanding what is being talked about.

That's actually quite clever

[taiiat]

3 hours ago, MJ12 said:

The forge has a 3 minute cooldown, and unless you're regularly refining resources you're never going to run out of the resources necessary to make stuff, even without a resource booster.

Right now I think the cooldown is more limiting than resource intake, railjack resources drop relatively regularly and the consumables use very few of them.

the Cooldown definitely reduces the impact of it, but in an extended battle you certainly could use up all of your..... Omni Gel. that's why i acknowledged the objective advantage but also noted i'm not sure the level of impact in Gameplay even despite.

[Aggh]

2 hours ago, Elkale said:

Its amazing how ppl that doesnt really understand the mechanic the OP is referring to, gives quick, pre-digested and pretty copy-paste generic answers related to "stockpiled stuff", "pay to skip", "pay to go faster".

 

the mechanic he is alluding to, as many doesnt even seem to grasp, is that YOU GET MORE REPARING AMMO if you pay for a booster than someone that doesnt.

IN-MISSION. INSIDE THE MATCH ITSELF. ihe is not referring to "you get double the orokin cells when extracting, haha!". he is talking about in-mission, gameplay-direct mechanics affecting the outcome of a mission. the guy that said "boosters give twice the air support" in survival missions got it right. i played, and lost, many railjack missions cause i ran out of juice of the repair tool. if i paid for a booster, i would had won that mission.

in clear terms, since it seems to be a very complex to understand subject:

I DONT PAY FOR BOOSTER=I LOOSE THE MISSION CAUSE I RAN OUT OF REPAIR AMMO.

I PAY FOR BOOSTER=I WIN THE MISSION CAUSE I HAD ENOUGH REPAIR AMMO.

pay to win have nothing to do with being PvE or PvP, btw. and pay-to-skip is a ver grey area. if it takes you 2,750 gameplay hours to get something you can buy with money, is it pay to skip? or pay to win?

 

is what the OP meant clearer now?

It's almost impossible to run out if you prebuilt in the drydock.  The only time I've ever run out is on severely undergeared railjacks/teams.  No amount of boosters will help you get through that, the cooldowns on the forge will limit you first.

[Anduvriel]

Honestly if you play badly res booster wont save you, if you let the "repairol" to run dry for whatever reason you played bad and its not a lack of resource booster fault. When you play correctly you rarely even use it, if you allow for being shot at by 2+ crewship for longer you are dead and its the forge downtime that will hold you down not those few res the craft requires and i know, i am the engineer on my squad. 

Most of the missions we dont even use up the primary stock that you craft before the mission. Its balanced that way, your ship is more of a carrier than a panzer, if you are shot constantly from close range you play wrong and end up dead. 

The other thing are the repair cost of better weapons that are skipable for 50 plat. The difference between my free time gated weapon and "payed" one is around 7-9 times (got a mkII bp), but the thing is.. Is the mission fun and winnable with my shytty weapon? The answer to it is yes (whole earth done, dont know about laters) . I didnt spend plat yet and i have enough to slam it on everything there is there to slam on and wont even feel it. Didnt feel the need and i am having fun. 

Starter weapons, engines etc start to fall off the further you go, but thats a question of progression and time gated bps that are dojo research. If you want to skip waiting for that 3 days research you can farm exorbitant amount of resources (nasty grind around 10-20 RJ missions prolly, normal missions can be used as well to speed it up, probably some sort of arbi/lich/fissure survis for the 2 farmable ones) and repair those weapons/engines without plat. 

The amounts seem like a pain, so kinda leaning the balance to plat (easier to get 50p than 8000 pustrels and a lot of other shyt) , but i can tell you, soon you will have milions of it as of pretty much any res out there. Its new, the cost seems exorbitant, i guess when ferrite was introduced a cost of 15k ferrite looked the same. 

All in all for now it seems grindy, really well balanced (not to easy, not to hard) and fun for once 

.. and imo fair (not p2win, not p2play, not even pay2enjoy, but it is as always pay2skip aka pay2have all of it now. Seems normal for wf and fair. 

[Siegecraft]

i get the pay pat but what is there to win lol even if u have booster or not  the grind is the same  for the rare material 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Reakacemrz

[Peter]

On 2019-12-13 at 10:09 AM, Gasau said:

 

If I understand correctly, the double resource multiplier now directly affects the gameplay. What makes the game a total pay 2 win.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Warframe has always been p2w, this is nothing.

[Zebiko]

You missed the boat on this one, or just posting topics that gets peoples attention.