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Gasau

warframe become official pay 2 win?

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Pay to win against who or what? How exactly does it matter if you have double the resources to produce Revolite when production is on a cooldown? What even makes the difference when there's nothing competitive about Railjack content? You're just fishing for drama.

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19 minutes ago, Mints said:

Pay to win against who or what? How exactly does it matter if you have double the resources to produce Revolite when production is on a cooldown? What even makes the difference when there's nothing competitive about Railjack content? You're just fishing for drama.

You can close your eyes but not the eyes of others.

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In which way is this even close to pay to win?? you cant even buy the resources.

I managed to upgrade them to the fullest already

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5 minutes ago, Peter said:

You can close your eyes but not the eyes of others.

Alright Captain Sophism thanks for that entirely pointless statement.

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On 2019-12-13 at 1:43 PM, Gasau said:

refill the revolite for the omni tool.

omni tool need to repair the ship

 

Yes you need it to win the game actually, or you ship gonna die and you fail the mission.

 

This is purest 100% pay 2 win.

but how is this an issue when you're flooded with these resources the moment you start a railjack mission?

i don't have any boosters and my UI is constantly going nuts with all these resources i'm somehow picking up

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On 2019-12-13 at 1:09 PM, Gasau said:

O0bNlj0.jpg

 

If I understand correctly, the double resource multiplier now directly affects the gameplay. What makes the game a total pay 2 win.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Yes, you are wrong, the resources you pick up that goes into the foundry are not affected by resource booster, as those do not go to your inventory unless the foundry is full.

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Pay-to-skip as the game has always been. Over who exactly do I win if I pay?

The drones are no different than buying weapons. They are there instead of having the cannons/shields/engines etc. available through the market. As for materials, they go to the forge. So if the boosters actually impacted the yield then one booster would cover everyone, which they dont.

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There are certain barriers that you can jump pass/avoid with real money vs platinum. Example. I was MR 7 when the Tigris prime (MR lock of 13) was released in a PA. I totally skipped over the MR lock by buying that pack. That's a huge skip, but it's not like I won or anything. I still had to give up 80 bucks. And from the normal warframe market you cannot purchase a regular weapon if you are not the required MR for it unless it is through a PA pack with real money. So compared to other MR 12s and under I was ahead of them by having a weapon they could not have unless purchase through PA or until they are mr 13+, but I wasn't really winning any contests, I just had a really strong shotgun they did not have, that could 1 or 2 shot some bosses. Plenty of other strong weapons out there.

Edited by (XB1)AMONGTHEWEAK

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What DE fails the most to show new players at the beginning of their time playing, is that new players don't need to buy platinum with real money to get what they want from the market but that if they farm areas of the game they can easily get platinum from other players without having to spend a dime right off the bat. I guess it is our responsibility as the player to tell new players that. 

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On 2019-12-13 at 3:09 PM, Gasau said:

O0bNlj0.jpg

 

If I understand correctly, the double resource multiplier now directly affects the gameplay. What makes the game a total pay 2 win.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Or just sell your prime junk - buy rush repair drone - and forget the grind completely. Its not pay to win and never will be as long as you can gain platinum just by selling your stuff you obtain from playing the game.

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On 2019-12-13 at 7:13 AM, mrbubblepants said:

Its always affected gameplay. There is no pay to win. Pay for faster yes l, but entirely achievable without. I played for 5 years without spending a dime. And considering how easily you can trade plat for prime parts you never have to spend money.

To play devils advocate here:

Pay to win is defined by gaining an advantage in the broadest of terms.  Warframe is entirely a game based on efficiency.  So paying to skip ahead means you can be potentially efficient sooner.  So technically it can be considered pay to win.  And while platinum is something you can trade for in game, to say that you can grind/earn platinum via in game methods is a bit disingenuous.

Because it's a tradeable currency it is better than some other examples that involve premium currency.  But it's still not directly earnable via in game.  If you want an example of this look at Fortnite's v-bucks and crash team racing's wumpa coins.  Both are buyable with money.  But both can be grinded in game without needing to interact with another player directly.  This isn't to say Warframe's current model is wholistically awful.

But in my opinion it's still pretty predatory.  Especially with how the newer systems recently added (liches and railjack) offer up bundles to shortcut massive amounts of time on non fully fleshed out systems.  I understand past content drops has had it's own bundles.  But those pieces of content do not have such a big influence on the game's systems and are more like extra items.  DE is a company and they have a right to make money.  But it's also completely fair to criticize their decisions.  I personally am not alright with them adding railjack/requiem bundles on features that are very clearly not finished.  If they wanted to hand me some set in stone kuva weapons that have worse stats than a perfect chased kuva weapon or a starting railjack that is clearly not as good as a fully kitted out railjack that's fine.  It gives me a taste of the content.  That's not what they're doing though.

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Pay to Win is not the same as Pay to Skip

Get that thru your head already. I've spent over 1.5k hours in this game, and i have more Prime parts to sell that i can imagine, so if i were to spent any money for plats, it's out of plain slacking-off on my sales and thus i prefer give some earnings to DE.

Plus, a real P2W feature is when you get something that gameplay wise other non-paying players can't get, in which case it would be a weapon, a warframe, archwing and such; getting more resources is not pay to win, sometimes people got hella lot of work to do, and thus prefer save some time and get some extra resources or just skip certain things that would be a chore or unnecesary grind, some of them got both time and money to waste and just straight up use it.

And what the hell is wrong with that?! i'm so happy with me having to grind relics and Railjack since i got the hang of it, and i don't give a damn about any content creator or anyone else having 3x times better Railjack than me, or getting Ivara Prime from Access.

 

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This expendables thing has become trouble when devs "fixed" expendables replenish when you go to dojo. Now you have to craft them after every mission, spending resourses and geting even slower in acheving new MK levels.

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On 2019-12-14 at 9:00 AM, Mints said:

Pay to win against who or what? How exactly does it matter if you have double the resources to produce Revolite when production is on a cooldown? What even makes the difference when there's nothing competitive about Railjack content? You're just fishing for drama.

Also, does the resource booster affect accumulation in-game, or only the rewards when you refine?

If booster is only applied after refine, no problem.  If it's pre-refine, I can understand the OP's complaint to some degree.  But as you point out, the production is on a cooldown and that's usually the limiting factor.  (Although I've been on one mission where our supplies to create more revolite did run out.  Someone picked a mission way above the ship/squad's capabilities in nav so fighters took forever to whittle down.)

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On 2019-12-13 at 1:38 PM, taiiat said:

i guess you're technically right, Gameplay is objectively easier when you get more of the Resources, Resources that determine whether you win or lose the Mission (or how difficult it will be, if not a critical breach).

how significant that will be in the grand scheme remains to be seen, but you're right i suppose, yes.

You could make this same argument for the same Warframe that has existed for years. Gameplay is easier when you get more credits/endo/resources. Credits/endo/resources determine what gear you can bring into a mission. That gear will determine whether you win or lsoe the mission (or how difficult it will be, if not a critical breach).

 

Yeah, so Railjack payloads aren't new in that respect. Do some easier missions to get the resources to fill up your payloads before tackling a harder mission - the same way you'd go about this obstacle in any other part of the game.

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Pay 2 Win is only a thing if it's in a PvP scenario.

in PvE you don't really win anything over others who don't pay. you just save time doing so.

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On 2019-12-13 at 7:15 AM, ChronoPhX said:

that's not the issue at hand... the issue is that a mechanic, the booster, which you need to pay for with platinum, a premium currency, is influencing minute to minute gameplay which was not the case up until now

inb4 "something something DE is poor indie company with little hope for survival without plat somethnig something entitled something" at this point is clear the "win" part is not about defeating other players directly but reaching the current "end game" faster.

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8 hours ago, HintOfMalice said:

You could make this same argument for the same Warframe that has existed for years. Gameplay is easier when you get more credits/endo/resources. Credits/endo/resources determine what gear you can bring into a mission. That gear will determine whether you win or lsoe the mission (or how difficult it will be, if not a critical breach).

Credits and Alloy Plate doesn't actually affect you inside the Mission, it's not the same.

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To be fair you could always sell a void hole for plat and buy a couple months of double if that's your fancy.

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On 2019-12-13 at 8:15 AM, Vesiga said:

I think the PTW thing is the 50p repair items and the Diracs.

50p = skip all materials and get your new railjack weapon/ship part built. Meaning you don't have to farm 2.5k pustrels and a few thousand other materials. 

Diracs upgrade your ships mods AND the grid

This is exactly the ptw i'm worried about. I hate to say i've thought about getting a repair drone myself every single time I see the titanium cost and how many hours i'm putting into this content in a day (i'm on winter break so nothing else to do).

I am stubbornly refusing, on principle, until they do an economy update but i hate that it has been more enticing than ever before...

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35 minutes ago, taiiat said:

Credits and Alloy Plate doesn't actually affect you inside the Mission, it's not the same.

They affect your ability to prepare for the mission; just like in Railjack. And, of course are affected by boosters, which you pay for. So, putting money into the game improves your ability to prepare for a mission, directly affecting your chance of success and the difficulty of the mission. The fact that you can spend resources mid-mission in Railjack is a minor mechanical change and doesn't make the game any more Pay To Win than ever before.

 

My point being, that it isn't Pay To Win at all, since it can all be done without spending any money.

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3 minutes ago, HintOfMalice said:

So, putting money into the game improves your ability to prepare for a mission, directly affecting your chance of success and the difficulty of the mission.

The fact that you can spend resources mid-mission in Railjack is a minor mechanical change and doesn't make the game any more Pay To Win than ever before.

that hardly affects how easy a Mission in the future will be.

it's considerably different from being able to affect limitations of Mission Critical Objectives. it's not minor changes, those Resources are directly tied to Mission Critical Objectives.

 

your point being, to copy paste something you found in someone else's Dictionary and arguing over the least important aspect, rather than the actual happenings.

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5 minutes ago, taiiat said:

that hardly affects how easy a Mission in the future will be.

That's exactly what it does do.

6 minutes ago, taiiat said:

it's considerably different from being able to affect limitations of Mission Critical Objectives. it's not minor changes, those Resources are directly tied to Mission Critical Objectives

It's really not. At it's core, the amount of resources you gain determines how effective you are. Looks like good ole Warframe to me.

7 minutes ago, taiiat said:

your point being, to copy paste something you found in someone else's Dictionary and arguing over the least important aspect, rather than the actual happenings.

No, my point being that concocting arbitrary barriers between yourself and rationale isn't a substitute for having a good argument.

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What qualifies as winning? Who are you competing with in order to beat them? How can it be pay to win, when nothing you purchase gives you an advantage in beating another user? It's PVE...... Not PVP. If I trade for plat and buy a booster, what am I winning?

Getting double anything doesn't give you any advantage. Just skips grind. And that isn't pay to win, it's impatience at it's worst.

What if you buy a booster, but I out farm you, do I win? If so, what was my prize? Seriously, what did I win?

You can't win back time you choose to spend. You spend that time the exact same way you would with or without boosters. 

Crying about boosters is about as petty as it gets, you get them in log in rewards. Is that pay to win?

This "change my mind" BS sure does make you awfully selfish. You think it's pay to win and you want people to dance for your ego trying to prove to a nobody that they're wrong. 

 

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